Techicals for Flopping getting a trial in D League

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Re: The NBA RULES NEED UPDATED & Another Harden Flop 

Post#41 » by hayden » Fri Feb 14, 2014 10:25 am

hands11 wrote:
hayden wrote:Meh, I'm a Rocket's fan, so I'm biased. I'd be pissed for sure if this happened against my team, but again, this seems just like a 50/50 call that went in favor of the Rockets that put Harden at the line to give him the opportunity to score an extra point.


Ok, sure. Let ignore Harden initiated the contact and pushed Trevor.

50/50 call. So why not a double foul ? Jump ball.

Ok, fine. This one goes to HOU.

How do you then explain this one the very next play. You see the ref under the basket near the end. What and the hell was he watching. Howards feet never stopped moving. I'm pretty sure that is part of the rules for a pick. You feet have to be set. Kind of reffing 101

[tweet]https://twitter.com/truth_about_it/status/433809529709809664[/tweet]

Image

Is that a moving pick on Howard ?
Is Howard not holding Walls arm ?

Even if they blow the first call, they shouldn't have missed the 2nd one.

Wizards ball up 1 with like 3 second left. Highly highly unlikely Houston win that game.

Wiz go into the break at .500 having just beat OKC, GS, PHX, POR, MIA and CHI 2x all since Mon, Jan 13 and lost to MEM by 3 and took SAS into OT.

They would also have Wall in his first AS game and Beal in the 3 pt shooting and whatever that other game is called. That would have been great momentum for them. They deserved to win this game.

Refs should not be stealing game from team with back to back bad calls with the game in the balance.


They didn't deserve to win this game. It's not like they were up the entire game or were up 5pts at the end of the game with a sequence of bad calls. And what does their current run have to do with anything? The Rocket's have won 7 straight if you haven't heard.

Questionable calls happen throughout the game, you can't just focus in on the few plays at the end unless it's completely blantant (like the shooting fouls that weren't called in a few games this season the the league officially addressed).

Harden also had to sink a clutch free-throw and make a layup on three wizard players. If anything you should also blame your lackluster, ball-watching, defense on that layup. I've already admitted my bias and know that Dwight/Harden was being a bit crafty.. maybe you oughta acknowledge your biases and realize the refs didn't hand Houston the win.
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Re: The NBA RULES NEED UPDATED & Another Harden Flop 

Post#42 » by AustinRiversGod » Fri Feb 14, 2014 10:45 am

How do you flop into the Bernie?

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Re: The NBA RULES NEED UPDATED & Another Harden Flop 

Post#43 » by EuroPacer » Fri Feb 14, 2014 11:33 am

You know, Harden is actually making himself into one of the most unpopular figures in the NBA, last year we were all raving about the Beard, this year we are all ranting about his cheating ways.

I haven't seen a lot of the Rockets, but last year I remember one game where I was very impressed with Harden and thought: yeah, this guy deserves all this talk, than he flopped twice in a row as well as leaving his man undefended for close to an entire quarter and I thought: he might be awesome, but I don't like him.

Looks like others are catching on.
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Re: The NBA RULES NEED UPDATED & Another Harden Flop 

Post#44 » by hands11 » Fri Feb 14, 2014 11:35 am

James Harden also did this.

Image

Harden's latest move. Its officially call - The Booger Rub.

That is just strange right there. I can't even dissect that.

What did he just do with his head rubbing it on him then putting it into his chest like that. Is he blowing a booger on his shirt ?

Then he pushes him away ?

Ok, now he is just being creepy.
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Re: The NBA RULES NEED UPDATED & Another Harden Flop 

Post#45 » by hands11 » Fri Feb 14, 2014 12:02 pm

hayden wrote:
hands11 wrote:
hayden wrote:Meh, I'm a Rocket's fan, so I'm biased. I'd be pissed for sure if this happened against my team, but again, this seems just like a 50/50 call that went in favor of the Rockets that put Harden at the line to give him the opportunity to score an extra point.


Ok, sure. Let ignore Harden initiated the contact and pushed Trevor.

50/50 call. So why not a double foul ? Jump ball.

Ok, fine. This one goes to HOU.

