Magic says Jim Buss is the problem (update: on Leno Pg. 8)

[Puff]

He sounds like your typical delusional fan that thinks having to rebuild doesn't apply to the lakers

or a person who knows what he is talking about, unlike some "delusional" idiots on this board who defend that joke of a coach Mike D.

the idiots are the ones that are still trying to focus on MDA this season as if the coach is going to change the fact that the talent on the court is the worst in the league. the coach this season is totally irrelevant to the lakers rebuilding and anyone harping on MDA right now is just dumb.

i think there's a big difference between defending MDA, which i don't think anyone actually goes out of their way t do, and simply pointing out the illogical frankly stupid criticisms that several of the same posters on here repeatedly make.

anyway, magic's comments are totally classless. publicly calling for someone to be fired is almost always classless.

How in the world can Magic Johnson make a legitimate comment on any coach?

As I remember he was horrific when given a chance to coach the Lakers. Oh that is right he did not have much talent on that roster, not his fault.

[ALL HAIL]

i think there's a big difference between defending MDA, which i don't think anyone actually goes out of their way to do ...

Really ... ???

The only reason D'Antoni is not a championship coach is Robert Horry decided to go Kung Fu Panda on Steve Nash in 2007. His offensive system would have a great validity if the Suns won the championship that was rightfully theirs that season.

The myth that D'Antoni does not care for defense also needs to stop, his Suns teams were above average to league average defensively ...

You're absolutely wrong "doc". You all may not realize it amidst the haze, but there are many who "go out of their way" to defend this dude.

To your point though Slav, that team was perfectly designed for D'Antoni, perfect in every way.

That team was a hair away, you're right, but that team was such a perfect storm Slav.

Do you think he can replicate that kind of success without freaks like Nash, Marion, and Stoudamire (absolutely perfect D'Antoni players)?

Do you think the Lakers commit to D'Antoni by going out of their way to draft players who fit his system (cuz that's what it will take)?

[Slava]

To your point though Slav, that team was perfectly designed for D'Antoni, perfect in every way.

That team was a hair away, you're right, but that team was such a perfect storm Slav.

Do you think he can replicate that kind of success without freaks like Nash, Marion, and Stoudamire (absolutely perfect D'Antoni players)?

Do you think the Lakers commit to D'Antoni by going out of their way to draft players who fit his system (cuz that's what it will take)?

That's a point worth arguing because the league as a whole adapted his offensive schemes since then. Kobe - Pau pick and rolls were bread and butter with an uptempo bench for our back to back championships, Popovich has gone away from his motion based offense and slow pace to higher pace since 2007 as well. Guys like Morey have an even taken it to the extreme with a lay up or 3 approach and Miami rode the small ball train to back to back rings as well.

Should the Lakers draft players who fit his system? Absolutely, because its easier to pick players that can run a system like this than a read and react offense. Point guard is the deepest position in the league now and pick and roll big men with an ability to protect the paint are also the most valuable commodity in the league.

Its also worth mentioning that the offense is fun to watch. If we had a healthy roster, we'd have had more games like the opening day win over the Clippers and the win in Houston but MDA has never seen favorable luck in his coaching career so far. The story of his life.

[Kilroy]

What's happening this season and last season is not entirely MDA's fault... Especially this season...

But MDA is not a championship caliber coach and not just because of what Horry did to Nash... That happened in game 4 of a 6 game series that they lost 4-2. And it was the Western Simi-finals... There was still a long way to go and the Spurs pretty much Waltzed to the Chip that season.

The only times he's smelled the finals was with Nash on those Suns teams, and the only time he was really close was against Dallas in 06. That was at least a 6 game series.

Pop out-coached MDA (As well as most of the league) regularly in the post season.

To me it's more about the style of play he's committed to rather than his coaching ability if you can separate the 2. His run and gun style of play works great in the regular season, but in the post season, when defense tightens up and teams force running teams into half-court sets, you need a really special roster to compete if you're committed to small ball and running... You really need a team that can shoot lights out from just about all positions. Which is what MDA had with his 60win teams... And he also had Nash who was one of the few run and gun guards who could be brilliant in the half court too.

