Paralyzed

Post #1 » by **theBigLip** » Fri Feb 14, 2014 8:10 am

Been a Piston fan for a loooong time, and the last several years I've been on the Tank bandwagon (was there even a choice). This year, with the offseason moves and a year of experience under the belt for Drummond, I was certainly thinking playoffs. Then our season turns to crap, so I'm hopping back on the Tank. Then we fire Cheeks, win a couple of games, then I'm thinking playoffs. Then we lose to f--king Cleveland, and I'm wondering if we should tank. I'm paralyzed now - can't decide which way to root for this team. Need them to put together a string of wins or losses and make it obvious which way to go - just don't end up our of the playoffs AND giving that pick to Charlotte!

Anyway, not really expecting much response - just needed to vent.

ComboGuardCity · Post #2 » by **ComboGuardCity** » Fri Feb 14, 2014 8:33 am

I don't think we have the pieces to tank well enough.

sc8581 · Post #3 » by **sc8581** » Fri Feb 14, 2014 8:48 am

I feel the same way but I don't want to make it in as the 7th or 8th seed. I want a 1st round series we can actually win or I would prefer to just take our chances at moving up in the lottery assuming we're not bad enough to get our pick otherwise.

Q00 · Post #4 » by **Q00** » Fri Feb 14, 2014 8:59 am

If you're looking for something positive to sway you back into the playoff zone...

We're 5-3 in our last 8 games, including 5-1 at home and only .5 game out of the playoffs and 3 games out of 6th seed. And under Loyer we are holding teams to 31% 3FG, which would be good for #1 in the league...a stark contrast to the bottom third perimeter defense we've played all year. I doubt we keep up that level but still encouraging because its come against the Spurs, and it carried over to the Cavs game so maybe there is something to it under Loyer.

Really though, you are probably better off waiting to see what happens in the trade department before deciding to go all in or not. That should give the clearest indicator of where this team is going.

The Penguin · Post #5 » by **The Penguin** » Fri Feb 14, 2014 11:36 am

There's not a doubt in my mind we are going to finish with the 9th pick.

Actually I fully expect Cleveland to go on a mini run at the end of the year and pass us, moving us into pick 8 at the end of the season. Then the Cavs are going to pull a top 3 pick and knock us down to 9th.

jaredtyshaf · Post #6 » by **jaredtyshaf** » Fri Feb 14, 2014 12:51 pm

We need to all be rooting for the 6th-3rd seed. There is a very small chance that we keep our pick and playing Indiana or Miami in the 1st round wouldn't be ideal either. It'd be nice to play another crappy EC team in the 1st and have a chance to win a playoff series.

vic · Post #7 » by **vic** » Fri Feb 14, 2014 12:53 pm

The Cleveland game was a letdown, but it was pretty much a guard collapse. The BigS were well utilized.

Our guards are always up & down, that's nothing new. Jennings is Jennings, Stuckey is hurt often, and Will is Will.

I still have hope that Loyer will make changes quicker than Mo did. He'll figure out how to get KCP steady minutes and steady offense. KCP has a lot more to give than the streaky combos Joe D saddled the team with.

ImHeisenberg · Post #8 » by **ImHeisenberg** » Fri Feb 14, 2014 1:55 pm

This team is the model of inconsistency. They beat the Spurs (albeit, a game the Spurs really didn't try to win), and then give up a game to the lowly Cavs.

They've been winning too much to likely lose enough to retain their pick. Their likely outcomes now are squeaking into the playoffs and getting swept by the Pacers or Heat; or, falling outside the playoff picture and praying that they somehow beat the odds and win a top 3 pick in the lottery.

I don't think either outcome is very appealing. Unless you want to see the Pistons lose a few more games on national television.

Kilo · Post #9 » by **Kilo** » Fri Feb 14, 2014 2:02 pm

We're in no-mans land. There is six teams we're guaranteed to finish ahead of in the draft and seven teams in the East who are surely to finish ahead of us meaning we have really one spot open in the playoffs any maybe the 8th pick slot.

Our best move would be helping the Knicks - a team behind us who is legitimately looking to add and win now because they don't own their pick AND want to keep Melo. So help them pass us, while helping our tank. Josh Smith to the Knicks should happen and if Gores/Dumars hasn't reached out to see if there is anything there than that's professional malpractice and Pistons get what they deserve.

DBC10 · Post #10 » by **DBC10** » Fri Feb 14, 2014 2:21 pm

Your sentiment is certainly reasonable and well understood here. I prefer not to get utterly humiliated by the Pacers/Heat but the alternative is much worse of being stuck in no-man's land. So I'm on the playoff train for now, unless we take a nose dive and regress even further, I don't think we'll be able to get our pick from CHA unfortunately. Sucks.

