Rondo Trade Rumors & Ideas (update pg 8)

[sam_I_am]

I'm not saying Rondo should be traded, and I don't think he will, but let's cut the nonsense. If Rondo doesn't regain his ELITE quickness, agility and leaping ability his game will suffer in a major way. The only way he could overcome the loss would be to start knocking down triples and free throws.

I get that the guy is smart and you don't have to be an athletic freak to find the open man, but if he can't defend in space and he can't consistently get to the rim while STILL not being able to shoot the ball with consistency, his game just isn't that impressive and you can forget about him being top 5 PG status.

But, realistically I think he can regain most of his old form even if he's a bit more selective about when he uses that athleticism.

I agree with you humblebum on this point. What made Rondo truly special was the way he agitated from one end of the court to another. To have the freak athleticism to pick off an inbounds play and be at the rim with one step like he did his first preseason in Boston was what made Rondo elite.

I think if he loses a step it is nice to know that he can still be the PG on a successful team but for him to be a star - IMHO - he needs to run past people because he doesn't have the leap, the size or the shooting ability to dominate otherwise.

[ryaningf]

I'm not saying Rondo should be traded, and I don't think he will, but let's cut the nonsense. If Rondo doesn't regain his ELITE quickness, agility and leaping ability his game will suffer in a major way. The only way he could overcome the loss would be to start knocking down triples and free throws.

I get that the guy is smart and you don't have to be an athletic freak to find the open man, but if he can't defend in space and he can't consistently get to the rim while STILL not being able to shoot the ball with consistency, his game just isn't that impressive and you can forget about him being top 5 PG status.

But, realistically I think he can regain most of his old form even if he's a bit more selective about when he uses that athleticism.

I think we're on the same page regarding how he's going to come back; i.e., regaining most of his athleticism but being more selective about when and how he uses it. That's something you just do as you get older anyway, and even at his youngest and most athletic Rondo's always been selective about hitting that top gear.

But I'm still not sure people really understand how Rondo uses his athleticism. He's like a pitcher blessed with a 95 mph heater but who uses his changeup as his out-pitch. Rondo's the same way--he's got the heater, but it's not his outpitch. Rondo gets to the rim, but it's not because he's racing balls-to-the-wall from end line to rim and beating guys with his great speed, athleticism and jumping ability like Rose or Westbrook. Rondo gets to the rim as an afterthought, as the countermove to his outpitch which is passing the ball. He'll wait till you turn your head or get fooled by one of his dribble moves or behind the back pass fakes and then layup it up when you don't expect it.

This is a fundamental difference from the way most NBA players play--most guys have games predicated on athleticism, and everything they do on the court is structured around being one of the best athletes on the court. When that gets taken away, they have a hell of a time adjusting their game and remaining effective. For Rondo, since his game is predicated on passing first, the transition is much much easier, just like the changeup pitcher who remains effective long after the top speed on his fastball is diminished.

This isn't to say that Rondo doesn't use his athleticism to beat guys every night--he does. It's just the recognition that it's but one arrow in his quiver and that his game is predicated not on athleticism but on changing speeds and as such his game is set to age much more gracefully than his more athletically-oriented peers.

[sam_I_am]

I'm not saying Rondo should be traded, and I don't think he will, but let's cut the nonsense. If Rondo doesn't regain his ELITE quickness, agility and leaping ability his game will suffer in a major way. The only way he could overcome the loss would be to start knocking down triples and free throws.

I get that the guy is smart and you don't have to be an athletic freak to find the open man, but if he can't defend in space and he can't consistently get to the rim while STILL not being able to shoot the ball with consistency, his game just isn't that impressive and you can forget about him being top 5 PG status.

But, realistically I think he can regain most of his old form even if he's a bit more selective about when he uses that athleticism.

I think we're on the same page regarding how he's going to come back; i.e., regaining most of his athleticism but being more selective about when and how he uses it. That's something you just do as you get older anyway, and even at his youngest and most athletic Rondo's always been selective about hitting that top gear.

