Team Defense Not Cutting It

[dolphinatik]

this 2006 defensive scheme seemed to be setup to let Wade play lazy putting the pressure on the bigs and the wings to hold the line. I was watching a Minny/Pelicans game the other night and saw good man to man defense. There is no reason why we cannot run man to man d and be successful with it. This would also make it easier on the bigs and wings and lend to more opportunities for help defense.

[KnockDownTheJ]

Panic thread 14.0 ...theres one for every loss.

Don't be delusional this has been a problem all season long, and it's apparent that it's not just the team "coasting." They're legitimately having issues playing defense like they used to, and "turning on the switch" may not work when you can no longer "turn on the switch" to the degree that the Heat used to even up to last season (although slippage was evident even then).

[heater4life]

Panic thread 14.0 ...theres one for every loss.

Don't be delusional this has been a problem all season long, and it's apparent that it's not just the team "coasting." They're legitimately having issues playing defense like they used to, and "turning on the switch" may not work when you can no longer "turn on the switch" to the degree that the Heat used to even up to last season (although slippage was evident even then).

Delusional are Heat fans that worry every night about a "flawed" defense that ranks top 10 in the league.

Delusional are Heat fans that believe every other team in the NBA is devoid of talent and incapable of having a good game at the expense of the Heat.

Delusional is the belief that the Miami Heat will be playing defense with playoff level intensity in February.

Thats delusion!

[fishfuego.]

Good topic.

This is exactly why there's a forum.
Now as far as the loss last night, yes it was the offense that did them in, however I can see the struggles playing the same headless chicken defensive style that was suited for defensive perimeter killers such as Wade and Bron.

No such thing any more with the state of Wade.
What this does is that it exposes Spo lack of overall coaching ability, and reveals what imo he truly Excels at.. assistant coaching.

Or more elegantly put it, a one trick pony.

[nbhadja]

Panic thread 14.0 ...theres one for every loss.

Don't be delusional this has been a problem all season long, and it's apparent that it's not just the team "coasting." They're legitimately having issues playing defense like they used to, and "turning on the switch" may not work when you can no longer "turn on the switch" to the degree that the Heat used to even up to last season (although slippage was evident even then).

Delusional are Heat fans that worry every night about a "flawed" defense that ranks top 10 in the league.

Delusional are Heat fans that believe every other team in the NBA is devoid of talent and incapable of having a good game at the expense of the Heat.

Delusional is the belief that the Miami Heat will be playing defense with playoff level intensity in February.

Thats delusion!

Was it delusional to see centers murder our soft sissy D in the playoffs? Remember what Hibbert/West and Duncan did to our defense last year? We nearly lost in 6 to SA because of our lack of centers and Indy nearly took us out as well. Remember how badly we were rebounded? This team would be unstoppable if they had a legit center rotation.

Our defensive system is the "make Hibbert look like prime Shaq" defense. It is year 4 of the big 3 and all we have is one decent center who can only play 15 mins a game max and could get injured any moment. That is just a poor job of roster management.

[heater4life]

Don't be delusional this has been a problem all season long, and it's apparent that it's not just the team "coasting." They're legitimately having issues playing defense like they used to, and "turning on the switch" may not work when you can no longer "turn on the switch" to the degree that the Heat used to even up to last season (although slippage was evident even then).

Delusional are Heat fans that worry every night about a "flawed" defense that ranks top 10 in the league.

Delusional are Heat fans that believe every other team in the NBA is devoid of talent and incapable of having a good game at the expense of the Heat.

Delusional is the belief that the Miami Heat will be playing defense with playoff level intensity in February.

Thats delusion!

Was it delusional to see centers murder our soft sissy D in the playoffs? Remember what Hibbert/West and Duncan did to our defense last year? We nearly lost in 6 to SA because of our lack of centers and Indy nearly took us out as well. Remember how badly we were rebounded? This team would be unstoppable if they had a legit center rotation.

Our defensive system is the "make Hibbert look like prime Shaq" defense. It is year 4 of the big 3 and all we have is one decent center who can only play 15 mins a game max and could get injured any moment. That is just a poor job of roster management.

Lmfao!

This system is in place to take advantage of our strengths which is still athleticism and positional flexibility. Centers have always taken advantage of our interior and will continue to do so, because we lack size, not because of our defensive system.