How do you then explain this one the very next play. You see the ref under the basket near the end. What and the hell was he watching. Howards feet never stopped moving. I'm pretty sure that is part of the rules for a pick. You feet have to be set. Kind of reffing 101

[tweet]https://twitter.com/truth_about_it/status/433809529709809664[/tweet]

Image

Is that a moving pick on Howard ?
Is Howard not holding Walls arm ?

Even if they blow the first call, they shouldn't have missed the 2nd one.

Wizards ball up 1 with like 3 second left. Highly highly unlikely Houston win that game.

Wiz go into the break at .500 having just beat OKC, GS, PHX, POR, MIA and CHI 2x all since Mon, Jan 13 and lost to MEM by 3 and took SAS into OT.

They would also have Wall in his first AS game and Beal in the 3 pt shooting and whatever that other game is called. That would have been great momentum for them. They deserved to win this game.

Refs should not be stealing game from team with back to back bad calls with the game in the balance.


They didn't deserve to win this game. It's not like they were up the entire game or were up 5pts at the end of the game with a sequence of bad calls. And what does their current run have to do with anything? The Rocket's have won 7 straight if you haven't heard.

Questionable calls happen throughout the game, you can't just focus in on the few plays at the end unless it's completely blantant (like the shooting fouls that weren't called in a few games this season the the league officially addressed).

Harden also had to sink a clutch free-throw and make a layup on three wizard players. If anything you should also blame your lackluster, ball-watching, defense on that layup. I've already admitted my bias and know that Dwight/Harden was being a bit crafty.. maybe you oughta acknowledge your biases and realize the refs didn't hand Houston the win.


So you reply to a post that have video and a snap shot of Howard setting a moving pick and then holding while the Wizards are still up 1 after a bad ( or at a bare min a very questionable call that cuts the lead from 2 to 1 and give HOU possession ) but you fail to comment on the blown call on the very next play that would have given the Wizards possession up 1 with like 3 seconds left and you conclude the Wizards didn't deserve to win even though they would up by more with only 3 seconds remaining and possession ? :lol:

Last I checked it's whoever has more pts when time expires. Up by 1 wins the game. It doesn't matter what the score is at halftime. Just who is winning at the end. Speaking of halftime, another terribly blow call. Wizards advanced the ball on a pass to Beal who get it just past half court, Harden tries to run across his front and clobbers Beal as he is advancing the ball to shoot. Literally turns Beal entire torso with the the contract. No Call. And this was in plan view just past the half court line. All eye on both player for the final shot of the half.

But back to Howard. So on the play before, you claim TA was holding TA so a foul call was correct but ignore Harden pushing off, then on the very next play you say its ok for Howard to set a moving pick like an offensive lineman and then hold Wall with two hands as shown in the still picture ? Wall was the primary defender on Harden to stop him from driving. I thought you said it wasn't ok to put your hands on a player and hold them.

Yes, you admitted your bias, but that is no excuse for lack of logic and consistency. That's just showing willful ignorance. If you fault TA for the hold, then fault Howard for the hold and admit its a foul.

Wizards possession. Up 1 with 3 seconds left. They inbound the ball and get fouled because Houston has to stop the clock. Heading to the line with 2 seconds left and Wall the likely shooter. Wall shoots .836 from the line.

Its about the calls and the refs and the douche bag way Harden plays the game. I don't want to see LeBron crab dribbles or flops, nor CP3, and I don't want to see Harden flailing and flopping and getting away with it. I want to see competitive basketball and the refs calling the game correctly. I don't want to see that other BS ugly crap that diminishes the game. Specially from otherwise talented players.

They have been changing the rules in an attempt to clean up the game. They no longer call the arm swipe through as a shooting foul. Its still a foul but it only a possession foul. They say they want to end the flops and have done something, but not enough in my book. They have been calling carrying/palming more this year as well. Again, its an illegal play so its good they are calling it. I hated how much palming that had allowed for like 10 years. I love watching basketball. Its my favorite sport. I hope they do more to keep the quality and integrity of the game up by cleaning up these bad calls.
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Re: Another James Harden Flop & HOW NBA RULES NEED UPDATED 

Post#46 » by Winsome Gerbil » Fri Feb 14, 2014 12:33 pm

You would have to convince the NBA to pay for another ref, which isn't likely.