But I'm still not sure people really understand how Rondo uses his athleticism. He's like a pitcher blessed with a 95 mph heater but who uses his changeup as his out-pitch. Rondo's the same way--he's got the heater, but it's not his outpitch. Rondo gets to the rim, but it's not because he's racing balls-to-the-wall from end line to rim and beating guys with his great speed, athleticism and jumping ability like Rose or Westbrook. Rondo gets to the rim as an afterthought, as the countermove to his outpitch which is passing the ball. He'll wait till you turn your head or get fooled by one of his dribble moves or behind the back pass fakes and then layup it up when you don't expect it.

This is a fundamental difference from the way most NBA players play--most guys have games predicated on athleticism, and everything they do on the court is structured around being one of the best athletes on the court. When that gets taken away, they have a hell of a time adjusting their game and remaining effective. For Rondo, since his game is predicated on passing first, the transition is much much easier, just like the changeup pitcher who remains effective long after the top speed on his fastball is diminished.

This isn't to say that Rondo doesn't use his athleticism to beat guys every night--he does. It's just the recognition that it's but one arrow in his quiver and that his game is predicated not on athleticism but on changing speeds and as such his game is set to age much more gracefully than his more athletically-oriented peers.

I think you make awesome points. I do believe Rondo needs the 95 mph fastball for the change up to work though. Watching him now, you can see the elite vision and passing. The ball handling is still there. The rebounding is still elite. Great shooters are going to get great looks from him. Great leaders are going to get easy dunks. Bradley is going to get layups with his extraordinary back cuts.

But we have yet to see the 1 on 5 fast break layup or the ball hawking that made him such a pest. He used to avoid attacking the rim late in games perhaps due to poor free throw shooting. But now he isn't attacking rim at all. I am not overly concerned yet.... He isn't even clear for full time minutes yet....

[ryaningf]

But now he isn't attacking rim at all. I am not overly concerned yet.... He isn't even clear for full time minutes yet....

If I were Rondo and coming back from not playing in a year and wearing a big brace and generally trying to get a feel for a new team and a new role...there'd be a certain class of moves and levels of reckless abandon that I'd foresake this season just because what does it even matter at this point? The season's toast and it's all about being healthy at the start of 2014-2015. It's been pretty well established that it takes a 1.5 years to fully recover and getting to that 1.5 mark should be the goal, not seeing if you can do every move you ever did before the injury, all the while endangering your chances of making it to the 1.5 year mark without further reinjury.

Where Rose went wrong in his comeback was trying to be the same player he was from day 1 of his return. Great goal, just not realistic at all. Of course, that kind of thinking is what got Rose the MVP at 22. For better or worse, Rondo's a different cat. I expect him to ease his way into his return. No need to sprint 80 feet and go full speed into a layup attempt. No need to attack the rim at all costs. Not even that much need to sellout 100% on defense right now. Stay on the perimeter, jack jumpers, work on the parts of your game that need work while also playing it safe in terms of sacrificing your body. Sure, in lesser players bad habits might creep in, but with Rondo he's always had the ability to find another gear when and if he needs it and given the circumstances of his recovery and this team's crappiness I expect him to reach for that gear in 5 minute spurts and not for entire games. I also expect him to downshift it much more often and be much more perimeter oriented this season, not only because it'll serve his body well but because it's time well spent as he grows into a bigger scoring/shooting role.

All that to say, I don't expect him to attack the rim much this year, just isn't much upside in it right now. He has nothing to prove this season; it's the start of next season where he'll truly have something to prove, as will his teammates.

[humblebum]

All I'm saying is that if Rondo can't get back to where he was physically, or at least close to it, he loses a lot of luster on his game. He can play around the perimeter and dish the ball (while trying to take more shots and score more) but if he doesn't have that elite agility and quickness he simply can't be that MVP caliber we've seen in spurts in the past (without dramatically improved results shooting the ball from 3 and the FT line).

