I believe you're right.gflem wrote:I don't think Waiters is going to be around come draft time any way.
The tank thread!
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Time to tank hard and free Deng and Varejao and send them to good situations. Anyone who still wants to see this sorry team get the 8th seed needs to be banned from this forum. Also, I'm happy all you Waiters/Tristan nut huggers came to your senses and realized what poor picks they were.
SargentBargs101 wrote:CB-Blazer wrote:what the heck is an Ebanks?
The remote delivery of new and traditional banking products and services through electronic delivery channels. There you go bud
Re: The tank thread!
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I still like waiters more than anyone not named Drummond he just needs a change of scenery. Thompson is a
Solid player but I never liked that we passed on promising centres 3 years running and we didn't pick a roster that got together at all.
Wonder what we could get for deng and Andy? We should definitely look to move them, hopefully Andy stays healthy.
Solid player but I never liked that we passed on promising centres 3 years running and we didn't pick a roster that got together at all.
Wonder what we could get for deng and Andy? We should definitely look to move them, hopefully Andy stays healthy.
Re: The tank thread!
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Re: The tank thread!
fart wrote:Time to tank hard and free Deng and Varejao and send them to good situations. Anyone who still wants to see this sorry team get the 8th seed needs to be banned from this forum. Also, I'm happy all you Waiters/Tristan nut huggers came to your senses and realized what poor picks they were.


I don't know whether to laugh or roll my eyes. Dion Waiters is your favorite scapegoat, but neither Waiters or Tristan were bad picks. Dion Waiters can be between a 15-20 ppg scorer in the NBA with proper development and Tristan can average a double double. Those are positive assets. If you don't think those assets fit on your team, they are still positive assets with real value throughout the league. The problems with this team start and end with Mike Brown.
Literally everyone on this team, from Kyrie on down, is having a down year. Numbers down across the board for everybody. That's not a coincidence. Brown's stagnant, elementary schemes have rendered everyone on this team useless, and he can't inspire anyone to play defense. This is a team that has quit on it's coach, much moreso than one that is terribly constructed. The roster has holes, should never have conducted the Bynum experiment, and probably has too many young players to really compete at a high level at a regular basis, but this team should still not be nearly this bad.
Just because you love Jonas and Harrison Barnes, doesn't make them superior players to our draft picks. Aside from Bennett, I don't really have an issue with Grant's picks. He decided to spend money on the wrong free agents this summer and he rehired Mike Brown, which I think was his fatal mistake. If you hire a different coach in April, we're probably having a very different conversation right now.
You have repeatedly shown yourself to be shortsighted, and I'm still not really sure if you're a Cavs fan or a troll or something. A new GM might clean slate and trade everyone not named Kyrie anyway. But I think it's silly to repeat the same tropes and narratives of "Dion Waiters and Tristan Thompson don't belong in the league, Harrison Barnes is the next NBA MVP".
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Chill, bro. If you don't like his message, go after his message, not him. Dude's got an edge and likes to show it but I agree with the overall point.SmoothKing32 wrote:fart wrote:Time to tank hard and free Deng and Varejao and send them to good situations. Anyone who still wants to see this sorry team get the 8th seed needs to be banned from this forum. Also, I'm happy all you Waiters/Tristan nut huggers came to your senses and realized what poor picks they were.
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I don't know whether to laugh or roll my eyes. Dion Waiters is your favorite scapegoat, but neither Waiters or Tristan were bad picks. Dion Waiters can be between a 15-20 ppg scorer in the NBA with proper development and Tristan can average a double double. Those are positive assets. If you don't think those assets fit on your team, they are still positive assets with real value throughout the league. The problems with this team start and end with Mike Brown.
Literally everyone on this team, from Kyrie on down, is having a down year. Numbers down across the board for everybody. That's not a coincidence. Brown's stagnant, elementary schemes have rendered everyone on this team useless, and he can't inspire anyone to play defense. This is a team that has quit on it's coach, much moreso than one that is terribly constructed. The roster has holes, should never have conducted the Bynum experiment, and probably has too many young players to really compete at a high level at a regular basis, but this team should still not be nearly this bad.
