Do Smith and Jennings care?

[The Penguin]

Honest question - Do Smith and Jennings care about winning basketball games?

Everyone writes of Smith all the time as saying he needs to be in a winning culture, but I'm calling BS. He's been in the NBA for nearly a decade now, if he cared about playing smart winning basketball he'd do it, regardless of someone like Popovich playing Jedi mind tricks on him. Same with Jennings, if he cared about winning basketball he wouldn't jack long off balance two pointers.

Do these guys care? Or do they figure "I'm getting paid, as long as I get mine then everything is ok"?

Two spinoff questions - can a player dramatically improve their BBIQ and if someone doesn't care about playing winning basketball are they going to start once they get paid?

[MotownMadness]

No, They are completely selfish players that cant change their ways to better the team. They both want to be like your Currys and Melos of the league instead of sticking to what theyre good at.

[sc8581]

Does Monroe care? He hasn't gotten any better over the last few years.
Does Drummond care? He puts up numbers but still doesn't know what he's doing on either end.
Does Gores care? He was too cheap to use the amnesty on CV last summer or Gordon before that.
Does Dumars care? ngerbebwibnnerbjerbjerberjv

Quit trying to make these guys the scapegoats.

[Piston Pete]

I think they care....

They just don't understand that them both shooting 5-18 on a nightly basis is hurting more than helping. At the end of the day, they prob feel they had a great game if 5-18 somehow translates to 16-ish points....

[Q00]

Both came here from winning environments greater than what we've had the past 5 years, so maybe we are the ones with the losing culture? People act like we've been a contender here and these guys have messed everything up lol. This team was a mess last year and still a mess, so what's the difference?

They might be looking at it the opposite themselves. They both came from playoff teams and might be questioning how they ended up in such a dysfunctional losing culture.

[dVs33]

they care about winning if they're the guys scoring and leading the way most of the time.

[MrBigShot]

I'm 100% sure Jennings cares. I think he takes pride in winning and wants to go out there and be an all star PG. Sometimes he goes overboard, particularly at the end of games when he tries to steal the ball or show boat when the game is over...but he definitely has an edge about him. I do think his shot selection sucks and that he's overly ball dominant, but I can't accuse him of not caring.

As for Smith...I think he cares too, but he's too over-confident to realize that he's a truly awful shooter. I don't think missed shots affect Smith's confidence whatsoever. I bet if you asked him, he'd tell you that he's confident in his abilities as a player and believes that he's a capable shooter....even though the numbers say otherwise.

Here's the thing: Smith/Jennings lead the team in FGA, with just over 800 a piece. The next highest is Monroe with 596, and Drummond with roughly 500. Their combined percentage? 39.9%.

These guys are supposed to our best players along with Drummond. If they continue to play at this level, we aren't going anywhere. Are they solely responsible for our record? No. But they a large part of it.

[need4detroit]

Does Monroe care? He hasn't gotten any better over the last few years.
Does Drummond care? He puts up numbers but still doesn't know what he's doing on either end.
Does Gores care? He was too cheap to use the amnesty on CV last summer or Gordon before that.
Does Dumars care? ngerbebwibnnerbjerbjerberjv

Quit trying to make these guys the scapegoats.

Monroe's gotten better. Hes just playing with some idiots now.

[Notanoob]

I'm certain that Jennings cares, but IDK about Smith. I wouldn't go so far as to accuse him of being apathetic though, just stubborn.

[kamal2_espn]

Hell yeah, they care. They wanna win probably more than anybody else on the team because they've been in the league long enough to have to have made a mark on the league. The problem is that they both believe the best way for the team to win is for them to keep playing the way they've always played. Neither went to college. In high school, they won playing the exact same way they play now. In college, a coach would have made them alter their games for the betterment of the team. They didn't get that. And then they both get drafted to bad teams and half to contribute right away, playing the same style they played in high school. If they would've been drafted by a veteran team and had to come off the bench for a year or two they wouldn't play like they do now.

Just imagine how Kobe would've played if Charlotte had never traded him.

Jennings can be salvaged I think. Smith? That ship has sailed.

[DetroitSho]

Both came here from winning environments greater than what we've had the past 5 years, so maybe we are the ones with the losing culture? People act like we've been a contender here and these guys have messed everything up lol. This team was a mess last year and still a mess, so what's the difference?