MDA has had great players but his only real success came riding Nash's greatness and a special roster they built around Nash in PHO... It's really not that great a resume if you hold it up to the light.

I understand that Dr Buss really wanted to get back to a faster paced, more glitzy offense... And I also understood that he and Phil didn't always see eye to eye... And I don't think Jim Buss made the MDA decision without his dad's say.

Would I have loved to see Phil come back? Yes. Do I understand why the Lakers went another direction? Also Yes.

And given the available coaches at the time we hired MDA, I can even understand why we went with him...

But I don't believe MDA is a championship coach, and I believe that we are going to have to go in another direction if we want to contend.

Truly great coaches inspire invincibility in their teams... When we hired Phil, the first time, that was immediately apparent... It was the first time I actually thought a coach at the professional level mattered a whole lot actually. Pop clearly has the same aura around him. So did Red, etc...

Does every championship team need an elite coach? No... For example, I don't believe the Heat really need a good coach and I believe Spoelstra is fairly overrated... I think the championship aura of that team comes directly from Riley and that's what inspires those guys.

But a great coach can turn a team of great individual players into a juggernaut like Phil did for us...

MDA isn't that guy IMO.

Does that make Magic right for what he said? Not really... But it doesn't make him an idiot for saying it either.

The fact remains that a better coach might make us a better team, but there isn't a coach in the world that could make this team a contender. We can cry about it all we want but Kobe's old, and without him, even if we had kept CP3 and Howard, we still wouldn't win it all even if we did have Phil. But with just Kobe.... We need to rebuild. There's no debating it... And having Phil wouldn't have mattered... Especially since Phil probably would have re-retired if he was left with this team.

[ArC_man]

He sounds like your typical delusional fan that thinks having to rebuild doesn't apply to the lakers

or a person who knows what he is talking about, unlike some "delusional" idiots on this board who defend that joke of a coach Mike D.

No one's defending Pringles, we all know he's the first one out as soon as we feel like we can start winning again. Right now we don't have the guns so why bother paying another coach when half of the roster will be gone next year?

[Puff]

If D'Antoni is so poor of a Coach why is his record in the playoffs versus Phil Jackson 2 and 0.

They met up in 2005/2006 - MDA beats Phil 4 to 3 (Amare was out with Microfracture surgery)
Again in 2006/2007 - MDA beats Phil 4 to 1 (With virtually no bench at all - check out the Suns roster at Basketball Reference if you don't believe it)

Thus MDA is undefeated against a Phil Jackson coached team in the playoffs, when it matters most.

Speed ball beat the Triangle not once but twice.

How in the world did that happen?

How many playoff victories did Magic Jackson ever coach?

[Michael Lucky]

One more thing to keep in mind. Magic has a rooting interest in seeing the Lakers do bad now that he's part owner of the Dodgers.

[Kilroy]

If D'Antoni is so poor of a Coach why is his record in the playoffs versus Phil Jackson 2 and 0.

They met up in 2005/2006 - MDA beats Phil 4 to 3 (Amare was out with Microfracture surgery)
Again in 2006/2007 - MDA beats Phil 4 to 1 (With virtually no bench at all - check out the Suns roster at Basketball Reference if you don't believe it)

Thus MDA is undefeated against a Phil Jackson coached team in the playoffs, when it matters most.

Speed ball beat the Triangle not once but twice.

How in the world did that happen?

How many playoff victories did Magic Jackson ever coach?

C'mon man... While you're looking at BBall Ref for Suns stats for those season, at least take a peak at the Lakers teams they faced... Kwame Brown ring any bells for you?

Also Lamar Odom was the second best player on those teams... And I believe he was hurt at least for one of those series.
It wasn't even the Triangle, it was Kobe Iso ball all game... You knew exactly what was going to happen every time down the court... And they still went to 7 games in '06...