Just because you love Jonas and Harrison Barnes, doesn't make them superior players to our draft picks. Aside from Bennett, I don't really have an issue with Grant's picks. He decided to spend money on the wrong free agents this summer and he rehired Mike Brown, which I think was his fatal mistake. If you hire a different coach in April, we're probably having a very different conversation right now.
You have repeatedly shown yourself to be shortsighted, and I'm still not really sure if you're a Cavs fan or a troll or something. A new GM might clean slate and trade everyone not named Kyrie anyway. But I think it's silly to repeat the same tropes and narratives of "Dion Waiters and Tristan Thompson don't belong in the league, Harrison Barnes is the next NBA MVP".
Blow this thing up and start over.
Re: The tank thread!
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Re: The tank thread!
SmoothKing32 wrote:fart wrote:Time to tank hard and free Deng and Varejao and send them to good situations. Anyone who still wants to see this sorry team get the 8th seed needs to be banned from this forum. Also, I'm happy all you Waiters/Tristan nut huggers came to your senses and realized what poor picks they were.
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I don't know whether to laugh or roll my eyes. Dion Waiters is your favorite scapegoat, but neither Waiters or Tristan were bad picks. Dion Waiters can be between a 15-20 ppg scorer in the NBA with proper development and Tristan can average a double double. Those are positive assets. If you don't think those assets fit on your team, they are still positive assets with real value throughout the league. The problems with this team start and end with Mike Brown.
Literally everyone on this team, from Kyrie on down, is having a down year. Numbers down across the board for everybody. That's not a coincidence. Brown's stagnant, elementary schemes have rendered everyone on this team useless, and he can't inspire anyone to play defense. This is a team that has quit on it's coach, much moreso than one that is terribly constructed. The roster has holes, should never have conducted the Bynum experiment, and probably has too many young players to really compete at a high level at a regular basis, but this team should still not be nearly this bad.
Just because you love Jonas and Harrison Barnes, doesn't make them superior players to our draft picks. Aside from Bennett, I don't really have an issue with Grant's picks. He decided to spend money on the wrong free agents this summer and he rehired Mike Brown, which I think was his fatal mistake. If you hire a different coach in April, we're probably having a very different conversation right now.
You have repeatedly shown yourself to be shortsighted, and I'm still not really sure if you're a Cavs fan or a troll or something. A new GM might clean slate and trade everyone not named Kyrie anyway. But I think it's silly to repeat the same tropes and narratives of "Dion Waiters and Tristan Thompson don't belong in the league, Harrison Barnes is the next NBA MVP".
Yea, they were both such great picks that they got the GM fired. Doesn't matter if waiters is a 20PPG scorer if he is doing it at 40% shooting. There is literally not one thing he is above average at. Average three point shooter, poor mid range shooter, poor at finishing at the rim, poor free throw shooting, average defender, slightly above average court vision. Excuse me if I don't think the sum of these characteristics are worthy of a top 4 pick. Ohh and then there is Tristan "I'm too good for offense" Thompson, who still can't do anything besides grab you rebounds and get the occasional putback or dunk. Don't get me wrong, he is a nice role player to have, but not worthy of a top 5 pick. People like you seem content with drafting role players with these really high picks. Top 5 picks aren't meant to be used for role players, those can easily be found in later part of the draft and free agency. You're comment about me being short sighted is also pretty hilarious considering you are probably one of the fans that wanted to drag this abomination of a team into the 8th seed just to get destroyed by the pacers, while I am one of the few who realized from the beginning that this roster is **** and we need to try to get a cornerstone piece from this draft.
SargentBargs101 wrote:CB-Blazer wrote:what the heck is an Ebanks?
The remote delivery of new and traditional banking products and services through electronic delivery channels. There you go bud
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It was curious reading the Wizards game thread from last night. They rip on Beal more than fart rips on Waiters. Also you had that Pistons fan come in last night and tell us how overrated Drummond is.
