Western Conference Quarterfinals: (4) john248 vs. (5) ThunderDan9
(4) john248 1. Kareem Abdul-Jabbar (80-82) 2. Tracy McGrady (01-03) 3. Ray Allen (00-02) 4. Larry Nance (87-89) 5. Terry Porter (91-93) 6. Elton Brand (05-07) 7. Tyson Chandler (11-13) 8. Michael Redd (04-06) 9. Nicolas Batum (12-14) 10. Derrick Rose (09-11)
(5) ThunderDan9 1. Larry Bird (84-86) 2. Dwight Howard (09-11) 3. Manu Ginobili (05-07) 4. Mark Price (92-94) 5. Horace Grant (93-95) 6. Bernard King (82-84) 7. Vlade Divac (95-97) 8. Derek Harper (88-90) 9. Dan Majerle (91-93) 10. Josh Smith (10-12)
In each match up, GMs will offer their preliminary strategy for beating the other team and reasons for why their team is stronger. GMs will also have the opportunity to respond to the opponent's strategy. Judges will offer any comments and questions they have of the GMs and finally will cast their vote for whichever team they think is stronger simply by saying 'Team A wins this matchup' or 'Team B wins this matchup'. Whoever gets more votes moves on.
Howard/Divac Grant/Bird/Josh Smith Bird/King/Josh Smith Ginobili/Majerle Price/D. Harper
I wanted to build a team that feels like a real team. A team that I could envision as a functioning unit, rather than a random assembly of individually good players. I mainly tried to draft players who understand the team concept, are unselfish (!), and do whatever it takes to win. That may be a generalization, but still... No ego clashes, no headcases (I don't think there would be too much problem with even Bernard, he would like the opportunity to finally play WITH a TALENTED team).
I did not drafted defensive specialists in the mold of Bowen or Ben Wallace... the defense would be still pretty good, with a true defensive anchor in the middle (3*DPOY Dwight) surrounding him with players who again understand the importance of team play on the defensive end as well. Team defense should be great with high basketball iq guys like Bird, Ginobili, Grant, who are also capable defenders individually. Put in tenacious defenders like Majerle and Derek Harper and Josh Smith or even smart Divac... I don't think it would be pleasant to play against my team. This team would also generate some steals, and the rebounding of my starting 5 would be one of the best in the whole field (maybe even #1?). All in all: Bird is paired with an all-time great defensive center, a true difference maker, and gets another great defensive big man in Grant who is quick and athletic enough to switch the forwards of the opposing team occacionally, and good perimeter defenders like Gino, Majerle, Harper... with the fregoli man Josh Smith.
My offense should be a nice balance as well. My team is led of course by arguably the best offensive player ever, 3*MVP Larry Bird. I don't want to go into details how many ways he can hurt the opponent... There is Dwight Howard in the middle, who doesn't shoot a great many volume of shots, but that's not a bad thing considering that my team features plenty of offensive threats... so his relative flaw (not a dominant scorer with polished offensive moves, like a Hakeem or Kareem) almost turns into a benefit. As we all know, he is still a big threat on the court due to his extreme athleticism, and he would have a) plenty of space because he is surrounded by 3 excellent shooters (Bird, Price, Ginobili) and 1 good midrange shooter (Grant), and b) when the situation occurs, he would be fed by excellent passers (again: Bird, Price, Ginobili) to score easy buckets.
And here we are at a big forte of my team: passing. Bird is the best passer at his position, prime Price is a great playmaker, a sharp passer and Ginobili is also an elite passer at his position. Grant is no slouch in that department, either. The ball movement should be smooth, and would consistently create good scoring opportunities. Great passing also makes it very hard to double-team any of my key players... and Bird, Price and even Ginobili are not easy to guard 1-on-1. As a rule, Price is the player who initiates the attack, breaking down the first line of defense... a pick-and-roll with Bird would be pretty unstoppable, lol. And then comes Bird with his unpredictible game, Manu driving to the basket, dishing out to Price or Bird, or making a cut to the basket scoring of a Bird-pass from the post, the creativity (!), passing and shooting of my players would open so many possibilites. Shooting: with some cheating, I almost have TWO 50-40-90 guys... that's insane. Add Manu and a reliable midrange-shot from Grant.
i think my team is capable to pick apart any defense with these kind of well-rounded skill-sets. For all the good points there might be - in absolute terms - a weakness to my offense: Bird doesn't have McHale in this case. Grant is not that kind of supper-efficient post-player... but then comes Bernard King off the bench with his virtually unstoppable post game from the baseline! He would be another exceptional offensive force... think about it, he was so hard to stop when entire defenses focused on him - now imagine playing him alongside with Bird and co. Majerle and Harper can't be left alone either. They are great shooters! And then there is the finesse game of Vlade, another excellent passer and team player... comparable to 86 Walton.
Let's suppose any given opponent fought bravely to force a thrilling endgame... my team is led by one of the "clutchest" players ever! Is there a better finisher at the end of games than Larry? Only that he is accompanied by a Mark Price and Manu Ginobili... Defenses should be overburdened... and you can't really afford to foul them, because both Price and Bird are 90% FT shooters...
I think my team would excel in the half-court, but could also run the fast-break effectively because of a) dominant defensive rebounding, b) the occasional steals from Manu, Larry etc., c) all of the starting 5 can run the floor, d) passing, passing, passing, passing... did I mention, passing? A Price-Ginobili-Bird fast-break would be pretty scary, with two super-athlete big men in addition... Bernard King was also a freakishly good player in the transition... It is all situational, and my players - especially Larry - would make the best decision in the heat of the game.
I like my team, it would be fun to watch. And I trust the fierce competitiveness and high basketball iq of BIRD, Ginobili and co.
That's the image of my team in broad lines.
PC Board All Time Fantasy Draft:
PG Mark Price (92-94) SG Manu Ginobili (05-07) SF Larry Bird (84-86) PF Horace Grant (93-95) C Dwight Howard (09-11) + Bernard King (82-84) Vlade Divac (95-97) Derek Harper (88-90) Dan Majerle (91-93) Josh Smith (10-12)
MisterHibachi wrote:Wow, Kareem, Tmac and Ray. At first glance, that seems unstoppable. Let's see what ThunderDan9 comes up with.
True, but I don't see anybody over there guarding Bird.
Comments to rationalize bad contracts - 1) It's less than the MLE 2) He can be traded later 3) It's only __% of the cap 4) The cap is going up 5) It's only __ years 6) He's a good mentor/locker room guy
I just love the matchups. T-Mac vs Bird, Porter vs Price, Allen vs Manu, Dwight arguably putting up a fight against Kareem, this is what basketball is all about.
I have no clue who's going to go through but needless to say it'll be fun.
I don't think Dwight could check Kareem at all. But I don't see any one checking Bird on the other side, like Laimbeer said. I would love to watch a team with Bird and Manu.
My one criticism for either team: I think both teams have weaknesses defensively.
