Questions about Dwight

[ChokeFasncists]

Hi there, Rockets fan here, I have a question for you Magic fans: how did Dwight carry the team to the Finals offensively? What worked best, two men game with Nelson, posting up with four shooters or bulldozing to the rim like Shaq?

Thanks in advance. Cheer!

[bigdogdylan5]

Hi there, Rockets fan here, I have a question for you Magic fans: how did Dwight carry the team to the Finals offensively? What worked best, two men game with Nelson, posting up with four shooters or bulldozing to the rim like Shaq?

Thanks in advance. Cheer!

Honestly it was more the system than Dwight. Dwight is a great player and talent but he alone will not carry you to a championship, he is very offensively challenged with anything outside of an occasional hook or dunk and you cant rely on him in 4th quarters at all. Stan Van Gundy put him in a great position we went to the finals playing inside how playing the threat of Dwight inside to get open shots for Rashard Hedo Pietrus and others. Remember on that finals run we did not have Nelson until the finals and honestly in my opinion him coming back seriously hurt us because his defense will and always be the worst I have ever seen. If I want to point to a player outside of Dwight it was clearly Hedo Turkoglu. He played like James Harden in those playoffs it was very similar thus why he got a contract he didn't deserve. He is not the hardest worker so SVG had to push him every step of the way but it worked. The pick and roll between them was unstoppable at some points because Hedo could shoot and was so tall with great handles, could handle the ball like no other 6-10 guy I have ever seen. Hedo carried us through 4th quarters when we couldn't go to Dwight and was our leading scorer in 4th quarters. Eventually it all fell apart because coaches developed a good strategy against us. Hedo was gone to Toronto and we had no one who could create their own shot. So coaches said I am gonna guard Dwight 1 on 1 and let him get his, but I am gonna stick to every 3pt shooter and not give them open looks and it worked nobody did that strategy better than the Atlanta Hawks who knocked up out.

[ChokeFasncists]

Hi there, Rockets fan here, I have a question for you Magic fans: how did Dwight carry the team to the Finals offensively? What worked best, two men game with Nelson, posting up with four shooters or bulldozing to the rim like Shaq?

Thanks in advance. Cheer!

Honestly it was more the system than Dwight. Dwight is a great player and talent but he alone will not carry you to a championship, he is very offensively challenged with anything outside of an occasional hook or dunk and you cant rely on him in 4th quarters at all. Stan Van Gundy put him in a great position we went to the finals playing inside how playing the threat of Dwight inside to get open shots for Rashard Hedo Pietrus and others. Remember on that finals run we did not have Nelson until the finals and honestly in my opinion him coming back seriously hurt us because his defense will and always be the worst I have ever seen. If I want to point to a player outside of Dwight it was clearly Hedo Turkoglu. He played like James Harden in those playoffs it was very similar thus why he got a contract he didn't deserve. He is not the hardest worker so SVG had to push him every step of the way but it worked. The pick and roll between them was unstoppable at some points because Hedo could shoot and was so tall with great handles, could handle the ball like no other 6-10 guy I have ever seen. Hedo carried us through 4th quarters when we couldn't go to Dwight and was our leading scorer in 4th quarters. Eventually it all fell apart because coaches developed a good strategy against us. Hedo was gone to Toronto and we had no one who could create their own shot. So coaches said I am gonna guard Dwight 1 on 1 and let him get his, but I am gonna stick to every 3pt shooter and not give them open looks and it worked nobody did that strategy better than the Atlanta Hawks who knocked up out.

Thanks so much! Forgot that Nelson was out for a long time. So it was a two men game between Hedo and Dwight? Pick and roll? Dwight passing out from the post? Lob passes?

You mentioned James Harden, do you mean just that playoffs with the Thunder or you are also talking about these two years with the Rockets? So it was Hedo leaving that broke the team. I thought the Magic was spending alot? Lewis, Arenas, Gortat, if Hedo was so important why didn't they spend to keep him?

Thanks again!

[bigdogdylan5]

Thanks so much! Forgot that Nelson was out for a long time. So it was a two men game between Hedo and Dwight? Pick and roll? Dwight passing out from the post? Lob passes?

