Rather build a team around Carmelo Anthony or Steph Curry?

[Buggin Out]

Please teach me about the fear that Melo strikes into the heart of opposing shooters.

There isn't a single player that strikes fear into anyone on a basketball court

that has nothing to do with Melo's skill set

again watch games, not box scores thank you

Stop it with your buzzwords and rationalization dude. You said Melo "can do it all on the court". Part of "all" in basketball is defense. Speak to that or walk away.

Currently this year the Knicks are better defensively with Melo on the court then off. So yeah he is doing it all, especially for the Knicks. This year I would say he is the, best scorer, rebounder, playmaker, defender, shot blocker etc. on the team. Knicks players have been horrible this year.

[MisterWestside]

Stop it with your buzzwords and rationalization dude. You said Melo "can do it all on the court". Part of "all" in basketball is defense. Speak to that or walk away.

Well, the Knicks DO fall off 6+ pts/100 possessions when Melo's not on the floor. Compare that to the DGOAT KG, whose Nets fall off only 5.7 pts/100 possessions.

So...MELO THE DEFENSIVE ANCHOR!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!11111111111111111111

(No, I do NOT rank Melo as an elite defender. Or even as a so-so defender, I chalk up a lot of that to the disjointedness of the Knicks roster.)

[Mars_Blackmon]

Please teach me about the fear that Melo strikes into the heart of opposing shooters.

There isn't a single player that strikes fear into anyone on a basketball court

that has nothing to do with Melo's skill set

again watch games, not box scores thank you

Stop it with your buzzwords and rationalization dude. You said Melo "can do it all on the court". Part of "all" in basketball is defense. Speak to that or walk away.

So Melo doesn't play defense???

Haha get real dude you know nothing seriously just stop discussing Melo you don't know his game at all

[MojoPharoah]

Either way if you compare the last two games of PG vs Lebron to the last two of games of Anthony, I'd think you find Melo has the more impressive stats, vs Lebron, unless you just have lower standards for Paul George. Also in the last game Melo put up 29 on 50% shooting against the Heat while guarding Lebron the whole game, while Lebron, because battier was out, guarded Melo the whole time. So yeah I would argue Melo is the better rival and has been for most of Lebron's career.

The last game vs the Knicks, LeBron had 32 points on 70% FG with Melo guarding him. Conversely, PG's held him under his season FG% in both games, while matching LeBron's output, effectively cancelling LBJ out, so to speak. The 2-way impact is what makes PG a better rival, imo.

Meh, PG really didn't cancel Lebron out since Lebron's team still won and Lebron shot 57% from the floor. Also while Lebron shot 70% most of the time Lebron scored Melo wasn't on him (got switched onto Bargnani a lot as you can see in the clip I posted earlier in the thread). Also Melo won the game in other ways with his playmaking and rebounding.

So, 24(57%) on 14 shots, 9 & 7 is not essentially equal to 25(50%) on 16 FGA, 8 & 6? Thus far in the H2H matchup, LBJ has 41 pts on 30 FGAs + 13 asts while PG has 42 pts on 27 FGAs + 10 asts. That's a wash, really.

IMO, the biggest reason why MIA lost the 1st and won the 2nd wasn't DWade's 15 point increase from G1 to G2, from just 17 to 32 points, while Hibbert spent half the 2nd game in foul trouble, playing only 23 min and going from scoring 24 in the 1st to 6 in the 2nd game. Because, in watching the game and reviewing the numbers, PG and LBJ cancelled one another out, it was the dramatic swings between Wade & Hibbert that determined the game.

Meanwhile, in the NYK game, LBJ had 32 on 17 shots plus 5 & 6, while Melo had 29 on 24 shots, plus 5 & 8. BTW, Melo was the 3rd leading rebounder on his team, behind Shump and Stat. MIA lost because Bosh pulled a no-show, with only 6 points on 3-10, while Bargs actually tripled him with 19 on 9-13, while Stat pitched in a double-double off the bench. That was the difference in the game, It wasn't Melo's impact on LBJ. Bosh got outplayed by his ex-teammate. Plain and simple.

[Doctor MJ]

So Melo doesn't play defense???

