2013

[DD12]

like 90% sure this is the reason why Ancelotti kept Di Maria instead of Ozil.

One of the most overrated players in the world.

Di Maria or Özil?

Both suck in my opinion. Di Maria has 0 football iq. Mesut is 0 defense and disappears in big games. That's why germany, werder never won anything with him. Real barely won a la liga.

Cristiano and Yilmaz ftw!

[cgf]

When one player is clearly superior at the ten to the other there is a clear right and wrong. And I love toni kroos, he's last DDR born star who's basically the world class version of Torsten Mattuschka, my eiserne's captain and talisman.

Admit it, you only posted this b/c you wanted to mention Torsten Mattuschka in the Champions League thread.

(BTW, Manuel Neuer is a world class version of Tobias Sippel. )

Like I need a reason to rave about the living legend lol.

But there's actually a lot of similarity in their games, as both are slow #10s who excel because of their fantastic reading of space in possession to drift around and find room to utilize their excellent shooting technique and ability to hit long diagonals in transition. Kroos is just the first division version who's still got room to grow.

I mean this is a weird argument because I like Kroos as a dude more than I do Ozil, we share that weird identity of still being stamped easterners by our families and others, even though that country was gone before we even started speaking. And my favorite player of all time was an east german CM who was great on the ball, could hit beautiful long outlet balls, fought like a demon and had a rocket of a shot, Matthias Sammer. So Toni's got everything going for him to make me pick him...except Mesut is just a more brilliant passer and playmaker, which is what the 10 position is all about. *shrug*

[cgf]

Neuer on German TV: "I know about the rules but this should not be a red card for the keeper. Arsenal was punished enough with the penalty

He's right. But the rule exists and players and fans should be aware of it, even if it is excessively unfair, punishing teams far more harshly than what the transgression robbed their opposition of as the difference between a sure-fire goal and a PK is not a man advantage.

[Maex]

[...]except Mesut is just a more brilliant passer and playmaker, which is what the 10 position is all about. *shrug*

I think that might actually be the point where we seem to disagree. For me this is a old version of the #10 position and a newer version should be able to offer more than that.

But it might be only a difference of preferences.

[cgf]

No it's much clearly than that. I just know we won't win because of Jogi, who will is still puzzle. Who's the better 10 between Ozil and Kroos is not, even after this game where Kroos looked great with the best team in the world around him facing 10 men while Ozil struggled out on the wing with an inferior team and having to defend for an entire half. I love the kid, but his touch in tight areas is levels below Ozil's and while he's a great retention passer and long ball guy, like Schweini, he's not even comparable to mesut at playing killer balls in tight areas. Which isn't to say he's bad at it or that combined with his shoot he isn't also tremendously effective on a team that play slowly and dominate possession, just that Mesut is the world's best #10, and Toni isn't, regardless of how badly you or I wish that he was.

The only thing which is clear here, is that you are only rating the offensive performance and that you don't care about the other parts of the games, namely defense and pressing.

And while you make it sound, like it is only this game, Kroos played 24 games in the Bundesliga, 9 games in the CL and 3 games in the domestic cup for Bayern Munich last season and most of them as a 10. So we have more than enough sample size and do not have to compare them.

I just prefer the whole pakage from Toni Kroos over the one of Özil. Add to that the link up play between Götze, Müller, Schweinsteiger, Lahm,... because all of them practice and play together over the whole year and you get why I would prefer Kroos over Özil (when it is either or).

We're talking about the one position on the pitch where intensive pressing isn't a necessity, even in todays game, and Ozil's defense work is always blown out of proportion, even with Madrid he intercepted many passes to break up attacks, especially in the big moments of the Clasico. Toni brings more defensively and I acknowledged as much in every post on this subject, but that's not what you decide your 10 on, especially when there's such a clear difference in what they bring offensively. That's why I want jogi to follow the experiment he stumbled and to innovate, finding a way to allow Kroos play the deeper position he prefers alongside Mesut playing the more advanced position he prefers. The man is a genius, and outside of Lahm and Neuer hands down our best player, you accommodate brilliance when it's not complicated instead of settling for just an excellent guy and a lesser player playing as the striker.

[...]except Mesut is just a more brilliant passer and playmaker, which is what the 10 position is all about. *shrug*

I think that might actually be the point where we seem to disagree. For me this is a old version of the #10 position and a newer version should be able to offer more than that.

But it might be only a difference of preferences.

Which I wouldn't disagree with, as a Riquelme really doesn't work, but Mesut does bring those other things, especially when he puts on the NT's jersey. He chips in goals at twice the rate he does for his clubs, he drifts off of our pressing to try and fill the gaps Jogi's disasters always leave, and his movement creates space almost as excellently as his insane touch with his passing and dribbling.

[Foye]

Are you guys watching Ozil "defend?"

like 90% sure this is the reason why Ancelotti kept Di Maria instead of Ozil.

One of the most overrated players in the world.

Been saying this for a while. Özil cant deal with pressure. Only Wenger knows why they let him take a penalty in an important game.

Not to mention he was offside before that penalty anyway.

[FluLikeSymptoms]

Robben had already hit the ball and it was going out. The foul didn't affect the play- draconian, I tells ya!

[5DOM]

I think Ozil's basically a rich man's Coutinho. Just decent when he's not making those killer passes.

[cgf]

I think Ozil's basically a rich man's Coutinho. Just decent when he's not making those killer passes.