[GuyClinch]

Rondo wasn't quite the player he was thought to be on this board anyway. Now with his injury we are going to have to listen for a few years about how he isn't fully healed yet. Rondo was a good point guard who had some great games in the playoffs. That's it. He had 18 PER in the regular season when he was healthy. So we know he will play better then he is now - eventually.

But an 11 ppg/6 rebounds/10 assists guy is not a superstar in this league. People took some stellar playoff performances (which were helped by some very poor defensive planning on the part of the opposition) and have built up Rondo into a superstar - a better then Paul Pierce in his prime dominator.. The big difference is with Pierce in his prime the opposition was entirely worried about him - and still could not stop him. Rondo never demands that kind of defensive attention.

But he has never been that "guy" - he doesn't want to be that guy. I feel a bit bad for him actually - same with Jeff Green. These guys have way to much expectations placed on them. You don't automatically have a another top tier talent on your roster after you trade your former blue chip guys away. The world doesn't work that way..

I like the Patriots backup QB. I have my doubts that he is the next Tom Brady though. We have some young fans who are on this board and evidently didn't live through the Celtics dark times. Its TOUGH to win in the NBA. It's very rare for a cold weather team in a smaller market to win consistently. Players don't want to come here and you don't always win in the draft.

This is just one of those down years - and when we win again its likely that none of the players on this roster will be here.

[exculpatory]

Rondo wasn't quite the player he was thought to be on this board anyway. Now with his injury we are going to have to listen for a few years about how he isn't fully healed yet.

Rondo was a good point guard who had some great games in the playoffs. That's it.

He had an 18 PER in the regular season when he was healthy. So we know he will play better than he is now - eventually.

But an 11 ppg/6 rebounds/10 assists guy is not a superstar in this league. People took some stellar playoff performances (which were helped by some very poor defensive planning on the part of the opposition) and have built up Rondo into a superstar - a better then Paul Pierce in his prime dominator. The big difference is with Pierce in his prime the opposition was entirely worried about him - and still could not stop him. Rondo never demands that kind of defensive attention.

But he has never been that "guy" - he doesn't want to be that guy. I feel a bit bad for him actually - same with Jeff Green. These guys have way too much expectations placed on them. You don't automatically have a another top tier talent on your roster after you trade your former blue chip guys away. The world doesn't work that way.

I like the Patriots backup QB. I have my doubts that he is the next Tom Brady though. We have some young fans who are on this board and evidently didn't live through the Celtics dark times. It's TOUGH to win in the NBA. It's very rare for a cold weather team in a smaller market to win consistently. Players don't want to come here and you don't always win in the draft.

This is just one of those down years - and when we win again it's likely that none of the players on this roster will be here.

Brutal truth about Rondo & beautifully written as usual, Pete.

[15th overall]

Not surprising, but:

However, a source with direct knowledge of the situation has informed Basketball Insiders that the Celtics have demonstrated little activity as it relates to potentially moving Rondo at the deadline. The team has stopped short of giving Rondo a no-trade guarantee, but has made it clear it would take a substantial offer for the team to deal away its floor general.

According to the source, the New York Knicks have been the team with the strongest interest in potentially acquiring Rondo from the Celtics as the deadline nears. The Knicks’ interest should come as no surprise as the team has endured their own struggles at point guard with the trio of Raymond Felton, Beno Udrih and Pablo Prigioni underachieving. However, the Celtics have no interest in the Knicks’ current assets at the moment.

LINK.

[Shamrock]

Not surprising, but:

However, a source with direct knowledge of the situation has informed Basketball Insiders that the Celtics have demonstrated little activity as it relates to potentially moving Rondo at the deadline. The team has stopped short of giving Rondo a no-trade guarantee, but has made it clear it would take a substantial offer for the team to deal away its floor general.