Poor roster management ???? You having F*$#^%$ Lebron James, Dwayne Wade, and Chris Bosh all on your roster at discounted rates and you want better roster management?

This isnt 2k, all teams have to have weaknesses. Ours is our interior defense, welcome to the real world.

[RexBoyWonder]

Panic thread 14.0 ...theres one for every loss.

Don't be delusional this has been a problem all season long, and it's apparent that it's not just the team "coasting." They're legitimately having issues playing defense like they used to, and "turning on the switch" may not work when you can no longer "turn on the switch" to the degree that the Heat used to even up to last season (although slippage was evident even then).

Delusional are Heat fans that worry every night about a "flawed" defense that ranks top 10 in the league.

Delusional are Heat fans that believe every other team in the NBA is devoid of talent and incapable of having a good game at the expense of the Heat.

Delusional is the belief that the Miami Heat will be playing defense with playoff level intensity in February.

Thats delusion!

We're 15th out of 30 teams on Defensive Rating. Defense is a real issue this year.

[heater4life]

Don't be delusional this has been a problem all season long, and it's apparent that it's not just the team "coasting." They're legitimately having issues playing defense like they used to, and "turning on the switch" may not work when you can no longer "turn on the switch" to the degree that the Heat used to even up to last season (although slippage was evident even then).

Delusional are Heat fans that worry every night about a "flawed" defense that ranks top 10 in the league.

Delusional are Heat fans that believe every other team in the NBA is devoid of talent and incapable of having a good game at the expense of the Heat.

Delusional is the belief that the Miami Heat will be playing defense with playoff level intensity in February.

Thats delusion!

We're 15th out of 30 teams on Defensive Rating. Defense is a real issue this year.

I was going by total points allowed. (top 10)

[heater4life]

D Wade 33.3 , Chris Bosh 31.5, Lebron 37.2, Battier 20.8, are all playing career lows in mpg. Ray Allen has seen a slight increase from 25.8 to 26.4.

Its important to note Wade has rested a good amount this year, Beasley hasnt become a steady presence off of the bench, and Haslem has regressed into non production; yet all these players are playing career lows in minutes. Our system is predicated on athleticism, when the minutes ramp up and the intensity increases, the defensive efficiency will rise.

You guys should know this, (im assuming we all watch these games obsessively) our defensive system requires hard, decisive defensive rotations (and by no means is it an easy system to play in). Its crazy to think this team is going to play with playoff intensity at this point in the season and after injury setbacks they've had in 2 consecutive postseasons. (Bosh, Wade)

[WD]

D Wade 33.3 , Chris Bosh 31.5, Lebron 37.2, Battier 20.8, are all playing career lows in mpg. Ray Allen has seen a slight increase from 25.8 to 26.4.

Its important to note Wade has rested a good amount this year, Beasley hasnt become a steady presence off of the bench, and Haslem has regressed into non production; yet all these players are playing career lows in minutes. Our system is predicated on athleticism, when the minutes ramp up and the intensity increases, the defensive efficiency will rise.

You guys should know this, (im assuming we all watch these games obsessively) our defensive system requires hard, decisive defensive rotations (and by no means is it an easy system to play in). Its crazy to think this team is going to play with playoff intensity at this point in the season and after injury setbacks they've had in 2 consecutive postseasons. (Bosh, Wade)

Said I was going to stay off the boards for a while, but I really don't understand(read bold) - So, let me see, these guys coasted in the UTAH game?

Can someone give a better argument without trotting out stats......we needed 6 points to win, Based on said stats, I wonder who on the floor in the 4th qtr could have gotten us 6 more points......intensity had nothing..IMO to do with UTAHS loss

[heater4life]

Said I was going to stay off the boards for a while, but I really don't understand(read bold) - So, let me see, these guys coasted in the UTAH game?

Can someone give a better argument without trotting out stats......we needed 6 points to win, Based on said stats, I wonder who on the floor in the 4th qtr could have gotten us 6 more points......intensity had nothing..IMO to do with UTAHS loss

Given this a general thread about the Miami Heat defense "not cutting it" my post was framed as such. But lets look at Utah specifically.

Your arguing about defensive ineptitude solely based on "we needed 6 points to win" as a rubric for the teams performance? Of course they played harder down the stretch, the game is on the line. None the less, there can be breakdowns. But that doesnt paint a picture for an entire game based on a stretch of play.

