ImageImageImage

ORL @ DET 7:30 PM

Moderators: dVs33, Cowology, theBigLip, Snakebites

DetroitSho
Head Coach
Posts: 6,857
And1: 2,460
Joined: Sep 28, 2012

Re: ORL @ DET 7:30 PM 

Post#141 » by DetroitSho » Wed Jan 29, 2014 5:50 am

MrBigShot wrote:He deserves to be blamed. Signing BG and extending Rip even though they both play the same position? That didn't work out. Signing Smith even though we have Monroe/Drummond? That clearly hasn't worked out.

Pet peeve of mine. It seriously irritates me when people get the succession of these moves wrong. Your wording suggests he extended Rip after he signed Ben Gordon, when that is incorrect. He signed Ben Gordon, then traded Rip but Karen nixed the deal. Now you can complain about signing Ben Gordon at all, with or without Rip, but jeez let's not rewrite history.

Sent from my SCH-I545 using RealGM Forums mobile app
Q00
Banned User
Posts: 6,374
And1: 2,604
Joined: Aug 12, 2010
   

Re: ORL @ DET 7:30 PM 

Post#142 » by Q00 » Wed Jan 29, 2014 5:53 am

Pistons game vs Atlanta tomorrow likely postponed. Pistons couldn't get there tonight and will try again tomorrow, but now Atlanta governer ordering no driving until Thursday.

How does the NBA work postponed games? Do they reschedule the following night, or just void that game for now and play it again later in the year?
User avatar
PrivateZer0
Sophomore
Posts: 232
And1: 286
Joined: Aug 07, 2013
       

Re: ORL @ DET 7:30 PM 

Post#143 » by PrivateZer0 » Wed Jan 29, 2014 7:53 am

I got to go to the game tonight with my girlfriend tonight for 10 bucks a ticket, right next to the Pistons tunnel. Cheap Tickets, got Aaron Afflalo and Gigi's (haha) autographs. The best perk of being a Pistons fan is that the tickets are so cheap on stub hub, especially on cold days like today :lol: .
User avatar
Finn McCool
Senior
Posts: 612
And1: 270
Joined: Jan 21, 2014

Re: ORL @ DET 7:30 PM 

Post#144 » by Finn McCool » Wed Jan 29, 2014 10:19 am

Hotmayo wrote:Trading for Ben Wallace, Sheed, rip, Corliss, cliff Robinson, Jennings, and josh have been great trades

Trading Afflalo for nothing is the one people want to remember and ridicule him for. And rightly so, but to say his trades have been bad is being shortsighted



We didn't trade for Josh Smith. I thought the trade of BG with a 1st rounder was a poor decision, but it's not my money.... 'cause I would have amnestied him the moment they gave the amnesty clause to me.
ImHeisenberg
Head Coach
Posts: 6,465
And1: 2,323
Joined: Apr 01, 2013
 

Re: ORL @ DET 7:30 PM 

Post#145 » by ImHeisenberg » Wed Jan 29, 2014 3:24 pm

Q00 wrote:Pistons game vs Atlanta tomorrow likely postponed. Pistons couldn't get there tonight and will try again tomorrow, but now Atlanta governer ordering no driving until Thursday.

How does the NBA work postponed games? Do they reschedule the following night, or just void that game for now and play it again later in the year?

Yes- they would reschedule the game for a later date when both teams have an open spot on a calendar, likely turning into a back-to-back game for both teams.
Clarity
Banned User
Posts: 5,610
And1: 843
Joined: Jun 14, 2012
   

Re: ORL @ DET 7:30 PM 

Post#146 » by Clarity » Wed Jan 29, 2014 5:29 pm

Hotmayo wrote:
MotownMadness wrote:What ru you guys talking about? Dumars is a absolute idiot.


His coaching hires have been difficult to understand, but his drafting and trades have been impressive.


Hotmayo wrote:Trading for Ben Wallace, Sheed, rip, Corliss, cliff Robinson, Jennings, and josh have been great trades

Trading Afflalo for nothing is the one people want to remember and ridicule him for. And rightly so, but to say his trades have been bad is being shortsighted


wat
E-Z
Pro Prospect
Posts: 763
And1: 213
Joined: May 04, 2013

Re: ORL @ DET 7:30 PM 

Post#147 » by E-Z » Wed Jan 29, 2014 5:37 pm

Even when Detroit wins, it feels like a loss.

