2014 Draft Thread

[INFORMER-93]

You just described Marion.
Marion had below avg handles at the SF position thats what Gordon will be. But a good defender because of his athletic ability and strong body. He is a unselfish player just like Marion. He can't shoot consistently neither can Marion. Its just a player I can compare him to no way hes a Pro PF though. Hes a SF

No, I didn't. Shawn Marion was a much more fluid athlete. And Marion had a terrific touch, he just lack range. Gordon has shown any touch at all, around the basket or mid-range, and especially not from the free throw line. What's more is that Marion had scoring instincts. Gordon does not. Marion also was a dominant rebounder in college. Gordon, to this point, is not.

Gordon is a good defender though.

[INFORMER-93]

Well in that case, Battier was drafted really high, and I think that's a pretty good comp in that he is a smart player. You remember a few years back when the studies had been done and that teams were always much better with Battier on the floor even though it didn't really show up in the box scores? That's kind of how I feel about Gordon.

Well first, that's sort of my point. If teams knew Shane Battier would never be more than a role player, he wouldn't have been drafted that high. Secondly, Battier wouldn't have been such a plus on the court without that outside jumper. A jumper he had in college and Gordon does not have.

[bwgood77]

Well in that case, Battier was drafted really high, and I think that's a pretty good comp in that he is a smart player. You remember a few years back when the studies had been done and that teams were always much better with Battier on the floor even though it didn't really show up in the box scores? That's kind of how I feel about Gordon.

Well first, that's sort of my point. If teams knew Shane Battier would never be more than a role player, he wouldn't have been drafted that high. Secondly, Battier wouldn't have been such a plus on the court without that outside jumper. A jumper he had in college and Gordon does not have.

Personally, I've wondered if Gordon has been rated too high as well. For me, he is no more important than any of the other starters on the AZ team, but then again he is the youngest. He does seem to be very smart to me, and the type of guy that will work hard to improve and will always have a high motor. They raved about him when he played for Team USA (or whatever it was) and he was MVP I believe, so that's gotta say something.

To me, I think some guys who are sophomores and juniors (or even seniors) are sometimes overlooked WAY too much. I mean look at Lillard. The guy came in and contributed immediately. You have these guys (if they are good) for 8-9 years, unless they stick with you for their entire career, and drafting a guy that is 21 to me, when he can contribute immediately, and likely peak at age 28, but be a smarter player (or better shooter) after that even though his physical abilities may start to decline, seems like a better deal to me than a guy who is so raw he won't even really contribute until year 3 and then you wonder if you should keep him for a max deal or whatever and then may only have him for 4-5 years more, before he may bolt...or he may never develop into his perceived upside.

Another great example is Duncan.

[INFORMER-93]

Personally, I've wondered if Gordon has been rated too high as well. For me, he is no more important than any of the other starters on the AZ team, but then again he is the youngest. He does seem to be very smart to me, and the type of guy that will work hard to improve and will always have a high motor. They raved about him when he played for Team USA (or whatever it was) and he was MVP I believe, so that's gotta say something.

That was the Nike Hoop Summit. and he thrived in that setting because he played harder than everyone, and I mean EVERYONE. Wiggins was in his classic coast mode, while Americans like Andrew Harrison and Jabari Parker were pushing the ball down the throats of the world team. So most of Gordon's offense came from fast breaks, offensive rebounds, and cutting to the basket to take advantage of the abysmal team defense.

And I'm not trying to take anything away from him. I'm just saying if someone is going to point to that performance as a case to rate him as a lottery-grade prospect, he or she needs to understand the context that led to Gordon putting up those numbers.

[INFORMER-93]

Right now, I feel like I could make a better case for Rondae Hollis-Jefferson than Aaron Gordon. Both are incredibly raw, BUT, I can point to RHJ and identify a pro level skill: his ability to get to the basket. He just has a nose for seeing angles, and using his combination of strength, first step, and leaping ability to attack the rim. He already has pro level physical attributes for the wing position. And while he has the same perimeter shooting deficiencies as Gordon, I have a little more hope for him because he can at least hit FTs in the 60 percentile.