You mentioned James Harden, do you mean just that playoffs with the Thunder or you are also talking about these two years with the Rockets? So it was Hedo leaving that broke the team. I thought the Magic was spending alot? Lewis, Arenas, Gortat, if Hedo was so important why didn't they spend to keep him?

Thanks again!

What worked best was the pick and roll and two man game between Hedo and Dwight. Dwight passing out of the post was mediocre at best but he required so much attention that he didn't need to be great at it. Our offense in 2009 was almost all Pick and Roll and just feeding Dwight in the post. When we fed Dwight in the post either we let him go one on one or when they committed to the double team he got it out to the wing where the team then passed around the horn till we hit an open man for a three. So when it wasn't two man game with Howard and Hedo it was all Dwight and 4 shooters.

Hedo was playing like Harden in Houston in the 2009 playoffs. There is no comparison Harden is 5 times the player Hedo was but at that time there play was very similar.

2009 was our peak year Hedo was having a career year capitalized by playoffs and Rashard Lewis made the All Star team even Nelson made the All star team before he got injured. I think I maybe downplayed how important a player Rashard was. He was essential to all our success the problem was we paid him for 5-6 years as a top 5 player in this league when he really was a 2nd or 3rd option at best. His problem was he didn't have the handles to create a shot all by himself. He was insanely quick on cuts and when Dwight commanded the double team he would always find a defender running to catch up with him and he would blow by them. However that sort of offense became unreliable when coaches refused to double Dwight and stayed at home with the shooters.

Hedo was valuable to our team but he was notorious for his lack of effort and displine. SVG had to force him into everything. There were reports of him smoking a couple packs of cigs a day and eating pizza and fast food minutes before games. It was no coincidence that his best year came in a contract year. He just flat out didn't deserve that money and everyone knew it. He got the contract and went to Toronto where they hated him and couldn't get rid of him fast enough. They tried to bring in Vince Carter to replace Hedo but he never found his niche because SVG was a very controlling coach and he didn't fit the system and all his athltism was gone I mean I remember 3-4 times that year he got blocked by the rim.

We spent a lot of money but we had the worst GM arguably in professional sports. He convinced himself to pay Rashard Lewis like a super star, he made the right move in letting Hedo walk but instead of trying to rebuild on fly with cap space he panicked when Lewis was caught for PEDs and his production fell off a cliff and traded our best asset Gortat for Hedo albatross contract and Jason Richardson who made a living on his Athletism which was gone just after he was burned the same way by Carter. Then we did Arenas trade bad contract for a worse contract with an extra year on it. And SVG really refused to give Arenas playing time. He was basically a 20 million dollar a year back up PG.

[Optimus_Steel]

I always felt this team was at is very best when Stan had Dwight set up those nasty picks to give Hedo and Nelson daylight to either: take it to the basket (if they miss Dwight go to the basket for the offensive rebound), pass to the open 3pt shooter on the wing, dump the ball inside to a cutting Dwight at the basket, or Hedo/Nelson pull up for the open mid range jumper. It became virtually unstoppable, with Hedo's special talents (tremendous handle, ability to see over the defense, could shot and a great passer) it took the team to another level, and the team became the best team in the league at ball movement. Watching the team move the ball around the perimeter to find the open 3pt. shooter was a thing of beauty. We did not go to the post to Dwight a lot, treated him as a finisher, which was the right thing because he has no touch or finesse. The only time I can remember us riding Dwight in the post during that 09 playoff run was in game 6 when we beat Cle. He totally demolished them, but he was working extremely hard at getting the best/deepest inside position he ever had, he wasn't wasting time with his moves and he was attacking as soon as he got the ball, and Verajao was too slow and small, Ilgauskas too ridiculously slow.

Unfortunately Dwight's head got too big and he started listening to critics saying his post game sucked so he refused to keep setting those picks that helped his team so much and decided to park himself near the paint and just stand there and wait for the ball so that he can make post moves. At first teams were doubling and he was doing an admirable job passing the ball to the perimeter for open 3's, but Boston figured out that they did not need to double Dwight because his post game sucks (can't dribble, no touch, mechanical, no finesse, has no idea still how to fight for and keep great post position etc.). All this did was completely slow down the offense to a grinding halt since it killed the player and ball movement, lead to numerous turnovers by Dwight (traveling, getting stripped by smaller guards), many offensive fouls of Dwight trying to barrel in to a guy, missed free throws, and the perimeter defense was able to stay home on the 3pt shooters. It was made worse because we did not have great penetrators and with Dwight no longer setting picks it snowballed.