I think Kareem is a vastly overrated defensive player, and there's really not many good defenders around him. Brand was solid, and Chandler is another overrated but solid defensive player. I'm not trying to say Kareem was bad, I think he was quite good, but if we go by accolades, some people get the idea that he was a Duncan/KG/Robinson/Hakeem-level defender, and he just wasn't. I feel like his awareness on defense was lacking when compared to the true elites on defense. Nance is another good defender. I'm not saying they won't be a good defensive team, because all of their big men are solid, but unremarkable defensive players. And on the perimeter, the only good perimeter defender I can point to is Batum off the bench.
For ThunderDan9, I like Dwight Howard on defense, but similar to how I felt about Kareem, I feel like he's an overrated defensive player. They did a block study a few years back, and Dwight came up to be the least valuable shot blocker in the league, because he just swatted everything out of bounds instead of trying to retain possession. And his man defense in this case is going to be worthless, because I don't see him doing anything against Kareem. And I think it's a mistake to use Bird at SF, I'd much prefer the lineups with Bird at PF. I just don't think Bird is quick enough to play adequate defense at SF (that's why McHale covered the SFs), especially when you have T-Mac on the other team. That's a huge mismatch.
Similarly, I hate Josh Smith playing SF as well, because he's a PF that can't shoot, so he's going to cause huge spacing issues at SF. Also, he's routinely burned by opposing SFs, because he's just not quick enough to stay in front of them. Again, Smith defending T-Mac is a mismatch.
So I think both teams will really struggle containing the perimeter in this case. So you should see high-scoring games from pretty much every perimeter star involved, which would be really fun. Curious to see the gameplan from john248 though.
The general team concept was formed mainly because KAJ was the 1st pick. Have a good big, pair him with a wing, and put a couple shooters out there. This team has a great half-court offense with KAJ in the inside, Nance being able to hit jumpers and finish, TMac with his play making and ability to ISO, Jesus Shuttlesworth with is GOAT shooting, and Porter with his also excellent shooting, PG ability, and off-ball ability.
STARTERS
Spoiler:
CENTER - KAJ (80-82) was my 1st pick and 1 of about 3 centers who can legitimately carry an offense in this draft. I have the last 2 years of his prime and 1 year with slight decline though his offense largely remained the same which includes an MVP and two all-NBA 1st team honors. His scoring ability with his sky hook, shot blocking ability, great passing, and known playoff performer. http://www.basketball-reference.com/pla ... lka01.html
2ND BIG - Larry Nance (87-89) is another underrated player that I have. He offers a mid-range shot, able to post-up, and is a great finisher who plays efficiently on the offensive end. I don't want to overrate his offense as he's not much of a creator but will benefit from the ball handers and offensive initiators on the roster. Nance's was a very good defender who can also guard 3's, a great shot blocker, and a solid rebounder. He was also a good help defender and a great teammate who didn't mind lesser roles, and his numbers were also not impacted much going from a faster Suns team to the slower paced Cavs where his averages of about 19ppg, 9reb, 3ast, 2.5blk, 59%TS remained the same.
WING/POINT - TMac! (01-03) As we all know, he has an incredible peak season that rates just below Kobe's 08 and Wade's 09. We also know that the 2 seasons before that were very good but not as great. Still, as a wing player, he's what you want in a guy who can create shots for himself and a play maker who can open up opportunities for his teammates. He was a solid 37.8% from beyond the arc from 01 to 03 however he shot more behind the arc while getting better and went to the line more in 03 which led to a bump in his TS%; still he was good ball handler, passer, rebounder at his position. http://www.basketball-reference.com/pla ... atr01.html
SHOOTING GUARD - Ray Allen (00-02) is the GOAT 3PT shooter. He's not as 1-dimensional as he can handle the ball and be a play maker when he has to. Still, we're talking about a guy who really made his living running off screens & hitting those corner 3 pointers and an underrated finisher. http://www.basketball-reference.com/pla ... nra02.html
POINT - Terry Porter (91-93) is an underrated PG who rarely gets talked about. He's comparable to Chauncey Billups. During those 3 years, he averaged about 17.7pts, 3.5treb, 6.3ast, 1.6stl, at roughly 57-63%TS. Doesn't look all that inspiring until you look at how his game rose in the playoffs where all his per game numbers went up which includes breaking 20ppg. What's more astounding is that his efficiency went up during these deep playoff runs at over 60-64%TS. This is one of those guys who can step up in the playoffs where he can play in the half court as well as run when he played on a Portland team that was top 5 in pace during those years. Not just a shooter as he can initiate the offense and was a good passer too. http://www.basketball-reference.com/pla ... ete01.html
BENCH
Spoiler:
CENTER - Tyson Chandler (11-13) is 1 of 2 players I had targeted for my bench. A former DPOY who's a good rebounder and solid shot blocker, he's also good at help defense and defending the PnR. A big reason I chose him is because he knows what his limitations are on offense. He doesn't hold onto the ball too long nor does he ask for plays and is good at setting screens. This is important for ball movement.
POWER FORWARD - Elton Brand (05-07) can also start as PF on this team. Prior to the 06 season, he got in shape and developed a good mid-range jumper out to 17 feet which shows in the stats. Compared to 05, his eFG% went up 24% in 06 and 30% in 07 which is remarkable; his TS% in 05 was 55.4% (+2.4%) to 58% TS in 06 (+4.5%) and 58.1% TS in 07 (+4%). Just to give additional information, his jumpers were 7% better. This allows him to space the floor when needed or hit the low post where he was also effective and a good offensive rebounder. Even though he is 6'8", he had a standing reach of 9'2" which is what most centers are which made him a good shot blocker. http://www.basketball-reference.com/pla ... del01.html
SMALL FORWARD - Nicolas Batum (12-14) may be viewed as a player who might have been a reach. He's a good man defender but not so good as a help defender. Hopefully having Chandler and Nance behind him will mask some of that. I took him mainly due to his 3 point shooting, ball handling, and passing. Once he was out of McMillan's system where he was nothing but a corner or wing 3 point shooter, Stotts made better use of his ability to initiate the offense, make the pass to the roll man, and run around the court for the open 3. He was averaging about 5 assist last season, and this season he's tied with Lillard with the team lead at 5.7. I do like his ability to do a bit of everything while scoring efficiently.
SHOOTING GUARD - Michael Redd (04-06) is the 2nd guy who I wanted on the bench who had some great scoring years. As Allen's back-up, the same plays can be called for him when it comes to running around screens to get an open 3. He's also able to get his own shot off. In 04 when league average TS% was a low 51.6%, he was at 54.4%, and by 06 he was at 57.4% (league 53.5%).
POINT GUARD - Derrick Rose (09-11) is almost a pity pick since I didn't want to see him go undrafted even though this was really a series of years where we saw him progress and peak. I mainly chose him due to his ability to drive the lane, good passing, and good decision making. Even though I wanted Ainge here, I still value Rose's ability to create offensive opportunities when things break down.
ADDITIONAL PLAYER NOTES
Spoiler:
Below quote shows Porter's leadership which might help keep KAJ a bit more motivated on the defensive end though KAJ was plenty motivated in the playoffs.
