Best player in the game.LBJ or KD?

[JordansBulls]

What was Wade's PER in the last playoffs? 18.7
Bosh's PER? 16.8

Pippen 93-94 (Jordan's Pirme) - 22.8
Horace Grant - 21.2

I hope you stop giving credit to MJ then, because if you don't you are having double standards on your evaluation.

Wade won a title as the man and for an organization that never won anything prior to him arriving. Lebron joined forces with a guy who got it done as the man in his city.

Wade's PER 2011 Finals = 30+

Wade
26.5 PPG / 7.0 RPG / 5.2 APG / 1.5 SPG / 1.5 BPG / 2.5 TPG / 54.6% FG / 30.4% 3 PT FG / 69.4% FT


Bosh
18.5 PPG / 7.3 RPG / 1.0 APG / 0.33 SPG / 0.50 BPG / 2.17 TPG / 41.3% FG / 0.00% 3 PT FG / 77.8% FT


Lebron
17.8 PPG / 7.2 RPG / 6.8 APG / 1.67 SPG / 0.50 BPG / 4.0 TPG / 47.8% FG / 32.1% 3 PT FG / 60.0% FT



funny thing tho is that if you compare lebron's finals games to pippen's finals games it's like they're pretty much the same players:
pippen = 19 pts / 8 reb / 6 ast on 43% shooting
lebron = 23 pts / 8 reb / 7 ast on 44% shooting

wade instead: 28 pts / 7 reb / 5 ast on 48% shooting

How does that have anything to do with not giving him credit in 2012 and 2013?

Wanna blame him for 2011? Sure, I'll go 1st. He was terrible. But you're just a hater who doesn't give him any credit any time. Talk about 2012. Game 6 vs Boston? Wade was beasting then, right?

How about LeBron leading his team in 2012 in PPG, RPG, APG, SPG to win the tittle? It's so easy right? MJ never did that.

Blame him when he deserves it (2011 NBA finals blame him all you want, you're absolutely right) but give him credit when he earns it.

I didn't say he played bad or anything, I said how can he get the same type of credit for someone who joined forces to form a superteam and did so in a city of a player who won a title as the man. That does not deserve the same type of credit. Also they have been down 3-2 in back to back years even with HCA and he even lost 3 straight years with it.

[KyletheDingbat]

I voted Durant, but you can't be the best till you beat the best. However I will say those waiting for Lebron to turn it on in the playoffs will likely be disappointed, because historically James has been better in the regular season.

[PaulieWal]

I didn't say he played bad or anything, I said how can he get the same type of credit for someone who joined forces to form a superteam and did so in a city of a player who won a title as the man. That does not deserve the same type of credit. Also they have been down 3-2 in back to back years even with HCA and he even lost 3 straight years with it.

I tried to read that 5 different times and still couldn't make sense of it. I know what you are trying to say though from what you have said in previous threads.

"That does not deserve the same type of credit". Okay, what does he have to do to get the "same type of credit" as say Jordan.

In 2012:

Down 2-1 against Indy with no Bosh and a Wade coming off a 5 point game performance (his lowest in the playoffs) he goes for 40/18/9. He got Wade going with multiple easy baskets and literally carried the entire team on his back.

Down 3-2 against Boston in Boston with again a struggling Wade and a Bosh playing role player minutes coming off injury he goes for 45/15/5 and blows out Boston.

In 2013:

Against Indy, Bosh decides to no show and Wade is hurt worse than 2012 and he scores 30PPG on 60%TS while leading his team in rebounds and assists.

Against the Spurs he only scores 25 PPG (leading scorer in series)yet still leads his team in rebound and assists. Guards TP in one series and West in another.

And that still doesn't deserve "the same type of credit"? Whatever that means. I am just a little shocked at the lack of objectivity.

I mean if Wade and Bosh were playing to their usual levels and LeBron had it "easy" somehow, okay you MIGHT have had a point. But you don't. Wade has been hurt two years in a row and Bosh missed almost two series in 2012.

This isn't even get into the absurdity of "teaming up with another superstar who had won as a man" when almost all teams usually have multiple stars on them but for LeBron it's not okay because his teammate had already won as the man? What? Does that take away from Wade's 06 FMVP because Shaq had won before as the man?