According to the source, the New York Knicks have been the team with the strongest interest in potentially acquiring Rondo from the Celtics as the deadline nears. The Knicks’ interest should come as no surprise as the team has endured their own struggles at point guard with the trio of Raymond Felton, Beno Udrih and Pablo Prigioni underachieving. However, the Celtics have no interest in the Knicks’ current assets at the moment.

LINK.

Rondo for Iman "D Wade" Shumpert?

[jfs1000d]

I think we hold on to Rondo to see what he can bring back when he is healthy. Right now, he's moving fine, but just seems slow and unexplosive.

He should get that back over time. If he doesn't, he isn't an NBA player IMO.

Celtics need Rondo to show some more quickness and change of direction ability.

We are losing with him. So, this season is now about getting Rondo healthy., developing Sully and Olynyk inside and seeing if Bradley and Jeff Green can become primary scorers. Everything else is window dressing.

[BannersOnly]

Trading NBA champion all star PG's when they are still their prime for anything less than a Top 5 pick or a better player in return is simply bad business. If you need to win a title with at least 3 all star players than what is the point of trading one who has shown the ability to step his game up in the playoffs? It just makes no sense which is why Danny reportedly asks for so much in return for the guy. He is worth more to us than an Iman Shumpert or pick outside the Top 5 will ever be. We would be fools to trade him unless we absolutely rape some team in a deal which most likely won't happen.

[soxfan2003]

Trading NBA champion all star PG's when they are still their prime for anything less than a Top 5 pick or a better player in return is simply bad business. If you need to win a title with at least 3 all star players than what is the point of trading one who has shown the ability to step his game up in the playoffs? It just makes no sense which is why Danny reportedly asks for so much in return for the guy. He is worth more to us than an Iman Shumpert or pick outside the Top 5 will ever be. We would be fools to trade him unless we absolutely rape some team in a deal which most likely won't happen.

Rondo has played moderately better in the playoffs but its mostly been about being more careful with the ball and playing better defense. That being said his playoff TS% is below 50% for his career and its hard to see that as anything but bad given that defenses weren't focused on him as a scorer.

All -star game appearances can be overrated especially in the EC at the PG position. Antoine Walker made 3 all star teams and is an NBA champion....does that mean he was a player that shouldn't have been traded? Of course he should have been traded but just in a different sort of deal. And Rondo looks like his prime is over. His prime IMHO was 2008-9 and 2009-10. When the Celtics won the championship in 2007-8, Rondo was a good role player but certainly far from a star.

Rondo stepped it up in the playoffs when he was quicker then he is now and playing with one of the GOAT star shooters/floor spacers(Ray Allen), PP and KG. Trying to find such talent quickly that can also defend is next to impossible with the Celtics cap situation.

The Celtics made a mistake not trading him last summer. They may end up just letting him play out his contract and then letting him go which would still be much better then a fat contract extension.

[StojkoVrankovic]

Wrong and baseless nonsense time and time again

[jfs1000d]

Here's the question.

How long will the rebuild take?

If Ainge isn't going to play in the FA market, not cash in his assets and develop, keeping Rondo is dumb.

If Ainge thinks he can get a star in the draft and pair with Rondo, fine. If Ainge wants to be competitive next year, keep Rondo.

But, if we are not going to make a move for an all-star, and think our draft pick is going to take time to develop, why keep Rondo? We aren't going to win with him, so we do without him.

As far as who Rondo is, he's a top flight PG,All-Star caliber, but not a franchise player because he isn't a primary scorer. He is a great player IMO, just he requires assets around him because he can't score enough and that's ultimately the No. 1 mark of a No. 1 player.

Rondo can make things easier for great players. But, if the players aren't good, Rondo is going to struggle.

He is a master conductor. The guy who is the conductor for Boston Pops doesn't look great as the conductor for a high school band.

Rondo is only as good as his ingredients.

[pac213up]

Here's the question.

How long will the rebuild take?