Every team in the NBA is going to to GIVE an opposing team an opportunity to exploit the defense, with the main efforts being focused to prevent the other teams strengths. (similarly to the way San Antonio clogged paint against the Heat and allowed open outside shooting, which Lebron exploited in game 7 of the finals)

Heres a shot chart for the game: http://scores.espn.go.com/nba/shotchart?gameId=400489628

You can see that the majority of the shots the Heat allowed vs Utah were from the perimeter. Many of which that were contested, especially in the 1st quarter. On the season Utah shoots 43%fg and 35%3pt, having an above average shooting night at 48% and 40%.

Do you really believe the Miami Heat are going to play the Utah Jazz in a February match up with the same intensity that they'll play Indiana in the ECF? Highly doubtful. Coupled with on off shooting night overall by the team, and there goes your 6 point loss.

Given your standards of arguing, Indiana is in for some trouble considering they blew a 17 point lead against Orlando last night. This is a marathon, not a race. Remember Lebron's Cleveland Cavs and recently the Bulls in the ECF. Regular season and playoffs are two separate entities.

[WD]

Said I was going to stay off the boards for a while, but I really don't understand(read bold) - So, let me see, these guys coasted in the UTAH game?

Can someone give a better argument without trotting out stats......we needed 6 points to win, Based on said stats, I wonder who on the floor in the 4th qtr could have gotten us 6 more points......intensity had nothing..IMO to do with UTAHS loss

Given this a general thread about the Miami Heat defense "not cutting it" my post was framed as such. But lets look at Utah specifically.

Your arguing about defensive ineptitude solely based on "we needed 6 points to win" as a rubric for the teams performance? Of course they played harder down the stretch, the game is on the line. None the less, there can be breakdowns. But that doesnt paint a picture for an entire game based on a stretch of play.

Every team in the NBA is going to to GIVE an opposing team an opportunity to exploit the defense, with the main efforts being focused to prevent the other teams strengths. (similarly to the way San Antonio clogged paint against the Heat and allowed open outside shooting, which Lebron exploited in game 7 of the finals)

Heres a shot chart for the game: http://scores.espn.go.com/nba/shotchart?gameId=400489628

You can see that the majority of the shots the Heat allowed vs Utah were from the perimeter. Many of which that were contested, especially in the 1st quarter. On the season Utah shoots 43%fg and 35%3pt, having an above average shooting night at 48% and 40%.

Do you really believe the Miami Heat are going to play the Utah Jazz in a February match up with the same intensity that they'll play Indiana in the ECF? Highly doubtful. Coupled with on off shooting night overall by the team, and there goes your 6 point loss.

Given your standards of arguing, Indiana is in for some trouble considering they blew a 17 point lead against Orlando last night. This is a marathon, not a race. Remember Lebron's Cleveland Cavs and recently the Bulls in the ECF. Regular season and playoffs are two separate entities.

Thanks for the charts, as I won't need any to make my comment, I have 4 eyes and watched the game twice......Read the part in bold that you wrote. See, I don't like that reasoning, it suggests that all is well, they weren't really trying to win, etc.....BTW, I am not basing my view of our system based on the UTAH game. But since it was the last game we played, i used it to illustrate a point. Also, I don't want to really comment on INDY cause I was referring to the HEAT and THE UTAH Game.

You are stating some facts that I am quite aware of, but based on this comment "Regular season and playoffs are two separate entities" - I just hope once playoffs comes, we have the ability, stamina, wind, legs to TURN IT ON as it seams you are implying...

p.s. I apologize in advance, if I don't back up my point with stats, charts and stuff...Although I do have the capability ....But just for argument sake, do you understand any of my point?

here is my point to save you some time, cause I know you're busy.....

In the UTAH game, I didn't like lbj playing close to 40 min and we lose by 6 points with Mike/Lewis on the bench with a DNP/CD. You or anybody else cannot claim that we're coasting, this is a marathon, the reg season is different than the playoffs, or whatever the current narrative is, then go out and play LBJ close to 40 minutes...

I also don't like with obj clearly struggling, we STILL relied on him to be the main playmaker and had a green light to shoot.......IMO, it's becoming easier to defend this team.......I personally just don't like it.......