"He came to work and did his job," McMillan said. "He didn't care when other people got the attention. He played the game hard and he played it the right way. One area where I think we were alike is that he wouldn't be afraid to say what needed to be said -- whether it was to an all-star or a young guy who needed to be led."
I'm actually happy with the way my team turned out. The only 2 players I think I missed out on given their draft positions were Rasheed and Deron Williams but no big deal. I feel I have the best offense in the league by being both excellent in the half court and fast break. We've seen KAJ with the Lakers where Magic would push the ball up-court and KAJ would finish, even after an in bounds. Porter and Nance have both excelled and kept their averages in both high and slower offenses. And well, TMac and Allen speak for themselves. KAJ and Porter were both incredible playoff performers. Allen kept up his level of play in the playoffs, and Nance was very efficient. TMac was also solid, but hopefully he makes it out of the 1st this time around. The offense is built around KAJ and TMac.
Having a ball handers and shooters in TMac, Porter, and Allen gives this team versatility in its different looks forcing the opposing defender to do different things each time down the court. I do like the fact that I can have either Porter or Allen (both 40%+ from 3) run the same plays for catch and shoot 3's as they are both used to running off screens. Porter or Allen can run the baseline off a triple screen for a 3 point shot or run past a double screen near the baseline for a corner 3. Having a couple guys who can do this puts tremendous pressure on defenses. Obviously with TMac, it's a little different where he can still run baseline up to the wing, but a high screen will likely need to be set to take advantage of his slashing ability. Each of these 3 can take advantage of down screens & curls off the baseline or a hand off from the high post to make the pass to the roll man, pass to the spot up shooter, or attack the basket though this will mainly be done with Porter and TMac. I don't even mind King or Bird guarding TMac either. Yea, Bird is a solid help defender. TMac is going to blow by him like a turn style. There's no McHale here to help him out. I expect Dwight to be in foul trouble at times too. Hello Floppy...I mean Vlade. Someone tell Vlade that he'll get fined for that now.
Nance will mainly be used as a finisher, cutter, and someone who can hit a wide open jumper. Admittedly, he'll likely disappear even if he did do well on offense during the years selected, playoffs included.
Kareem...he's going to abuse Dwight. Those DPOYs aren't going to help Dwight here; he won't be able to single cover KAJ. Due to Kareem's passing ability, this offense can be run through him where it may seem like an ISO play for him when it's really just a feint to set up a play somewhere else. Of course during his post play, he'll score almost at will with his skyhook.
The bench players will fit in well too. Redd and Batum can run similar screen plays. I know Rose struggled in the playoffs due to teams keying in on him. Things will be a little better this time around with better shooters around him (Porter, Allen, Redd, Batum) and other ball handlers. He won't have to worry about someone doubling off of say Ronnie Brewer. This will give him more room and less pressure to make some plays. Chandler can just be a finisher. I do like Chandler on offense though. He doesn't hold onto the ball and just passes it off, so he won't be a ball stopper. This team does have scoring power off the bench with Redd, Brand, and Rose to go along with defense led by Chandler
As a Laker fan, I do like the Triangle Offense which happens to be the perfect offense for this team once KAJ was drafted by me where there is constant motion. The Spurs happen to run some triangle sets too. With this offense, we need guys who make good decisions, ball handle, and can pass which each of my 3 perimeter players can do.
The transition offense is deadly too. Porter and TMac can both lead the fast break, and this version of Ray has handles too. Ray and Porter can both trail or run to the corners for 3's. I have excellent finishers in TMac, KAJ, and Nance.
DEFENSE - Thib's Defense
I really like Thib's defense. All ball handlers will be denied the middle of the floor and icing the PnR/Ps. Defenders will go over the top of screens. I do like the fact that I can funnel guys to Chandler, KAJ, Nance, and Brand where they can alter shots. Nance shared some inside info about Price back from their playing days together where he called Price soft. I don't blame him since Price has had an ORTG less than 100 for more years than not in the playoffs including a couple of the year's selected. He'll be defended similar to how the Bulls did during that time period where he'll see a full court press in the 2nd half of games and see pressure on ball which Porter, who's a solid/good defender, can do.
Manu is tough to guard since he can also bring the ball up and loves those high screens. I do feel icing the picks here will help since I have good length with my centers and PFs. The defense is a bit more willing to give up long 2s from the left side since he isn't as good there. Allen will see all the time guarding Manu. While he's not an impressive defender, at least he won't feel out of place chasing a guy off ball.
There's no real answer for Bird. Yea, the guy is going to curl along the baseline for some post-ups or stand out on the perimeter and generally just do this thing. Bird will see both Nance and TMac guarding him with Nance taking more time with Bird. The strategy is to pressure Bird as much as possible and make him work hard. Nance is an inch taller with lots of length, very athletic, and a very good defender. Probably front Bird a good amount. TMac was also a plus defender during this time too. During the home games, I'll set up free beer night for anyone from Indiana at a local bar and find a troll fan, Mike Harlow, to instigate a fight. Just sayin...
Having TMac on Grant for extended periods will hurt at times when it comes to defensive rebounding. The strategy is hopefully better team rebounding and to have Nance focus a bit more on the defensive boards. Nance had to be his teams' primary shot blocker (with him and Hot Rod covering for Daugherty and his time with the Suns). He won't have to really have that role with this team. Hell, I'd rather see Grant try to post up more often than to see Bird go nuts. Depending on where Grant is, TMac play the passing lanes at times. I'm not even sure how much playing time Grant would get.
Dwight will see mostly single coverage unless he finds the ball in his hands where the offense breaks down, and an easy double can go to him to force turnovers. My guess is he'll be mainly a finisher on this team. But again, I invite the post-up opportunities for Dwight. In the paint but outside the restricted area, Dwight is roughly a 41% shooter. IMO, he's pretty much the equivalent to my back-up center for this team although he does bring offensive rebounding opportunities. IMO, he'll struggle in the post going up against someone taller and more seasoned than him.
I've been mainly talking about his starters up to this point. Bernard King is pretty scary on offense too. If he's in with the reserves, doubles can be sent from Mr. I Love Jumpers Josh Smith's guy where the hope is the rotations will be good enough to recover. If he's in with some of the starters depending on who's on the floor, sounds crazy, but some of the doubles will be off of him since King doesn't stretch the floor to the 3 where he'll likely be on the weakside which will require a couple passes to get him the ball.
My team will more than be able to outscore this team while playing reliable defense. If Grant goes on the bench when Bird slides to PF, TMac will still continue to have a field day. King also operates out of the post a lot which will leave less opportunities from there for Bird since Howard is also down there. If Smith is playing, he doesn't offer anything good other than as a finisher in transition. KAJ owns this series. I have a balance of inside and outside where I have shooters who are lights out beyond the arc. While Bird will get his, I don't see him doing enough in this series even during these great years though I'd probably pick 85-87 instead. Price wasn't impressive in playoff formats either with sub 100 ORTGs where there were a couple times he was benched closing the 4th quarter. It's not like Price and Ginobili can log heavy minutes too where there will be more separation when his bench comes in.
