Do you believe John Wall can win a championship someday?

Higga · Post #21 » by **Higga** » Mon Feb 17, 2014 4:54 pm

It's possible but in the NBA winning a championship requires a lot of luck/good timing. I mean some of the best players ever didn't win a ring because their primes coincided with Jordan, or Shaq/Kobe. You could see the same with Lebron now.

If we can land Durant though, forget it. Dynasty in D.C.

mohammed10 · Post #22 » by **mohammed10** » Tue Feb 18, 2014 6:40 am

Higga wrote:It's possible but in the NBA winning a championship requires a lot of luck/good timing. I mean some of the best players ever didn't win a ring because their primes coincided with Jordan, or Shaq/Kobe. You could see the same with Lebron now.

If we can land Durant though, forget it. Dynasty in D.C.

I hope KD brings his talents back to the DMV. Just wondering how realistic our chances are to land him.

hands11 · Post #23 » by **hands11** » Tue Feb 18, 2014 6:04 pm

spaceman_E wrote:Yes, because I think his upside is higher than even Rose, Westbrook and Paul.

And I think the prototype lineup to do it would look something like Wall/Hayward/Ariza/Bosh/Noah or M Gasol

skilled passers and shooters who can all defend without much gap between your best and 4th best player. That's my vision anyways.

Gotta keep an eye on what MIA does this offseason. If Bosh leaves, that would be the player to add. I then see a good chance Melo goes to MIA as a smart move for MIA and Melo. Though if they win another title, they would be smart to just adjust Wade down and ink Bosh again. MIA has a decent chance of keep that train rolling.

And if they do, OKC should trade Westbrook. Get out of that contract and us that money to build something that can compete with MIA. Most likely that is more seasoned depth. Its just hard to win it all when you are leaning on young'n like Adams. I would build a CHI type MJ team around Durrant. They don't need a Westbrook at his price. Cash in and get assets.

I wouldn't pay Bosh the 20M he scheduled to make but I see those big contract numbers as something that is going to start getting adjusted down with the new CBA kicking in. Melo included. MIA's problem is convincing Bosh not to take his player option and get Wade's number down enough. Something closer to 10M like TD did.

The only players making that kind of sick coin should be someone like KD and LeBron. And the artist formally known a Kobe.

http://hoopshype.com/salaries.htm

I believe we are about to see salaries readjustment kick in. DIrk will resign for less. Stoudemire is dead weight at 21M then a 23M player option. He is the new worst contract short of Gil still making 22M this year. But Gil isn't on ORLs book because of amnesty. Melo will likely ink at something closer to 17/18M Gasol will ink something less this his current 19M. I think its just going to be a lot more rare you see people signing for 19M and above and that is going to have a trick-down affect to some degree.

hands11 · Post #24 » by **hands11** » Tue Feb 18, 2014 6:16 pm

Higga wrote:It's possible but in the NBA winning a championship requires a lot of luck/good timing. I mean some of the best players ever didn't win a ring because their primes coincided with Jordan, or Shaq/Kobe. You could see the same with Lebron now.

If we can land Durant though, forget it. Dynasty in D.C.

That's a montra of mine so I totally agree. To win it all you have to have one of these players on your team and its not a PG. A D Rose or CP3 team is not going to beat a well tooled a KD or Lebron lead team. Well that is also true of a Wall lead team. Part of the problem is D Rose and CP3 make to much and it will keep those teams back. They will need another stud lead player to get there. CP3 might get there but it will because Blake Griffin is the stud. CHI might but its going to take then adding a Melo type and Melo adjusting his game.

Short of having one of those do it all type at SG/SF/PG or SF/PG or SF/PF you aren't winning a title any time soon. Next would want a stud elite PF/C type like Dirk, TD. Only PG that had title affecting impact was Magic and that because he could play all 5 positions. And that was a long time ago.

Only other exception I have ever heard to that is the DET example and that was a long time ago in a land far far away with different rules. And its just one example.

Indy may be close but its going to take P George being elite.

So if you don't have one of these current studs, you have to look on the landscape for the next one. You need to jump a generation and plan 6 years out. Who will it be ?

Greek Freak ?

FAH1223 · Post #25 » by **FAH1223** » Tue Feb 18, 2014 6:29 pm

Higga wrote:It's possible but in the NBA winning a championship requires a lot of luck/good timing. I mean some of the best players ever didn't win a ring because their primes coincided with Jordan, or Shaq/Kobe. You could see the same with Lebron now.

If we can land Durant though, forget it. Dynasty in D.C.

Don't forget Duncan.