I think more credit needs to go to Stan for implementing a system that maximized the strengths of the team. He was able for a long time to keep Dwight focused on rebounding and setting picks/finishing, and that was a great chore because Dwight was constantly complaining about getting the ball in the post. He pushed Hedo to max his talents, he got Lewis to play admirable defense while playing out of position, etc. His defensive system of funneling everything to Dwight while having the 3pt line covered was extremely effective.

[CourtsideTV]

He was surrounded by Hedo , Peitrus, and Shard on the wings. Defenders couldn't handle his strength as he would post up and dunk and if they tried to double then someone would be open for a 3.

[drsd]

He was surrounded by Hedo , Peitrus, and Shard on the wings. Defenders couldn't handle his strength as he would post up and dunk and if they tried to double then someone would be open for a 3.

... and Nelson. It was a 4 + 1 offensive set. Orlando won games that set of playoff series from some ace, clutch 3-ball shooting from Turkoglu and Lewis. The NBA ran "It's Amazing" adds based on their clutch play late in games.

For Houston, surrounding Howrd with shooters is a path towards future success.

[G-Heel]

We were lucky, but I wouldn't downplay Dwight's importance. Replacing him with any center at the time, then we wouldn't make it to the final. He's (and the team) most dangerous when he's focusing on defense. Jameer coming back from the injury doomed us during that final and lacking an elite wing didn't help.

Rockets can win it all if he's focused on defense and just let the offense come to him, but Harden and Parsons would have to do most of the offensive work.

[CourtsideTV]

He was surrounded by Hedo , Peitrus, and Shard on the wings. Defenders couldn't handle his strength as he would post up and dunk and if they tried to double then someone would be open for a 3.

... and Nelson. It was a 4 + 1 offensive set. Orlando won games that set of playoff series from some ace, clutch 3-ball shooting from Turkoglu and Lewis. The NBA ran "It's Amazing" adds based on their clutch play late in games.

For Houston, surrounding Howrd with shooters is a path towards future success.

wasn't nelson injured until the finals? we had rafer leading the point.


also dwight was a defensive beast that year..something got him to focus on defense like none other..he just shut down everything.

[Neato]

It doesn't look like it on paper, but that team was put together pretty beautifully with all the mismatches it created. Sure, there's the issue of salary but I won't get into all that.

[drsd]

wasn't nelson injured until the finals? we had rafer leading the point.

Yes Nelson was injured around the ASW. My point was that more generally Howard was most effective over the years when surrounded with shooters. And Nelson was a key part of that.

Recall that Nelson made his all-star that year.


..

[Optimus_Steel]

We were lucky, but I wouldn't downplay Dwight's importance. Replacing him with any center at the time, then we wouldn't make it to the final. He's (and the team) most dangerous when he's focusing on defense. Jameer coming back from the injury doomed us during that final and lacking an elite wing didn't help.

Rockets can win it all if he's focused on defense and just let the offense come to him, but Harden and Parsons would have to do most of the offensive work.

No doubt. The reason we were elite and almost won the title was because of Dwight's all world defense and rebounding. We are not there with out that, thats for sure. Part of our downfall was when Dwight changed and refused to focus on defense and decided to put his energy on offense. He stopped doing what he did best and focused on what he does worse. I completely agree, he needs to focus on defense, help D, rebounding, rotating, intimidating, blocking shots. On offense focus on letting the ball come to him, not force too many post ups, don't dribble too much, set picks, and crash the offensive boards. If he could embrace the role of Bill Russell instead of pretending to be Hakeem his team could win the title. They could use Parsons as their Hedo. They have the explosive penetrator in Harden that the Magic never head. As a veteran he needs to step up and get on Harden's ass and get him to play defense and not be so selfish. However, that probably wont happen because Dwight is not a good leader, and he thinks that whining, complaining, and throwing teammates and coaches under the bus constitutes leadership. Dwight is also extremely stubborn, sensitive, and delusional, so I am not sure he is willing to do the "dirty work" anymore. He treats it like its beneath him now, its not glamorous for him. Its about being on Sportcenter top plays.