[JordansBulls]

I didn't say he played bad or anything, I said how can he get the same type of credit for someone who joined forces to form a superteam and did so in a city of a player who won a title as the man. That does not deserve the same type of credit. Also they have been down 3-2 in back to back years even with HCA and he even lost 3 straight years with it.

I tried to read that 5 different times and still couldn't make sense of it. I know what you are trying to say though from what you have said in previous threads.

"That does not deserve the same type of credit". Okay, what does he have to do to get the "same type of credit" as say Jordan.

In 2012:

Down 2-1 against Indy with no Bosh and a Wade coming off a 5 point game performance (his lowest in the playoffs) he goes for 40/18/9. He got Wade going with multiple easy baskets and literally carried the entire team on his back.

Down 3-2 against Boston in Boston with again a struggling Wade and a Bosh playing role player minutes coming off injury he goes for 45/15/5 and blows out Boston.

In 2013:

Against Indy, Bosh decides to no show and Wade is hurt worse than 2012 and he scores 30PPG on 60%TS while leading his team in rebounds and assists.

Against the Spurs he only scores 25 PPG (leading scorer in series)yet still leads his team in rebound and assists. Guards TP in one series and West in another.

And that still doesn't deserve "the same type of credit"? Whatever that means. I am just a little shocked at the lack of objectivity.

I mean if Wade and Bosh were playing to their usual levels and LeBron had it "easy" somehow, okay you MIGHT have had a point. But you don't. Wade has been hurt two years in a row and Bosh missed almost two series in 2012.

This isn't even get into the absurdity of "teaming up with another superstar who had won as a man" when almost all teams usually have multiple stars on them but for LeBron it's not okay because his teammate had already won as the man? What? Does that take away from Wade's 06 FMVP because Shaq had won before as the man?

Win with the franchise that drafted you. Be the guy who is the proven commodity of getting the job done as the man. Don't go to the city of the guy and join the guy who got the job done as the man in order to try to win.
And Wade didn't join Shaq, Shaq joined Wade. Wade didn't join Lebron, Lebron joined Wade in his city. Big difference. Not to mention both were the same level at the time.

[PaulieWal]

I didn't say he played bad or anything, I said how can he get the same type of credit for someone who joined forces to form a superteam and did so in a city of a player who won a title as the man. That does not deserve the same type of credit. Also they have been down 3-2 in back to back years even with HCA and he even lost 3 straight years with it.

I tried to read that 5 different times and still couldn't make sense of it. I know what you are trying to say though from what you have said in previous threads.

"That does not deserve the same type of credit". Okay, what does he have to do to get the "same type of credit" as say Jordan.

In 2012:

Down 2-1 against Indy with no Bosh and a Wade coming off a 5 point game performance (his lowest in the playoffs) he goes for 40/18/9. He got Wade going with multiple easy baskets and literally carried the entire team on his back.

Down 3-2 against Boston in Boston with again a struggling Wade and a Bosh playing role player minutes coming off injury he goes for 45/15/5 and blows out Boston.

In 2013:

Against Indy, Bosh decides to no show and Wade is hurt worse than 2012 and he scores 30PPG on 60%TS while leading his team in rebounds and assists.

Against the Spurs he only scores 25 PPG (leading scorer in series)yet still leads his team in rebound and assists. Guards TP in one series and West in another.

And that still doesn't deserve "the same type of credit"? Whatever that means. I am just a little shocked at the lack of objectivity.

I mean if Wade and Bosh were playing to their usual levels and LeBron had it "easy" somehow, okay you MIGHT have had a point. But you don't. Wade has been hurt two years in a row and Bosh missed almost two series in 2012.

This isn't even get into the absurdity of "teaming up with another superstar who had won as a man" when almost all teams usually have multiple stars on them but for LeBron it's not okay because his teammate had already won as the man? What? Does that take away from Wade's 06 FMVP because Shaq had won before as the man?

Win with the franchise that drafted you. Be the guy who is the proven commodity of getting the job done as the man. Don't go to the city of the guy and join the guy who got the job done as the man in order to try to win.

And what does any of that have to do with anything?

