John Wall---Bradley Beal: Sibling Rivalry?

[dlts20]

They need to start playing better. That is the bottom line. Other than spot up 3s Beal has basically sucked offensively. Wall still turns it over too much, shoots too many long 2s and his j is still weak.

I don't think rivalry is the issue. I think poor play is the issue. Wall is obviously better but both have a long way to go to reach their potential. To me Beal has been a disappointment so far this season.

I still think both, especially Wall look 10x better in a more friendly system instead of this jump shooting Flip/Witt garbage

[stevemcqueen1]

Wall had this problem last year with Crawford as well. Often when Crawford played well, Wall didn't. I think there may be something to this idea.

Crawford is a chucker. What other guards could play well with Crawford? Defensive role players.

I agree with Dat, and I think the complaint in the OP is premature because Wall and Beal just aren't there yet. They aren't Pierce and KG. They aren't KD and Westbrook. They aren't Wade and LeBron. Those guys were/are in their primes. Beal is a long way away. Wall himself still isn't there yet and he's just now starting to get close.

I disagree with the inital premise in the OP that Wall and Beal are capable of going for 20 a night. And that they're failing by not doing it. Wall is basically capable of going for 20 every night right now. Beal can get to 20 in a night. But he is not capable of going for 20 every night. There is a big distinction there.

[AWIZZINGBULLET]

Wall had this problem last year with Crawford as well. Often when Crawford played well, Wall didn't. I think there may be something to this idea.

Crawford is a chucker. What other guards could play well with Crawford? Defensive role players.

I agree with Dat, and I think the complaint in the OP is premature because Wall and Beal just aren't there yet. They aren't Pierce and KG. They aren't KD and Westbrook. They aren't Wade and LeBron. Those guys were/are in their primes. Beal is a long way away. Wall himself still isn't there yet and he's just now starting to get close.

I disagree with the inital premise in the OP that Wall and Beal are capable of going for 20 a night. And that they're failing by not doing it. Wall is basically capable of going for 20 every night right now. Beal can get to 20 in a night. But he is not capable of going for 20 every night. There is a big distinction there.

I disagree, I think Beal along with Wall could go for twenty every night. I don't think Wittman's offensive philosophy allows for it. I don't know what it would look like or how Wall and Beal would manage the game, but I think an offensive system that allowed Beal to be more ball dominant vs. a spotter behind the three-point line would produce a bigger point output between the two.

Don't know the details of the OKC offensive philosophy/system, but Westbrook and Durant make it work despite Westbrook not being nearly as efficient as Durant...I know it sounds simplistic.

[stevemcqueen1]

Wall had this problem last year with Crawford as well. Often when Crawford played well, Wall didn't. I think there may be something to this idea.

Crawford is a chucker. What other guards could play well with Crawford? Defensive role players.

I agree with Dat, and I think the complaint in the OP is premature because Wall and Beal just aren't there yet. They aren't Pierce and KG. They aren't KD and Westbrook. They aren't Wade and LeBron. Those guys were/are in their primes. Beal is a long way away. Wall himself still isn't there yet and he's just now starting to get close.

I disagree with the inital premise in the OP that Wall and Beal are capable of going for 20 a night. And that they're failing by not doing it. Wall is basically capable of going for 20 every night right now. Beal can get to 20 in a night. But he is not capable of going for 20 every night. There is a big distinction there.

I disagree, I think Beal along with Wall could go for twenty every night. I don't think Wittman's offensive philosophy allows for it. I don't know what it would look like or how Wall and Beal would manage the game, but I think an offensive system that allowed Beal to be more ball dominant vs. a spotter behind the three-point line would produce a bigger point output between the two.

Don't know the details of the OKC offensive philosophy/system, but Westbrook and Durant make it work despite Westbrook not being nearly as efficient as Durant...I know it sounds simplistic.

