TonyMontana wrote:I was going to respond to this thread after work but I guess not. Again nothing personal to you or anyone else. We're only talking B.Ball on here.
Kilroy wrote: They let the contracts expire of several staff members because it was going to be a lockout season.
Okay, but did the lockout ever happen? No. it didn't happen.
http://articles.latimes.com/2011/feb/14 ... r-20110215Time Warner Cable, Lakers strike 20-year TV deal
The agreement, a huge blow to current rights-holders Fox Sports West and KCAL-TV, calls for the creation of two new regional sports channels and will start with the 2012-13 season.
February 14, 2011
So you just struck a huge multi BILLION dollar deal with T.W and not even FOUR months later you fire your best Asst G.M that's been loyal to you and your Org. for over two decades and twenty plus of your scouts etc. Because your afraid of an NBA lockout. Which again never happened.
Also what other teams went and cleaned house because of fears that an NBA lockout was going to happen?
No other team except the Lakers.
I'm not sure what you are talking about... The lockout happened... And now we have a new CBA. The season almost didn't happen.
And the Lakers weren't the only team to trim staff at that time.
TonyMontana wrote:Ronnie Lester speaks out as Lakers cut longtime employees
As the Lakers let many of the longtime staff go during the NBA lockout, Ronnie Lester, the Lakers' departing assistant general manager, says, 'great organizations don't treat their personnel like they've done.'
Lester said Jim Buss, the vice president of player personnel and son of owner Jerry Buss, and his siblings are making more decisions and have increased roles.
Lester said Lakers General Manager Mitch Kupchak wants him to return, but there is resistance inside the organization
July 22, 2011
So Mitch wanted him to stay but Jim wanted him gone. Just like Mitch wanted Phil and told him its 95% he will be back and then Jim signed MDA. So is it wrong what Magic said about Jim and Mitch not having the balls to make the major decisions when it comes to this team?
Kilroy wrote:Dr Buss was as much behind that decision as Jim Buss.
He was around at that time. Whether or not he was a part of it was still unknown.
Don't be selective in your quotes...
"Mitch wants to bring me back, but he can't get the Busses [Jerry and Jim] to agree to bring me back," Lester said.
Dr Buss was still very much involved... Also worth pointing out Lester was going through a divorce at the time as well... Perhaps there's more to the story than just he and the Lakers. Maybe he had personal issues going on as well...
Also, this is Lester saying Mitch wanted him back... Not Mitch. It's an important distinction... I've never heard Mitch say much of anything about Lester since he was let go.
Point is, people constantly praise Dr Buss and Mitch for their skill and intelligence in running this org... They talk about trusting them... Maybe you should trust that letting Lester go was the right decision at the time...
TonyMontana wrote:Kilroy wrote: What has Jim Buss tried to erase from Phil?
Everything that had to do with Phil. He cleaned house. Even when Phil was the head coach he always showed his displeasure about Phil dating his sister while being the coach of the Lakers. After Buss passed on Jim wanted to start his own legacy like everybody that inherits a great fortune etc. Jim came in and cleaned house.
We all know that.
Kilroy wrote: They brought in a new head coach... Why would they keep the old Coach's staff? That said, didn't Brown keep a couple of them around and MDA didn't replace Brown's staff immediately either...
I agree, as far as the coaching staff, but firing Lester and all the scouts and trainers were no part of the coaching staff, yet you used the NBA lockout for an excuse and I already addressed that earlier.
No you don't... You couldn't possibly know that because there's no proof of that whatsoever. Because according to everyone at the Lakers org, Dr Buss was still involved in decision making until shortly before his death. So even if there was a house cleaning, which there wasn't, you can't attribute that to Jim.
Jim showed displeasure that Phil dated his sister for years without proposing, and acting like he had no intention whatsoever of ever doing so... He talked about this after the engagement... That he and his dad were glad Phil finally popped the question...
But that's personal... Professionally, Phil could be an ass... West couldn't deal with him... He was said to come into Lakers HQ and not even say hi to anyone on the way to his office. Rumors were that Phil didn't want to talk to anyone until it came time to talk about his contract. And he had the same problems in Chicago.
