The Trade Thread

[Q00]

Smith is better player than Mayo and than Ersan, but for this team, they're better players. We need shooters, and Mayo and Ilyasova are damn good (Ersan struggles this season, but his team looks horrible finding the open guy)

I don't believe in paying a king's ransom just for shooters. To me trrading the best player in the deal just to get a couple role player shooters who are overpaid is a kings ransom.

I agree we need shooters, but we should be able to get Gary Neal from them (who might be better than both) for probably something cheap like Jerebko or Bynum and a couple and couple 2nd rounders. I just don't think we should to trade our best players for overpaid role players.

I don't think they are overpaid. The PF who can shoot always are too well paid in the NBA. And Mayo seems like he never can reach his potential, but you can't forget there was people who compared him with Jordan in high school. I mean, he could be more than a shooter in the right system, for 8 millions/year, just like Jennings or Villanueva or Stuckey, and so much less than Smith.

Neither are worth their 8 mil/yr contracts, and neither have proven to be great at anything but 3 pt shooting. So for me paying 16 mil/yr for two role player shooters is WAY too much money, especially when we could get Neal for 3 mil/yr.

When you think about it, how are Mayo/Ilyasova any different from Gordon/Villanueva?

Mayo and Gordon are both one dimensional SGs who are good for nothing but 3s. Ilyasova and Vilanueva are both soft stretch 4s who are good for nothing but 3s. And both duos cost about the same amount per year.

People try to compare Jennings/Smith to BG/CV, but there's no comparison because Jennings/Smith do so much more than just 1 thing. Mayo/Ilyasova however would literally be like re-signing BG/CV all over again, in my opinion.

Its impossible to build a winning team paying that much for one-dimensional role players. If you look at all the top teams through history, they only pay small minimum type deals for their shooters, because if they only provide one aspect of the game, that's all they are worth.

[Snakebites]

I could definitely see them being very interested in that.

Why? Because their front office isn't very smart?

Its certainly not a good move for them.

The undervaluing of Smith on this board is becoming a joke. Are you really trying to say that Mayo/Ilyasova are better than Smith? c'mon...

Even if you hate Smith for his low FG% and high FGAs this season, both Mayo and Ilyasova are shooting even lower % and take 7 more shots combined.

Both have lower career FG% as well.

This schtick of no team in the league would trade anything for Smith like he's the worst player in history has really gotten old.

I'm not saying Hammond would have interest in that deal. I have no idea what he wants, but in terms of pure value Smith is by far the best player of those 3, and anytime you can get the best player in a trade its a good move.

Actually, I don't even have to say that.

They don't NEED Smith. They've already got plenty of shot blocking front court players. He's the last thing they need. They'd be taking on a bad contract for their own bad contracts, and a player who actually fits in less. Mayo and Ilyasova are bad this year, but so is Smith and he's an even worse fit.

I don't think there's a way to "undervalue" Smith at this point. He's among the absolute worst assets in the league right now, and even rating him dead last only slightly undervalues him. So yeah, I don't think anything is becoming a "joke".

[jakebernat]

When you think about it, how are Mayo/Ilyasova any different from Gordon/Villanueva?

OUCH.

[jakebernat]

I don't think there's a way to "undervalue" Smith at this point. He's among the absolute worst assets in the league right now.

because dumars made him that. he's still an extremely talented player with clear strengths and glaring weaknesses. we need to play to make him a full time PF if we're ever going to get some kind of value for him.

[Q00]

Why? Because their front office isn't very smart?

Its certainly not a good move for them.

The undervaluing of Smith on this board is becoming a joke. Are you really trying to say that Mayo/Ilyasova are better than Smith? c'mon...

Even if you hate Smith for his low FG% and high FGAs this season, both Mayo and Ilyasova are shooting even lower % and take 7 more shots combined.

Both have lower career FG% as well.

This schtick of no team in the league would trade anything for Smith like he's the worst player in history has really gotten old.

I'm not saying Hammond would have interest in that deal. I have no idea what he wants, but in terms of pure value Smith is by far the best player of those 3, and anytime you can get the best player in a trade its a good move.

Actually, I don't even have to say that.

They don't NEED Smith. They've already got plenty of shot blocking front court players. He's the last thing they need. They'd be taking on a bad contract for their own bad contracts, and a player who actually fits in less.

I don't think there's a way to "undervalue" Smith at this point. He's among the absolute worst assets in the league right now, and even rating him dead last only slightly undervalues him. So yeah, I don't think anything is becoming a "joke".