This complete neglects how much room he has created for Klose/Reus/Mueller/Poldi through his movements, all of the sustained pressure that his support in retention creates to shelter our D, as well as just how well he can draw attention and create space with the ball if his movements off the ball don't do enough to create one touch passing lanes.

Ozil needs dangerous goal scoring wingers to feed because his motion creates a lot of space in the middle, and if guys can't take advantage of that space, and he's not given the ball to feed them into that space, he won't be effective, but that's true of literally every playmaker alive.

[Foye]

Robben had already hit the ball and it was going out. The foul didn't affect the play- draconian, I tells ya!

Robben might look like an old man but he is fast enough to tap that in if Szczesny doesn't hit him.

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V47Mvi2y-9Q[/youtube]

Just a mental lapse by Szczesny. A goal conceeded would've been better than down to 10 men for an hour.

[MaliBrah]

I thought he was running the show and his movement was killing bayern before they went down to ten men. But thats just me. Been up and down this season but with our injury problems he's been run into the ground lately and will improve. You guys are being way too harsh on him. He's had huge games for germany and against barca I dont know why thats being tossed aside right now. Arsenal were ten men vs the best team in the world and maybe history. He's certainly at fault for a lack of effort there but 1 hour with a man down he was just exhausted.

[Man of Steel]

Di Maria or Özil?

Both suck in my opinion. Di Maria has 0 football iq. Mesut is 0 defense and disappears in big games. That's why germany, werder never won anything with him. Real barely won a la liga.

Cristiano and Yilmaz ftw!

I used to think you were wrong about Di Maria, but watching him play I have to agree that he is a poor decision maker. He's a great cross on the ball, a decent shot here and there, and he'll leave a defenders ankles twisted up once in a while but his real quality comes from his work rate; Carlo found him a good role playing the hole behind Ronaldo in midfield, so his lack of "iq" has a minimal impact while his athleticism makes him look like the perfect player for our team.

Özil's different- he has to be put in a particular situation in order to be effective. People who say he can't deal with pressure haven't watched any of the Liga clasicos in the last few years though- every goal Cristiano scored against the culés was assisted by either Özil or Di Maria, who were found by Xabi Alonso. Arsenal lack their only pacy forward right now with Walcott out and Özil doesn't have a Xabi Alonso to find him in the right places.

Agreed on that last count though

[MaliBrah]

only thing i'll blame ozil for tonight is his penalty miss.

atletico is such a dirty team

[Man of Steel]

The knives are out!

And the specialist himself:


Jokes aside, Bayern are better at what, 10 out of 11 spots? 11 out of 11?

[MaliBrah]

lmao wenger trolling.

Arsenal were down a man against the best team in the world. The mirror are such sensationalists. Yesterday they were running with a harsh on man city story line. The same team that started a leftback in midfield and were dominated from start to finish. Arsenal actually went for the game but we're the specialists in failure. What a joke.

Bayern have better players at 10/11 spots IMO. Koscielny would start for them.

[MaliBrah]

forgot woj will now be suspended.. 3 times the punishment. It's a dumb rule really.

[Foye]

Bayern need Schweinsteiger and Ribery back btw.

They played pretty awful today. Not enough tempo in their actions. Especially, Thiago slows the game down a lot. Dont like it.
Kroos played really well, though.

[EArl]

Highlights from Yesterdays game.

[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UItJR25wVk0[/youtube]

[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=upCjF7geALI[/youtube]

[EArl]

Todays Games
[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kbbb2BtBPO0[/youtube]
[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cbJkdlM6eIc[/youtube]

[DD12]

Di Maria or Özil?

Both suck in my opinion. Di Maria has 0 football iq. Mesut is 0 defense and disappears in big games. That's why germany, werder never won anything with him. Real barely won a la liga.

Cristiano and Yilmaz ftw!

I used to think you were wrong about Di Maria, but watching him play I have to agree that he is a poor decision maker. He's a great cross on the ball, a decent shot here and there, and he'll leave a defenders ankles twisted up once in a while but his real quality comes from his work rate; Carlo found him a good role playing the hole behind Ronaldo in midfield, so his lack of "iq" has a minimal impact while his athleticism makes him look like the perfect player for our team.

Özil's different- he has to be put in a particular situation in order to be effective. People who say he can't deal with pressure haven't watched any of the Liga clasicos in the last few years though- every goal Cristiano scored against the culés was assisted by either Özil or Di Maria, who were found by Xabi Alonso. Arsenal lack their only pacy forward right now with Walcott out and Özil doesn't have a Xabi Alonso to find him in the right places.

Agreed on that last count though

As I said, I make bold statements but none of them is coming from nowhere. I watch a lot of games from the particular players before I make a comment.

Di Maria has really low football IQ. His work rate/ethics his best attribute. I don't think that he is a Real Madrid caliber player. He seems just okay since he is playing with Cris, Bale etc such world class players.

Ozil, on the other hand, is just lazy, 0 work rate, 0 professionalism, no defense player. Most of the people just fall for his statistics but if you are having a 5 out of 10 technique and average football iq, you would do those numbers with Cristiano Ronaldo, Benzema, Kaka etc etc. He is not a difference maker in my opinion.

There are a lot of players like Ozil and Di Maria who are playing with the best teams in the world and pretty overrated. Pedro, Busquets, Javi Martinez etc etc. They just seem good because of players who are on the same team with these players. If you replace them with average player from average team and league, you won't miss them much.