Why does a player have to win with the franchise that drafted him? That literally has nothing to do with any objective analysis. Look at the mess Cleveland is in now. Should he really have stayed there? You don't lose your status as a "proven commodity" if you change your franchise. Those Cleveland teams were great in the RS but who was the best player he played with there? Please tell me who was Pippen on those teams.

Funny thing is if somehow LeBron had managed to make the Finals with Cavs in 2012 (assuming he stayed and the team was more or less the same) and lost to KD who had Russ and Harden you would be saying, "Man, he just can't get it done".

Edit: Re you Wade point: That still has nothing to do anything. Who cares if Shaq joined him or hypothetically Lakers traded Wade for Kobe and Wade still won a FMVP with Shaq on his team? These are quite the empty arguments.

[JordansBulls]

I tried to read that 5 different times and still couldn't make sense of it. I know what you are trying to say though from what you have said in previous threads.

"That does not deserve the same type of credit". Okay, what does he have to do to get the "same type of credit" as say Jordan.

In 2012:

Down 2-1 against Indy with no Bosh and a Wade coming off a 5 point game performance (his lowest in the playoffs) he goes for 40/18/9. He got Wade going with multiple easy baskets and literally carried the entire team on his back.

Down 3-2 against Boston in Boston with again a struggling Wade and a Bosh playing role player minutes coming off injury he goes for 45/15/5 and blows out Boston.

In 2013:

Against Indy, Bosh decides to no show and Wade is hurt worse than 2012 and he scores 30PPG on 60%TS while leading his team in rebounds and assists.

Against the Spurs he only scores 25 PPG (leading scorer in series)yet still leads his team in rebound and assists. Guards TP in one series and West in another.

And that still doesn't deserve "the same type of credit"? Whatever that means. I am just a little shocked at the lack of objectivity.

I mean if Wade and Bosh were playing to their usual levels and LeBron had it "easy" somehow, okay you MIGHT have had a point. But you don't. Wade has been hurt two years in a row and Bosh missed almost two series in 2012.

This isn't even get into the absurdity of "teaming up with another superstar who had won as a man" when almost all teams usually have multiple stars on them but for LeBron it's not okay because his teammate had already won as the man? What? Does that take away from Wade's 06 FMVP because Shaq had won before as the man?

Win with the franchise that drafted you. Be the guy who is the proven commodity of getting the job done as the man. Don't go to the city of the guy and join the guy who got the job done as the man in order to try to win.

And what does any of that have to do with anything?

Why does a player have to win with the franchise that drafted him? That literally has nothing to do with any objective analysis. Look at the mess Cleveland is in now. Should he really have stayed there? You don't lose your status as a "proven commodity" if you change your franchise. Those Cleveland teams were great in the RS but who was the best player he played with there?

Funny thing is if somehow LeBron had managed to make the Finals with Cavs in 2012 (assuming he stayed and the team was more or less the same) and lost to KD who had Russ and Harden you would be saying, "Man, he just can't get it done".

Because it means you can take a franchise not known for winning and take them to a title. That is what greatness is defined as and that is what make guys great in being competitors. A guy who cops out to join another who won as the man is not a great competitor. If Durant does the same thing to join someone who won as the man he would be in the same boat.

[PaulieWal]

Win with the franchise that drafted you. Be the guy who is the proven commodity of getting the job done as the man. Don't go to the city of the guy and join the guy who got the job done as the man in order to try to win.

And what does any of that have to do with anything?

Why does a player have to win with the franchise that drafted him? That literally has nothing to do with any objective analysis. Look at the mess Cleveland is in now. Should he really have stayed there? You don't lose your status as a "proven commodity" if you change your franchise. Those Cleveland teams were great in the RS but who was the best player he played with there?

Funny thing is if somehow LeBron had managed to make the Finals with Cavs in 2012 (assuming he stayed and the team was more or less the same) and lost to KD who had Russ and Harden you would be saying, "Man, he just can't get it done".

Because it means you can take a franchise not known for winning and take them to a title. That is what greatness is defined as and that is what make guys great in being competitors. A guy who cops out to join another who won as the man is not a great competitor. If Durant does the same thing to join someone who won as the man he would be in the same boat.

No it doesn't mean that at all.

Jordan had Pippen
Shaq had Kobe
Wade had Shaq
Kobe had Pau
TD had TP and Manu
Even KD has Russ now (though they haven't won yet but most likely will in the future)

And this is just from the last 20 years not even counting the stacked 80s teams of Lakers and Celtics which had multiple stars.