ROTATIONS
PG: Terry Porter (33), Derrick Rose (15) SG: Ray Allen (35), Michael Redd (9), Tracy McGrady (4) SF: Tracy McGrady (35), Michael Redd (9), Nicolas Batum (4) PF: Larry Nance (33), Elton Brand (15) C: Kareem Abdul Jabbar (37), Tyson Chandler (11)
Either one of KAJ or TMac will be on the floor at all times.
Opponents initial strategy below, also 2nd post in this thread:
Spoiler:
1st round: ThunderDan Suns
Howard/Divac Grant/Bird/Josh Smith Bird/King/Josh Smith Ginobili/Majerle Price/D. Harper
I wanted to build a team that feels like a real team. A team that I could envision as a functioning unit, rather than a random assembly of individually good players. I mainly tried to draft players who understand the team concept, are unselfish (!), and do whatever it takes to win. That may be a generalization, but still... No ego clashes, no headcases (I don't think there would be too much problem with even Bernard, he would like the opportunity to finally play WITH a TALENTED team).
I did not drafted defensive specialists in the mold of Bowen or Ben Wallace... the defense would be still pretty good, with a true defensive anchor in the middle (3*DPOY Dwight) surrounding him with players who again understand the importance of team play on the defensive end as well. Team defense should be great with high basketball iq guys like Bird, Ginobili, Grant, who are also capable defenders individually. Put in tenacious defenders like Majerle and Derek Harper and Josh Smith or even smart Divac... I don't think it would be pleasant to play against my team. This team would also generate some steals, and the rebounding of my starting 5 would be one of the best in the whole field (maybe even #1?). All in all: Bird is paired with an all-time great defensive center, a true difference maker, and gets another great defensive big man in Grant who is quick and athletic enough to switch the forwards of the opposing team occacionally, and good perimeter defenders like Gino, Majerle, Harper... with the fregoli man Josh Smith.
My offense should be a nice balance as well. My team is led of course by arguably the best offensive player ever, 3*MVP Larry Bird. I don't want to go into details how many ways he can hurt the opponent... There is Dwight Howard in the middle, who doesn't shoot a great many volume of shots, but that's not a bad thing considering that my team features plenty of offensive threats... so his relative flaw (not a dominant scorer with polished offensive moves, like a Hakeem or Kareem) almost turns into a benefit. As we all know, he is still a big threat on the court due to his extreme athleticism, and he would have a) plenty of space because he is surrounded by 3 excellent shooters (Bird, Price, Ginobili) and 1 good midrange shooter (Grant), and b) when the situation occurs, he would be fed by excellent passers (again: Bird, Price, Ginobili) to score easy buckets.
And here we are at a big forte of my team: passing. Bird is the best passer at his position, prime Price is a great playmaker, a sharp passer and Ginobili is also an elite passer at his position. Grant is no slouch in that department, either. The ball movement should be smooth, and would consistently create good scoring opportunities. Great passing also makes it very hard to double-team any of my key players... and Bird, Price and even Ginobili are not easy to guard 1-on-1. As a rule, Price is the player who initiates the attack, breaking down the first line of defense... a pick-and-roll with Bird would be pretty unstoppable, lol. And then comes Bird with his unpredictible game, Manu driving to the basket, dishing out to Price or Bird, or making a cut to the basket scoring of a Bird-pass from the post, the creativity (!), passing and shooting of my players would open so many possibilites. Shooting: with some cheating, I almost have TWO 50-40-90 guys... that's insane. Add Manu and a reliable midrange-shot from Grant.
i think my team is capable to pick apart any defense with these kind of well-rounded skill-sets. For all the good points there might be - in absolute terms - a weakness to my offense: Bird doesn't have McHale in this case. Grant is not that kind of supper-efficient post-player... but then comes Bernard King off the bench with his virtually unstoppable post game from the baseline! He would be another exceptional offensive force... think about it, he was so hard to stop when entire defenses focused on him - now imagine playing him alongside with Bird and co. Majerle and Harper can't be left alone either. They are great shooters! And then there is the finesse game of Vlade, another excellent passer and team player... comparable to 86 Walton.
Let's suppose any given opponent fought bravely to force a thrilling endgame... my team is led by one of the "clutchest" players ever! Is there a better finisher at the end of games than Larry? Only that he is accompanied by a Mark Price and Manu Ginobili... Defenses should be overburdened... and you can't really afford to foul them, because both Price and Bird are 90% FT shooters...
I think my team would excel in the half-court, but could also run the fast-break effectively because of a) dominant defensive rebounding, b) the occasional steals from Manu, Larry etc., c) all of the starting 5 can run the floor, d) passing, passing, passing, passing... did I mention, passing? A Price-Ginobili-Bird fast-break would be pretty scary, with two super-athlete big men in addition... Bernard King was also a freakishly good player in the transition... It is all situational, and my players - especially Larry - would make the best decision in the heat of the game.
I like my team, it would be fun to watch. And I trust the fierce competitiveness and high basketball iq of BIRD, Ginobili and co.
Nice writeup by TD, then an even stronger one by John. Right now I'm leaning toward John's team because of the coverage issues with Tmac and, even though I'm a much stronger Dwight supporter as an all-time great than most, Kareem's game doesn't play to Dwight's strengths as a defender. I like John's bench mob better as well, particularly inside. I think Dwight, Grant, and Bird win the rebounding battle easily which is a strong point in TD's favor and both Kareem and Tmac can be in or out of games mentally though they always get their numbers which I think tends to make John's team less than the sum of their parts but, still, John just writes it up a bit too tough at this point.
Vote John, subject to change if TD comes up with a good rebuttal.
“Most people use statistics like a drunk man uses a lamppost; more for support than illumination,” Andrew Lang.
It's going to be beautiful offense either way. Just comes down to who can exploit the bigger mismatches. I think Kareem on Dwight is the biggest mismatch of this series. The kind of guy that would bother Kareem is someone who is just a physical behemoth who can bully Kareem and has the length to challenge his shot...someone like Shaq or Wilt. Dwight's not that guy.
And I like T-Mac more than most. He's kind of a douche off the court, but on the court, he's an unselfish player. Excellent passer, and obviously a great scorer who can create his own shot with ease. He's a do-it-all player, who can help you rebound the ball, and when motivated, he can play good defense. I'll assume that he is motivated, because T-Mac has always risen to the occasion (generally, I kind of blame him for the Rockets losing in 07) in the playoffs.
Putting him against Grant and Nance on Bird is kind of a mistake imo though. I think a motivated T-Mac is a much better option to go up against Bird, and you definitely don't want him wasting his energy having to battle Grant down low. I think Bird has a pretty huge series either way though, so it doesn't really matter, but I think ThunderDan's team has more success on the boards as a result of the T-Mac/Grant matchup. Of course, T-Mac has a huge offensive advantage either way, whether he's matched up with Grant or Bird.
