Andrew Wiggins is not a lock at #1?

[Randle McMurphy]

Davis was perhaps the best college defender I've ever seen. His presence alone in that regard puts his overall impact above Embiid for me. Embiid has much more offensively to his game than Davis had (and probably a much higher ceiling there too), though.

[Randle McMurphy]

"At the beginning of the season?" He fouled out twice within the last 5 games.

Yes, his fouling rate has dropped since the beginning of the season. The fact that he fouled out twice in the last 5 doesn't change that.

Embiid's production is outstanding, well-ahead of most predictions, but he hasn't carried anywhere near the load for Kansas as Davis did for Kentucky, and Embiid doesn't crush whole teams on D like AD did.

Not sure where I or anybody else said he did, or what that has to do at all with the comparison that was posted. The point was that Embiid's production is excellent for a freshman college big when he's on the floor.

[Big_C_KU]

Davis was better offensively than he was able to display at UK his one season. Calipari ran his offense in the post more through Terrence Jones and was more perimeter oriented. Davis was still dominate though with extremely efficient numbers. It didn't seem till midway through his freshman season that Calipari realized Davis was good offensively as well.

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[crazy_me_87]

its nice to see Wiggins playing great right now

i think it could level out the "overhype" and "he sucks" discussion a bit

as i said the whole time.. he is an amazing prospect.. needs a lot of work but already has improved while playing.. i saw the first game of the year against Duke and now last game where he scored 29..

his handles look much safer.. better... his shot is pretty consistent wich is huge for a young athletic freak and he already has a nice running jumper/floater.. not every 18 year old kid has such moves

Embiid is still ahead of him but i believe he will stay another year

and Parker and Randle are coming down to earth.. (still doing fine but are no longer "better performing" than Wiggins)

so they are about even again in terms of production

and if thats the case i would give Wiggins the nod for athetism and ceiling

[CBB_Fan]

Davis's overall play is a significant upgrade over Embiid's, but Embiid arguably has the better peak play. I'd still want Davis's contributions and season, but I can see why Embiid could be more appealing to scouts. By peak, I mean the times where he seems to score every shot on offense and erase everything on the defensive end. Davis had a lot of that, don't get me wrong, but Embiid's ability to take over a game for a short period of time is incredible.

I don't see it. I mean Davis had some games where he just annihilated the comp...

23 pt, 10 reb, 5 blk (10-13 FG) - his first game
27 pt, 14 reb, 7 blk (10-12 FG)
28 pt, 11 reb, 5 blk (10-11 FG)
22 pt, 8 reb, 8 blk (9-10 FG)
22 pt, 12 reb, 6 blk (9-13 FG)

My point was that over the course of the season or over an entire game Davis was a better player. More consistently dominant, more able to stay on the floor. The type of play I'm referring to can be boiled down to a half or a few back-to-back possessions. Like the following against UTEP:

18:52 40-43 Joel Embiid Steal.
18:41 40-43 Andrew Wiggins missed Three Point Jumper.
18:41 40-43 Joel Embiid Offensive Rebound.
18:38 Foul on Cameron Bairstow. 40-43
18:38 40-43 Joel Embiid missed Free Throw.
18:38 40-43 Kansas Deadball Team Rebound.
18:38 40-44 Joel Embiid made Free Throw.
18:20 Alex Kirk Turnover. 40-44
18:20 40-44 Joel Embiid Steal.
18:05 40-46 Joel Embiid made Jumper. Assisted by Andrew Wiggins.
17:42 Cameron Bairstow missed Jumper. 40-46
17:42 Cleveland Thomas Offensive Rebound. 40-46
17:31 Cleveland Thomas missed Layup. 40-46
17:31 40-46 Joel Embiid Block.

[Brauer]

Let's not forget that Davis was all about defense in college and that his offense was raw but showed great potential.

[mattg]

Davis's overall play is a significant upgrade over Embiid's, but Embiid arguably has the better peak play. I'd still want Davis's contributions and season, but I can see why Embiid could be more appealing to scouts. By peak, I mean the times where he seems to score every shot on offense and erase everything on the defensive end. Davis had a lot of that, don't get me wrong, but Embiid's ability to take over a game for a short period of time is incredible.

I don't see it. I mean Davis had some games where he just annihilated the comp...

23 pt, 10 reb, 5 blk (10-13 FG) - his first game
27 pt, 14 reb, 7 blk (10-12 FG)
28 pt, 11 reb, 5 blk (10-11 FG)
22 pt, 8 reb, 8 blk (9-10 FG)
22 pt, 12 reb, 6 blk (9-13 FG)

My point was that over the course of the season or over an entire game Davis was a better player. More consistently dominant, more able to stay on the floor. The type of play I'm referring to can be boiled down to a half or a few back-to-back possessions. Like the following against UTEP:

18:52 40-43 Joel Embiid Steal.
18:41 40-43 Andrew Wiggins missed Three Point Jumper.
18:41 40-43 Joel Embiid Offensive Rebound.
18:38 Foul on Cameron Bairstow. 40-43
18:38 40-43 Joel Embiid missed Free Throw.
18:38 40-43 Kansas Deadball Team Rebound.
18:38 40-44 Joel Embiid made Free Throw.
18:20 Alex Kirk Turnover. 40-44
18:20 40-44 Joel Embiid Steal.
18:05 40-46 Joel Embiid made Jumper. Assisted by Andrew Wiggins.
17:42 Cameron Bairstow missed Jumper. 40-46
17:42 Cleveland Thomas Offensive Rebound. 40-46
17:31 Cleveland Thomas missed Layup. 40-46
17:31 40-46 Joel Embiid Block.