They might be looking at it the opposite themselves. They both came from playoff teams and might be questioning how they ended up in such a dysfunctional losing culture.

Lol those guys left TREADMILLS. You knew going into each season that AT BEST Atlanta could get to the second round and at best Milwaukee might win 2 playoff games. How much of a winning environment is that?

With that said, I think they both do care and would like to win, but not nearly at all costs. I also don't think they truly know HOW to win or play winning basketball. I think when the chips are down, as for most people in life, they revert back to what they know and are comfortable with doing. Only problem is those things don't come close to resembling winning basketball traits.

My girlfriend has been begging me for awhile to go ice skating. I can rollerskate a tad, but I haven't been rollerskating in over 20 years. So I know I would look kinda foolish trying to ice skate since I've never done it. My goal in life is to pretty much stick to what I'm good at and let others that do what I can't do it. I feel I will always look good at whatever I'm doing because I'm doing something I'm good at. My pride won't allow me to go out and face plant in Grand Martius Park.

This brings me to Josh Smith. I can't understand how this guy's pride doesn't kick in when he's looking like a complete scrub bricking and air balling jumpers and say hey, I'm good at slashing, let me do that. I don't see how he can watch himself on film looking utterly useless doing a certain thing on the court, let alone come back the next game and continue to do it. That's complete and utter stupidity at its finest. You keep doing something you know has a very low success rate. Shane Victorino is a switch hitter that completely stopped batting from one side of the plate in the freaking ALCS because his success rate was too low on that side. Why can't Josh figure this ish out?

So in all I think those guys enjoy winning but they certainly don't hate losing.

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[DetroitSho]

Hell yeah, they care. They wanna win probably more than anybody else on the team because they've been in the league long enough to have to have made a mark on the league. The problem is that they both believe the best way for the team to win is for them to keep playing the way they've always played. Neither went to college. In high school, they won playing the exact same way they play now. In college, a coach would have made them alter their games for the betterment of the team. They didn't get that. And then they both get drafted to bad teams and half to contribute right away, playing the same style they played in high school. If they would've been drafted by a veteran team and had to come off the bench for a year or two they wouldn't play like they do now.

Just imagine how Kobe would've played if Charlotte had never traded him.

Jennings can be salvaged I think. Smith? That ship has sailed.

I seriously hate this "if they would've went to college" argument. There's guys in the league similar to these two who have played in college. People say Melo is a low IQ chucker, and he carried a team to an NCAA championship playing the exact same way.

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[zeebneeb]

I see a lot of this sentiment as of late, but I look at it in reverse terms;

Does our front office care that Smith and Jennings have been made scapegoats because they cant build a team properly?

Jennings is an okay shooter, with NO ONE ELSE that can shoot the ball.

Smith is a PF, playing the SF position, a position, that requires someone to usually play away from the basket, and usually shoot the ball. I thought he would do better in that slot, I was dreadfully wrong.

They obviously care, but when put into positions, that they cant really succeed in, people will burn them at the stake.

Unless of course everyone here can do their jobs without the correct tools, or do someone elses job, as good as their own.

That's how I look at it. I like both players, just fine. In their current setting, they have both been struggling. I really think that is to be expected with how the team has been constructed. If Smith came off the bench, and played the PF slot, he would excel. If Jennings had a capable SG, and SF, that could both shoot, he would be more efficient.

[Invictus88]

If Smith came off the bench, and played the PF slot, he would excel.

Sorry zeeb but I have to disagree with this. The notion that Smith's problems would disappear being a PF are a fallacy.

Smith has had plenty of time at PF this year. He has not excelled. Someone put up shot charts for when Smith played PF vs SF. They were nearly identical.

Even defensively he hasn't played that great -- regardless of position. You can argue he has good physical tools but the results are what they are.

I do agree with you on one thing though: He should definitely be coming off the bench.

[kamal2_espn]

Hell yeah, they care. They wanna win probably more than anybody else on the team because they've been in the league long enough to have to have made a mark on the league. The problem is that they both believe the best way for the team to win is for them to keep playing the way they've always played. Neither went to college. In high school, they won playing the exact same way they play now. In college, a coach would have made them alter their games for the betterment of the team. They didn't get that. And then they both get drafted to bad teams and half to contribute right away, playing the same style they played in high school. If they would've been drafted by a veteran team and had to come off the bench for a year or two they wouldn't play like they do now.

