Best player in the game.LBJ or KD?

[TankCommander]

So LeBron has had several seasons above 30 on PER

True but Durant's PER/AP48 combo is arguably better then any LBJ season.

two time champion

Team award.
KD beasted in the 2012 Finals and that series could have easily gone the other way.
People forget how close that series actually was.

4 times MVP

Subjective media given award. Plus Durant has multiple #2 finishes.

2 times finals MVP

Lebron has had more chances at it and KD has had one dominant Finals performance (in many less tries then it took Lebron to have one).

crazy ts% and all of a sudden KD goes on a crazy (and awesome!) streak of games and he's the best player

I wouldn't call it a streak considering more then half the season has been played.
Also I never felt the gap between Lebron & Durant was very big so with Durant improving this year and with Lebron taking the peddle off the gas it isn't surprising that some people are questioning who the best player in the game is.

Some posters here just lack respect for the King.

Could say the same thing for Durant (for those who think Lebron has always been 10 steps ahead of KD).

LeBron has to do ten times more than any other player to get the same amount of recognition on RealGM.

I actually feel Lebron gets overrated in general but also on RGM mainly because now that he has won a Ring or two people are quick to forget all the playoff elimination series he bombed in (2013 included despite the win).

Lebron easily beasted on Durant in the 2012 finals and was just a physical force but Durant was much younger and has improved by a huge amount since then (Lebron was 28-10-7 on 47% shooting and Durant was 30-6-2 on 55 but was mostly just scoring not contributing to as many areas as Lebron. That series just proved how bad of a matchup the thunder were and how they collasped in the last 4 games in the 4th.

Outside of the 2011 finals and the last 2 games of 2010 boston series where has Lebron struggled? He has the highest ppg in elimination games and had a amazing run in the nba finals game 6 (carried that team back in the 4th before 2 bad turnovers) and a unreal game 7.

Durant is a great player and you dont have to try to (unjustly) tear down Lebron's achievements to big up Durant.

[HeartBreakKid]

If Lebron bombed in the 2013 elimination games then how did they win? Was it Shane Battier carrying them?

[E-Balla]

KD this year > Lebron last season and this season. I'm going with KD.

[Quotatious]

KD this year > Lebron last season and this season. I'm going with KD.

No way. It'd basically mean that current Durant is playing better than peak LeBron. I'd say that 2009, 2010, 2012 and 2013 LBJ is better than current KD. 2012/2013 firmly so, and 2009/2010 slighly. Durant is better than any other version of LeBron though, including 2008 and 2011.

[rcontador]

KD this year > Lebron last season and this season. I'm going with KD.

No way. It'd basically mean that current Durant is playing better than peak LeBron. I'd say that 2009, 2010, 2012 and 2013 LBJ is better than current KD. 2012/2013 firmly so, and 2009/2010 slighly. Durant is better than any other version of LeBron though, including 2008 and 2011.

This may be true... but I don't see the justification for it in the evidence we've got.

Everything about Durant's season this year, especially the tremendous performance of the Thunder, as a team, without Westbrook, indicates that he's on peak Lebron's level.

[whitehops]

LeBron has visibly and noticeably picked up the effort ever since the OKC game, he's been much more aggressive offensively and much more active defensively. at the end of the season we're probably gonna look back and laugh at how absurd we were to leapfrog Durant over LeBron just for outplaying him in the first half of the season.

[Quotatious]

This may be true... but I don't see the justification for it in the evidence we've got.

Everything about Durant's season this year, especially the tremendous performance of the Thunder, as a team, without Westbrook, indicates that he's on peak Lebron's level.

LeBron did the same job, leading a comparable supporting cast to 66 wins in 2009. Durant is just a better scorer. LeBron is a better playmaker and defender, and his edge in these two areas is bigger than Durant's edge in terms of his scoring. Well, KD is a much better shooter, but that's part of scoring, so LeBron's superior driving and finishing ability makes up for Durant's superior outside shooting, in a pretty large part.

[E-Balla]

KD this year > Lebron last season and this season. I'm going with KD.

No way. It'd basically mean that current Durant is playing better than peak LeBron. I'd say that 2009, 2010, 2012 and 2013 LBJ is better than current KD. 2012/2013 firmly so, and 2009/2010 slighly. Durant is better than any other version of LeBron though, including 2008 and 2011.