If Ainge isn't going to play in the FA market, not cash in his assets and develop, keeping Rondo is dumb.

Not only is it dumb, it is probably not a long term option. Rondo will very likely walk in Free Agency if the plan is not for an aggressive rebuild which includes a clear path to an already established elite player.

[exculpatory]

Here's the question.

How long will the rebuild take?

If Ainge isn't going to play in the FA market, not cash in his assets, keeping Rondo is dumb.

If Ainge thinks he can get a star in the draft (AND an established All Star in free agency and/or via trade), and pair with Rondo, fine. If Ainge wants to be competitive next year, keep Rondo.

But, if we are not going to make a move for an All Star, and think our draft pick is going to take time to develop, why keep Rondo? We aren't going to win with him, so we do without him.

As far as who Rondo is, he's a top flight PG, All Star caliber WHEN HEALTHY, but not a franchise player because he isn't a primary scorer. He is a great player IMO, just he requires assets around him because he can't score enough and that's ultimately the No. 1 mark of a No. 1 player.

Rondo can make things easier for great players. But, if the players aren't good, Rondo is going to struggle.

He is a master conductor. The guy who is the conductor for Boston Pops doesn't look great as the conductor for a high school band.

Rondo is only as good as his ingredients.

THIS x 1 billion. Guy & Soxfan also "get it."

I keep making this SAME point & then I see 15 posts overhyping Rondo to delusional levels. He is a scoring-impaired, excellent PG who has had several outstanding PO series. No more no less.

Given Rondo's profound offensive/scoring liabilities (disrespected 2 point J on or off the ball in the half court, & disgraceful FT shooting/3 point shooting), his place on the next Celtic contender, IF he RE-establishes his elite quickness, athleticism, & speed, is as a SUPERIOR field general who plays disruptive defense when focused - who masterfully distributes the ball to the next quasi-versions of the world class/professional scorer (Paul), 3 point sharpshooter (Ray) & elite big (KG). If DA plans to start filling in those glaring holes via a top pick & trade/free agency this summer, KEEP Rondo & extend him at 12 mill per year. If not, move him ASAP.

[EJay33]

I'd like to see Rondle settle in closer to 30 MPG than 40 MPG. He has elite defensive ability. He has flashed it several times. The narrative for the past few seasons is that Rondo takes on "so much responsibility" on offense that he can not longer player defense like he did as a young player. That has to change because as we know that isn't winning basketball. I'd love to see the team carry an actual backup point guard and get 30ish 100% effort Rondo minutes than try to stretch him for 37 minutes and get the guy who is dogging it on the other end. Let's face it Rondo is at his absolute best when he is being disruptive, getting in passing lanes, and blazing up the floor in transition. When he is a little worn out and laying in the half court he just doesn't have that slow down game like an elite point guard like Chris Paul has. At that point get a fresh body in the lineup with the different skill set and bring Rondo back when he can be the chaotic Rondo that we love and need.

With all that said and since this is a Rondo trade rumor thread: I did hear on a podcast that Rondo/Westbrook talks were warming up again. Unclear what the source was and no idea why OKC would consider it but thought I'd throw it out there. I for one would be absolutely thrilled if it happened but Rondo will need to show more to be able to be included in a deal of that nature with a contender at this trade deadline.

[EJay33]

I just read through several pages of this thread and for crying out loud, some of these posts are nauseating. People just gushing over Rondo being a "special" passer. You know what makes a guy a special passer? When he has the ability to score on anyone in the league, yet has that extra something else in his mind that makes him able to see the floor well enough to find open team mates should a defense try to bring help. Think Bird, Magic, LeBron, CP3, Durant. It is virtually impossible to not have a good offense when you have a player like that. Rondo sees the floor well but due to the fact that he is not a good scorer despite SamIam convincing himself to the contrary, defenses just collapse and the result is below average offense all around.