Beal already is much more than a 3 point spot shooter though. He's got a usage rate of 25.7 which is fairly significant for a second year player playing alongside an AS. His usage rate is higher than Damian Lillard's by comparison. Beal gets chances to run offense and score. The reason he's not scoring 20 PPG is because he hasn't been efficient enough to do it. And he hasn't been efficient enough to do it because he hasn't been consistent. He doesn't come to each game with a consistent effort, focus, and aggression. He doesn't consistently search for good shots and his shot selection has been up and down. And it hasn't helped that his three ball was slumping for a little bit.

Some nights you see it, like that game against Memphis. He was out there moving on offense, finding himself shots , and playing with energy and purpose and aggression. And he got into a shooting zone. He was scoring from everywhere on the floor, whether he started the possession with the ball in his hands or not. He doesn't need the ball to score, he's a true SG in that way. But since his injury, most nights we've actually seen a much less aggressive Beal. A Beal that stops moving on offense, stops making the other guy work hard to defend him, stops making himself a quality option.

This system isn't good. There is just too little movement from the wings and the ball doesn't move as a result. There is too little penetration--both dribble and pass penetration. Our offense would be horrible if Wall wasn't such a threat and our wings weren't such good shooters and if our bigs didn't have well above average ISO scoring ability in the low post. We're finding modest success in spite of our scheme, because of our offensive talent.

But the single biggest thing holding the Wall/Beal backcourt back from consistent excellence is Beal is still not ready to be a legit second star. He's 20. He's extremely talented, he'll get there eventually. He's not there yet. Hopefully we've got ten years of this backcourt to look forward to, but you can't draw conclusions about their ultimate compatibility this early in the development process.

[jeffsays]

When Bradley shoots an ill-advised long two.

[FAH1223]

They both need to attack the damn basket with reckless abandon. I'm tired of our two legit young players settling for jump shots when they have the ability to get fouled and make free throws.

It's absolutely ridiculous that this coaching staff keeps using a dumb offense predicated on jumpshots.

Long 2s are the worst shot in the NBA. We hated on Harden's flopping but the good thing with him is he rarely takes long 2s and shoots 3s or free throws after layup and 1s..

Wall's been more consistent overall though he keeps taking dump jumpshots every single night while Beal has been chucking terrible shots all season long.

A regime change is in order because these bad habits will stunt their development into becoming ALL NBA caliber players.

[AWIZZINGBULLET]

I also dont think there is any sibling rivalry going on. They play great together. This isnt Irving-Waitiers. They are playing off eachother perfectly. They just arent playing well. Still, you never get the feeling that they dont mix or anything. They look like a perfect mix. They just havent been consistent together yet but its no oil & water stuff.

Also, you cant compare to vets like Lebron & Wade who have had a ton of success to 2 young guys with no success. Its not the same thing at all. Wall is still trying to figure his own stuff out, let alone trying to tell Beal how its suppose to be done. That comes with experience and playoff games. Also, dont forget that Wall missed the whole 1st half of last season and Beal missed alot of games down the stretch. Then this year Beal missed alot at the start again. They really havent even played that much together

I don't see what lack of success has to do with anything. If anything, I see a comfort level that would allow them to express themselves in an honest way lacking. It shouldn't be that way given their relationship and where this Wizards team currently stands.

They are the future of the team and its leading scorers, at a time when there's such underachievement due to a lack of consistency in play, they should be the main guys communicating trying to turn things around. Not hanging their heads and showing body language that says ' *sigh* Here we go again' when one does something on the court that the other disagrees with.

Do you think Wade promptly walks off the court in frustration being comforted by another teammate because his partner in crime took and missed a final shot? No, and that would more likely be due to their genuine relationship than success.

Wall and Beal have played half a season's worth of basketball together this year, to me that's enough time for them to at least figure out that this thing doesn't go unless they make it go together. You can find success in a short time if you go about things the right way, just look around the league.


Wall and Beal may have a genuine bond, if they do, I just think it ought to translate better on-court.




Communication is big. See it, say it.

[Illmatic21]

Wall had this problem last year with Crawford as well. Often when Crawford played well, Wall didn't. I think there may be something to this idea.