Spider156 · Post #11 » by **Spider156** » Fri Feb 14, 2014 2:28 pm

There's a much better chance of us making the Playoffs than getting our pick back. You can forget about that pick unless of course we trade for it back. But I'm rooting for this team to make the Playoffs and honestly the door is right there when we come back from the All Star game. We play Cha back to back and if we win both of those games, we are definitely inside the Playoffs. All there is after that is to try to keep our position or better yet win more and get a better position. But I think these two Cha games are the most crucial games to win from now until the season ends. It would just speak volumes of how much the team wants to make the Playoffs. We can do it and they know they can do it. If I was a player on the Pistons, I would go my very hardest in those two games. Just end the questions and get in the Playoffs picture. Our motivation would skyrocket up.

imagump1313 · Post #12 » by **imagump1313** » Fri Feb 14, 2014 2:41 pm

There are only 30 games left guys. For us to keep that pick, they would have to do something crazy like finish 6-24, 7-23. That isn't going to happen in the East. They will hover around .500 the rest of the way. The only thing to hope for here is that maybe they can dump someone at the trade deadline and get an asset in return and hope to hire a strong minded coach after the season who can work with Jennings and Smith to make them smarter players. (think Larry Brown-Chauncy Billups)

Billups was a chucker and not a very smart player when he came here and Brown was on his ass constantly until he figured it out. We need to face the fact that Jennings and Smith aren't going anywhere and we are not keeping our pick this year. Everyone in the league keeps claiming how talented this team is so it's time to start working with these guys to be better. The only way that is happening is to try to hit a home run with a coach next year. I know the argument that no one is going to come here but that's BS. People around the league love and respect Joe Dumars much more than the fans here do. A great coach would come here for the right price.

Imagine how good this team would be if Jennings and Smith played smarter basketball and had a coach who
demanded they play smarter instead of coaches like Cheeks/Loyer who just roll the ball out and let them play? I don't think it's a question of them playing poorly at all. Its that they need to play smarter which I believe can be fixed. Those two guys, along with Drummond and possibly Monroe could be a damn good core for a long time if they had some decent direction and accountability.

Post #13 » by **Snakebites** » Fri Feb 14, 2014 2:42 pm

theBigLip wrote:Been a Piston fan for a loooong time, and the last several years I've been on the Tank bandwagon (was there even a choice). This year, with the offseason moves and a year of experience under the belt for Drummond, I was certainly thinking playoffs. Then our season turns to crap, so I'm hopping back on the Tank. Then we fire Cheeks, win a couple of games, then I'm thinking playoffs. Then we lose to f--king Cleveland, and I'm wondering if we should tank. I'm paralyzed now - can't decide which way to root for this team. Need them to put together a string of wins or losses and make it obvious which way to go - just don't end up our of the playoffs AND giving that pick to Charlotte!

Anyway, not really expecting much response - just needed to vent.

Well, for one you're way too up and down. I certainly expected some small improvement in the offseason. I thought it would be an improvement not nearly worth the pricetag, but I thought we'd be a little better. Natuarally I was upset when it became apparent we weren't any better, but things have settled in for a while now.

I have no idea why anyone was thinking this team would turn around just because Cheeks was gone. That was just plain irrational.

And if you really were thinking playoffs, a single loss shouldn't have put you in a downspin, either.

Our situation has been pretty stable for a while now. The only thing that fluctuates is the mood of the board because people read too much into things.

sfballa13 · Post #14 » by **sfballa13** » Fri Feb 14, 2014 2:51 pm

Kilo wrote:We're in no-mans land. There is six teams we're guaranteed to finish ahead of in the draft and seven teams in the East who are surely to finish ahead of us meaning we have really one spot open in the playoffs any maybe the 8th pick slot.

Our best move would be helping the Knicks - a team behind us who is legitimately looking to add and win now because they don't own their pick AND want to keep Melo. So help them pass us, while helping our tank. Josh Smith to the Knicks should happen and if Gores/Dumars hasn't reached out to see if there is anything there than that's professional malpractice and Pistons get what they deserve.

I have been advocating a Knicks deal for the past 2 weeks on these forums. They have Amare so we can send out Smith and Stuckey, two huge contributors for us, in return for Amare and a smaller contract like Udrih.

With Amare on our team, no Stuckey and no Smith; we can play Jennings - KCP - Singler - Monroe - Drummond and let the chips fall where they may.

I dont see ONE team out there that can offer the Knicks two players of Stuckey and Smith's caliber while dumping a useless dead weight deal in Amare in return. I know Knicks dont want to take on salary past 2015 but the truth of the matter is Melo has one foot out the door and if he doesnt see the ECF he will leave NYC.