Haha get real dude you know nothing seriously just stop discussing Melo you don't know his game at all

All I'm asking you to do is explain your opinions dude. You said he did "it all", and you've now repeatedly mocked me in response rather than actually explaining yourself. Why is it pulling teeth to get you to actually talk basketball specifics but you're cocky beyond belief when it comes to asserting generic stuff?

[Doctor MJ]

This year I would say he is the, best scorer, rebounder, playmaker, defender, shot blocker etc. on the team. Knicks players have been horrible this year.

Well yeah. General rule if Melo's the best on your team on X, and X isn't scoring, then your team sucks at X. That's a lot of sucking there.

[Mars_Blackmon]

So Melo doesn't play defense???

Haha get real dude you know nothing seriously just stop discussing Melo you don't know his game at all

All I'm asking you to do is explain your opinions dude. You said he did "it all", and you've now repeatedly mocked me in response rather than actually explaining yourself. Why is it pulling teeth to get you to actually talk basketball specifics but you're cocky beyond belief when it comes to asserting generic stuff?

Watch the games dude it's that simple

[mojay641]

Check their performance when he doesn't play. They essentially fall off a cliff.

so have the knicks without melo the last 2 seasons.

look at 2013. 47-18 with him. 7-10 without him.

GSW is 0-3 w/o him; they haven't scored above 95 in any of the 3 games he's missed, while scoring 81 and 74 in the other 2. Klay Thompson shot below 31% from the floor in 2 of the games, David Lee struggled to score as well. Curry is the engine that makes them go.

3 games is nothing, especially considering they didn't have iggy in all 3 of those games. pretty sure they had some other injuries as well. every star is the 'engine' that makes their team go. look at the 2013 knicks. 3rd best offense in the entire league. take melo off that team and i bet they're not even in the top 20. people underrate the improvements melo has made to his game. the guy has become a legitimately amazing offensive player. great scorer. good efficiency. great post-up game. incredibly low turnover rate. has become a great 3-pt shooter. added bonus of being able to play the 4. yet all you hear is that hes a "chucker'" pathetic.

[MojoPharoah]

There isn't a single player that strikes fear into anyone on a basketball court

that has nothing to do with Melo's skill set

again watch games, not box scores thank you

Stop it with your buzzwords and rationalization dude. You said Melo "can do it all on the court". Part of "all" in basketball is defense. Speak to that or walk away.

Currently this year the Knicks are better defensively with Melo on the court then off. So yeah he is doing it all, especially for the Knicks. This year I would say he is the, best scorer, rebounder, playmaker, defender, shot blocker etc. on the team. Knicks players have been horrible this year.

Wow. I guess when the backups are either Bargs or Stat when Melo's a 4 or JR/Shump when he's a 3, that's not saying much is it? You can say he's 'doing it all', 'all' of what is anybody's guess.

[MojoPharoah]

Check their performance when he doesn't play. They essentially fall off a cliff.

so have the knicks without melo the last 2 seasons.

look at 2013. 47-18 with him. 7-10 without him.

GSW is 0-3 w/o him; they haven't scored above 95 in any of the 3 games he's missed, while scoring 81 and 74 in the other 2. Klay Thompson shot below 31% from the floor in 2 of the games, David Lee struggled to score as well. Curry is the engine that makes them go.

3 games is nothing, especially considering they didn't have iggy in all 3 of those games. pretty sure they had some other injuries as well. every star is the 'engine' that makes their team go. look at the 2013 knicks. 3rd best offense in the entire league. take melo off that team and i bet they're not even in the top 20. people underrate the improvements melo has made to his game. the guy has become a legitimately amazing offensive player. great scorer. good efficiency. great post-up game. incredibly low turnover rate. has become a great 3-pt shooter. added bonus of being able to play the 4. yet all you hear is that hes a "chucker'" pathetic.

Nice try, but actually, Iggy played all 3 games. Everybody in their regular rotation played all 3 except for Curry, yet they could not crack 95 ppg w/o Curry. One of the best, most dangerous offenses in the league produce an abysmal composite ORTG of 93 in 3 games w/o Curry, 2 pts less than the Bucks, while one of the teams they played included the Lakers. Hence, 'Engine'.

BTW, the reason I called Melo a chucker is that he literally holds the ball more than any non-PG/non-LBJ player in the league while shooting 3 times more than he creates scoring chances for his teammates. Durant, for example, is at a 2:1 ratio in that stat.

