2013

[Ted Lasso]

Özil third in distance covered, Murdersacker surprisingly high too

Ozil is so lazy getting out run by flamini and wilshere, like what kind of a joke is that? Toni Kroos would never let this happen...

There is a Massimo-level lack of perspective in this post. There is no way to tell when and for what he ran just by looking at the number. There is a reason teams privately separate those by offensive and defensive runs.

In addition, Ozil's problem is that even when gets in position to defend, he simply doesn't. He can't press, and he can't defend an area because he doesn't battle physically, so it's vital that he plays exclusively in the middle because the only thing he is capable of doing effectively defensively is cutting off passing angles. He was mind-numbingly poor on the left yesterday. I don't see how the distance he covered is going to combat that argument.

[Ong_dynasty]

I think even guardiola knew that Boateng was near a sending hence why he took him off.

A few things after i have cleared my head.

It really is a shame that a Red Card was given. It was such a great game in the making. I really hate when a referee has a big say in a sporting event (any sporting event). It is true what I read somewhere, Fifa or Uefa should really look at the idea of giving a penalty and a red card. I mean you have already made upfor the goal scoring oppotunity with a penalty why do you also have to give a red card. I remember reading somewhere the idea of an Orange card (i.e. a sin bin for around 15 mins) which for me makes so much sense in games like this.

Another gripe I have is, uefa and fifa should look at the touch after, I mean robbens touch was heavy, even if he was not fould there was no way that was a clear goal-scoring opportunity. But I would not blame Robben for that..those are the rules..and I understand it may be difficult as it is subjective. But something to look at. I find it unfair where a player can just kick the ball forward without any control and still get a penalty.

Wenger should have not brought up diving and all that. I thought Bayern played well (which should be that difficult with 10 men for 60 minutes) and did not really do things no normal team in europe would have not done.

With regards to Ozil. its a shame the penalty seem to have got to his head for a while and seemed to try harder because of it. I dont blame wenger for keeping him on. we needed an outlet and Ozil did provide it at times it just wasnt working for him.

and the daily mirror headline. yes arsenal are failures for not beating the best team in europe with 10 men...

[Foye]

I hope Robben gets banned forever for spitting on Bac, btw. The hateful twat

He did not spit. It was sweat running from his chin.

just watched highlights again and it amazes me how boateng escaped a red card.

1. He trips up ozil in the box , and ozil is through on goal with sanogo in support and a couple bayern defenders but not any closer than sagna to robben. Clear goal scoring opportunity. Penalty and yellow( ref changes standards later when he should have made this call in the woj vs robben situation) no consistency.

2. Boateng running through gibbs , injuring him in the process. Cynical foul to stop a promising counter attack. Clear yellow card , ref refuses to send him off.

zero consistency and a terrible rule decides a tie.

Please lets not forget that Özil was offside. At least that's what they said on German tv (I was kinda late for this situation). So it should've been Bayern free kick instead of penalty and any card for Boateng.

Maybe, the way he's stretched though he's not keeping pace, and he's not in control of the ball. Which is one of the main things they're supposed to consider when judging whether it's an obvious goal scoring opportunity. It's a pen for me, like Boatengs, but no red. But, whatevs, watching that clip just makes me mad at Monreal.

Mandzukic sets a nice pick on Koscielny from an offside position, though

He is not in obvious control of the ball? If he does not get hit he easily taps that one in. I don't know how you can be more in control of the ball.

Robben was way in front of Sagna and Monreal and Szczecny was outta the way. Had Szczecny not hit him this would've surely been a goal.

The red card might've been a little harsh but you can definitely give it. Arsenal shouldn't blame the ref for the mental brainfarts of their players here. Same with Demichelis against Barca.

It is CL football. You gotta work a little with your brain, too, knowing the tie isn't decided in one game. Szeczny clearly didn't work with his brain and Arsenal got the bill for it.

[Ong_dynasty]

^
But it was not offside..at the very best it was on line giving the offensive player the advantage.
and since the play carried on, boateng was the last player / clear goal scoring opportunity right? surely a red card as well right? (if you want to talk about the letter of the law).

Look I have no problem with the penalty, but i just do not like (in any game) when a red card ruins a spectacle, you already gave a penalty. Now i know this is not the refs fault (although one could argue the boateng was for consistency) and more to do with the letter of the law.

[MaliBrah]

just watched highlights again and it amazes me how boateng escaped a red card.

1. He trips up ozil in the box , and ozil is through on goal with sanogo in support and a couple bayern defenders but not any closer than sagna to robben. Clear goal scoring opportunity. Penalty and yellow( ref changes standards later when he should have made this call in the woj vs robben situation) no consistency.

2. Boateng running through gibbs , injuring him in the process. Cynical foul to stop a promising counter attack. Clear yellow card , ref refuses to send him off.

zero consistency and a terrible rule decides a tie.

Please lets not forget that Özil was offside. At least that's what they said on German tv (I was kinda late for this situation). So it should've been Bayern free kick instead of penalty and any card for Boateng.

He was just as offside as mandzukic was interfering with play by obstructing koscilenys path on that red card incident. Point is ... Zero consistency on a stupid subjective rule.

I'm glad uefa and multiple countries football associations are making moves to change this rule.

[IronChef]

I hope Robben gets banned forever for spitting on Bac, btw. The hateful twat

He did not spit. It was sweat running from his chin.

just watched highlights again and it amazes me how boateng escaped a red card.