If you just don't think he fits on Milwaukee, that's fair, but saying he's one of the worst assets in the league isn't becoming a joke, it is a joke.

[MrBigShot]

^I agree. The value of Ilyasova/Mayo has never been lower. You have two guys who don't do enough aside from shooting at their position, who are both shooting under 40% overall. I'd think about acquiring one of them for scraps.

I wouldn't give up any assets to get them, and I do consider Smith an asset. Even though he's underachieved and have a career worst year, he's still easily the best player in that deal and some of his struggles can be fixed with coaching and line up changes. He's like Rudy Gay. Awful in Toronto because he had no limitations on his shot selection and didn't fit with their starting lineup, and now in Sacremento he's averaged 20/5/3 on 50% shooting. Smith could be similar in the sense that he has the potential to do better with a change of scenery.

[Snakebites]

The undervaluing of Smith on this board is becoming a joke. Are you really trying to say that Mayo/Ilyasova are better than Smith? c'mon...

Even if you hate Smith for his low FG% and high FGAs this season, both Mayo and Ilyasova are shooting even lower % and take 7 more shots combined.

Both have lower career FG% as well.

This schtick of no team in the league would trade anything for Smith like he's the worst player in history has really gotten old.

I'm not saying Hammond would have interest in that deal. I have no idea what he wants, but in terms of pure value Smith is by far the best player of those 3, and anytime you can get the best player in a trade its a good move.

Actually, I don't even have to say that.

They don't NEED Smith. They've already got plenty of shot blocking front court players. He's the last thing they need. They'd be taking on a bad contract for their own bad contracts, and a player who actually fits in less.

I don't think there's a way to "undervalue" Smith at this point. He's among the absolute worst assets in the league right now, and even rating him dead last only slightly undervalues him. So yeah, I don't think anything is becoming a "joke".

If you just don't think he fits on Milwaukee, that's fair, but saying he's one of the worst assets in the league isn't becoming a joke, it is a joke.

My saying its not a good deal for them was entirely in reference to fit. Its a deal that solves absolutely none of their problems and makes their roster more of a mess than it is right now. I'm fully aware of how lousy those two guys have been for them this year, but in the case of this trade it doesn't matter.

And I guess we disagree about what constitutes a joke. I believe he is among the worst assets in the league, and I'm prepared to wager that most GM's in the league agree.

[MrBigShot]

If the Raptors can get 13 million worth in expirings (1 is a team option, but they will decline) for Rudy Gay who was playing even worse, then I think we can get more than two shooters who have sucked shooting the ball this year locked in long-term.

[Snakebites]

I don't think there's a way to "undervalue" Smith at this point. He's among the absolute worst assets in the league right now.

because dumars made him that. he's still an extremely talented player with clear strengths and glaring weaknesses. we need to play to make him a full time PF if we're ever going to get some kind of value for him.

I think its already been demonstrated that his shot selection this year has been equally awful at both positions.

He might not be as pathetic defensively if he were at PF, sure, but we're still talking about an offensive blight who takes tons of shots at an abysmal monetary price.

There's no doubt he's been a terrible fit for this team and Dumars was a fool for signing him, but Smith's made this bed, too, and unfortunately we all must lie in it.

[Q00]

I don't think there's a way to "undervalue" Smith at this point. He's among the absolute worst assets in the league right now.

because dumars made him that. he's still an extremely talented player with clear strengths and glaring weaknesses. we need to play to make him a full time PF if we're ever going to get some kind of value for him.

I think its already been demonstrated that his shot selection this year has been equally awful at both positions.

He might not be as pathetic defensively if he were at PF, sure, but we're still talking about an offensive blight who takes tons of shots at an abysmal monetary price.

There's no doubt he's been a terrible fit for this team and Dumars was a fool for signing him, but Smith's made this bed, too, and unfortunately we all must lie in it.

Its funny how people cite 9 years of evidence to confirm Smith's negatives, and at the same time conveniently ignore 9 years of evidence that confirms Smith is much better than a 41% shooter (as in career 47%). Yet 3.5 months of 41% shooting somehow outweighs 9 years of 47% shooting. And you can talk all you want about his shot selection in those 9 years, but the bottom line is he shot 47%, regardless of where/when he shot, which is in line with any top PF in the league over that period.