Please tell me the second best player on those Cavs team? I am waiting. Who was his Pippen or Kobe or Shaq or Pau or Manu on those teams? I can just keep on going with other examples. Your point is quite absurd when all championship teams usually have 2 stars.

Going by your logic if the next GOAT is drafted by a team which has already won titles he wouldn't fit your definition of greatness (which has absolutely zero to do with basketball and objective analysis) .

[JordansBulls]

And what does any of that have to do with anything?

Why does a player have to win with the franchise that drafted him? That literally has nothing to do with any objective analysis. Look at the mess Cleveland is in now. Should he really have stayed there? You don't lose your status as a "proven commodity" if you change your franchise. Those Cleveland teams were great in the RS but who was the best player he played with there?

Funny thing is if somehow LeBron had managed to make the Finals with Cavs in 2012 (assuming he stayed and the team was more or less the same) and lost to KD who had Russ and Harden you would be saying, "Man, he just can't get it done".

Because it means you can take a franchise not known for winning and take them to a title. That is what greatness is defined as and that is what make guys great in being competitors. A guy who cops out to join another who won as the man is not a great competitor. If Durant does the same thing to join someone who won as the man he would be in the same boat.

No it doesn't mean that at all.

Jordan had Pippen
Shaq had Kobe
Wade had Shaq
Kobe had Pau
TD had TP and Manu
Even KD has Russ now (though they haven't won yet but most likely will in the future)

And this is just from the last 20 years not even counting the stacked 80s teams of Lakers and Celtics which had multiple stars.

Please tell me the second best player on those Cavs team? I am waiting. Who was his Pippen or Kobe or Shaq or Pau or Manu on those teams? I can just keep on going with other examples. Your point is quite absurd when all championship teams usually have 2 stars.

Going by your logic if the next GOAT is drafted by a team which has already won titles he wouldn't fit your definition of greatness (which has absolutely zero to do with basketball and objective analysis) .

None of those guys went to teams that had a guy who won a title as the man though in seeking trying to win. Lebron did that. That is what you fail to realize. Imagine Jordan going to play with Isiah or Bird or Magic or Moses Malone after they had won the title. That is what Lebron did in joining with Wade.

[PaulieWal]

Because it means you can take a franchise not known for winning and take them to a title. That is what greatness is defined as and that is what make guys great in being competitors. A guy who cops out to join another who won as the man is not a great competitor. If Durant does the same thing to join someone who won as the man he would be in the same boat.

No it doesn't mean that at all.

Jordan had Pippen
Shaq had Kobe
Wade had Shaq
Kobe had Pau
TD had TP and Manu
Even KD has Russ now (though they haven't won yet but most likely will in the future)

And this is just from the last 20 years not even counting the stacked 80s teams of Lakers and Celtics which had multiple stars.

Please tell me the second best player on those Cavs team? I am waiting. Who was his Pippen or Kobe or Shaq or Pau or Manu on those teams? I can just keep on going with other examples. Your point is quite absurd when all championship teams usually have 2 stars.

Going by your logic if the next GOAT is drafted by a team which has already won titles he wouldn't fit your definition of greatness (which has absolutely zero to do with basketball and objective analysis) .

None of those guys went to teams that had a guy who won a title as the man though in seeking trying to win. Lebron did that. That is what you fail to realize. Imagine Jordan going to play with Isiah or Bird or Magic or Moses Malone after they had won the title. That is what Lebron did in joining with Wade.

What you fail to realize is that the team is the means to an end (a championship). It doesn't matter if you get a good team via a draft or trade or free agency. It's not any more fair for KD to have Russ than for LeBron to play with Wade.

Why would Jordan go play with Isiah or Bird? He already had Pippen. Why would any of the other stars I listed go play with other stars when they already had stars on their team.

Once again I ask who was the second best player on those teams? Who was LeBron's Pippen on those teams?

[JordansBulls]

No it doesn't mean that at all.

Jordan had Pippen
Shaq had Kobe
Wade had Shaq
Kobe had Pau
TD had TP and Manu
Even KD has Russ now (though they haven't won yet but most likely will in the future)

And this is just from the last 20 years not even counting the stacked 80s teams of Lakers and Celtics which had multiple stars.