To participate in the side-note: Dumars isn't so much of an idiot as his old-fashioned ways of analyzing the sport are irrelevant now. DBB hit the nail on the head, suggesting that the league has advanced to using advanced analytics to best assess talent and team needs.

Analytics suggested that this team would struggle offensively to say the least. This implosion on defense is something else entirely. That's probably bad coaching.
Q00
Banned User
Posts: 6,374
And1: 2,604
Joined: Aug 12, 2010
   

Re: ORL @ DET 7:30 PM 

Post#148 » by Q00 » Wed Jan 29, 2014 6:40 pm

E-Z wrote:To participate in the side-note: Dumars isn't so much of an idiot as his old-fashioned ways of analyzing the sport are irrelevant now. DBB hit the nail on the head, suggesting that the league has advanced to using advanced analytics to best assess talent and team needs.

Analytics suggested that this team would struggle offensively to say the least. This implosion on defense is something else entirely. That's probably bad coaching.


I saw this on another site and made me laugh. This is what I picture when reading these posts that blame/credit all problems/success in basketball on analytics.

Image
Invictus88
Assistant Coach
Posts: 3,957
And1: 2,230
Joined: Jun 25, 2013

Re: ORL @ DET 7:30 PM 

Post#149 » by Invictus88 » Wed Jan 29, 2014 7:52 pm

Forget about advanced stats.

You didn't need advanced stats to see that Josh Smith was a poor fit for the Pistons.
That his addition didn't fit our need for the SF role and therefore would consequently stunt the growth of our other big men.

You didn't need advanced stats to see that:
- Brandon Jennings would shoot a ton of shots or has poor perimeter defense.
- Ben Gordon was very small for a shooting guard and again was a volume shooter.
- CV had motivation issues on his prior teams.
- you were bidding against yourself for Rip Hamilton.
- Jason Maxiell is a stopgap solution for bad teams in the post

The problem isn't that JoeD is old-fashioned and doesn't pay service to advanced stats. The problem is that JoeD didn't actually think at all and went on pure instinct alone.
E-Z
Pro Prospect
Posts: 763
And1: 213
Joined: May 04, 2013

Re: ORL @ DET 7:30 PM 

Post#150 » by E-Z » Wed Jan 29, 2014 8:24 pm

Analytics is why the Rockets have been moderately healthy before, during, and after Yao's tenure. Even then, I'm not sure to what extent they're even used. The fact remains that the Rockets aren't the only franchise behind it. The league has more tools and resources than ever, and to shun them for an old fashioned approach is frustrating to say the least.

San Antonio has some sort of proprietary system within their front office as well. Miami uses analytics as a conversation piece. They're highlighting trends to improve themselves and their game. Analytics is a great tool to boost awareness of whatever strengths or weaknesses players or teams have. It definitely isn't a end all, be all, solution by any stretch. I just the Pistons would heed this sort of information in some sort of useful capacity.
MotownMadness
RealGM
Posts: 38,753
And1: 22,818
Joined: Oct 08, 2013
   

Re: ORL @ DET 7:30 PM 

Post#151 » by MotownMadness » Wed Jan 29, 2014 8:41 pm

Is the Atlanta game cancelled?
joseph mamah
Starter
Posts: 2,073
And1: 180
Joined: Jul 06, 2012

Re: ORL @ DET 7:30 PM 

Post#152 » by joseph mamah » Wed Jan 29, 2014 8:49 pm

MotownMadness wrote:Is the Atlanta game cancelled?


yeah
Q00
Banned User
Posts: 6,374
And1: 2,604
Joined: Aug 12, 2010
   

Re: ORL @ DET 7:30 PM 

Post#153 » by Q00 » Wed Jan 29, 2014 8:55 pm

Invictus88 wrote:Forget about advanced stats.

You didn't need advanced stats to see that Josh Smith was a poor fit for the Pistons.
That his addition didn't fit our need for the SF role and therefore would consequently stunt the growth of our other big men.

You didn't need advanced stats to see that:
- Brandon Jennings would shoot a ton of shots or has poor perimeter defense.
- Ben Gordon was very small for a shooting guard and again was a volume shooter.
- CV had motivation issues on his prior teams.
- you were bidding against yourself for Rip Hamilton.
- Jason Maxiell is a stopgap solution for bad teams in the post

The problem isn't that JoeD is old-fashioned and doesn't pay service to advanced stats. The problem is that JoeD didn't actually think at all and went on pure instinct alone.