But the Manu/Bird duo just has me smh when I think about how awesome the passing and the overall IQ of the team is going to be. As well as the hectic, hair-is-on-fire kind of play that's going to be happening. Add in the shooting and overall excellent PG play of Mark Price, and it's getting harder and harder to pick against this team. I just hope Dwight is used in the right way, as a finisher and not really as a self-creator.
But then I look at the other team, and it's a lot like Notanoob's starting lineup, with the two great scorers/shooters/slashers in T-Mac and Allen (a la Pierce and Carter) next to the dominant big man that's going to demand doubles or else he'll destroy you 1 on 1 but is also a solid passer, Kareem (a la Hakeem). And then you have a hard-nosed defensive PG that can also stroke the 3, Porter (a la Mookie). Just excellent synergy and balance in the lineup, as well as a clear heirarchy (Kareem and T-Mac are going to run the offense, with Allen as the tertiary option spacing the floor and running his man ragged around screens, Porter as the reliable ball handler that initiates the sets and spaces the floor, and then you have a PF that can stroke the midrange jumper and pull a big man out of the paint in Nance).
I think the starters are a push in overall effectiveness to be perfectly honest. You have the two ATGs in Kareem and Bird, and I think their impact will cancel each other out, and everywhere you look, you'll see high IQ play, good shooting, and great passing (Manu, Price, T-Mac, Allen). The big question mark to me is going to be Dwight, who I don't think will have a particularly good series, because I think Kareem will have his number, but he can also do a good job of finishing plays around the rim and thrive off the creation of Bird/Price/Manu. Just a great series of the two lineups just going back and forth. I don't see this being a defensive battle...both teams are just too good offensively.
So it has to be decided by the bench units. And I just LOVE john248's bench. Derrick Rose is a super underrated pickup. Even in 09 and 10, when he wasn't really one of the better players in the league just yet...being used as a bench dynamo to penetrate and attack a defense is PERFECT for him. And then you have the Ray Allen clone in Michael Redd who can continue to stroke the 3 and run off curls when Allen heads to the bench. And yes, you obviously lose a ton of offense with Chandler instead of Kareem...but I really like Chandler's role here. A finisher, an offensive rebounder, and a guy who can hold down the defense (although I already mentioned that I think he's overrated). Batum, that's a guy that can check Bird better than anyone else on the team, and he can hit the 3. And Elton Brand is a really underrated player imo, a very solid defender who can hit the midrange J and is also a capable post scorer. He gives you that post option when Kareem is on the bench, and he could also further space the floor for you.
ThunderDan's bench is obviously really good too, beginning with Bernard King, a super explosive scorer coming in as the sparkplug 6th man. You also have Derek Harper, Vlade, Majerle, and Smith as defensive guys. I just don't love the offense the way I love john248's bench, which has a great defensive group as well.
THIS was the toughest matchup to choose by far. This really came down to the role players for me, because looking at the starting lineups, how do you really decide between a core of Bird/Manu/Howard and Kareem/T-Mac/Allen? PFs like Grant and Nance? PGs like Price and Porter? The benches are both strong of course, I just think you get a better balance and higher level of play with guys like Rose, Redd, Batum, Brand, and Chandler. They're like the perfect replacements for the starters. I mean, just look at that all bench lineup anyway...that would be a damn good team on both sides of the ball.
therealbig3 wrote:Both teams look exceptionally dangerous.
For ThunderDan9, I like Dwight Howard on defense, but similar to how I felt about Kareem, I feel like he's an overrated defensive player. They did a block study a few years back, and Dwight came up to be the least valuable shot blocker in the league, because he just swatted everything out of bounds instead of trying to retain possession. And his man defense in this case is going to be worthless, because I don't see him doing anything against Kareem. And I think it's a mistake to use Bird at SF, I'd much prefer the lineups with Bird at PF. I just don't think Bird is quick enough to play adequate defense at SF (that's why McHale covered the SFs), especially when you have T-Mac on the other team. That's a huge mismatch.
you are completely wrong about Dwight Howard. yes, the study showed that he swatted people out of bounds but it also showed that contrary to what people think, it's better to swat people out of bounds because those plays end up being atrocious efficiency wise. they studied how many points they were scoring per 100 possessions after those swatted shots and well, they were inefficient to say the least.
also if you think that Dwight swatting shots away is the primary impact of his defense then you need to re-think your concept of team defense. whether Dwights two shots a game out of bounds or inbounds shouldn't impact the course of the game and he wouldn't even be a great defensive presence to Begin with. the reason why he is so great is because he intimidates people from driving down the lane and locks up defensive glass (his teams were consistently high team drb% despite playing without a PF and with bad rebounding guards, Dwight alone locked up defensive glass for his team).
that being said, I kinda agree with you about Kareem having his way with Dwight. Dwight isn't physical enough when fighting for post position and those were people who Kareem had trouble with. a guy like Rodman or Oakley would be great defenders against Kareem, Dwights length and shotblocking can't impact the skyhook though.
I think they key element of this matchup is what ThunderDan is going to do with Bird on the defensive end. he cannot guard TMac so who is he gonna guard?
Quotatious wrote: Bastillon is Hakeem. Combines style and substance.
OK, john248 (j) obviously made a good job with his drafting, and his write-up is even better: great. It's an enjoyable read, I can't compete with that.
But I firmly believe my team can.
Of course, j overstated some of his team's strengths, and downplayed some of my players - but that was exactly is his job.
So, first of all, here is the first impression of my team, already quoted in the 2nd post. Just to bring it in one place:
Spoiler:
ThunderDan Suns
Howard/Divac Grant/Bird/Josh Smith Bird/King/Josh Smith Ginobili/Majerle Price/D. Harper
I wanted to build a team that feels like a real team. A team that I could envision as a functioning unit, rather than a random assembly of individually good players. I mainly tried to draft players who understand the team concept, are unselfish (!), and do whatever it takes to win. That may be a generalization, but still... No ego clashes, no headcases (I don't think there would be too much problem with even Bernard, he would like the opportunity to finally play WITH a TALENTED team).
I did not drafted defensive specialists in the mold of Bowen or Ben Wallace... the defense would be still pretty good, with a true defensive anchor in the middle (3*DPOY Dwight) surrounding him with players who again understand the importance of team play on the defensive end as well. Team defense should be great with high basketball iq guys like Bird, Ginobili, Grant, who are also capable defenders individually. Put in tenacious defenders like Majerle and Derek Harper and Josh Smith or even smart Divac... I don't think it would be pleasant to play against my team. This team would also generate some steals, and the rebounding of my starting 5 would be one of the best in the whole field (maybe even #1?). All in all: Bird is paired with an all-time great defensive center, a true difference maker, and gets another great defensive big man in Grant who is quick and athletic enough to switch the forwards of the opposing team occacionally, and good perimeter defenders like Gino, Majerle, Harper... with the fregoli man Josh Smith.