Please tell me the second best player on those Cavs team? I am waiting. Who was his Pippen or Kobe or Shaq or Pau or Manu on those teams? I can just keep on going with other examples. Your point is quite absurd when all championship teams usually have 2 stars.

Going by your logic if the next GOAT is drafted by a team which has already won titles he wouldn't fit your definition of greatness (which has absolutely zero to do with basketball and objective analysis) .

None of those guys went to teams that had a guy who won a title as the man though in seeking trying to win. Lebron did that. That is what you fail to realize. Imagine Jordan going to play with Isiah or Bird or Magic or Moses Malone after they had won the title. That is what Lebron did in joining with Wade.

What you fail to realize is that the team is the means to an end (a championship). It doesn't matter if you get a good team via a draft or trade or free agency. It's not any more fair for KD to have Russ than for LeBron to play with Wade.

Why would Jordan go play with Isiah or Bird? He already had Pippen. Why would any of the other stars I listed go play with other stars when they already had stars on their team.

Once again I ask who was the second best player on those teams? Who was LeBron's Pippen on those teams?

What do you mean he had Pippen? He came in as a role player. Lebron joined a guy who was a superstar. Who did Lebron ever aid to becoming a star?

Source: GoogleBooks

Pippen, unlike other Bulls who usually kept their distance from Jordan, tried to learn all he could from Jordan in practice. In turn, Jordan worked with Pippen on his moves, jump shot, and defense and taught him mental toughness.

Pippen relates on how his game improved - Link

“He was very competitive, so he went at me and that helped me learn,” said Pippen. “You continue to compete against the very best every day, and you will get better, or you’ll be embarrassed.”

“A lot of my instincts came from guarding Michael all the time in practice,” he added. “I had four other guys on my team, but I had schemes that I would throw out there depending on what he did. I’d say, ‘If I make Michael do this, then you go trap him.’ There were things I tried to do on defense to trigger him into a
mistake. He was a great player, and if you couldn’t try it on him in practice, there was nowhere else to try it.”

Pippen realized himself that going against MJ is what made him better.


http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/news?slug=a ... rdan090909

“Michael was great at identifying things,” Krause said. “Would Pippen have been great someplace else? Michael absolutely killed Scottie in practice every day for his first two years. Mike just tore Pip up. He made Pip learn how to compete and forced him into playing hard. Had there not been someone to challenge Scottie like that, I’m not sure what would’ve happened to him.”

Not to mention Pippen didn't even make the allstar when the Bulls won there first and last titles.

This will be the 4th year in a row where Lebron has played with 2 other allstars in the allstar game as well, guys who are superstars at that one of which who starts each year in it.

And Lebron didn't have a Pippen on those teams because for one two guys on those teams won a title as the man in Ben Wallace and Shaq so naturally those guys aren't Pippen type players. Ben Wallace was the only allstar on a team that won it all and we know Shaq was a 3x finals mvp winner and 1x league mvp winner and the allstar game mvp winner the year before joining forces.

Be we are getting carried away here. The point was what best player in the league goes to join forces with a proven champion who won as the man in his city? No one does that if they truly are the best player.

[Joao Saraiva]

I didn't say he played bad or anything, I said how can he get the same type of credit for someone who joined forces to form a superteam and did so in a city of a player who won a title as the man. That does not deserve the same type of credit. Also they have been down 3-2 in back to back years even with HCA and he even lost 3 straight years with it.

I tried to read that 5 different times and still couldn't make sense of it. I know what you are trying to say though from what you have said in previous threads.

"That does not deserve the same type of credit". Okay, what does he have to do to get the "same type of credit" as say Jordan.

In 2012:

Down 2-1 against Indy with no Bosh and a Wade coming off a 5 point game performance (his lowest in the playoffs) he goes for 40/18/9. He got Wade going with multiple easy baskets and literally carried the entire team on his back.

Down 3-2 against Boston in Boston with again a struggling Wade and a Bosh playing role player minutes coming off injury he goes for 45/15/5 and blows out Boston.

In 2013:

Against Indy, Bosh decides to no show and Wade is hurt worse than 2012 and he scores 30PPG on 60%TS while leading his team in rebounds and assists.