Just imagine how Kobe would've played if Charlotte had never traded him.

Jennings can be salvaged I think. Smith? That ship has sailed.

I seriously hate this "if they would've went to college" argument. There's guys in the league similar to these two who have played in college. People say Melo is a low IQ chucker, and he carried a team to an NCAA championship playing the exact same way.

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Really? Besides Kobe, Lebron, Garnett, and to a lesser extent, Howard, who else who didn't go to college played winning basketball? McGrady? Stoudemire? He played on some winning teams, but that was mostly system. Monte Ellis? JR Smith? Telfair? Big Al? Harrington? Lou Williams? Amir Johnson? Stephen Jackson?

I gotta be missing somebody. My point is that a lot of those guys are dynamic talents. But they don't know how to win. Most of them played the same way they played in high school, to the detriment of the team. It takes the right system, coach, or veteran teammates to get these guys to alter their games to winning basketball. Some guys never get that opportunity.

And Carmelo is not a low IQ chucker. He's a top 5 player in the league and I wish we'd have drafted him.

[zeebneeb]

If Smith came off the bench, and played the PF slot, he would excel.

Sorry zeeb but I have to disagree with this. The notion that Smith's problems would disappear being a PF are a fallacy.

Smith has had plenty of time at PF this year. He has not excelled. Someone put up shot charts for when Smith played PF vs SF. They were nearly identical.

Even defensively he hasn't played that great -- regardless of position. You can argue he has good physical tools but the results are what they are.

I do agree with you on one thing though: He should definitely be coming off the bench.

That's exactly why I said PF, and off the bench. He absolutely would excel if both of those requirments were met.

[Finn McCool]

Funny question and even funnier answers. Who knows what Jennings and Smith are thinking. This was a team that looked like crap before they got here... and it seems as though the problems are still here.

[The Penguin]

Perhaps Smith and Jennings are unfairly scapegoated. They were our big FA acquisitions, typically when a team trades a valuable draft pick to position for FA they add players the franchise can lean on. I guess we all like to assume the structure for a championship franchise is there as well all witnessed a sustained run of success very recently, but I do think all levels deserve blame.

Ownership - Gores appears clueless and cheap. He wants the franchise to win but doesn't appear to be willing to the extra financial outlay (ie an amnesty of Gordon to accomplish the same thing the trade did) and unwilling to commit to actual rebuilding.

GM - By this point it appears painfully obvious Joe is a day late and a dollar short. He's worried about losing his job so he's not willing to really go the "get bad to get good" route. Fully committing to patiently building around Drummond is committing to do so for someone else.

Coaching - It's been an absolute revolving door. Because of the lack of stability we've basically put our players in a position where they don't need accountability. If you don't like what the coach is saying, ignore it and you'll get a new one in a year or so.



In retrospect winners (and losers) are built from the top down. We can complain all we want about Dumars but realistically he's been put in a difficult spot tasked to build a contender NOW. This situation really reminds me of when Lebron first got to Cleveland, instead of being patient and drafting high upside young guys around him (ie the Thunder plan) the Cavs went all in to try to be a playoff team asap. They ultimately ended up crippled in their ability to add a second complementary piece around him. We aren't quite crippled yet, but I could see it happening if the aim continues to be "damn the future, I want playoff revenue NOW".

[kurtis48239]

Iam pretty sure jennings and more so smith know how they look to the fans and outside the NBA.Has anyone thought maybe gores,dumars,loyer has told smith to keep shooting.No one knows whats going on behind the scenes and it might be a case of smith following orders since besides jennings, smith is the only one on the starting unit (as of now) that can hit shoots out to the 3 (even if he stinks).Singler has been starting for 4-5 games and even tho he is better than smith he isnt all worldly.Ive heard the argument 100 times that he was the same way in atlanta,but he was also a more productive and well rounded player also.

All iam saying is we dont know whats going on behind the scenes.

[joseph mamah]

nah, as long as the checks come on time and they score some points its all good.