Maybe it's not just us.. patience seems to be run extremely thin for young guys nowadays.
Anyway, the sooner we trade off the vets the better. We obviously have some guys with value, and getting solid pieces back for them should help our young guys get more minutes and continue to develop.
Jack, Deng, Miles, Varejao, Clark. All of those guys should be shopped, and Im pretty sure they are.
Maybe it's not just us.. patience seems to be run extremely thin for young guys nowadays.
Anyway, the sooner we trade off the vets the better. We obviously have some guys with value, and getting solid pieces back for them should help our young guys get more minutes and continue to develop.
Jack, Deng, Miles, Varejao, Clark. All of those guys should be shopped, and Im pretty sure they are.
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I'm watching Kansas right now. I wouldn't want to rely on these guys to turn my franchise around. They are good players but not franchise changers.
cbosh4mvp wrote:
Jarret Allen isn’t winning you anything. Garland won’t show up in the playoffs. Mobley is a glorified dunk man. Mitchell has some experience but is a liability on defense. To me, the Cavs are a treadmill team.
Jarret Allen isn’t winning you anything. Garland won’t show up in the playoffs. Mobley is a glorified dunk man. Mitchell has some experience but is a liability on defense. To me, the Cavs are a treadmill team.
Re: The tank thread!
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mup wrote:Chill, bro. If you don't like his message, go after his message, not him. Dude's got an edge and likes to show it but I agree with the overall point.SmoothKing32 wrote:fart wrote:Time to tank hard and free Deng and Varejao and send them to good situations. Anyone who still wants to see this sorry team get the 8th seed needs to be banned from this forum. Also, I'm happy all you Waiters/Tristan nut huggers came to your senses and realized what poor picks they were.
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I don't know whether to laugh or roll my eyes. Dion Waiters is your favorite scapegoat, but neither Waiters or Tristan were bad picks. Dion Waiters can be between a 15-20 ppg scorer in the NBA with proper development and Tristan can average a double double. Those are positive assets. If you don't think those assets fit on your team, they are still positive assets with real value throughout the league. The problems with this team start and end with Mike Brown.
Literally everyone on this team, from Kyrie on down, is having a down year. Numbers down across the board for everybody. That's not a coincidence. Brown's stagnant, elementary schemes have rendered everyone on this team useless, and he can't inspire anyone to play defense. This is a team that has quit on it's coach, much moreso than one that is terribly constructed. The roster has holes, should never have conducted the Bynum experiment, and probably has too many young players to really compete at a high level at a regular basis, but this team should still not be nearly this bad.
Just because you love Jonas and Harrison Barnes, doesn't make them superior players to our draft picks. Aside from Bennett, I don't really have an issue with Grant's picks. He decided to spend money on the wrong free agents this summer and he rehired Mike Brown, which I think was his fatal mistake. If you hire a different coach in April, we're probably having a very different conversation right now.
You have repeatedly shown yourself to be shortsighted, and I'm still not really sure if you're a Cavs fan or a troll or something. A new GM might clean slate and trade everyone not named Kyrie anyway. But I think it's silly to repeat the same tropes and narratives of "Dion Waiters and Tristan Thompson don't belong in the league, Harrison Barnes is the next NBA MVP".
Blow this thing up and start over.
Sure it was a bit of a personal attack, but it's completely false to say there isn't talent on this team. Plus, it's not like I didn't make any points of my own in the post.
Re: The tank thread!
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fart wrote:SmoothKing32 wrote:fart wrote:Time to tank hard and free Deng and Varejao and send them to good situations. Anyone who still wants to see this sorry team get the 8th seed needs to be banned from this forum. Also, I'm happy all you Waiters/Tristan nut huggers came to your senses and realized what poor picks they were.
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I don't know whether to laugh or roll my eyes. Dion Waiters is your favorite scapegoat, but neither Waiters or Tristan were bad picks. Dion Waiters can be between a 15-20 ppg scorer in the NBA with proper development and Tristan can average a double double. Those are positive assets. If you don't think those assets fit on your team, they are still positive assets with real value throughout the league. The problems with this team start and end with Mike Brown.