Because Davis never did anything like that either

[BUCKSWEATSHIRT]

I don't see it. I mean Davis had some games where he just annihilated the comp...

23 pt, 10 reb, 5 blk (10-13 FG) - his first game
27 pt, 14 reb, 7 blk (10-12 FG)
28 pt, 11 reb, 5 blk (10-11 FG)
22 pt, 8 reb, 8 blk (9-10 FG)
22 pt, 12 reb, 6 blk (9-13 FG)

My point was that over the course of the season or over an entire game Davis was a better player. More consistently dominant, more able to stay on the floor. The type of play I'm referring to can be boiled down to a half or a few back-to-back possessions. Like the following against UTEP:

18:52 40-43 Joel Embiid Steal.
18:41 40-43 Andrew Wiggins missed Three Point Jumper.
18:41 40-43 Joel Embiid Offensive Rebound.
18:38 Foul on Cameron Bairstow. 40-43
18:38 40-43 Joel Embiid missed Free Throw.
18:38 40-43 Kansas Deadball Team Rebound.
18:38 40-44 Joel Embiid made Free Throw.
18:20 Alex Kirk Turnover. 40-44
18:20 40-44 Joel Embiid Steal.
18:05 40-46 Joel Embiid made Jumper. Assisted by Andrew Wiggins.
17:42 Cameron Bairstow missed Jumper. 40-46
17:42 Cleveland Thomas Offensive Rebound. 40-46
17:31 Cleveland Thomas missed Layup. 40-46
17:31 40-46 Joel Embiid Block.

Because Davis never did anything like that either

He was saying that Joel Embiid wasn't on Davis' level

[Jazzfan12]

Not sure why there was so much hype over his last two games. He made a bunch of jumpers and contested close shots in those games and today he missed a bunch of jumpers and contested close shots. Just seems like those last couple games were luck that didn't really show much real skill improvement.

[Dr Positivity]

Yeah in his big games he still wasn't showing me what I wanted to see

[TheSuzerain]

He pretty much goes at KU goes.

Unless his jumper is falling, he's not going to excel offensively if things aren't flowing for the whole team.

And he really needs to stop jumping from so far away from the basket. He misses about 2 layups a game because of that.

[bigboi]

Straight up, Wiggins actually Kansas as a whole sucks against the zone. The last two games were played against teams, who used primarily man to man. Texas mostly played zone in this game and KU couldn't capitalize at all.

[noobcake]

Not sure why there was so much hype over his last two games. He made a bunch of jumpers and contested close shots in those games and today he missed a bunch of jumpers and contested close shots. Just seems like those last couple games were luck that didn't really show much real skill improvement.

For a player who has been hyped so much, Wiggins is the least skilled player I've seen. Every time he has a decent game, supports come out highlighting his nearly non-existent offensive skillset.

[Silver Man]

Yeah in his big games he still wasn't showing me what I wanted to see

Duke, Florida, Iowa state, Kansas state, Iowa state again Weren't big games ? Guess you learn something new everyday.

[sikma42]

Yeah in his big games he still wasn't showing me what I wanted to see

Duke, Florida, Iowa state, Kansas state, Iowa state again Weren't big games ? Guess you learn something new everyday.

I think he meant even when he was putting up numbers he wasn't doing things he wanted to see....

[bigboi]

Yeah in his big games he still wasn't showing me what I wanted to see

Duke, Florida, Iowa state, Kansas state, Iowa state again Weren't big games ? Guess you learn something new everyday.

I think he meant even when he was putting up numbers he wasn't doing things he wanted to see....

I don't understand what more he wanted to see. Wiggins defended well, shot the ball well, and penetrated well.

[BaunceyChillups]

Duke, Florida, Iowa state, Kansas state, Iowa state again Weren't big games ? Guess you learn something new everyday.

I think he meant even when he was putting up numbers he wasn't doing things he wanted to see....

I don't understand what more he wanted to see. Wiggins defended well, shot the ball well, and penetrated well.

Probably wanted to see more dynamic shot creation/ball-handling like his comps T-Mac and Paul George do. Wiggins is a role player.

[bigboi]

I think he meant even when he was putting up numbers he wasn't doing things he wanted to see....

I don't understand what more he wanted to see. Wiggins defended well, shot the ball well, and penetrated well.

Probably wanted to see more dynamic shot creation/ball-handling like his comps T-Mac and Paul George do. Wiggins is a role player.

Paul George and TMac's ball handling were actually not too good when first entering the league. Wiggins could get his handle to their level or even Durant's, who had terrible ball handling ability early in his career

[AgentZer0]

With today's news that Embiid is having surgery for a stress fracture in his foot, I think Wiggins just became a lock at #1, or at least he should be. He's only 19 and still loaded with athleticism and talent. His game looks like it just comes easy for him and most players like him end up having great careers. In this draft, I wouldn't take an injury-risk like Embiid #1 over Wiggins or Parker. I also wouldn't take Parker #1 because of his terrible defense. Wiggins has much more potential than Parker and if you're picking #1, you should pick the player than can have the best career. His effortless athleticism and smooth game is reminiscent of a young Tracy McGrady. Without a doubt, I'd take Wiggins #1.

I wrote a full, detailed scouting report on Wiggins with his strengths and weaknesses here: http://freeagentzero.com/2014/06/19/nba ... w-wiggins/

[HeartBreakKid]

I still have Parker over Wiggins, I actually think Parker has a higher ceiling than Wiggins.