[DWadeno3]

D Wade 33.3 , Chris Bosh 31.5, Lebron 37.2, Battier 20.8, are all playing career lows in mpg. Ray Allen has seen a slight increase from 25.8 to 26.4.

Its important to note Wade has rested a good amount this year, Beasley hasnt become a steady presence off of the bench, and Haslem has regressed into non production; yet all these players are playing career lows in minutes. Our system is predicated on athleticism, when the minutes ramp up and the intensity increases, the defensive efficiency will rise.

You guys should know this, (im assuming we all watch these games obsessively) our defensive system requires hard, decisive defensive rotations (and by no means is it an easy system to play in). Its crazy to think this team is going to play with playoff intensity at this point in the season and after injury setbacks they've had in 2 consecutive postseasons. (Bosh, Wade)

Said I was going to stay off the boards for a while, but I really don't understand(read bold) - So, let me see, these guys coasted in the UTAH game?

Can someone give a better argument without trotting out stats......we needed 6 points to win, Based on said stats, I wonder who on the floor in the 4th qtr could have gotten us 6 more points......intensity had nothing..IMO to do with UTAHS loss

Honestly, the Utah game was as much a lack of effort as it was all of the Big Three not playing well. LeBron and CB were off while Wade didn't feel the need to pick up the slack. Our team is top heavy and it's rare that all three of them have an off-night, but this is basically what happened. We can get away with half-assing a lot of games just because we have three star players.
Wade was playing decent, but instead of saying "Alright, Bron and CB are struggling, I'll run the offense", he just took a backseat as he's done too many times this season.

With that being said, I'm a little pissed off that a) the role players weren't more aggressive defensively and b) we didn't give a guy like Toney Douglas some burn, who could've potentially been a spark to our offense.

[WD]

D Wade 33.3 , Chris Bosh 31.5, Lebron 37.2, Battier 20.8, are all playing career lows in mpg. Ray Allen has seen a slight increase from 25.8 to 26.4.

Its important to note Wade has rested a good amount this year, Beasley hasnt become a steady presence off of the bench, and Haslem has regressed into non production; yet all these players are playing career lows in minutes. Our system is predicated on athleticism, when the minutes ramp up and the intensity increases, the defensive efficiency will rise.

You guys should know this, (im assuming we all watch these games obsessively) our defensive system requires hard, decisive defensive rotations (and by no means is it an easy system to play in). Its crazy to think this team is going to play with playoff intensity at this point in the season and after injury setbacks they've had in 2 consecutive postseasons. (Bosh, Wade)

Said I was going to stay off the boards for a while, but I really don't understand(read bold) - So, let me see, these guys coasted in the UTAH game?

Can someone give a better argument without trotting out stats......we needed 6 points to win, Based on said stats, I wonder who on the floor in the 4th qtr could have gotten us 6 more points......intensity had nothing..IMO to do with UTAHS loss

Honestly, the Utah game was as much a lack of effort as it was all of the Big Three not playing well. LeBron and CB were off while Wade didn't feel the need to pick up the slack. Our team is top heavy and it's rare that all three of them have an off-night, but this is basically what happened. We can get away with half-assing a lot of games just because we have three star players.
Wade was playing decent, but instead of saying "Alright, Bron and CB are struggling, I'll run the offense", he just took a backseat as he's done too many times this season.

With that being said, I'm a little pissed off that a) the role players weren't more aggressive defensively and b) we didn't give a guy like Toney Douglas some burn, who could've potentially been a spark to our offense.

That's basically all I am saying...try something or someone else.....I'm just gonna have to just watch the games, we/I don't have any say in what happens...gonna step back and just watch the games and hope my team can stay healthy and get to the finals.

We're playing like a car that has 5 gears, but we're using only the 1st and 2nd

[crazy_me_87]

we got the same problem we had previous years... and its gotten worse

we have a significantly better record against good(+50% win Teams) 67% against good and 73% against bad Teams as one would expect

Indiana is wiping the floor with bad Teams and struggling against top tier Teams

what can that tell us?

the Heat are like no Team living and dying in their motivation and urgency!

against a Team like Utah they think "meh,what the heck.. just another day at the office"

is that a great additude? nope.. but after winning 205 regular Season Games out of 279 since the Team got together 3 finals trips and 2 championchips.. its understandable...

if it was up to them the playoffs would have started 5 games ago(everybodys close to healthy,Oden is playing and holding up) .. so they want the big show right now... to them playing low level competition is a drag right now..

the defence is still amazing if the Team is highly motivated.. wich they will be in the playoffs

so no we should not act like all is perfetct but its also waaaay too early to panick..