Against the Spurs he only scores 25 PPG (leading scorer in series)yet still leads his team in rebound and assists. Guards TP in one series and West in another.

And that still doesn't deserve "the same type of credit"? Whatever that means. I am just a little shocked at the lack of objectivity.

I mean if Wade and Bosh were playing to their usual levels and LeBron had it "easy" somehow, okay you MIGHT have had a point. But you don't. Wade has been hurt two years in a row and Bosh missed almost two series in 2012.

This isn't even get into the absurdity of "teaming up with another superstar who had won as a man" when almost all teams usually have multiple stars on them but for LeBron it's not okay because his teammate had already won as the man? What? Does that take away from Wade's 06 FMVP because Shaq had won before as the man?

Win with the franchise that drafted you. Be the guy who is the proven commodity of getting the job done as the man. Don't go to the city of the guy and join the guy who got the job done as the man in order to try to win.
And Wade didn't join Shaq, Shaq joined Wade. Wade didn't join Lebron, Lebron joined Wade in his city. Big difference. Not to mention both were the same level at the time.

LeBron had Mike Brown. Was seen as a good coach and after stopping coaching LeBron he was seen in a hurry as the worst coach in the NBA!

Win with the franchise that drafted you? Crap coach, the best teammate he got was Mo Williams... if the franchise gives you prime Shaq, prime Pippen, Rodman, Horace Grant, yeah sure win with that franchise. If your franchise gives you Mo Williams as your 2nd best player... well I don't care who is the star, he just won't win there.

Mo Williams went from 2nd option on that Cleveland team to 4th or 5th man in the Clippers. Yes that's how bad the franchise was to LeBron (and I have nothing against Cleveland I actually like the franchise and would like to see them turnin it arround with Kyrie... but it doesn't likely right now)

[PaulieWal]

Not to mention Pippen didn't even make the allstar when the Bulls won there first and last titles.

This will be the 4th year in a row where Lebron has played with 2 other allstars in the allstar game as well, guys who are superstars at that one of which who starts each year in it.

And Lebron didn't have a Pippen on those teams because for one two guys on those teams won a title as the man in Ben Wallace and Shaq so naturally those guys aren't Pippen type players. Ben Wallace was the only allstar on a team that won it all and we know Shaq was a 3x finals mvp winner and 1x league mvp winner and the allstar game mvp winner the year before joining forces.

Be we are getting carried away here. The point was what best player in the league goes to join forces with a proven champion who won as the man in his city? No one does that if they truly are the best player.

Jordan Bulls, I have never seen a rationalization hamster like yours. You keep on repeating the same thing over and over while ignoring the examples I gave you and the holes I pointed out in your logic.

LeBron had no one on that Cavs team. Except for the 2010 Boston Finals he showed up for every series. Short of guarding Howard in 09 there is not much more he could have done.

It's not only MJ, every other team has had 2 stars usually. Who cares if you get those stars via draft or free agency or a trade? That is a completely irrelevant and illogical standard that you have created. If KD wins with Russ that somehow does not make it any better than LeBron winning with Wade or Shaq winning with Kobe or Kobe winning with Pau or Duncan winning with Parker and Manu.

Stars are stars and they are needed on teams to win. How LeBron got his star is completely irrelevant to his performance as a basketball player and is not part of any criteria used to judge him. He has more than carried his fair share in these last two playoff runs and even in 2011 outside of the Dallas disaster.

[MisterWestside]

The funny thing is that Durant has been essentially the same player without Westbrook in the lineup. He's shooting 7% less of his shots from the midrange, and shooting more at his preferred sweet spots with more volume (at the rim and the 3-pt line). Brook's lineups provides plenty of floor spacing for Durant, and without Westbrook he isn't relegated to shooting from his weaker areas of the floor, thus giving him more opportunities to score in areas where he has always excelled.

A better player than James? My take on his skillset is the same as it was before his Westbrook-less stretch, so no.

[SideshowBob]

The funny thing is that Durant has been essentially the same player without Westbrook in the lineup. He's shooting 7% less of his shots from the midrange, and shooting more at his preferred sweet spots with more volume (at the rim and the 3-pt line). Brook's lineups provides plenty of floor spacing for Durant, and without Westbrook he isn't relegated to shooting from his weaker areas of the floor, thus giving him more opportunities to score in areas where he has always excelled.