Crawford is a chucker. What other guards could play well with Crawford? Defensive role players.

I agree with Dat, and I think the complaint in the OP is premature because Wall and Beal just aren't there yet. They aren't Pierce and KG. They aren't KD and Westbrook. They aren't Wade and LeBron. Those guys were/are in their primes. Beal is a long way away. Wall himself still isn't there yet and he's just now starting to get close.

I disagree with the inital premise in the OP that Wall and Beal are capable of going for 20 a night. And that they're failing by not doing it. Wall is basically capable of going for 20 every night right now. Beal can get to 20 in a night. But he is not capable of going for 20 every night. There is a big distinction there.

I disagree, I think Beal along with Wall could go for twenty every night. I don't think Wittman's offensive philosophy allows for it. I don't know what it would look like or how Wall and Beal would manage the game, but I think an offensive system that allowed Beal to be more ball dominant vs. a spotter behind the three-point line would produce a bigger point output between the two.

Don't know the details of the OKC offensive philosophy/system, but Westbrook and Durant make it work despite Westbrook not being nearly as efficient as Durant...I know it sounds simplistic.

Westbrook and Durant make it work because both are terrific isolation scorers. Wall is a subpar iso scorer (relative to his usage) and Beal is an awful one. They need to be in a structured system (with shooters + post presence) to maximize their abilities. The Wall/Beal combo is still a ways off from being able to carry an elite offense on their own.

As an example, the Steph Curry/Monta Ellis backcourt in GSW was the 7th ranked offense. Those guys could make it work, at least on one side of the ball. Wall/Beal don't have the raw scoring abilities of those guys though. Giving Curry a green light can work, giving two inefficient shooters a green light to jack up long twos will not work for any offense. No intelligent coach would be okay with that.

[AWIZZINGBULLET]

Crawford is a chucker. What other guards could play well with Crawford? Defensive role players.

I agree with Dat, and I think the complaint in the OP is premature because Wall and Beal just aren't there yet. They aren't Pierce and KG. They aren't KD and Westbrook. They aren't Wade and LeBron. Those guys were/are in their primes. Beal is a long way away. Wall himself still isn't there yet and he's just now starting to get close.

I disagree with the inital premise in the OP that Wall and Beal are capable of going for 20 a night. And that they're failing by not doing it. Wall is basically capable of going for 20 every night right now. Beal can get to 20 in a night. But he is not capable of going for 20 every night. There is a big distinction there.

I disagree, I think Beal along with Wall could go for twenty every night. I don't think Wittman's offensive philosophy allows for it. I don't know what it would look like or how Wall and Beal would manage the game, but I think an offensive system that allowed Beal to be more ball dominant vs. a spotter behind the three-point line would produce a bigger point output between the two.

Don't know the details of the OKC offensive philosophy/system, but Westbrook and Durant make it work despite Westbrook not being nearly as efficient as Durant...I know it sounds simplistic.

Westbrook and Durant make it work because both are terrific isolation scorers. Wall is a subpar iso scorer (relative to his usage) and Beal is an awful one. They need to be in a structured system (with shooters + post presence) to maximize their abilities. The Wall/Beal combo is still a ways off from being able to carry an elite offense on their own.

As an example, the Steph Curry/Monta Ellis backcourt in GSW was the 7th ranked offense. Those guys could make it work, at least on one side of the ball. Wall/Beal don't have the raw scoring abilities of those guys though. Giving Curry a green light can work, giving two inefficient shooters a green light to jack up long twos will not work for any offense. No intelligent coach would be okay with that.

I think if you get out of Beal's way and let him get in a rhythm with the ball in his hand he might be more effective. Wall I think could tone down his jump shots some and drive to the basket more. I think they might be more efficient this way...

[AWIZZINGBULLET]

I think positive change is going to come...

[AWIZZINGBULLET]

CSN writer J.Michael---Wall, Beal hold summit meetings to work out kinks

NEW ORLEANS -- Thirty games are left in the Wizards' regular season, and in between the festivities and contests and exhibition showcases, John Wall and Bradley Beal have set aside time for a summit meeting of sorts. They lost the last two games by a combined four points to fall below .500 again. And quite honestly, the young backcourt is trying to exercise some leadership and hash things out among themselves.