Its already been said a million times but you don't know what Joe's plan was when signing Smith. If it was with the intention of not keeping Monroe all along, then you can't say it was a bad decision for him to hedge his bets on Monroe.

As for Jennings, the fact that he only signed him to a 3 yr deal should be enough evidence to tell you that he didn't see him as a longterm solution at PG. Rather just a talent upgrade from Knight that can fetch more in trades going forward.

Maxiell/Rip/BG/CV were poor decisions. Although who knows what actually went on with those signings. There's been reports that Joe only signed BG because he had a deal in place to trade Rip that our ownership vetoed. Whatever the case those deals didn't work out, but ultimately you judge a GM on wins/losses not how many successful individual deals he made. So if Joe gets it turned around here by the end of the year, maybe he stays, and if not then he probably doesn't. No real sense rehashing all of his moves. In the end its either going to come down to whether he wins or losses.
Invictus88
Assistant Coach
Posts: 3,957
And1: 2,230
Joined: Jun 25, 2013

Re: ORL @ DET 7:30 PM 

Post#154 » by Invictus88 » Thu Jan 30, 2014 12:00 am

Q00 wrote:
Invictus88 wrote:Forget about advanced stats.

You didn't need advanced stats to see that Josh Smith was a poor fit for the Pistons.
That his addition didn't fit our need for the SF role and therefore would consequently stunt the growth of our other big men.

You didn't need advanced stats to see that:
- Brandon Jennings would shoot a ton of shots or has poor perimeter defense.
- Ben Gordon was very small for a shooting guard and again was a volume shooter.
- CV had motivation issues on his prior teams.
- you were bidding against yourself for Rip Hamilton.
- Jason Maxiell is a stopgap solution for bad teams in the post

The problem isn't that JoeD is old-fashioned and doesn't pay service to advanced stats. The problem is that JoeD didn't actually think at all and went on pure instinct alone.


Its already been said a million times but you don't know what Joe's plan was when signing Smith. If it was with the intention of not keeping Monroe all along, then you can't say it was a bad decision for him to hedge his bets on Monroe.

As for Jennings, the fact that he only signed him to a 3 yr deal should be enough evidence to tell you that he didn't see him as a longterm solution at PG. Rather just a talent upgrade from Knight that can fetch more in trades going forward.

Maxiell/Rip/BG/CV were poor decisions. Although who knows what actually went on with those signings. There's been reports that Joe only signed BG because he had a deal in place to trade Rip that our ownership vetoed. Whatever the case those deals didn't work out, but ultimately you judge a GM on wins/losses not how many successful individual deals he made. So if Joe gets it turned around here by the end of the year, maybe he stays, and if not then he probably doesn't. No real sense rehashing all of his moves. In the end its either going to come down to whether he wins or losses.


Even if the Smith signing was somehow with the intention of moving Monroe the second part obviously didn't happen. So it was poor judgment of Dumars on that front.

We'll continue to have differences of opinion on Monroe's effectiveness and thus whether or not Dumars knowingly added a piece in Smith that was completely unnecessary.

The results of the signings regardless of what did or did not happen behind closed doors ultimately are the GM's responsibility. In the case of BG, if it played out like you mention then that just means Dumars wasn't in sync enough with his employers and thus made a bad decision - still his fault.

Circling back I was responding to a comment regarding lack of advanced stat-watching being the reason Dumars made bad personnel moves. I still believe this claim to be false.
Invictus88
Assistant Coach
Posts: 3,957
And1: 2,230
Joined: Jun 25, 2013

Re: ORL @ DET 7:30 PM 

Post#155 » by Invictus88 » Thu Jan 30, 2014 12:03 am

E-Z wrote:Analytics is why the Rockets have been moderately healthy before, during, and after Yao's tenure. Even then, I'm not sure to what extent they're even used. The fact remains that the Rockets aren't the only franchise behind it. The league has more tools and resources than ever, and to shun them for an old fashioned approach is frustrating to say the least.

San Antonio has some sort of proprietary system within their front office as well. Miami uses analytics as a conversation piece. They're highlighting trends to improve themselves and their game. Analytics is a great tool to boost awareness of whatever strengths or weaknesses players or teams have. It definitely isn't a end all, be all, solution by any stretch. I just the Pistons would heed this sort of information in some sort of useful capacity.


That's fair and I wish the Pistons' front office would use them as well. But I think the front office personnel decision-making problems go far beyond lack of advanced stats :)

Return to Detroit Pistons