If you didn't have Jordan, HAKEEM, Kobe/SHAQ, Duncan, and LeBron... all you're left with is the occasional Pistons, Celtics, Mavs...

Illmatic21 · Post #26 » by **Illmatic21** » Tue Feb 18, 2014 6:37 pm

FAH1223 wrote:
Higga wrote:It's possible but in the NBA winning a championship requires a lot of luck/good timing. I mean some of the best players ever didn't win a ring because their primes coincided with Jordan, or Shaq/Kobe. You could see the same with Lebron now.

If we can land Durant though, forget it. Dynasty in D.C.

Don't forget Duncan.

If you didn't have Jordan, HAKEEM, Kobe/SHAQ, Duncan, and LeBron... all you're left with is the occasional Pistons, Celtics, Mavs...

You casually mention Celtics and Mavs like KG/Dirk aren't generational talents themselves.. those type of guys don't come around but once every decade

Higga · Post #27 » by **Higga** » Tue Feb 18, 2014 7:05 pm

I do agree we need a superstar big to win though. You can't win without one. That's no indictment on Wall, I think the only star PG in NBA history to win a ring without a star big guy was Isiah Thomas. Even Magic had Kareem.

Pray for Durant...

Illuminaire · Post #28 » by **Illuminaire** » Tue Feb 18, 2014 8:48 pm

You need a lot of talent to win a title. It really helps if part of your talent equation is a Canis Majoris hypergiant like Lebron or Durant. You can get by with a lesser #1 guy, but only if the rest of your cast can make up for the missing mass.

Right now Wall is not a superstar. He might get there, and I hope he does; at the same time I think it's safe to say his ceiling is a notch below the true titans that stride across the league, shattering dreams and winning ballgames. Realistically speaking, Wall is in that zone of second-tier demi-gods who cannot reach the heights of Olympus without powerful help; this is not a knock on Wall, it's simply an acknowledgement that even when Thetis dipped her babe into the fire, no flames could burn away Achilles' mortality.

Wall is a lot of talent. He is not, on his own, enough. But if his mortality grounds him, imperfect deity gives him strength to fly; equip Wall with the right weapons, and he may be a titan slayer yet.

pancakes3 · Post #29 » by **pancakes3** » Tue Feb 18, 2014 9:04 pm

I feel like I'm the only one ok with us not winning a championship, as long as we were entertaining and competitive. I would actually rather us be a 2002 Sac Kings type team that gets its heart ripped out rather than be a Heat fan, and I honestly mean that. I love those turn-of-the-millenium Kings in retrospect and I regret whatever feelings I may have had about Chris Webber kept me from enjoying them fully back then.

Upper Decker · Post #30 » by **Upper Decker** » Tue Feb 18, 2014 9:19 pm

pancakes3 wrote:I feel like I'm the only one ok with us not winning a championship, as long as we were entertaining and competitive. I would actually rather us be a 2002 Sac Kings type team that gets its heart ripped out rather than be a Heat fan, and I honestly mean that. I love those turn-of-the-millenium Kings in retrospect and I regret whatever feelings I may have had about Chris Webber kept me from enjoying them fully back then.

Kings still had an elite big (Webber) and an well above average big (Divac).

Right now the Wizards have an above average big (Nene) and a certifiably below average big (Gortat). We'd need to replace Nene with Aldridge and Gortat with Asik to be the 2002 Sac Kings.

hands11 · Post #31 » by **hands11** » Tue Feb 18, 2014 11:29 pm

pancakes3 wrote:I feel like I'm the only one ok with us not winning a championship, as long as we were entertaining and competitive. I would actually rather us be a 2002 Sac Kings type team that gets its heart ripped out rather than be a Heat fan, and I honestly mean that. I love those turn-of-the-millenium Kings in retrospect and I regret whatever feelings I may have had about Chris Webber kept me from enjoying them fully back then.

Well then you will enjoy the team more then the all or nothing people because its really rare to win a title.

What I still think lies ahead though is more diversity. Title team as going to be closer to the MJ lead Bulls then the BOS big 3 or the MIA big 3. Its going to be harder to put that type of team together.

Which was a main point of the new CBA to begin with.

I'm not sure any of use know where that new level will get set. The CBA is set up to allow for some big name gathering, but not for more then 3 years and not buy doing it by going more then 5M over the cap.

Its going to be a new model. Its just starting to really kick in.

Illuminaire · Post #32 » by **Illuminaire** » Wed Feb 19, 2014 12:18 am

hands11 wrote:Well then you will enjoy the team more then the all or nothing people because its really rare to win a title.

I have yet to see one single poster on this board fit into the hole you just stuffed them, Hands.