Hardly a ringing endorsement for the superiority of MDA over Phil

[LAKESHOW]

If D'Antoni is so poor of a Coach why is his record in the playoffs versus Phil Jackson 2 and 0.

If you like Dantoni or not, that's one thing. But please. PLEEEZE. Do not compare him with Phil Jackson. That is a losing proposition. Cant win. Fail. The LAKER world is a big world. And only 1 thing counts in that world. BLING-BLING!

[tenten]

lol at the MDA discussions. I think he's a good coach, but it just don't fit the Lakers personnel and style.
There is obvious disconnect between coaching staff and front office. Why would you sign Kaman when MDA will not play two big man. He's probably the only coach that plays Pau at center. Why have 4 centers on the roster still?

The issue with MDA on the Lakers is that he tries too hard to fit the team into his system. This only works in teams when the coach is also the GM. Either way, if he comes back next year, I won't be watching the Lakers. Yeah, I remember he told us fans to "find another team".

[TonyMontana]

If D'Antoni is so poor of a Coach why is his record in the playoffs versus Phil Jackson 2 and 0.

They met up in 2005/2006 - MDA beats Phil 4 to 3 (Amare was out with Microfracture surgery)
Again in 2006/2007 - MDA beats Phil 4 to 1 (With virtually no bench at all - check out the Suns roster at Basketball Reference if you don't believe it)

Thus MDA is undefeated against a Phil Jackson coached team in the playoffs, when it matters most.

Speed ball beat the Triangle not once but twice.

How in the world did that happen?

LMAOOO!!! Stop Puffing Puff!!

[EArl]

If D'Antoni is so poor of a Coach why is his record in the playoffs versus Phil Jackson 2 and 0.

They met up in 2005/2006 - MDA beats Phil 4 to 3 (Amare was out with Microfracture surgery)
Again in 2006/2007 - MDA beats Phil 4 to 1 (With virtually no bench at all - check out the Suns roster at Basketball Reference if you don't believe it)

Thus MDA is undefeated against a Phil Jackson coached team in the playoffs, when it matters most.

Speed ball beat the Triangle not once but twice.

How in the world did that happen?

How many playoff victories did Magic Jackson ever coach?

[TonyMontana]

If D'Antoni is so poor of a Coach why is his record in the playoffs versus Phil Jackson 2 and 0.

They met up in 2005/2006 - MDA beats Phil 4 to 3 (Amare was out with Microfracture surgery)
Again in 2006/2007 - MDA beats Phil 4 to 1 (With virtually no bench at all - check out the Suns roster at Basketball Reference if you don't believe it)

Thus MDA is undefeated against a Phil Jackson coached team in the playoffs, when it matters most.

Speed ball beat the Triangle not once but twice.

How in the world did that happen?

How many playoff victories did Magic Jackson ever coach?

I want to Puff some of whats Puffs Puffing!! Lollll

[myersia]

What's happening this season and last season is not entirely MDA's fault... Especially this season...

But MDA is not a championship caliber coach and not just because of what Horry did to Nash... That happened in game 4 of a 6 game series that they lost 4-2. And it was the Western Simi-finals... There was still a long way to go and the Spurs pretty much Waltzed to the Chip that season.

The only times he's smelled the finals was with Nash on those Suns teams, and the only time he was really close was against Dallas in 06. That was at least a 6 game series.

Pop out-coached MDA (As well as most of the league) regularly in the post season.

To me it's more about the style of play he's committed to rather than his coaching ability if you can separate the 2. His run and gun style of play works great in the regular season, but in the post season, when defense tightens up and teams force running teams into half-court sets, you need a really special roster to compete if you're committed to small ball and running... You really need a team that can shoot lights out from just about all positions. Which is what MDA had with his 60win teams... And he also had Nash who was one of the few run and gun guards who could be brilliant in the half court too.

MDA has had great players but his only real success came riding Nash's greatness and a special roster they built around Nash in PHO... It's really not that great a resume if you hold it up to the light.

I understand that Dr Buss really wanted to get back to a faster paced, more glitzy offense... And I also understood that he and Phil didn't always see eye to eye... And I don't think Jim Buss made the MDA decision without his dad's say.