Phil is notoriously arrogant, dismissive, self righteous, and aloof... This has a slight tendency to rub the people who pay him millions of dollars the wrong way. Credit the Lakers for seeing past that and putting up with it longer than the Bulls.
TonyMontana wrote:Kilroy wrote:Even then, Jim has said Phil is like a brother to him... Brothers don't always get along, especially Brothers in Law, but Phil's still part of the lakers...
Noooooooooooooo. They say there is three parts to a story. One is Jims and then there is Phils and then there is the truth. Phil was never ever close with Jim. He has said that in many many interviews that he considers Jim as an associate simply because he is Jeannies brother. Nothing more than that.
Everybody trashed Jim Buss in public, including Phil, Magic, His own sister, His younger sister, Shaw, Lester and so many JVG, Barkley, Shaq etc etc. I just posted 5 names of the top brass from the Lakers that have givin their heart and soul to this franchise. Its not like we are talking about a bunch of nobodies.
I do realize you hate his sister and Magic but come on man. Okay so Jeanie is a nobody, Magic wants attention and he is a hypocrite. What about Shaw, What about Lester?
Again I agree there are more than one side to the story... I don't think the Hate Jimmy Camp is taking any of them into account... They're just regurgitating nonsense they've picked up on the interwebz...
I don't hate Jeanie... I don't hate any of them... In fact I hate them all less than you... I think they're doing a fine job and there's no evidence any of them are running the team I love into the ground...
I also don't understand the need some of you have to blame Jim for a situation that was inevitable and he didn't have a lot of control over.
Magic owns a (small part of a) team in the same building now... I don't think he wants attention, I think he wants to own the Lakers. And as much as I love him as the Basketball player, he's been speaking out of both sides of his mouth for years and courting public opinion longer than that.
TonyMontana wrote:Dude we can go back and forth with this, but here Im sure we can come to a conclusion.
If Buss actually cares and if he wants the best for this franchise. Why not bring in Phil as his operations manager or a consultant, same with Magic? Magic has offered it. Phil has said he does have interest. Jeanie has recommended it. Then why doesn't he do it? You know why then it all goes back to Phil Jeannie and Magic and Jim being incompetent and not able to run this franchise. So basically Jimmy will run us down to the ground before his ego allows him to say okay I @#$%ed up.
Phil has butt heads with Mitch... Hiring him would subvert some of Mitch's authority and freedom... And for what? What do you think Phil would bring to the table that would be worth subjugating some of Mitch's strength?
Phil's already a consultant... Presumably on coaching issues... Honestly, that's the only place I see for him in the Lakers org... We could give him a permanent title as a feel-good gesture, but Phil spends as much time away from basketball as possible... Could you see him breaking out advanced stats and talking about various draft prospects or player development? He didn't do it as a coach, why would he do it as an exec...
And Magic? Really? I love him and would love to see him in some position with the Lakers but nothing he's said has struck me as very insightful about the game and he was abysmal as a coach.
That said, I'd love him back in some manner, but I hope I'm not the only one that shivers at the thought of him being in the war-room on draft night or manning phones at the trade deadline.
But closing thought... You listed a handful of perceived failings as proof that Jim Buss and Jim Buss alone is going to "run us down to the ground before his ego allows him to say okay I @#$%ed up."
Ok... For the sake of argument, I'll let you have those points...
The Lester thing happened in the summer of 2011...
What about all the other things that happened since then?
What about CP3... Bynum for Howard... Hell Nash was a top PG the season before we got him... What about getting Young, Farmar, and Kaman for nothing... What about structuring all our contracts so they ended this season so we could have some cap space for once?
Who gets credit for that?
Kobe, Pau and Nash getting old and the NBA killing the CP3 deal had way more to do with any bad situation the Lakers are in right now than Jim Buss.
He just inherited an inevitable rebuild era from his dad.
Never have rice at Hanzo's house...
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