It's not "championship or nothing." It's "compete for a championship or why are we here?" Those two sentiments are worlds apart. The former is as ridiculous as you say. The latter is a high but reasonable goal for a sports franchise.

Now, how one defines 'competing for a championship' may differ from poster to poster. I would posit that most would be very happy as the equivalent of somewhere between this year's Trailblazers or Clippers - strong teams that win consistently and, while not favorites, have a realistic chance at making it to the finals.

spaceman_E · Post #33 » by **spaceman_E** » Wed Feb 19, 2014 1:56 am

hands11 wrote:
So if you don't have one of these current studs, you have to look on the landscape for the next one. You need to jump a generation and plan 6 years out. Who will it be ?

Greek Freak ?

I really hope Embiid lands on the Bucks, I love both of those guys. Add in Wolters and Henson and whatever you can get for the rest of their roster and they could be great in 3 or 4 years. I also think people sleep on Oladipo, I see tremendous two-way potential for him. Hopefully they can get him and Vuc a running mate.

Kanyewest · Post #34 » by **Kanyewest** » Wed Feb 19, 2014 3:37 am

pancakes3 wrote:I feel like I'm the only one ok with us not winning a championship, as long as we were entertaining and competitive. I would actually rather us be a 2002 Sac Kings type team that gets its heart ripped out rather than be a Heat fan, and I honestly mean that. I love those turn-of-the-millenium Kings in retrospect and I regret whatever feelings I may have had about Chris Webber kept me from enjoying them fully back then.

The 2002 Sacramento Kings are the NBA Champions as far as I'm concerned.

Illmatic21 · Post #35 » by **Illmatic21** » Wed Feb 19, 2014 3:46 am

Wall can win if he gets away from Leonsis and the Wizards. I hope he does.

hands11 · Post #36 » by **hands11** » Wed Feb 19, 2014 4:51 am

Illuminaire wrote:
hands11 wrote:Well then you will enjoy the team more then the all or nothing people because its really rare to win a title.

I have yet to see one single poster on this board fit into the hole you just stuffed them, Hands.

It's not "championship or nothing." It's "compete for a championship or why are we here?" Those two sentiments are worlds apart. The former is as ridiculous as you say. The latter is a high but reasonable goal for a sports franchise.

Now, how one defines 'competing for a championship' may differ from poster to poster. I would posit that most would be very happy as the equivalent of somewhere between this year's Trailblazers or Clippers - strong teams that win consistently and, while not favorites, have a realistic chance at making it to the finals.

There are always lines to draw so you can include compete for a championship in that small hole you say I made for people. I have listed the team I think are in the competition for this year and POR or LAC don't make the cut.

So if that's the level of team they become, that would be fun to watch. I consider that a 2nd round winners level teams.

Right now, the Wizards with Randy as HC, I can't tell where they are. Not a title team, that is clear. But right now I don't think they would get out of the first round with Randy coaching them and that's not based on talent, it based on the crappy game coaching. And right now they aren't even fun to watch because I don't get to see any of the young players except Beal get good opportunities to contribute. So if they are going to let them rot, then I don't know what the teams potential is. Its a blank slate of what he might become with a new GM and coach.

Just hard to get behind a team that you don't know what it will be more then Wall and Beal.

Right now it sucks to be a Wizards fan and that really sucks. Right now should be a fun time.

gtn130 · Post #37 » by **gtn130** » Wed Feb 19, 2014 5:19 am

hands11 wrote:
Right now it sucks to be a Wizards fan and that really sucks. Right now should be a fun time.

This sums it up nicely.

I think back to the exciting Gilbert Arenas days when the team would hover around .500 like the 2014 Wizards. They had no real shot at a championship, but they were at least fun to watch and their future wasn't mortgaged (until Arenas' 2nd contract). Each game was something to look forward to -- those seasons were a blast.

Today, even though the records aren't that much different, is entirely depressing

.

SizzlinSimms · Post #38 » by **SizzlinSimms** » Wed Feb 19, 2014 6:08 am

gtn130 wrote:(until Arenas' 2nd contract).

And then his injury

and injury

mohammed10 · Post #39 » by **mohammed10** » Wed Feb 19, 2014 8:45 am

Let's get JWall and co. to the playoffs first.

We must crawl before we walk and run.

Higga · Post #40 » by **Higga** » Thu Feb 20, 2014 4:13 pm

I'd be happy with being a year in year out contender, like the Nash led Suns or as someone mentioned, the early 00s Kings. Give us meaningful basketball into late May. It's too unreasonable to expect a championship. Get there every year and eventually the balls bounce your way and you can win it all('11 Mavs for example).