Would I have loved to see Phil come back? Yes. Do I understand why the Lakers went another direction? Also Yes.

And given the available coaches at the time we hired MDA, I can even understand why we went with him...

But I don't believe MDA is a championship coach, and I believe that we are going to have to go in another direction if we want to contend.

Truly great coaches inspire invincibility in their teams... When we hired Phil, the first time, that was immediately apparent... It was the first time I actually thought a coach at the professional level mattered a whole lot actually. Pop clearly has the same aura around him. So did Red, etc...

Does every championship team need an elite coach? No... For example, I don't believe the Heat really need a good coach and I believe Spoelstra is fairly overrated... I think the championship aura of that team comes directly from Riley and that's what inspires those guys.

But a great coach can turn a team of great individual players into a juggernaut like Phil did for us...

MDA isn't that guy IMO.

Does that make Magic right for what he said? Not really... But it doesn't make him an idiot for saying it either.

The fact remains that a better coach might make us a better team, but there isn't a coach in the world that could make this team a contender. We can cry about it all we want but Kobe's old, and without him, even if we had kept CP3 and Howard, we still wouldn't win it all even if we did have Phil. But with just Kobe.... We need to rebuild. There's no debating it... And having Phil wouldn't have mattered... Especially since Phil probably would have re-retired if he was left with this team.

We need to close this thread on this comment alone. Well said. Agree 100%.

[myersia]

He sounds like your typical delusional fan that thinks having to rebuild doesn't apply to the lakers

or a person who knows what he is talking about, unlike some "delusional" idiots on this board who defend that joke of a coach Mike D.

the idiots are the ones that are still trying to focus on MDA this season as if the coach is going to change the fact that the talent on the court is the worst in the league. the coach this season is totally irrelevant to the lakers rebuilding and anyone harping on MDA right now is just dumb.

i think there's a big difference between defending MDA, which i don't think anyone actually goes out of their way t do, and simply pointing out the illogical frankly stupid criticisms that several of the same posters on here repeatedly make.

anyway, magic's comments are totally classless. publicly calling for someone to be fired is almost always classless.

I'll say this one last time. Is MDA to blame for the lakers this season? No. However, do we need to go into a new direction if we want to win a championship? YES! YES! YES! YES! MDA has to go if we are planning on winning with talent (if we get any soon lol).

[myersia]

Overall I think we need to forget about Jim Buss. Forget about MDA for now and find something new to discuss. This season should have been about the LAKERS. MDA and Jim Buss talk is getting old. I hope Nash, Kobe, Henry, and Farmar bring some excitement back to the team. This has been a horrible season. Let's try and end on a positive note fellas and remember we are all fans. Stop the hate. At this point let's all talk NBA Lottery, NBA Draft, and free agency. This season is over.

[tenten]

We can move on from Jim Buss when MDA is fired.

It doesn't matter what great players we bring in. If he doesn't fit the stupid MDA system, he won't get minutes or being used properly. We can have all 5 starters putting up allstar numbers, but it only helps fantasy teams. I'm tired of seeing Pau getting 20/10, Marshall getting crazy amount of assists, the team rains 3's and scores over 110, yet they still LOSE giving up 120 points.

MDA is not only the problem of this team, he's the problem of the NBA. I hope that he never gets to coach again in the NBA. All I remember about MDA is his stupid face when the Suns came back to beat us 4-3 in that playoff series when Kobe hit the game winner in game 5 to give us a 3-2 lead.

[crazyeights]

We're so far away from winning a championship roster-wise, that debating whether MDA's merits as a championship-caliber coach is a waste of time, TBH.

[leeprettyp]

lol man its obvious people here undervalue the importance of a coach and his philosophy. The change needs to first start with getting Dantoni out of here.

[crazyeights]

lol man its obvious people here undervalue the importance of a coach and his philosophy. The change needs to first start with getting Dantoni out of here.

Okay fire him. right now. Who do you hire?