Literally everyone on this team, from Kyrie on down, is having a down year. Numbers down across the board for everybody. That's not a coincidence. Brown's stagnant, elementary schemes have rendered everyone on this team useless, and he can't inspire anyone to play defense. This is a team that has quit on it's coach, much moreso than one that is terribly constructed. The roster has holes, should never have conducted the Bynum experiment, and probably has too many young players to really compete at a high level at a regular basis, but this team should still not be nearly this bad.
Just because you love Jonas and Harrison Barnes, doesn't make them superior players to our draft picks. Aside from Bennett, I don't really have an issue with Grant's picks. He decided to spend money on the wrong free agents this summer and he rehired Mike Brown, which I think was his fatal mistake. If you hire a different coach in April, we're probably having a very different conversation right now.
You have repeatedly shown yourself to be shortsighted, and I'm still not really sure if you're a Cavs fan or a troll or something. A new GM might clean slate and trade everyone not named Kyrie anyway. But I think it's silly to repeat the same tropes and narratives of "Dion Waiters and Tristan Thompson don't belong in the league, Harrison Barnes is the next NBA MVP".
Yea, they were both such great picks that they got the GM fired. Doesn't matter if waiters is a 20PPG scorer if he is doing it at 40% shooting. There is literally not one thing he is above average at. Average three point shooter, poor mid range shooter, poor at finishing at the rim, poor free throw shooting, average defender, slightly above average court vision. Excuse me if I don't think the sum of these characteristics are worthy of a top 4 pick. Ohh and then there is Tristan "I'm too good for offense" Thompson, who still can't do anything besides grab you rebounds and get the occasional putback or dunk. Don't get me wrong, he is a nice role player to have, but not worthy of a top 5 pick. People like you seem content with drafting role players with these really high picks. Top 5 picks aren't meant to be used for role players, those can easily be found in later part of the draft and free agency. You're comment about me being short sighted is also pretty hilarious considering you are probably one of the fans that wanted to drag this abomination of a team into the 8th seed just to get destroyed by the pacers, while I am one of the few who realized from the beginning that this roster is **** and we need to try to get a cornerstone piece from this draft.
Player A: 38.7% eFG on jump shots; 59.5% eFG on catch-and-shoot
Player B: 37.8% eFG on jump shots; 56.4% eFG on catch-and-shoot
Player A is Dion Waiters. Player B is Bradley Beal. Beal is considered a great shooter. So Waiters has nothing that he is even average at, even when he's better than Beal? Please.

Last season Waiters took more shots at the rim than any guard not named Wade, Harden, or Kobe. Getting to the rim is an elite skill for him. Each of those players has multiple shooters on their team, which opens up floor spacing. The lack of shooters collapses the defense and makes it more difficult for Waiters to finish, through roster construction and Brown's lack of offensive acumen.
Waiters is abysmal at the free throw line, but if he can get to even 75% and improve his shooting at the rim, he will score 18-20 ppg on a higher fg%. That is a talented, positive asset in the NBA, whether you like it or not. That is worth a top 5 pick. Barnes is not better than him. Drummond has a bit more impact now, but it's not set in concrete that he'll ever reach his potential either. Just because Mike Brown can't coach a High School team's offensive sets doesn't mean Waiters can't play.
I'm not as big on Tristan, but he's not a wasted pick either, even in the top 5. It seems everyone has quieted on the God Jonas V talk of this past summer. Tristan will give you a double double nightly, and it's hilarious to me how people say Tristan was a huge reach, but that we should have reached even MORE for Kawhi or Klay Thompson at #4. Talk about drafting in hindsight.
At the end of the day, this team has the talent to be successful and make the playoffs. Kyrie Irving and Dion Waiters can play together, and they can be a successful offensive tandem. Just look at last night when they played a faster pace. This is a young team without any offensive guidance, and without a true rim protector. This team should be playing fast, against defenses that aren't set. That maximizes both Irving and Waiters and gets Thompson and Bennett out on the break where they and catch the ball on the move and don't have to face help defense. Mike Brown continues to try to force these guys into a half court game, which isn't the strength of this team. It's not for a lot of young players.