"Definitely," Wall said Friday. "We're talking. We get to see where we need to get better in the second half of the season and which directions we're trying to take. Even during the games we talk about it, what we think, when we need to be aggressive, what type of shots we need to take."

RELATED: [NBA All-Star weekend picks: Wall, Beal, Durant vs. LeBron]

Make no mistake, this isn't a casual pow-wow. There are significant topics to talk about. Beal scored a career-high 37 points on 15-for-24 shooting, including 5 of 7 three-pointers, at the Memphis Grizzlies on Tuesday. Coach Randy Wittman drew up the play for Beal, but it was Wall who took the final shot, which was contested, from long range to attempt to send the game into overtime. Wall was just 2-for-10 and finished with a season-low five points in a 92-89 loss. Beal was visibly not pleased.

Nene drew heat for singling out young players for the Wizards, saying they must get their "head out their butts." Now Wall, 23, and Beal, 20, are trying to help each other so they can live up to their backcourt-of-the-future reputation.



http://www.csnwashington.com/basketball ... -out-kinks


Very good to hear...the concerns were legit.

[Illmatic21]

I disagree, I think Beal along with Wall could go for twenty every night. I don't think Wittman's offensive philosophy allows for it. I don't know what it would look like or how Wall and Beal would manage the game, but I think an offensive system that allowed Beal to be more ball dominant vs. a spotter behind the three-point line would produce a bigger point output between the two.

Don't know the details of the OKC offensive philosophy/system, but Westbrook and Durant make it work despite Westbrook not being nearly as efficient as Durant...I know it sounds simplistic.

Westbrook and Durant make it work because both are terrific isolation scorers. Wall is a subpar iso scorer (relative to his usage) and Beal is an awful one. They need to be in a structured system (with shooters + post presence) to maximize their abilities. The Wall/Beal combo is still a ways off from being able to carry an elite offense on their own.

As an example, the Steph Curry/Monta Ellis backcourt in GSW was the 7th ranked offense. Those guys could make it work, at least on one side of the ball. Wall/Beal don't have the raw scoring abilities of those guys though. Giving Curry a green light can work, giving two inefficient shooters a green light to jack up long twos will not work for any offense. No intelligent coach would be okay with that.

I think if you get out of Beal's way and let him get in a rhythm with the ball in his hand he might be more effective. Wall I think could tone down his jump shots some and drive to the basket more. I think they might be more efficient this way...

Agreed on both counts. I also have a lot of faith in Beal eventually becoming an efficient iso scorer with some go-to moves. He seems to work hard every offseason, imo it's only a matter of time before he becomes a more diverse scorer.

[DCZards]

I think if you get out of Beal's way and let him get in a rhythm with the ball in his hand he might be more effective. Wall I think could tone down his jump shots some and drive to the basket more. I think they might be more efficient this way...

Agreed on both counts. I also have a lot of faith in Beal eventually becoming an efficient iso scorer with some go-to moves. He seems to work hard every offseason, imo it's only a matter of time before he becomes a more diverse scorer.

I don't think you can put the ball in Beal's hands and let him take over. He's not a good enough ball handler--yet. But you're right, with work Beal can and will become a more diverse scorer. In fact, it's happening already, just not fast enough for some here.

[Knighthonor]

Here we go. They about to get #RG3ed

MMO gamers are the easiest people in the world to scam with a product using tapatalk

[Darko Miliminutes]

One thing of note. I never saw these 2 together over the weekend, cheering each other or high 5'ing, or congratulating each other. You usually see that from teammates, that are close. Who knows...

[DCZards]

^^^^ After Wall threw down his winning dunk and went over to do his dance routine with P. George, Beal was standing right next to P. George laughing and clapping for JW. Check out the video.