Felton / Stuckey - Prigioni
Shumpert / Tim Hardaway Jr - Jr Smith
Melo / MWP
Smith / Bargs
Chandler / Martin

That is a very deep lineup and with how shittty Indy has been playing in 2014, the Knicks might be able to knock them out in the 2nd round and make the ECF pretty much guaranteeing that Melo stays. After all im sure that if Melo lost to Miami en route to their 4th straight Finals appearance he wont be too upset.

If Knicks manage to dump either Bargs or Amare for ANYONE and we are not part of the deal I dont know what i will do but i will surely lose my mind.

pollack419 · Post #15 » by **pollack419** » Fri Feb 14, 2014 3:37 pm

Got to make the playoffs this year even 7 or 8th (we match up well ith Heat and Pacers and beat both this year). Why? Need some experience for the team in the playoffs, taking the next step in growth and loose our pick. This draft has been down graded for one and 2 we cant do a trade with a pick involved until we give Charlotte the one we owe. Hoping for 3-6 seed of course but need the playoffs this year

Finn McCool · Post #16 » by **Finn McCool** » Fri Feb 14, 2014 3:45 pm

I am not an advocate for tanking. As a conspiracy theorist, I am fairly certain the Draft Lottery is rigged. The NBA has difficulty finding an owner for the Hornets and miraculously after the sale, they land in the number one spot and draft Anthony Davis. The team who had the #1 spot before the Lottery, was Cleveland... and once again the following year, the Cavs miraculously leaped up to the #1 spot. Orlando got a #2 last season even though the Cavs leaped them... so I imagine they will be allowed to have a top 3 pick. (RUMOR) Adam Silver and David Stern informed the Lakers that the conspiracy theorists were on to them and in order for their NBA meal ticket to get a top 3 pick in the Lottery, they'll have to crash and burn and either get there on their own demerit or at least get close. My son and I both had Wizards and Cavs getting lottery picks last season. Our top 3 this year.... Lakers, Celtics and Magic... in no exact order until the announcements of which players are entering the draft.

We owe Bobcats/Hornets a pick and it might as well go out the door with Dumars, IMHO. :evil:

The Penguin · Post #17 » by **The Penguin** » Fri Feb 14, 2014 4:40 pm

Finn McCool wrote:I am not an advocate for tanking. As a conspiracy theorist, I am fairly certain the Draft Lottery is rigged. The NBA has difficulty finding an owner for the Hornets and miraculously after the sale, they land in the number one spot and draft Anthony Davis. The team who had the #1 spot before the Lottery, was Cleveland... and once again the following year, the Cavs miraculously leaped up to the #1 spot. Orlando got a #2 last season even though the Cavs leaped them... so I imagine they will be allowed to have a top 3 pick. (RUMOR) Adam Silver and David Stern informed the Lakers that the conspiracy theorists were on to them and in order for their NBA meal ticket to get a top 3 pick in the Lottery, they'll have to crash and burn and either get there on their own demerit or at least get close. My son and I both had Wizards and Cavs getting lottery picks last season. Our top 3 this year.... Lakers, Celtics and Magic... in no exact order until the announcements of which players are entering the draft.

We owe Bobcats/Hornets a pick and it might as well go out the door with Dumars, IMHO.

I agree with much of this. Cavs-LBJ, Cavs-Kyrie after LBJ left (with the Clippers pick no less), Davis- NO, Rose-Bulls...the league knows there's a lot of money to be made and keeping local talents on their home teams and rewarding/trying to kick start franchise are two of the best ways to improve league value. It would be very nice if the league realized the impact a Parker or Wiggins could have on our franchise.

ImHeisenberg · Post #18 » by **ImHeisenberg** » Fri Feb 14, 2014 4:50 pm

Piston Prince wrote:the league knows there's a lot of money to be made and keeping local talents on their home teams and rewarding/trying to kick start franchise are two of the best ways to improve league value. It would be very nice if the league realized the impact a Parker or Wiggins could have on our franchise.

If that's the case, where was Gores' #1 pick the last four years? The Palace used to be a cash cow of sell outs, if there's any franchise that needs a serious shot in the arm the past four years, it was the Detroit Pistons.

Post #19 » by **theBigLip** » Fri Feb 14, 2014 4:52 pm

Thanks for the therapy everyone, I'm moving out of the padded room :-)

I guess in the long run we want the Pistons to be an elite team, and getting into the playoffs is the first step, so I'm going stop worry about ping pong balls and focus on the playoffs. Hopefully we can do something at the trade deadline that will help us get another shooter.

chrbal · Post #20 » by **chrbal** » Fri Feb 14, 2014 5:05 pm

We have to try for the playoffs. The team is too good to be truly bad, but not good enough to really make a playoff run without some changes.
This all makes perfect sense since this is the franchise that fired its head coach with 32 games left in his first year during the GMs lame duck year...who somehow kept his job.