I still think the way to really cut down on flopping would be for the league office to be much more aggressive, and for each instance to be a technical foul, whether caught on the court, or at the league level. Done properly a true flop artist like Harden would accumulate technical foul points just like a complainer like Howard does, and by the end of the season might be in danger of mandatory 1 game suspensions for having too many accumulated technicals.

But of course that only works if the league is actually very proactive in revieiwing everything and handing out those technicals. Handing out 2 or 3 warnings a season to a guy does little.
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Re: Another James Harden Flop & HOW NBA RULES NEED UPDATED 

Post#47 » by hands11 » Fri Feb 14, 2014 12:40 pm

Winsome Gerbil wrote:You would have to convince the NBA to pay for another ref, which isn't likely.

I still think the way to really cut down on flopping would be for the league office to be much more aggressive, and for each instance to be a technical foul, whether caught on the court, or at the league level. Done properly a true flop artist like Harden would accumulate technical foul points just like a complainer like Howard does, and by the end of the season might be in danger of mandatory 1 game suspensions for having too many accumulated technicals.

But of course that only works if the league is actually very proactive in revieiwing everything and handing out those technicals. Handing out 2 or 3 warnings a season to a guy does little.


The one rule that needs changed ASAP is the 5 second clock. Just put 5 second on the 24 second clock and lets all see what is really going on. If you don't get it inbounded in time, the buzzer goes off. If its close, you now have a clock that reviewable. It make zero sense to have the 24 second sitting there blank with we all go, one Mississippi, two Mississippi, three Mississippi in our heads and go, hmmmm, that was late or that was close.

Take quantifiable calls out of the refs hands. Its a simple improvement.
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Re: Another James Harden Flop & HOW NBA RULES NEED UPDATED 

Post#48 » by G-Heel » Fri Feb 14, 2014 12:51 pm

hands11 wrote:James Harden also did this.

Image

That is just strange right there. I can't even dissect that.

What did he just do with his head rubbing it on him then putting it into his chest like that. Is he blowing a booger on his shirt ?

Then he pushes him away ?

Ok, now he is just being creepy.


Wonder what that was all about. Probably Ariza told him to stop flopping or something.
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Re: NBA Refs, Rules and Calling the game. 

Post#49 » by disoblige » Fri Feb 14, 2014 1:11 pm

Whats the fine again. $500 ?

Harden makes $13,668,750M



wow harden makes 13 trillion
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Re: Another James Harden Flop & HOW NBA RULES NEED UPDATED 

Post#50 » by disoblige » Fri Feb 14, 2014 1:16 pm

I have no respect for harden's basketball skills.
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Re: Another James Harden Flop & HOW NBA RULES NEED UPDATED 

Post#51 » by yicb » Fri Feb 14, 2014 2:02 pm

ariza grabbed harden with two hands and that was a foul, he kept going and harden sold the contact.
dwight grabbed john wall and that should be a foul too.
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Re: Another James Harden Flop & HOW NBA RULES NEED UPDATED 

Post#52 » by UnderdogRaptors » Fri Feb 14, 2014 2:11 pm

Floppity flop flop
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Re: Another James Harden Flop & HOW NBA RULES NEED UPDATED 

Post#53 » by Sothron » Fri Feb 14, 2014 2:11 pm

I have a hard time deciding who I can't stand the most with the flopping between Harden, CP3 and Griffin. Now imagine if they all played on the same team.
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Re: Another James Harden Flop & HOW NBA RULES NEED UPDATED 

Post#54 » by Tave » Fri Feb 14, 2014 2:26 pm

4 pages about an offensive wing getting away with a push off prior to receiving the ball???

That happens probably at least twice every possession.
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Re: The NBA RULES NEED UPDATED & Another Harden Flop 

Post#55 » by Tave » Fri Feb 14, 2014 2:33 pm

NyCeEvO wrote:Unfortunately, holding and grabbing your opponent to gain leverage has been around a long time.

Reggie Miller was well known for holding players and pushing off in order to get free for a shot.

Ray Allen (doesn't do this as much as he used to) but he was known intentionally hooking his opponents arm with his arm, and then act like he's being held by the guy in order to draw a foul.

KG is used to set illegal moving screens all of the time. He'd hold players just enough to allow his teammates to go by unimpeded for a layup.