Getting into the playoffs is essential for the growth of any young team. Just because we might be a 7th or 8th seed this year and only win one game doesn't mean we're horrible. It's a sign of growth, and if we use our capspace this summer to absorb players through trade or sign guys outright (hopefully better than last yrs FAs) and get another coach who knows how to maximize this roster, we'll be fine for the future. 2014 isn't as good as advertised from a draft standpoint anyway, I like Wiggins and Embiid but we won't get a top 2 pick. If this draft is as good as you think, we'd be fine with a 15-20 pick anyway. As long as Brown is the coach though, we'll likely finish in the lottery due to his epic mismanagement.
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I don't know what efg even is. All I know is I watch a majority of games this season and he has played like ass for a good majority of those games.
SargentBargs101 wrote:CB-Blazer wrote:what the heck is an Ebanks?
The remote delivery of new and traditional banking products and services through electronic delivery channels. There you go bud
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fart wrote:I don't know what efg even is. All I know is I watch a majority of games this season and he has played like ass for a good majority of those games.
The stats don't tell the same story as your narrative, so you dismiss them.

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at least you're honest.fart wrote:I don't know what efg even is. All I know is I watch a majority of games this season and he has played like ass for a good majority of those games.
Heat3Peat wrote:See this is why it's nice being a LeBron fan, no super hard allegiance to a team so there is no up and down emotions with me during a time like this.
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Kawhi Leonard and even to a lesser degree Klay Thompson are always defended by people saying they would've been even bigger reaches than TT at the time, which is pretty much false. They see Klay went 11th and Kawhi went 15th and assume that was the case, but anyone who paid attention to that draft as it was happening knows it wasn't.
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Okada wrote:Kawhi Leonard and even to a lesser degree Klay Thompson are always defended by people saying they would've been even bigger reaches than TT at the time, which is pretty much false. They see Klay went 11th and Kawhi went 15th and assume that was the case, but anyone who paid attention to that draft as it was happening knows it wasn't.
That's your opinion. Klay and Kawhi were fringe top ten guys at the time of the draft at best. Tristan was heavily reported to be a lock to goto Detroit at 8 at the latest, and would have gone as high as 6 to Washington if we didn't draft him. Unlike the other two, Tristan was considered a top 10 pick virtually everywhere.
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anyone paying attention to the 2012 draft knew Dion drew a lot of attention at #5, #6, #7.Okada wrote:Kawhi Leonard and even to a lesser degree Klay Thompson are always defended by people saying they would've been even bigger reaches than TT at the time, which is pretty much false. They see Klay went 11th and Kawhi went 15th and assume that was the case, but anyone who paid attention to that draft as it was happening knows it wasn't.
Heat3Peat wrote:See this is why it's nice being a LeBron fan, no super hard allegiance to a team so there is no up and down emotions with me during a time like this.
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Every mock had Tristan to the pistons at #8.
Heat3Peat wrote:See this is why it's nice being a LeBron fan, no super hard allegiance to a team so there is no up and down emotions with me during a time like this.
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Tristan is better than Williams, Knight, Veseley. He's about equal to Kanter and JV. What the hell is Bitchsmack Biyombo doing? Cavs could have done much worse.
Heat3Peat wrote:See this is why it's nice being a LeBron fan, no super hard allegiance to a team so there is no up and down emotions with me during a time like this.
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SmoothKing32 wrote:That's your opinion. Klay and Kawhi were fringe top ten guys at the time of the draft at best. Tristan was heavily reported to be a lock to goto Detroit at 8 at the latest, and would have gone as high as 6 to Washington if we didn't draft him. Unlike the other two, Tristan was considered a top 10 pick virtually everywhere.
It's not 'my opinion', there was another thread where I posted the mock draft spots of Kawhi and Tristan for around 10 different mocks and they were overall, just about identical. There were multiple mocks that had as taking Kawhi at 4th too.