[aboogie]

Aren't we the oldest team in the league if I'm not mistaken ?

[heatlespeatles]

we got the same problem we had previous years... and its gotten worse

we have a significantly better record against good(+50% win Teams) 67% against good and 73% against bad Teams as one would expect

Indiana is wiping the floor with bad Teams and struggling against top tier Teams

what can that tell us?

the Heat are like no Team living and dying in their motivation and urgency!

against a Team like Utah they think "meh,what the heck.. just another day at the office"

is that a great additude? nope.. but after winning 205 regular Season Games out of 279 since the Team got together 3 finals trips and 2 championchips.. its understandable...

if it was up to them the playoffs would have started 5 games ago(everybodys close to healthy,Oden is playing and holding up) .. so they want the big show right now... to them playing low level competition is a drag right now..

the defence is still amazing if the Team is highly motivated.. wich they will be in the playoffs

so no we should not act like all is perfetct but its also waaaay too early to panick..

defense is not amazing against teams that can score well, its amazing against ball stopping guards and teams that can't shoot. Not amazing against the Pacers and wasn't amazing against the Spurs. We Still get lit up easily from 3. Defense has already been figured out, swing the ball to open guy. They all know, Utah knew too and they said it at halftime when they were leading..

Luckily theres only few teams that can really exploit us with shooting. And the other team (Pacers) will just beat us up inside and try to prevent us from scoring.

Dont fool yourself into thinking our defense carries us, It really doesn't anymore, our offense does.

Our defense isn't good, even when motivated in the playoffs, it can barely stop teams that kill us with passing and shooting, how long did we take to stop the Spurs? 6 games and still almost lost in that 6th game.. When did we stop the Pacers? 7 games and our offense carried us in that 7th game.

Our defense has to be fixed or our personnel needs to be upgraded to help us defend better.

[HeatGuyInChicago]

You guys can get your panties in a bunch. I will wait until the post season. The only thing interesting to see is how Michael Beasley and Greg Oden develop and if Wade will be healthy in the post season. The defense effort will be there in the post season.

[daschysta]

we got the same problem we had previous years... and its gotten worse

we have a significantly better record against good(+50% win Teams) 67% against good and 73% against bad Teams as one would expect

Indiana is wiping the floor with bad Teams and struggling against top tier Teams

what can that tell us?

the Heat are like no Team living and dying in their motivation and urgency!

against a Team like Utah they think "meh,what the heck.. just another day at the office"

is that a great additude? nope.. but after winning 205 regular Season Games out of 279 since the Team got together 3 finals trips and 2 championchips.. its understandable...

if it was up to them the playoffs would have started 5 games ago(everybodys close to healthy,Oden is playing and holding up) .. so they want the big show right now... to them playing low level competition is a drag right now..

the defence is still amazing if the Team is highly motivated.. wich they will be in the playoffs

so no we should not act like all is perfetct but its also waaaay too early to panick..

Indy is 8-3 against okc sas por lac hou gsw and miami. They have played fine against the contenders. Miamis D does require more energy so it's hard to judge them until the playoffs.

[KnockDownTheJ]

With the understanding that the team has been through a lot physically and emotionally the last 3+ years, not giving 100% effort during the RS, especially against a team like Utah is understandable. However, when the team clearly tries to ratchet the defense up, and there are select moments when they try, I get this feeling that it is becoming more difficult for them and the smothering D is less suffocating than it used to be. This is probably a combination of age and deterioration at the wing positions.

My guess is the team with implement more traditional schemes in the playoffs because, lets not be mistaken, this is not nearly the defensive juggernaut that the team was when the big 3 got going in the first year. That defense, along with stellar play from the big 3 literally carried them to the finals and almost won them the ship. If this team becomes about the big 3 on offense and gets inconsistent shooting like it has been, it will be in big trouble unless the defense is tweaked or someone is added to compensate for the dropoff from the roleplayers (i.e. Battier, Haslem, Ray Allen or Beasley and/or Oden really contribute).

In the end, we will see the true story come playoff time. I'm not in panic mode, simply voicing my observations.