Also, speak for yourself. Just because you and some others here feel that way, don't include all of us in your misery by saying we all must lie in it...wtf is that? We all don't feel that way. Nor do we all feel his signing was a mistake or bad fit in the first place. I could argue Monroe is the bad fit just as much, but I'm not getting into that again. However I'll just say that just because you have a lottery team with a bunch of unknowns, and you add some new pieces, that doesn't automatically mean its those new pieces that don't fit if the team stays a lottery team.

The only way I'd buy that flawed argument is if we were a playoff team on the cusp last year, and now we weren't as a good, and adding Smith was the only change made. Since that wasn't the case, I don't know how you can conclude anything about fit, when there wasn't a foundation in place to begin with to judge what fits and what doesn't.

All Dumars did these last 4 years was stockpile talent, which is what all GMs do when rebuilding. You can't focus on fit when there's no team in place yet. Now that he has restocked his talent base, now he can shift the focus to sorting out which pieces fit and which don't to go forth with, and there's equal cases to be made for going forward with Smith as one of the core pieces as there is for any player on this team. Aside from Drummond, no player has separated themselves from the rest in terms of must keep guys. Not Smith, Monroe, Jennings, KCP, Singler, etc etc. You could just as easily decide to rebuild around Drummond/Smith as Drummond/Jennings or Drummond/Monroe. So I don't know how you conclude that Smith is the one who doesn't fit in this situation.

[Hotmayo]

Trading ilyasova and Mayo for smith is a joke. Meeks is available in the offseason. Better have him n singler shooting threes n letting stuckey go n a trade or w/e.

People are having a hard time valuing tough players in playoff runs. Didn't okc trade Jeff green for Perkins. Perkins brings toughness to the team. Something josh brings here. Josh just doesn't need to shoot much. And people want green too. He's soft, which is why he got traded anyways. Detroit pistons aren't a soft team

[Spider156]

Trading ilyasova and Mayo for smith is a joke. Meeks is available in the offseason. Better have him n singler shooting threes n letting stuckey go n a trade or w/e.

People are having a hard time valuing tough players in playoff runs. Didn't okc trade Jeff green for Perkins. Perkins brings toughness to the team. Something josh brings here. Josh just doesn't need to shoot much. And people want green too. He's soft, which is why he got traded anyways. Detroit pistons aren't a soft team

That's exactly what I'm saying! Smith has a very competitive edge to him. Monroe doesn't! AND you can get so much for Greg. I think it's an easy decision of who to trade.

[Neptune]

Trading ilyasova and Mayo for smith is a joke. Meeks is available in the offseason. Better have him n singler shooting threes n letting stuckey go n a trade or w/e.

People are having a hard time valuing tough players in playoff runs. Didn't okc trade Jeff green for Perkins. Perkins brings toughness to the team. Something josh brings here. Josh just doesn't need to shoot much. And people want green too. He's soft, which is why he got traded anyways. Detroit pistons aren't a soft team

Preach to them!

[Kilo]

Monroe/KCP to Cleveland for Waiters/Thompson - Who says no?

If we say no - what about getting expiring Deng for expiring CV, Singler + cap filler as part of the deal?

Cleveland gets complimentary pieces to put around Kyrie, not less talented, but very talented young players who "know/accept their role".

Would Jennings/Waiters be a trainwreck like Kyrie/Waiters is and like Jennings/Ellis was? Both too ball dominant or would Jennings relish the idea of becoming more a true point guard like he has played lip service to this season?

Jennings
Waiters
Deng
Smith
Drummond

Irving
Caldwell-Pope
Singler
Bennett
Monroe

[ComboGuardCity]

^That would be a nightmare lineup. 3 guys in the SL who have never seen a shot they dont like.

[DBC10]

Irving and Waiters couldn't buy more shot attempts, it'd be magnified with our 2 ball dominant pieces with Waiters here too.

He'd demand a trade the moment he steps foot here.

Sent from my XT1034 using Tapatalk

[sc8581]

Cavs wouldn't even consider that deal, Monroe for Waiters might be possible.

[MotownMadness]

I like Waiters especially because he's on the same contract with Dre. If we wanted to trade Monroe I would look into it. Waiters+14 first rounder for Monroe?

[sc8581]

I like Waiters especially because he's on the same contract with Dre. If we wanted to trade Monroe I would look into it. Waiters+14 first rounder for Monroe?

We're not getting Waiters and their pick this year, you might get Waiters, possibly their pick but unlikely, no way in hell we're getting both for Moose.

[jakebernat]

Cavs wouldn't even consider that deal, Monroe for Waiters might be possible.

lol "might". are you kidding? the cavs would **** themselves if we offered monroe for waiters.