A better player than James? My take on his skillset is the same as it was before his Westbrook-less stretch, so no.

Thoughts on James' defense in the last couple of weeks?

[MisterWestside]

Thoughts on James' defense in the last couple of weeks?

Great question. I'll post in more detail in the LeBron thread, but I think he's been more engaged on defense, particularly with closeouts and and covering ground on the wings. Perhaps he's picked up the activity level when Tom Haberstroh pointed out to him how his team has actually played better without him on the floor But he's kicked it up a notch, at least effort-wise.

[Laimbeer]

Durant is having a better season but LeBron was and is a better player.

My sense is it's a matter of coasting and when LeBron and the Heat pick it up a notch he'll be playing better than Durant. But the gap between LeBron and Durant when both at their best has shrunk.

[KING JAMES1978]

None of those guys went to teams that had a guy who won a title as the man though in seeking trying to win. Lebron did that. That is what you fail to realize. Imagine Jordan going to play with Isiah or Bird or Magic or Moses Malone after they had won the title. That is what Lebron did in joining with Wade.

You still afraid Lebron?Lol
It doesn't matter if Lebron is in the same team with Wade.Wade isn't 2006 Wade.He is a 18 ppg player..He has injuries.Last year at Playoffs he was bad.Only Game 4 at Finals you have to remember other than that he was very bad at the Playoffs.
I remember when you said the same **** when he had teammate the 37 year old Shaq or Ben Wallace.
Yes and Jordan had Robert Parish teammate.lol
Teammates and big names means nothing if they aren't at their best.And Wade was never at his best after Lebron went to Miami.

[Quotatious]

Except for the 2010 Boston Finals he showed up for every series.

I think that him "quitting" on his team even in that series is overblown, to be honest. He had passive and awful shooting game 5 when the Cavs lost by 32 points on their home floor, but other than that, he was just his usual self...Obviously not even close to his monstrous 2009 playoffs, but his numbers were pretty respectable - usual LeBron's all-around statline - roughly 27/9/7/2/1 on 55-56% TS, and that's even WITH game 5 included. Nothing to be ashamed of, if you ask me, except for that awful game 5 when he went 3 for 14 from the field and generally looked extremely frustrated, to the point where he just stopped shooting at certain point. That's the only real blemish on him during the ECSF against Boston in 2010.

[orangeparka]

Because it means you can take a franchise not known for winning and take them to a title. That is what greatness is defined as and that is what make guys great in being competitors. A guy who cops out to join another who won as the man is not a great competitor. If Durant does the same thing to join someone who won as the man he would be in the same boat.

Wait, so if like Kobe, he were drafted to an elite organization the Lakers or like Durant, into an ideal rebuilding situation with budding young stars like the Thunder, and won championships like he is now, he'd somehow be a better player?

A lot of all-time greats were very lucky and fortunate to be in good conditions, that's often very understated.

However, unlike the guys that wasted out their best years without real shots at the title, LeBron decided to make his own luck, pretty much.

Is having a GM ant top-class organization do all the work and create a great team better? At some point, isn't taking matters into your own hands better?

[MojoPharoah]

Except for the 2010 Boston Finals he showed up for every series.

I think that him "quitting" on his team even in that series is overblown, to be honest. He had passive and awful shooting game 5 when the Cavs lost by 32 points on their home floor, but other than that, he was just his usual self...Obviously not even close to his monstrous 2009 playoffs, but his numbers were pretty respectable - usual LeBron's all-around statline - roughly 27/9/7/2/1 on 55-56% TS, and that's even WITH game 5 included. Nothing to be ashamed of, if you ask me, except for that awful game 5 when he went 3 for 14 from the field and generally looked extremely frustrated, to the point where he just stopped shooting at certain point. That's the only real blemish on him during the ECSF against Boston in 2010.

Game 5 gains significance when one considers that it was his last home game as a Cav and it was very winnable series at that point, plus the fact that the 2011 Finals followed the next season, where the same detachment issue came up. If it were an isolated incident in a different year, it might not be referenced, but the noted factors heightened it. TBH, Game 5 was one of the reasons why I thought he'd resign with the Cavs, not wanting to leave on that note.