My offense should be a nice balance as well. My team is led of course by arguably the best offensive player ever, 3*MVP Larry Bird. I don't want to go into details how many ways he can hurt the opponent... There is Dwight Howard in the middle, who doesn't shoot a great many volume of shots, but that's not a bad thing considering that my team features plenty of offensive threats... so his relative flaw (not a dominant scorer with polished offensive moves, like a Hakeem or Kareem) almost turns into a benefit. As we all know, he is still a big threat on the court due to his extreme athleticism, and he would have a) plenty of space because he is surrounded by 3 excellent shooters (Bird, Price, Ginobili) and 1 good midrange shooter (Grant), and b) when the situation occurs, he would be fed by excellent passers (again: Bird, Price, Ginobili) to score easy buckets.
And here we are at a big forte of my team: passing. Bird is the best passer at his position, prime Price is a great playmaker, a sharp passer and Ginobili is also an elite passer at his position. Grant is no slouch in that department, either. The ball movement should be smooth, and would consistently create good scoring opportunities. Great passing also makes it very hard to double-team any of my key players... and Bird, Price and even Ginobili are not easy to guard 1-on-1. As a rule, Price is the player who initiates the attack, breaking down the first line of defense... a pick-and-roll with Bird would be pretty unstoppable, lol. And then comes Bird with his unpredictible game, Manu driving to the basket, dishing out to Price or Bird, or making a cut to the basket scoring of a Bird-pass from the post, the creativity (!), passing and shooting of my players would open so many possibilites. Shooting: with some cheating, I almost have TWO 50-40-90 guys... that's insane. Add Manu and a reliable midrange-shot from Grant.
i think my team is capable to pick apart any defense with these kind of well-rounded skill-sets. For all the good points there might be - in absolute terms - a weakness to my offense: Bird doesn't have McHale in this case. Grant is not that kind of supper-efficient post-player... but then comes Bernard King off the bench with his virtually unstoppable post game from the baseline! He would be another exceptional offensive force... think about it, he was so hard to stop when entire defenses focused on him - now imagine playing him alongside with Bird and co. Majerle and Harper can't be left alone either. They are great shooters! And then there is the finesse game of Vlade, another excellent passer and team player... comparable to 86 Walton.
Let's suppose any given opponent fought bravely to force a thrilling endgame... my team is led by one of the "clutchest" players ever! Is there a better finisher at the end of games than Larry? Only that he is accompanied by a Mark Price and Manu Ginobili... Defenses should be overburdened... and you can't really afford to foul them, because both Price and Bird are 90% FT shooters...
I think my team would excel in the half-court, but could also run the fast-break effectively because of a) dominant defensive rebounding, b) the occasional steals from Manu, Larry etc., c) all of the starting 5 can run the floor, d) passing, passing, passing, passing... did I mention, passing? A Price-Ginobili-Bird fast-break would be pretty scary, with two super-athlete big men in addition... Bernard King was also a freakishly good player in the transition... It is all situational, and my players - especially Larry - would make the best decision in the heat of the game.
I like my team, it would be fun to watch. And I trust the fierce competitiveness and high basketball iq of BIRD, Ginobili and co.
That's pretty important to read in my opinion.
Now, the given matchup is obviously not easy for my team, because of T-Mac and KAJ. I envisioned the Price/Ginobili/Bird/Grant/Howard starting 5, and I will stick with it! Sure, in this particular series T-Mac won't be easy to contain, but let the other team defer to the strengths of mine! So in my mind, my forward rotation reamains roughly the same (see above): it's Bird/Grant as starters and as the main combo, with King as a 6th man, some heavy minutes of King/Bird, occasional minutes for Josh Smith. My other substitutions are self-explanatory, Harper back ups Price, Vlade back up Dwight. Majerle is Gino's back-up, with some situational appearance at SF. And I want as many minutes of Bird, as possible (without tiring him out... he was an extremely durable player though, capable of managing heavy minutes).
So, the depth charts look like this. Minutes are of course estimates, it's all situational.
PG: Mark Price (34), Derek Harper (14) SG: Manu Ginobili (32), Dan Majerle (16) SF: Larry Bird (24), Bernard King (22), Josh Smith (2) PF: Horace Grant (30), Larry Bird (16), Josh Smith (2) C: Dwight Howard (36), Vlade Divac (12)
One more thing: I'm not the coach of this team! I'm the General Manager, i assembled the players, but let someone being much more competent handle the coaching duties. I could live with Larry Bird as the coach of this team.
PC Board All Time Fantasy Draft:
PG Mark Price (92-94) SG Manu Ginobili (05-07) SF Larry Bird (84-86) PF Horace Grant (93-95) C Dwight Howard (09-11) + Bernard King (82-84) Vlade Divac (95-97) Derek Harper (88-90) Dan Majerle (91-93) Josh Smith (10-12)
My team is led of course by arguably the best offensive player ever, 3*MVP Larry Bird. I don't want to go into details how many ways he can hurt the opponent... There is Dwight Howard in the middle, who doesn't shoot a great many volume of shots, but that's not a bad thing considering that my team features plenty of offensive threats... so his relative flaw (not a dominant scorer with polished offensive moves, like a Hakeem or Kareem) almost turns into a benefit. As we all know, he is still a big threat on the court due to his extreme athleticism, and he would have a) plenty of space because he is surrounded by 3 excellent shooters (Bird, Price, Ginobili) and 1 good midrange shooter (Grant), and b) when the situation occurs, he would be fed by excellent passers (again: Bird, Price, Ginobili) to score easy buckets.
And here we are at a big forte of my team: passing. Bird is the best passer at his position, prime Price is a great playmaker, a sharp passer and Ginobili is also an elite passer at his position. Grant is no slouch in that department, either. The ball movement should be smooth, and would consistently create good scoring opportunities. Great passing also makes it very hard to double-team any of my key players... and Bird, Price and even Ginobili are not easy to guard 1-on-1. As a rule, Price is the player who initiates the attack, breaking down the first line of defense... a pick-and-roll with Bird would be pretty unstoppable, lol. And then comes Bird with his unpredictible game, Manu driving to the basket, dishing out to Price or Bird, or making a cut to the basket scoring of a Bird-pass from the post, the creativity (!), passing and shooting of my players would open so many possibilites. Shooting: with some cheating, I almost have TWO 50-40-90 guys... that's insane. Add Manu and a reliable midrange-shot from Grant.
i think my team is capable to pick apart any defense with these kind of well-rounded skill-sets. For all the good points there might be - in absolute terms - a weakness to my offense: Bird doesn't have McHale in this case. Grant is not that kind of supper-efficient post-player... but then comes Bernard King off the bench with his virtually unstoppable post game from the baseline! He would be another exceptional offensive force... think about it, he was so hard to stop when entire defenses focused on him - now imagine playing him alongside with Bird and co. Majerle and Harper can't be left alone either. They are great shooters! And then there is the finesse game of Vlade, another excellent passer and team player... comparable to 86 Walton.
Let's suppose any given opponent fought bravely to force a thrilling endgame... my team is led by one of the "clutchest" players ever! Is there a better finisher at the end of games than Larry? Only that he is accompanied by a Mark Price and Manu Ginobili... Defenses should be overburdened... and you can't really afford to foul them, because both Price and Bird are 90% FT shooters...