On what planet was Lebron last year peak Lebron? Your saying last year's Lebron that was shut down by Boris Diaw is better than scorch the world 09 Lebron or make OKC look like crap Lebron?

[JordansBulls]

So LeBron has had several seasons above 30 on PER, has been a scoring champ, forward with most APG of all time, two time champion, 4 times MVP, 2 times finals MVP, crazy ts% and all of a sudden KD goes on a crazy (and awesome!) streak of games and he's the best player?

Some posters here just lack respect for the King. It's always the same ones going against him, putting him out of top 10 list of all time, now below KD, etc. LeBron has to do ten times more than any other player to get the same amount of recognition on RealGM.

KD is the front-runner for MVP this season and if it ended today and I voted, I would vote for him. But he needs to do more to be ahead of the B2B champion, MVP and Finals MVP to be considered the best player in the league.

How much credit should someone who is the best in the league get if they go to join forces with a guy who won a title as the man in there prime? How much credit would you give someone like KG for joining forces with someone like Duncan in 2005 for instance?

[Quotatious]

On what planet was Lebron last year peak Lebron? Your saying last year's Lebron that was shut down by Boris Diaw is better than scorch the world 09 Lebron or make OKC look like crap Lebron?

It's not just me - majority of people here on RealGM consider 2013 to be LeBron's peak. I don't really put that much emphasis on this finals series against San Antonio - they still won, and LeBron stepped up when needed. He got lucky, for sure, but like the old saying says - winners are not judged...LeBron's regular season last year was his best, and the playoffs weren't really bad, if you look at his overall numbers. Personally, lately I've been leaning towards 2012 as LeBron's peak, but I can see a case for both 2009 and 2013.

[E-Balla]

On what planet was Lebron last year peak Lebron? Your saying last year's Lebron that was shut down by Boris Diaw is better than scorch the world 09 Lebron or make OKC look like crap Lebron?

It's not just me - majority of people here on RealGM consider 2013 to be LeBron's peak. I don't really put that much emphasis on this finals series against San Antonio - they still won, and LeBron stepped up when needed. He got lucky, for sure, but like the old saying says - winners are not judged...LeBron's regular season last year was his best, and the playoffs weren't really bad, if you look at his overall numbers. Personally, lately I've been leaning towards 2012 as LeBron's peak, but I can see a case for both 2009 and 2013.

I see 2013 as a clear step below both 09 and 12. Just because he was barely more efficient in the regular season in 2013 doesn't mean he was better it just means he was relied on less and had a better team (his usage rates agree too). His playoff numbers were great but not as good as 09 or 12 and he played pretty bad for 5 3/4 games in the Finals (nearly 2011 bad) before suddenly deciding he's Lebron and he can go ape**** on San Antonio whenever he felt like it.

[Dr Spaceman]

Just to remind everyone: as of today, Dwyane Wade has only played in 10 more games than Russell Westbrook, and almost all of those have come very recently. Let's not act like Lebron's supporting cast isn't letting him down either.

It's February, Lebron will go on a tear like he always does, and then we can judge.

[SideshowBob]

2013 > 2010 > 2009 > 2012

2012 James is a cleat step below those 3.

[rcontador]

LeBron did the same job, leading a comparable supporting cast to 66 wins in 2009. Durant is just a better scorer. LeBron is a better playmaker and defender, and his edge in these two areas is bigger than Durant's edge in terms of his scoring.

Yeah, exactly, Lebron did the same job as KD is doing now. That means they're on a similar level. Dunno why that's so hard for you to see.

And, Christ, I wish people would stop saying that Lebron's advantages in all-around game exceed KD's advantages as a scorer. We have composite stats for a reason -- so that we can see, quantitatively, whether Lebron's advantages outweigh KD's, or vice versa.

And KD's composite stats this season -- 31 PER, .327 WS/48 -- are as good as Lebron's best seasons. There is absolutely no reason to believe that Lebron's all-around game is worth more than KD's slightly more specialized game.

[Quotatious]

Yeah, exactly, Lebron did the same job as KD is doing now. That means they're on a similar level. Dunno why that's so hard for you to see.

And, Christ, I wish people would stop saying that Lebron's advantages in all-around game exceed KD's advantages as a scorer. We have composite stats for a reason -- so that we can see, quantitatively, whether Lebron's advantages outweigh KD's, or vice versa.

And KD's composite stats this season -- 31 PER, .327 WS/48 -- are as good as Lebron's best seasons. There is absolutely no reason to believe that Lebron's all-around game is worth more than KD's slightly more specialized game.