[bwgood77]

Personally, I've wondered if Gordon has been rated too high as well. For me, he is no more important than any of the other starters on the AZ team, but then again he is the youngest. He does seem to be very smart to me, and the type of guy that will work hard to improve and will always have a high motor. They raved about him when he played for Team USA (or whatever it was) and he was MVP I believe, so that's gotta say something.

That was the Nike Hoop Summit. and he thrived in that setting because he played harder than everyone, and I mean EVERYONE. Wiggins was in his classic coast mode, while Americans like Andrew Harrison and Jabari Parker were pushing the ball down the throats of the world team. So most of Gordon's offense came from fast breaks, offensive rebounds, and cutting to the basket to take advantage of the abysmal team defense.

And I'm not trying to take anything away from him. I'm just saying if someone is going to point to that performance as a case to rate him as a lottery-grade prospect, he or she needs to understand the context that led to Gordon putting up those numbers.

I'll be interested to see him tomorrow against Oregon as he moves to the 4. Personally I don't think I'd take him ahead of guys like Hood or McDermott, but just trying to answer your question as to why he's rated highly.

[INFORMER-93]

Tomorrow? The game was tonight. I just DVRed it.

[bwgood77]

Tomorrow? The game was tonight. I just DVRed it.

I know. I just realized that. I had a brain fart...just got a text about it. Well I see by the box score that RHJ looked great and AG not so good, especially from the line.

I wonder if there is a way to watch the last 5 minutes or so.

[INFORMER-93]

You should be able to watch it on WatchESPN/ESPN3.

[MrMiyagi]

Aaron Gordon didn't have a good game on the stat sheet, but this is actually a good game for him tonight. He didn't really force anything and was presented with 2 wide open 3 point opportunities and tried to get to the rim instead. I've been saying that he's fallen in love with being out on the perimeter and needed to get more involved inside and he did that tonight. Sometimes you've got to take a few steps back to move forward.

Still needs to work on those free throws, but I think he's maturing and learning how to play within his ability now that he's not doing so hot.

[In2ition]

Gordon has a very good handle. It's not evident all the time, but it's better than Marion's was. He might not have the scoring instincts that Marion had, but he's a young player who doesn't even turn 19 until September. His shot mechanics aren't horrible, but he's way too mechanical right now. He really needs to work with someone that knows what they are doing in fixing his shot. I love his bounce, second jump, his feel for the game that he shows on both ends, his work ethic and his consistent and constant motor. You can also tell that he loves the game. He is so much of a tweener right now, that he is way better served to work on his skills to be a SF in the NBA, than an undersized PF.

I also like RHJ, but his bball IQ is nowhere near ready for the NBA. I agree that he has NBA ready skills and athleticism, but it would be harmful for him to come out after this year. If he figures things out, learns the game better he could end up being one of the very best of this freshman class. He does some things on the floor athletically that are truly amazing. I would love to see Gordon, RHJ and almost every other freshman come back to the school for at least one more year. I think it would help them in the long run, and allow them to have a bigger impact on the team that drafts them when they come in as a rookie. It would help college basketball, the NBA and basketball in general to make them stay three years and mature, but I also think that the NCAA needs to lighten up on the restrictions that they place on college coaches while working with the players in the off-season.

[INFORMER-93]

It would help college basketball, the NBA and basketball in general to make them stay three years and mature, but I also think that the NCAA needs to lighten up on the restrictions that they place on college coaches while working with the players in the off-season.

Interesting. It is getting disturbing how long it is taking so many drafted players to actually be able to make an impact on the NBA level. And really, it isn't just a matter of spending more time in school. Marcus Morris spent 3 years in school and was completely clueless in his rookie season. Markieff was better, but it has still taken him way too long to actually be a productive, solid player. Something is wrong with the system, and the fix isn't as simple as "make them stay in school longer."