Also, when Beal was in the finals of the 3 pt. shooting contest, there was a brief camera shot of Wall nervously rooting for his teammate. I believe this was right after Marco B. had put up the 24 that turned out to be the winning score.

This thread is much ado about nothing, imo. So what if Beal was disappointed when Wall didn't get him the ball to take the final shot against Memphis. It happens...especially when you're talking about ultra-competitive people like pro athletes.

[AWIZZINGBULLET]

^^^^ After Wall threw down his winning dunk and went over to do his dance routine with P. George, Beal was standing right next to P. George laughing and clapping for JW. Check out the video.

Also, when Beal was in the finals of the 3 pt. shooting contest, there was a brief camera shot of Wall nervously rooting for his teammate. I believe this was right after Marco B. had put up the 24 that turned out to be the winning score.

This thread is much ado about nothing, imo. So what if Beal was disappointed when Wall didn't get him the ball to take the final shot against Memphis. It happens...especially when you're talking about ultra-competitive people like pro athletes.

My point is that it needs to translate to the court ASAP. I'm not as patient in waiting for chemistry that they already have, as seen off the court, to manifest itself on-court as I am in other areas of their development. That's well within their control IMO...

I saw the same things you saw. There's no hatred or animosity, I expressed that earlier.

They need to take charge of the team so things can really take off for the Wizards. Guarantee you when Wall and Beal really begin taking initiative together for the team's success, they will score more as a duo and the wins above .500 will start to mount.

[DCZards]

My point is that it needs to translate to the court ASAP. I'm not as patient in waiting for chemistry that they already have, as seen off the court, to manifest itself on-court as I am in other areas of their development. That's well within their control IMO...

I saw the same things you saw. There's no hatred or animosity, I expressed that earlier.

They need to take charge of the team so things can really take off for the Wizards. Guarantee you when Wall and Beal really begin taking initiative together for the team's success, they will score more as a duo and the wins above .500 will start to mount.

Of course, the Zards will be an improved team when Beal and Wall develop a better chemistry. No one doubts that. But they can't just flip a switch to make that happen. It takes time...and patience.

Let's not forget that we're talking about two players who are both in their early 20s...playing their first full season together. What you're asking for comes with maturity and experience.

[tontoz]

My point is that it needs to translate to the court ASAP. I'm not as patient in waiting for chemistry that they already have, as seen off the court, to manifest itself on-court as I am in other areas of their development. That's well within their control IMO...

I saw the same things you saw. There's no hatred or animosity, I expressed that earlier.

They need to take charge of the team so things can really take off for the Wizards. Guarantee you when Wall and Beal really begin taking initiative together for the team's success, they will score more as a duo and the wins above .500 will start to mount.

Of course, the Zards will be an improved team when Beal and Wall develop a better chemistry. No one doubts that. But they can't just flip a switch to make that happen. It takes time...and patience.

Let's not forget that we're talking about two players who are both in their early 20s...playing their first full season together. What you're asking for comes with maturity and experience.

I agree which makes EGs win now mindset all the more dubious. Why sacrifice future assets to win a few games now when Beal/Wall clearly need a few years to reach their peak?

It would see to make more sense to build for the long term so that the supporting cast is strongest when Beal/Wall are at their peak.

[DCZards]

I agree which makes EGs win now mindset all the more dubious. Why sacrifice future assets to win a few games now when Beal/Wall clearly need a few years to reach their peak?

It would see to make more sense to build for the long term so that the supporting cast is strongest when Beal/Wall are at their peak.

We can debate what the future holds for the Zards and whether or not EG has effectively sabotaged any long-term success, but there is no debate that the players, especially Wall, are relishing the opportunity to possibly make the playoffs this year--and maybe even advance a round. I think that's a good thing and a long-term confidence-builder, particularly for Wall, Beal and the other youngins who desperately need to experience that kind of success, imo, as modest as it may be.

And there are other benefits to having a decent record. JW probably doesn't make the all-star team or participate in the slam dunk contest if the Zard's record is something like 18-34. And Beal probably doesn't participate in the 3 pt. shooting contest either.