So basically, we're assuming that Durant is currently playing as good as anyone has ever played in the NBA history? You know - his PER and WS/48 are on par with peak Jordan...I'm not buying it.

[rcontador]

So basically, we're assuming that Durant is currently playing as good as anyone has ever played in the NBA history? You know - his PER and WS/48 are on par with peak Jordan...I'm not buying it.

So basically, you have no argument, but you want to keep believing what you believe anyway?

Cool.

[Joao Saraiva]

So LeBron has had several seasons above 30 on PER, has been a scoring champ, forward with most APG of all time, two time champion, 4 times MVP, 2 times finals MVP, crazy ts% and all of a sudden KD goes on a crazy (and awesome!) streak of games and he's the best player?

Some posters here just lack respect for the King. It's always the same ones going against him, putting him out of top 10 list of all time, now below KD, etc. LeBron has to do ten times more than any other player to get the same amount of recognition on RealGM.

KD is the front-runner for MVP this season and if it ended today and I voted, I would vote for him. But he needs to do more to be ahead of the B2B champion, MVP and Finals MVP to be considered the best player in the league.

How much credit should someone who is the best in the league get if they go to join forces with a guy who won a title as the man in there prime? How much credit would you give someone like KG for joining forces with someone like Duncan in 2005 for instance?

What was Wade's PER in the last playoffs? 18.7
Bosh's PER? 16.8

Pippen 93-94 (Jordan's Pirme) - 22.8
Horace Grant - 21.2

I hope you stop giving credit to MJ then, because if you don't you are having double standards on your evaluation.

[JordansBulls]

So LeBron has had several seasons above 30 on PER, has been a scoring champ, forward with most APG of all time, two time champion, 4 times MVP, 2 times finals MVP, crazy ts% and all of a sudden KD goes on a crazy (and awesome!) streak of games and he's the best player?

Some posters here just lack respect for the King. It's always the same ones going against him, putting him out of top 10 list of all time, now below KD, etc. LeBron has to do ten times more than any other player to get the same amount of recognition on RealGM.

KD is the front-runner for MVP this season and if it ended today and I voted, I would vote for him. But he needs to do more to be ahead of the B2B champion, MVP and Finals MVP to be considered the best player in the league.

How much credit should someone who is the best in the league get if they go to join forces with a guy who won a title as the man in there prime? How much credit would you give someone like KG for joining forces with someone like Duncan in 2005 for instance?

What was Wade's PER in the last playoffs? 18.7
Bosh's PER? 16.8

Pippen 93-94 (Jordan's Pirme) - 22.8
Horace Grant - 21.2

I hope you stop giving credit to MJ then, because if you don't you are having double standards on your evaluation.

Wade won a title as the man and for an organization that never won anything prior to him arriving. Lebron joined forces with a guy who got it done as the man in his city.

Wade's PER 2011 Finals = 30+

Wade
26.5 PPG / 7.0 RPG / 5.2 APG / 1.5 SPG / 1.5 BPG / 2.5 TPG / 54.6% FG / 30.4% 3 PT FG / 69.4% FT


Bosh
18.5 PPG / 7.3 RPG / 1.0 APG / 0.33 SPG / 0.50 BPG / 2.17 TPG / 41.3% FG / 0.00% 3 PT FG / 77.8% FT


Lebron
17.8 PPG / 7.2 RPG / 6.8 APG / 1.67 SPG / 0.50 BPG / 4.0 TPG / 47.8% FG / 32.1% 3 PT FG / 60.0% FT



funny thing tho is that if you compare lebron's finals games to pippen's finals games it's like they're pretty much the same players:
pippen = 19 pts / 8 reb / 6 ast on 43% shooting
lebron = 23 pts / 8 reb / 7 ast on 44% shooting

wade instead: 28 pts / 7 reb / 5 ast on 48% shooting

[Joao Saraiva]

So LeBron has had several seasons above 30 on PER

True but Durant's PER/AP48 combo is arguably better then any LBJ season.

two time champion

Team award.
KD beasted in the 2012 Finals and that series could have easily gone the other way.
People forget how close that series actually was.

4 times MVP

Subjective media given award. Plus Durant has multiple #2 finishes.