Everything about Melo is scoring. Every single improvement you brought up involves him scoring the ball. Even his TOV% is a reflection of his scoring; it is low partially because he rarely passes or drives(2.6 times per game) & missed shots aren't TOs. Lou Williams used to pull the same trick, which made his numbers look better analytically, with his draw rate and low TOV% despite high usage. Per SportVU, Melo drives less than Kirk Hinrich or Richard Jefferson; he relies on his pull-up and his turnaround and rarely ventures into traffic, which was really indicative during his great 62 point game, where the vast majority of his shots were jumpers, especially mid-range jumpers.

And yes, he can be 'hidden' at the 4, because there is a pronounced lack of great scoring 4s in the Eastern Conference and he has the strength to bang with most of the rabble that mans the spot in the East. The best Eastern offensive 4s are either combo forwards like Melo (i.e Thad Young or Paul Millsap(who just came to ATL) or Chris Bosh, who mostly plays C in MIA anyway. Meanwhile, Melo spent last year wrestling with the Brandon Bass and Reggie Evans types. So, yeah, he can 'guard' a 4, much like LeBron can 'guard' a 5 when he was on Perk during the 12 Finals in order to roam like he was Brian Dawkins.

[Doctor MJ]

So Melo doesn't play defense???

Haha get real dude you know nothing seriously just stop discussing Melo you don't know his game at all

All I'm asking you to do is explain your opinions dude. You said he did "it all", and you've now repeatedly mocked me in response rather than actually explaining yourself. Why is it pulling teeth to get you to actually talk basketball specifics but you're cocky beyond belief when it comes to asserting generic stuff?

Watch the games dude it's that simple

I repeat: All I'm asking you to do is explain your opinions dude. Why are you even on here if you won't do that?

[Mars_Blackmon]

All I'm asking you to do is explain your opinions dude. You said he did "it all", and you've now repeatedly mocked me in response rather than actually explaining yourself. Why is it pulling teeth to get you to actually talk basketball specifics but you're cocky beyond belief when it comes to asserting generic stuff?

Watch the games dude it's that simple

I repeat: All I'm asking you to do is explain your opinions dude. Why are you even on here if you won't do that?

Because arguing with guys on here about Melo is a constant he's a black hole, inefficient chucker who doesn't play D or pass the ball

I don't wanna do that

So watch the games he can and does it all on the court there's nothing he can't do

[MojoPharoah]

Watch the games dude it's that simple

I repeat: All I'm asking you to do is explain your opinions dude. Why are you even on here if you won't do that?

Because arguing with guys on here about Melo is a constant he's a black hole, inefficient chucker who doesn't play D or pass the ball

I don't wanna do that

So watch the games he can and does it all on the court there's nothing he can't do

But there is plenty he DOESN'T do on the regular basis. That's the point. He could & should be a more consistent playmaker & defender, he just doesn't do it. He ebbs and flows and it hurts his teams, always has. If you really watched the games like you SAY you do, you'd see that.

[B_Creamy]

Because arguing with guys on here about Melo is a constant he's a black hole, inefficient chucker who doesn't play D or pass the ball

I don't wanna do that

So watch the games he can and does it all on the court there's nothing he can't do

Are we watching different games or do you need a new pair of glasses?

Honestly if you don't want to discuss players on the player comparison board why do you even come here?

[Mars_Blackmon]

Because arguing with guys on here about Melo is a constant he's a black hole, inefficient chucker who doesn't play D or pass the ball

I don't wanna do that

So watch the games he can and does it all on the court there's nothing he can't do

Are we watching different games or do you need a new pair of glasses?

Honestly if you don't want to discuss players on the player comparison board why do you even come here?

I stated my case about Melo but the point is if all I'm getting is the same narrative

You just proved my point when you says I need glasses

I'm not interested in that kind of discussion either know your stuff or say nothing period

[NOOB77]

Wow at some of the answers... I would easily go with carmelo.. Imo theres a lot of good point guards in the league. Plus carmelo is one of a kind. He has a big body for a small forward and sometimes hard to guard one on one. Plus when is the last time a point guard who is the alpha dog, won a championship?

Technically, Tony Parker won FMVP in 2007 and lead the Spurs to the Finals last year as the alpha dog.