All of these "tricks" are passed down from NBA greats and veteran players.

They don't call it a foul, they call it "creating space". :lol:


Every single kid who grows up playing organized ball is taught to do that as part of learning a basic motion offense.

At some point in the set, the wings take their men down to the block, body up, then push off to reach their position on the perimeter w/space. The trick is not to do it so hard that you draw the offensive foul, and to time it right so that you create a clean pass for your PG.
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Re: Another James Harden Flop & HOW NBA RULES NEED UPDATED 

Post#56 » by therealbig3 » Fri Feb 14, 2014 2:44 pm

Here's when I start hating a player's game because of flopping: when I can legitimately ask how good you'd actually be if you weren't allowed to flop.

Guys like LeBron and CP3 flop...but I know that it doesn't really change the course of a game outside of a couple of possessions, and it's not what allows them to have the impact they have. They have an insane amount of impact, because they're really frikin good. They flop every now and then to get a beneficial call here and there.

Harden's entire game seems to consist of flopping, and I really question how good he'd be if the refs didn't reward him so much. I know LeBron and CP3 would still be great...I can't say the same for Harden.
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Re: Another James Harden Flop & HOW NBA RULES NEED UPDATED 

Post#57 » by AFM » Fri Feb 14, 2014 2:55 pm

Just a pathetic display of sportsmanship.
His team is down by 2. 4 seconds left and they have the ball.

And he decides to FLOP on the INBOUNDS.

Can you imagine Jordan or Bird or even Kobe flopping on an inbounds pass with the game on the line to get a FT?
Absolutely pathetic.
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Re: Another James Harden Flop & HOW NBA RULES NEED UPDATED 

Post#58 » by hands11 » Fri Feb 14, 2014 2:55 pm

therealbig3 wrote:Here's when I start hating a player's game because of flopping: when I can legitimately ask how good you'd actually be if you weren't allowed to flop.

Guys like LeBron and CP3 flop...but I know that it doesn't really change the course of a game outside of a couple of possessions, and it's not what allows them to have the impact they have. They have an insane amount of impact, because they're really frikin good. They flop every now and then to get a beneficial call here and there.

Harden's entire game seems to consist of flopping, and I really question how good he'd be if the refs didn't reward him so much. I know LeBron and CP3 would still be great...I can't say the same for Harden.


I think he would still be good. But clearly less of an impact. He does change direction on drives really well and he does that long stride thing and moves the ball around. That should still work. He can also shoot pretty well from outside and he does have legal crafty ways to get space to shoot. But he wouldn't have the same impact as a closer.

Its what happened to Gil when they stopped giving him the calls. It just looked sad watching him drive to get contact instead of scoring and him not get the call as he feel to the ground. After 10-20 games of that you realized that wasn't a final play to run anymore and you need to design something else if you want to win the game.

It would change his impact a lot. He would still be good though. But when you add that to his questionable. defense, how good is the question. And if would effect HOU winning record. Less foul on opponents leaves there players out there longer. And less foul called down the stretch means less close wins.
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Re: Another James Harden Flop & HOW NBA RULES NEED UPDATED 

Post#59 » by hands11 » Fri Feb 14, 2014 3:00 pm

therealbig3 wrote:Here's when I start hating a player's game because of flopping: when I can legitimately ask how good you'd actually be if you weren't allowed to flop.

Guys like LeBron and CP3 flop...but I know that it doesn't really change the course of a game outside of a couple of possessions, and it's not what allows them to have the impact they have. They have an insane amount of impact, because they're really frikin good. They flop every now and then to get a beneficial call here and there.

Harden's entire game seems to consist of flopping, and I really question how good he'd be if the refs didn't reward him so much. I know LeBron and CP3 would still be great...I can't say the same for Harden.


Youtube the NBA double flop. Its pure awesome. Not.

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bNmFHoyO1D8[/youtube]
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Re: Another James Harden Flop & HOW NBA RULES NEED UPDATED 

Post#60 » by Ice the knees » Fri Feb 14, 2014 3:01 pm

wtf that first gif is a foul on the defender, pretty much from the start of the play. but the refs probably werent calling a tight game...defender got a little too aggressive regardless

let me ask you OP, what was the defenders goal on the possession?

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