I think my team would excel in the half-court, but could also run the fast-break effectively because of a) dominant defensive rebounding, b) the occasional steals from Manu, Larry etc., c) all of the starting 5 can run the floor, d) passing, passing, passing, passing... did I mention, passing? A Price-Ginobili-Bird fast-break would be pretty scary, with two super-athlete big men in addition... Bernard King was also a freakishly good player in the transition... It is all situational, and my players - especially Larry - would make the best decision in the heat of the game.
I believe my team could challenge ardee's team for best (and most versatile) offense...
- Larry Bird! - I have the best passing team. Period. Bird-Ginobili-Price with the also competent Grant, then Divac comes in... Harper, Majerle, Josh Smith they are all good passers, I don't even regard King as a ball-hog, he will embrace the concept just fine. - Everyone can shoot. Excellent spacing. And that's a wonderful thing with a) mighty Dwight Howard in the middle, b) Larry Bird running the show, c) combining it with the aforementioned passing excellence. And the good news is: j's team in not even an outstanding defensive team. I see my half-court offense absolutely dominate. Even my bench players are goos shooters, with the exception of Smith). Nobody could be left alone! - I have players to beat their opponents one-on-one (Bird, Manu, Price, King), and j can't really afford to double-team: see above. - Fast-breaks. The more I look at it, the more deadly it seems. It could be another dangerous weapon: great defensive rebounding (+ some steals), then whoever gets the ball, be it Bird, Gino or Price, they are terrific in the open court with their quick decisions, creativity, ball-handling and passing (how many times did we see Larry or Manu making a half-court pass for an easy layup)... Grant and Howard run the floor like track athletes... then insert King. It could be an effective weapon in this series, regarding j's team is more of a traditional half-court offense. - Offensive rebounds. As j's team will not force transition game, my bigs could crash the boards more vigorously, and grab some orebs. Bird is a master in this category, as is Dwight Howard. Grant can get his, especially if T-Mac is switched on him (and Josh Smith in another great rebounder in that category). I'd like to point out, that while KAJ is still an amazing player, he is already in his mid-thirties... he had trouble with Moses Malone for example... peak Howard could bully him at times physically, overpowering him for some offensive boards.
As opposed to j, I don't see playing Bernard AND Larry problematic on half-court offense. King would have his trademark (unstoppable) baseline drive or he could post-up, no problem... that's the point of Bird's absolute offensive versatility and portability... he would know where to position himself with King in the game. If Bird is in the post, King is another deadly off-ball jump-shooter. I see them play some pick-n-roll with eachother... many problems would arise for the opponents. (For the whole time, imagine other excellent sharp-shooters on the perimeter - but not just sharp-shooters, they all-could drive to the basket - and Dwight lurking in the middle).
PC Board All Time Fantasy Draft:
PG Mark Price (92-94) SG Manu Ginobili (05-07) SF Larry Bird (84-86) PF Horace Grant (93-95) C Dwight Howard (09-11) + Bernard King (82-84) Vlade Divac (95-97) Derek Harper (88-90) Dan Majerle (91-93) Josh Smith (10-12)
He was harshly downplayed by j. He was rightly considered as one of the best PG's of his era (an overall great era with some amazing crop of floor generals - see my backup or j's starting PG). For this particular three-year stretch, Price was All-NBA First (!!) Team once, and All-NBA Third Team twice. His numbers were outstanding - remember, it's the defensive-minded Eastern Conference in an era that made life for perimiter players not easy (handchecking etc.).
If Porter rightly got his highlight vid, Price deserves his. (They both went somewhat under the radar. Fun fact: Price beat Porter in the finals of the 93 ASG-three-point contest.)
I think he was a great addition to my team in the 4th round. I mean, I pondered the idea of taking Stockton with my 2nd pick. His playoff ortg seems "cherry-picking" to me... His regular season ortg's were great, he had very high playoff ortgs's earlier... keep in mind: for this three-year stretch, they battled EACH AND EVERY YEAR none other than the Chicago Bulls.
Price is often compared to Nash, and not without a point. It would be really interesting to see them play in the same era. That's a pretty high ceiling. (Supported by the fact that he turned the Cavs into an Eastern powerhouse. His healthy three-year prime - the one that is used in this tournament - correlates with the Cav's successes.) We are talking about a franchise player here. Price is great at ball-handling, breaking down the defense, passing, shooting.... does it all. He certainly has the edge on Porter who isn't even significantly better than my back-up (!) PG, Derek Harper. (It's my turn now. ).
PC Board All Time Fantasy Draft:
PG Mark Price (92-94) SG Manu Ginobili (05-07) SF Larry Bird (84-86) PF Horace Grant (93-95) C Dwight Howard (09-11) + Bernard King (82-84) Vlade Divac (95-97) Derek Harper (88-90) Dan Majerle (91-93) Josh Smith (10-12)
I did not drafted defensive specialists in the mold of Bowen or Ben Wallace... the defense would be still pretty good, with a true defensive anchor in the middle (3*DPOY Dwight) surrounding him with players who again understand the importance of team play on the defensive end as well. Team defense should be great with high basketball iq guys like Bird, Ginobili, Grant, who are also capable defenders individually. Put in tenacious defenders like Majerle and Derek Harper and Josh Smith or even smart Divac... I don't think it would be pleasant to play against my team. This team would also generate some steals, and the rebounding of my starting 5 would be one of the best in the whole field (maybe even #1?). All in all: Bird is paired with an all-time great defensive center, a true difference maker, and gets another great defensive big man in Grant who is quick and athletic enough to switch the forwards of the opposing team occacionally, and good perimeter defenders like Gino, Majerle, Harper... with the fregoli man Josh Smith.
You can't have everything. So of course, my team is not the greatest defensive team in this tournament. But I stick to what I've already said (see spoilers). It's a good defensive unit!
I even admit, that In this series, two match-ups are not in my favor. T-Mac and KAJ. There's no denying it, they will cause problems.
Let's start with highlighting the fact, that while individually there are some (relatively!) problematic match-ups, my team defense should be awesome! I don't want to repeat myself, but just look at my starting 5. - 3*DPOY (!!) Howard in the middle. He made the Magic a defensive force playing alongside the likes of Turkoglu and Rashard Lewis and JJ Redick... He may not be the single greatest man-to-man defender, but he surely is a legitimite defensive anchor. - 3* All-D 2nd Team Horace Grant - can do everything, defends his man, helps out, protects the rim, grabs the rebound (was integral part of a dynasty, feared for its defense) - All-D 2nd Team (84) Larry Bird - I very much enjoyed that highlight vid on his defense in the other thread. His hand-eye coordination, smartness and tenacity don't need further discussion. He is a valuable defender, and an extremely valuable team defender. One more thing, it's Bird with the curly hair , not his 87-88 version, and FOR GOD's SAKE not his post-89 version. Steals. - Manu Ginobili didn't get All-D recognition, but he is without a doubt a very good defender (again, was integral part of a dynasty, feared for its defense). Makes life hard for even for a guy like Ray Allen, is a leech, closes the lanes, contests the shots, is good in transition D covering the holes, smartly positions himself to draw charges (YES, I HAVE 2 ALL-TIME GREAT FLOPPERS! That's an asset!). Steals. - Mark Price - nothing outstanding on D (he doesn't have to guard a Mafgic or Nash here!), but then again, in a team concept, he is still valuable because of his smartness. Steals.