The better question is when was the last time a score-only wing who is best optimized as a small-ball 4 won a title as the alpha dog?

Dirk

[boquilla]

Say you were a GM starting a team from scratch and you had the choice of Melo or Steph to build a team around, which would you rather have and why?

Take everything (age, injuries) into consideration, except for contract, assume they are to be paid evenly.

Who is the better player to build a team around?

Melo

[MojoPharoah]

Wow at some of the answers... I would easily go with carmelo.. Imo theres a lot of good point guards in the league. Plus carmelo is one of a kind. He has a big body for a small forward and sometimes hard to guard one on one. Plus when is the last time a point guard who is the alpha dog, won a championship?

Technically, Tony Parker won FMVP in 2007 and lead the Spurs to the Finals last year as the alpha dog.

The better question is when was the last time a score-only wing who is best optimized as a small-ball 4 won a title as the alpha dog?

Dirk

lol. Dirk is many things but he was never really a wing; he's always been a stretch-4, but not a small-ball 4. He's a legit 7-footer with the length to contest shots inside, especially when teamed with a viable rim protector(like Chandler), which means you can play some conventional defenses with him and not change much. His evolution in that regard is not dissimilar to how David Lee is playing for GSW right now, which is why you aren't hearing much complaining about his defense anymore. They've schemed around it.

Conversely, you cannot use Melo as a help defender to protect as much against rim attacks, with or w/o Chandler. So teams that place NY in a P/R with Chandler on the screener do so because it leaves the paint wide open. That's a systemic problem that cannot be fixed for NYK when running Melo as a 4. He's not SSOL Marion or MIA LeBron, by any stretch of the imagination.

As a result, A Melo-4 team would need a ridiculously prolific offense to cover for a likely subpar D in order to contend.

[therealbig3]

Because arguing with guys on here about Melo is a constant he's a black hole, inefficient chucker who doesn't play D or pass the ball

I don't wanna do that

So watch the games he can and does it all on the court there's nothing he can't do

Are we watching different games or do you need a new pair of glasses?

Honestly if you don't want to discuss players on the player comparison board why do you even come here?

I stated my case about Melo but the point is if all I'm getting is the same narrative

You just proved my point when you says I need glasses

I'm not interested in that kind of discussion either know your stuff or say nothing period

According to you, knowing our stuff is to agree with you that Melo does it all...if we disagree, we just need to watch the games, because we're clearly wrong?

Melo is not a good defender, he's average at best, and has historically been below average his entire career, sometimes just straight up bad. His defensive awareness sucks. Yeah, as a 1 on 1 man defender, he can be pretty good, but there's so much more to defense than 1 on 1 defense...the most important part of defense is rotations and help defense, and Melo CONSTANTLY gets lost in those situations.

Offensively, I don't think he's a bad passer, or an unwilling passer...but he takes a lot of bad shots for sure. He doesn't finish well inside. He slows down an offense with ISO Melo a lot. He's not a great ball handler. He's an excellent 1 on 1 scorer though. But again, similar to defense, there's way more to offense than going 1 on 1. Overall, I'd say he's one of the best offensive players in the game though, because he IS a solid passer, he IS a fantastic scorer, and he DOES demand a lot of defensive attention that opens things up for other players. But he falls short of some of the other great offensive players in the game, like LeBron, like Durant, like CP3, because he's got clear flaws to his game that holds him back from being as great offensively as he could be.

[therealbig3]

As a result, A Melo-4 team would need a ridiculously prolific offense to cover for a likely subpar D in order to contend.

Which in all fairness, is what they had last year.

Melo deserves a lot of credit for that, but I also think people underrated his supporting cast last year. Yeah, the names around him weren't big name players, but they all stepped in and did their jobs. Felton played a lot better last year, and the Felton/Chandler PnR was one of the best combos in the league. Chandler is a HUGELY underrated offensive player, because he can't create his own shot. But how many easy dunks/layups and 2nd/3rd/4th possessions did he generate? A LOT.

And the Knicks were a great 3pt shooting team that didn't turn the ball over. Melo was the highest usage player and he took the most 3s...but they had a bunch of players that could hit the 3 and did a good job of not turning the ball over. JR Smith had a good year too, as opposed to the crap year he's having now.