2 times finals MVP

Lebron has had more chances at it and KD has had one dominant Finals performance (in many less tries then it took Lebron to have one).

crazy ts% and all of a sudden KD goes on a crazy (and awesome!) streak of games and he's the best player

I wouldn't call it a streak considering more then half the season has been played.
Also I never felt the gap between Lebron & Durant was very big so with Durant improving this year and with Lebron taking the peddle off the gas it isn't surprising that some people are questioning who the best player in the game is.

Some posters here just lack respect for the King.

Could say the same thing for Durant (for those who think Lebron has always been 10 steps ahead of KD).

LeBron has to do ten times more than any other player to get the same amount of recognition on RealGM.

I actually feel Lebron gets overrated in general but also on RGM mainly because now that he has won a Ring or two people are quick to forget all the playoff elimination series he bombed in (2013 included despite the win).

Durant's combo is for half of the season. Let's see if he keeps it up. I personally would enjoy so and if he does it and if he puts a higher level when the playoffs come, then I have no problem telling Durant is better. Not right now.

About the championships yes it is a team award. Still important to win (not that KD can't be better than James while having less rings)

KD was amazing in 2012 in the finals. Still LeBron had a better performance.

MVP might be a media award: still are you telling me any of those MVPs wasn't deserved? Cause if you do you're obviously biased against LeBron.

It is a streak for KD. His month of February was actually much better than the months before, where he was playing at the same level as James (and James is having a lower PER than usual and lower PPG, RPG and APG).

LeBron only blew one playoffs series vs Dallas. Last year? He bombed wins? If that's what you're trying to say then you're right on point.

People really lack respect for the King and have double standards evaluating him. For any other superstar game 6 and 7 vs the Spurs with be the biggest comeback of all time. For the King it's seen by many posters who are biased against him as another day in the office.

Don't misjudge what I told: I believe KD can surpass LeBron and at some point even MJ (if he starts putting a season with 32 PER and a ts% of 70 and delivers in the playoffs in a similar way he will surpass MJ). But let's not get ahead here. LeBron is still the best player in the league.

I hope LeBron can be compared to MJ by future generations, and I would actually like Kevin Durant to be on that conversation, and maybe who knows one of them being the greatest of all time (find it hard for both of them).

EDIT: also on D LeBron's impact is way bigger than KD. LeBron is DPOY candidate material, KD is not. 2012 LeBron was truly amazing on D I really think you're underestimating his impact on that side of the court.

[Joao Saraiva]

How much credit should someone who is the best in the league get if they go to join forces with a guy who won a title as the man in there prime? How much credit would you give someone like KG for joining forces with someone like Duncan in 2005 for instance?

What was Wade's PER in the last playoffs? 18.7
Bosh's PER? 16.8

Pippen 93-94 (Jordan's Pirme) - 22.8
Horace Grant - 21.2

I hope you stop giving credit to MJ then, because if you don't you are having double standards on your evaluation.

Wade won a title as the man and for an organization that never won anything prior to him arriving. Lebron joined forces with a guy who got it done as the man in his city.

Wade's PER 2011 Finals = 30+

Wade
26.5 PPG / 7.0 RPG / 5.2 APG / 1.5 SPG / 1.5 BPG / 2.5 TPG / 54.6% FG / 30.4% 3 PT FG / 69.4% FT


Bosh
18.5 PPG / 7.3 RPG / 1.0 APG / 0.33 SPG / 0.50 BPG / 2.17 TPG / 41.3% FG / 0.00% 3 PT FG / 77.8% FT


Lebron
17.8 PPG / 7.2 RPG / 6.8 APG / 1.67 SPG / 0.50 BPG / 4.0 TPG / 47.8% FG / 32.1% 3 PT FG / 60.0% FT



funny thing tho is that if you compare lebron's finals games to pippen's finals games it's like they're pretty much the same players:
pippen = 19 pts / 8 reb / 6 ast on 43% shooting
lebron = 23 pts / 8 reb / 7 ast on 44% shooting

wade instead: 28 pts / 7 reb / 5 ast on 48% shooting

How does that have anything to do with not giving him credit in 2012 and 2013?

Wanna blame him for 2011? Sure, I'll go 1st. He was terrible. But you're just a hater who doesn't give him any credit any time. Talk about 2012. Game 6 vs Boston? Wade was beasting then, right?

How about LeBron leading his team in 2012 in PPG, RPG, APG, SPG to win the tittle? It's so easy right? MJ never did that.

Blame him when he deserves it (2011 NBA finals blame him all you want, you're absolutely right) but give him credit when he earns it.