07-08 ORTG: 12th
08-09 ORTG: 6th
09-10 ORTG: 13th
10-11 ORTG: 18th
11-12 ORTG: 24th
12-13 ORTG: 20th
13-14 ORTG: 26th

If this guy is so friggin special, how come we have had a bottom 1/3 NBA offense for 3-4 years? Making matters worse, when Rondo is asked questions like "What are your goals for this season" his responses are to chase stats. "I want to lead the league in assists." That's something Wilt Chamberlain would say, whereas Bill Russell would said "I want to win the championship."

Let's see Rondo captain this team to a top 10 ORTG or hell, I'll even take a .500 record before I call him "special" anything. Right now he is just a guy with a messed up knee who is probably going to ask for a maximum salary who does not deserve it. Similar situation as Antoine Walker and the Celtics paid him and were mired in mediocrity for years.

Right now he is a nice player who can be easily gameplanned for and defeated if the objective is to win a basketball game. That is simply not good enough for a max salary or for this level of salivation over his contributions on the basketball court. I fail to see how he is making this team better where it matters: Wins and losses.

[soxfan2003]

I'd like to see Rondle settle in closer to 30 MPG than 40 MPG. He has elite defensive ability. He has flashed it several times. The narrative for the past few seasons is that Rondo takes on "so much responsibility" on offense that he can not longer player defense like he did as a young player. That has to change because as we know that isn't winning basketball. I'd love to see the team carry an actual backup point guard and get 30ish 100% effort Rondo minutes than try to stretch him for 37 minutes and get the guy who is dogging it on the other end. Let's face it Rondo is at his absolute best when he is being disruptive, getting in passing lanes, and blazing up the floor in transition. When he is a little worn out and laying in the half court he just doesn't have that slow down game like an elite point guard like Chris Paul has. At that point get a fresh body in the lineup with the different skill set and bring Rondo back when he can be the chaotic Rondo that we love and need.

With all that said and since this is a Rondo trade rumor thread: I did hear on a podcast that Rondo/Westbrook talks were warming up again. Unclear what the source was and no idea why OKC would consider it but thought I'd throw it out there. I for one would be absolutely thrilled if it happened but Rondo will need to show more to be able to be included in a deal of that nature with a contender at this trade deadline.

I agree with your first paragraph.

I just can't picture OKC trading Westbrook, if reasonably healthy, for Rondo straight up especially after Rondo's truly horrid start so I'm actually scared if this has validity since I don't want the Celtics giving up other assets for Wesbrook at this stage like first round picks. I do realize you qualified your remarks about Rondo playing better. Westbrook is an injury risk himself nowadays but at least he proved he was back from his more major knee operation before OKC just did a much more minor operation.

The way this makes sense for OKC is if they believe Westbrook is pretty much done himself as a player and then just want to get out of the last two years of his contract so sign some huge fish like Lebron at the end of next year. But even under that scenario, I would think another team would offer OKC much more then just a soon to be 28 year old Rondo.

Right now, the only big money PG I'd feel comfortable the Celtics building around at max money is a younger Chris Paul. I just think its best to spend the money elsewhere since the PG position is so deep and there are very good players often making around 10 million or less.

Westbrook is better then Rondo but given his knee injury and the current state of the Celtics, I wouldn't feel comfortable with the Celtics paying him 16.5 million a year to be "the man". And even throwing Love or Carmelo on the team wouldn't get me excited.

I said it a few weeks ago but when I watch Durant, I think I am honestly watching the GOAT offensive player. Since I posted that, he has just lit up more and more opponents.

[Ben-N1ce]

Rondo is a good player not an elite player and as stated above he chases stats..passing up layup's etc..This quote below is basically stating he was seeking triple doubles and figured out how to get them and win games? Isn't the goal to always just win games

"I wanted to play against the Heat that day. I wanted to play, period," Rondo said. "I thought I was in a good rhythm. I think I had two triple-doubles the two games prior, so I felt like I was in a good groove. I felt like I almost mastered a triple-double at that time. I knew how to get them and still win games.