[In2ition]

It would help college basketball, the NBA and basketball in general to make them stay three years and mature, but I also think that the NCAA needs to lighten up on the restrictions that they place on college coaches while working with the players in the off-season.

Interesting. It is getting disturbing how long it is taking so many drafted players to actually be able to make an impact on the NBA level. And really, it isn't just a matter of spending more time in school. Marcus Morris spent 3 years in school and was completely clueless in his rookie season. Markieff was better, but it has still taken him way too long to actually be a productive, solid player. Something is wrong with the system, and the fix isn't as simple as "make them stay in school longer."

This is true. There isn't any one magic bullet to help. College coaches are blaming HS coaches for not teaching fundamentals. HS coaches are blaming AAU/Club coaches for introducing hero ball, bad habits and inflating egos. AAU/Club coaches are upset with HS coaches for trying to discourage kids to seek competition and forcing kids to be in a "system" that doesn't develop their game. I even see it down to the elementary and middle school levels(my kids are still pretty young) to where there isn't any coaching or school support for kids to learn and grow their game. Schools don't see the benefit of funding sports at young ages. Youth leagues have parents coaching that shouldn't be and turn off half the kids because of their attitudes toward coaching kids and focus on the wrong things when coaching. Ect.

[Bazz]

You just described Marion.
Marion had below avg handles at the SF position thats what Gordon will be. But a good defender because of his athletic ability and strong body. He is a unselfish player just like Marion. He can't shoot consistently neither can Marion. Its just a player I can compare him to no way hes a Pro PF though. Hes a SF

No, I didn't. Shawn Marion was a much more fluid athlete. And Marion had a terrific touch, he just lack range. Gordon has shown any touch at all, around the basket or mid-range, and especially not from the free throw line. What's more is that Marion had scoring instincts. Gordon does not. Marion also was a dominant rebounder in college. Gordon, to this point, is not.

Gordon is a good defender though.

How about Josh Smith (minus the knucklehead) as a comp for Aaron Gordon?

[INFORMER-93]

Still doesn't mesh because Smith was a scorer in high school. Gordon really is an athletic (minus the range) version of Shane Battier.

[TOO]

Wouldnt MKG be a more appropriate comparison?

[INFORMER-93]

Sure. MKG is one of the main reasons why I think GMs need to be careful when it comes to Gordon. A lot of the things said about MKG are said about Gordon. I loved MKG as a prospect coming out, but he hasn't been able to do anything so far. I think Charlotte may be a bad fit for him, but he has to own a least some of his failure to date.

[carey]

Wouldnt MKG be a more appropriate comparison?

Not really. MKG was a phenomenal finisher. I'm not sure what Gordon is or what he does well at this point. He seems to have great athleticism, o.k. handles, etc, but doesn't seem to finish well, doesn't shoot well, rebounds o.k. I guess... defense seems to be his calling card, but nothing about his game says top 10 pick to me right now. I went there and I'm a gigantic UofA homer, and still I don't really get the Gordon love just yet.

[INFORMER-93]

MGK is more appropriate than Shawn Marion or Josh Smith.

[Bazz]

Still doesn't mesh because Smith was a scorer in high school. Gordon really is an athletic (minus the range) version of Shane Battier.

Smith averaged 22 points per game, eight rebounds, three steals, four assists and six blocks per game in his senior year. Gordon averaged 21.6 points, 15.7 rebounds, 3.3 blocks and 2.1 assists per game his senior year (per wiki).

Either way, I should have said projection instead of comp. I could see Aaron Gordon getting his points in a very similar way to Smith in the NBA. Play him at the 4, he'll score in transition, on putbacks, with off the ball movement, etc. Neither shoots very well. They're very comparable in size (unlike MKG), athleticism and passing ability. Smith can score a little with his back to the basket, but when he came into the league his post-up game was very rudimentary (it's still mostly back down, back down, back down, half-hook) and Gordon can develop something similar.

MKG is too small to play the four, and his lack of shooting or ability to create hurt more on the wing.