I can live with it. The interior D of the starting 5 is nothing short of outstanding, the perimeter has some problems, but still have Manu. Now, let's take a look at the bench in terms of perimeter D: - 2*All-D 2nd Team Derek Harper - a tenacious defender, who was good enough to carry the Knicks in the 94 playoffs past his prime (we are using his younger version in Dallas!), certainly elevates defensive intensity further. Steals. - 2*All-D 2nd Team Dan Majerle - a big, strong, athletic guard, a workhorse, who gives you 100% effort and hustle. Another smart defender (No, not because he's white ) He could guard T-Mac for stretches, if it is needed (Harper-Ginobili-Majerle-Bird-Howard, that would still be competent on offense). - Josh Smith - hyper-athletic player, who is a valuable team defender in my opinion. Steals.
See, my squad doesn't look bad at all inidividually, but when it comes to team defense, its strength would cover up for some individual deficiencies.
An example. The ball gets to KAJ, the primary weapon og j's team. Howard is a great defender, but that's not the best part of my D: it's the fact that the auxilliary defenders are so smart and aware that it enables the closest player to help out on KAJ more than usual, pressing him, bother him... with my player's awareness it could work in some situations. I could see him being frustrated by a Bird-steal (while he is occupied with Howard on him). Divac in an underrated defender, by the way, very smart and tricky, I like the stylisctic contrast between him and Howard, this gives another angle against KAJ. Divac could even "get in his head".
T-Mac would be my biggest concern, but the team concept should again prevail. i don't think he would have to be guarded too vehemently on the perimeter, the main thing is to make it hard to attack the basket with his drives. He didn't take many threes in the 01-03 post-seasons, and those few he converted with pretty poor efficency (20% in 01, 31% in 02), I would rather let him beat from outside. That gives some well-needed room for Bird or whoever (King, Smith, Majerle, Grant) is guarding him, making it a little bit harder to get a decisive advantage with his step. And here comes Dwight's role: if his man-to-man defense wouldn't be as effective against KAJ as I thought, he's certainly an asset here, with his freakish athleticism and mobility. So, there is a 2nd line of defense, with the agile Grant-Howard duo, making it at least harder for T-Mac to make the best solution. All the other individual matchups, I shouldn't have to worry on.
Defense ends with securing the ball, the Bird-Grant-Howard lineup is one of the best rebounding unit in the whole tournament.
PC Board All Time Fantasy Draft:
PG Mark Price (92-94) SG Manu Ginobili (05-07) SF Larry Bird (84-86) PF Horace Grant (93-95) C Dwight Howard (09-11) + Bernard King (82-84) Vlade Divac (95-97) Derek Harper (88-90) Dan Majerle (91-93) Josh Smith (10-12)
I wanted to build a team that feels like a real team. A team that I could envision as a functioning unit, rather than a random assembly of individually good players. I mainly tried to draft players who understand the team concept, are unselfish (!), and do whatever it takes to win.
*** Let's suppose any given opponent fought bravely to force a thrilling endgame... my team is led by one of the "clutchest" players ever! Is there a better finisher at the end of games than Larry? Only that he is accompanied by a Mark Price and Manu Ginobili... Defenses should be overburdened... and you can't really afford to foul them, because both Price and Bird are 90% FT shooters...
I think it's an important note. I see a huge disparity here, that could work for my team.
My team is led by Larry Bird. Who is j's leader? KAJ may still have been the best Laker in 80-82, but he had Magic... now he only has T-Mac. In the years before Magic arrived, he seemed kind of lackluster, and didn't achieve anything. I agree with j, probably Porter is the best "guide by example" guide on his team... and it's not a good sign.
My starting 5 features a Celtic, a Spur, and a Bull. That's 3 dynasties of the big 4 of the last 30 years. They now the secret, they know how to win. You can't deny Bird's or Ginobili's tremendous intangibles. The unselfishness, the DRIVE to win, the mind game... it will infect the team in no time (especially with so many intelligent players from Grant to Divac).
And clutch... i have Mr. Clutch. The opponent knows it, makes everything to stop Bird, but maybe they make a mistake which would be punished by Ginobili (another all-time clutch player) and Price. And it's a premium to have two 90% FT shooters, especially in the last minute... one of them will be free, and Gino could put the ball in their hands. Foul. Two sure points, it's so valuable in a tense playoff game, leading a point or two.
All in all: I don't think j's team beats mine 4 times out of 7.
PC Board All Time Fantasy Draft:
PG Mark Price (92-94) SG Manu Ginobili (05-07) SF Larry Bird (84-86) PF Horace Grant (93-95) C Dwight Howard (09-11) + Bernard King (82-84) Vlade Divac (95-97) Derek Harper (88-90) Dan Majerle (91-93) Josh Smith (10-12)
PS: forget everything I wrote, I really don't know who would win in a real series. I'm extremely curious how the judges will see this clash of excellent offenses. This is the 2nd best part of this tourney: the judges' evaluation (the best part was the actual drafting process ).
PC Board All Time Fantasy Draft:
PG Mark Price (92-94) SG Manu Ginobili (05-07) SF Larry Bird (84-86) PF Horace Grant (93-95) C Dwight Howard (09-11) + Bernard King (82-84) Vlade Divac (95-97) Derek Harper (88-90) Dan Majerle (91-93) Josh Smith (10-12)
therealbig3 wrote: I just hope Dwight is used in the right way, as a finisher and not really as a self-creator.
That was exactly the idea. Quoting myself: There is Dwight Howard in the middle, who doesn't shoot a great many volume of shots, but that's not a bad thing considering that my team features plenty of offensive threats... so his relative flaw (not a dominant scorer with polished offensive moves, like a Hakeem or Kareem) almost turns into a benefit. As we all know, he is still a big threat on the court due to his extreme athleticism, and he would have a) plenty of space because he is surrounded by 3 excellent shooters (Bird, Price, Ginobili) and 1 good midrange shooter (Grant), and b) when the situation occurs, he would be fed by excellent passers (again: Bird, Price, Ginobili) to score easy buckets.
PC Board All Time Fantasy Draft:
PG Mark Price (92-94) SG Manu Ginobili (05-07) SF Larry Bird (84-86) PF Horace Grant (93-95) C Dwight Howard (09-11) + Bernard King (82-84) Vlade Divac (95-97) Derek Harper (88-90) Dan Majerle (91-93) Josh Smith (10-12)
No ego clashes, no headcases (I don't think there would be too much problem with even Bernard, he would like the opportunity to finally play WITH a TALENTED team).
that's insane. Add Manu and a reliable midrange-shot from Grant.
I'm the General Manager, i assembled the players, but let someone being much more competent handle the coaching duties. I could live with Larry Bird as the coach of this team. 
).