[Optimus_Steel]

wasn't nelson injured until the finals? we had rafer leading the point.

Yes Nelson was injured around the ASW. My point was that more generally Howard was most effective over the years when surrounded with shooters. And Nelson was a key part of that.

Recall that Nelson made his all-star that year.


..

Nelson was having a spectacular year and the allstar berth was well deserved. He was shooting lights out, he was shooting 50% from the field (at the time Tony Parker was the only other point guard shooting over 50%), he was clutch as hell. Anyone remember the regular season game against the Lakers in LA that the Magic made that huge comeback and Nelson totally demolished Fisher? He was moving the ball and penetrating and finishing. The best he has ever played no doubt was during that time. A healthy Nelson would have destroyed Fisher. Alston did a great job though and he should have been playing against Fisher in late situations, not injured Nelson. Still think about those open 3's he allowed Fisher to take...

[BadMofoPimp]

Hi there, Rockets fan here, I have a question for you Magic fans: how did Dwight carry the team to the Finals offensively? What worked best, two men game with Nelson, posting up with four shooters or bulldozing to the rim like Shaq?

Thanks in advance. Cheer!

Stan Van Gundy created a Team Defensive Masterpiece. It is not all about offense. The Rockets problems is they are short on defensive specialists and the rest of the guys don't play good team defense, but are more gamblers going for steals. The Magic would cut off lanes and force players down lanes on drives where Dwight would be waiting.

Your Welcome -BMP

[in-limbo]

Some astute posts here about Dwight's strenghts...too bad no one can tell Dwight. And a very non astute comment by the OP. I don't think he must have seen Shaq play with Orlando if that's how he would describe Shaqs game compared to Dwights.

Problem with your boy is he wont get on sportscenter playing to his strengths...he would win the Rockets a title but still wont do it. All the things he did to anchor our team to the Finals went away the night of the dunk contest. As an example...how pissed would Rockets fans be if he ran his bitch ass mouth so much he missed a playoff game. Dwight is the ultimate frustration, if you win anything it will be because of Harden. On that note...James Harden will grow tired of Dwight's act. Ever wonder why Dwight was never able to recruit a player here...there is a very short list of people who respect Dwight Howard.

[GameOver25]

His awful post moves and robotic technique led to Kendrick Perkins getting overrated for his defense.

[in-limbo]

I loved Dwight but it was some 2 years before he was traded that I didn't want to hear him speak. I watch all the post game interviews and would literally always skip his. I would love to see him learn what matters...but he wont and you can quote me on that.

[OrlandO]

His awful post moves and robotic technique led to Kendrick Perkins getting overrated for his defense.

Perk was overrated while on the Celtics, but to be fair he is allowing only 36.8 FG% at the rim this season, which leads the league for bigs that have played in at least 30 games. The funny thing is, dwight eventually started dominating him while on the magic but now perk seems to be shutting him down again on the rockets. 11 pts (38%) and 8 reb, 9 pts (30%) and 9 reb in two games vs OKC this season.

[OrlandO]

Dwight was at his best when he constantly had SVG yelling at him.

OP, what is up with Dwight's block numbers? 1.7? First season he's averaged less than 2 since his third year in the league...

[mhectorgato]

His awful post moves and robotic technique led to Kendrick Perkins getting overrated for his defense.

Perk was overrated while on the Celtics, but to be fair he is allowing only 36.8 FG% at the rim this season, which leads the league for bigs that have played in at least 30 games. The funny thing is, dwight eventually started dominating him while on the magic but now perk seems to be shutting him down again on the rockets. 11 pts (38%) and 8 reb, 9 pts (30%) and 9 reb in two games vs OKC this season.

The athletic bigs were easily overpowered by D12.

Perk was able to play physical against D12 which effected him greatly. Those type of defenders gave him fits, which is why he worked to add a running hook shot and then an outside shot.

Dwight was at his best when he constantly had SVG yelling at him.

Agreed - he didn't like it at the time, but it was the best thing for him.