1. He trips up ozil in the box , and ozil is through on goal with sanogo in support and a couple bayern defenders but not any closer than sagna to robben. Clear goal scoring opportunity. Penalty and yellow( ref changes standards later when he should have made this call in the woj vs robben situation) no consistency.

2. Boateng running through gibbs , injuring him in the process. Cynical foul to stop a promising counter attack. Clear yellow card , ref refuses to send him off.

zero consistency and a terrible rule decides a tie.

Please lets not forget that Özil was offside. At least that's what they said on German tv (I was kinda late for this situation). So it should've been Bayern free kick instead of penalty and any card for Boateng.

Maybe, the way he's stretched though he's not keeping pace, and he's not in control of the ball. Which is one of the main things they're supposed to consider when judging whether it's an obvious goal scoring opportunity. It's a pen for me, like Boatengs, but no red. But, whatevs, watching that clip just makes me mad at Monreal.

Mandzukic sets a nice pick on Koscielny from an offside position, though

He is not in obvious control of the ball? If he does not get hit he easily taps that one in. I don't know how you can be more in control of the ball.

Robben was way in front of Sagna and Monreal and Szczecny was outta the way. Had Szczecny not hit him this would've surely been a goal.

The red card might've been a little harsh but you can definitely give it. Arsenal shouldn't blame the ref for the mental brainfarts of their players here. Same with Demichelis against Barca.

It is CL football. You gotta work a little with your brain, too, knowing the tie isn't decided in one game. Szeczny clearly didn't work with his brain and Arsenal got the bill for it.

Özil was not offside, he was on.

You can certainly be more in control of the ball than having a single touch, which goes wide, while you're at full stretch in the air. Dribbling with the ball on the ground, for one example, are you serious?

Boateng didn't work with his brain either, all we're asking for is a little consistency. Boateng should have got the same decision as Szcs, and also should have gone for a second yellow after, but he got nothing.

Why you think we shouldn't discuss if game changing ref decisions are the right ones is beyond me.

[IronChef]

Özil third in distance covered, Murdersacker surprisingly high too

Ozil is so lazy getting out run by flamini and wilshere, like what kind of a joke is that? Toni Kroos would never let this happen...

There is a Massimo-level lack of perspective in this post. There is no way to tell when and for what he ran just by looking at the number. There is a reason teams privately separate those by offensive and defensive runs.

In addition, Ozil's problem is that even when gets in position to defend, he simply doesn't. He can't press, and he can't defend an area because he doesn't battle physically, so it's vital that he plays exclusively in the middle because the only thing he is capable of doing effectively defensively is cutting off passing angles. He was mind-numbingly poor on the left yesterday. I don't see how the distance he covered is going to combat that argument.

It combats the argument that he's lazy, and has zero work rate. As has been said numerous times in this thread. He's not a defender, and shouldn't be a left back, no doubt. But, we were down to ten men and he still controlled the game at the start, and pushed to counter whenever there was a chance after that.

[5DOM]

I think Ozil's basically a rich man's Coutinho. Just decent when he's not making those killer passes.

This complete neglects how much room he has created for Klose/Reus/Mueller/Poldi through his movements, all of the sustained pressure that his support in retention creates to shelter our D, as well as just how well he can draw attention and create space with the ball if his movements off the ball don't do enough to create one touch passing lanes.

He certainly hasn't shown any incredible off-the-ball movement or defensive work in England. And all of those things, even workhorses like Kuyt and Park could do. What sets him apart are the creativity and the skills to execute, and they seem to be challenged atm. It is his first season in a new league/country, so I guess he could get better given more time.

Ozil needs dangerous goal scoring wingers to feed because his motion creates a lot of space in the middle, and if guys can't take advantage of that space, and he's not given the ball to feed them into that space, he won't be effective, but that's true of literally every playmaker alive.

There aren't a lot of dangerous goal scoring wingers around. So he needs some of the best players in the world like Reus, Muller, and Ronaldo around him to be successful? It's just that a lot of people have been saying he's the best #10 in the world, but I think he's not even the best playmaker on his own team. The likes of Mata and Cazorla have been very effective with less than ideal teammates, not least because they are bigger goal threats IMO.

[IronChef]

It's worth noting Özil is second in the PL in assists, and top 3 in Europe in chances created, Santi is not even close.

He moves off the ball very well, he finds space all game. He's by far the best playmaker on Arsenal. He's been struggling, up and down, since mid-December. But, I think it has more to do with him being tired from playing every game, missing a winter break, and adjusting to a new league, than him being overrated.

[5DOM]

Hence my rich man's Coutinho comparison. Great passing and vision but not much else, at least IMO. And like you said it could just be the case of a player from a foreign league adjusting to a different league without a winter break. Silva, Mata and Cazorla all struggled to maintain their bright early form in their first season IIRC, and some players just don't do well in cold weather.

[Foye]

I hope Robben gets banned forever for spitting on Bac, btw. The hateful twat

He did not spit. It was sweat running from his chin.

just watched highlights again and it amazes me how boateng escaped a red card.

1. He trips up ozil in the box , and ozil is through on goal with sanogo in support and a couple bayern defenders but not any closer than sagna to robben. Clear goal scoring opportunity. Penalty and yellow( ref changes standards later when he should have made this call in the woj vs robben situation) no consistency.

2. Boateng running through gibbs , injuring him in the process. Cynical foul to stop a promising counter attack. Clear yellow card , ref refuses to send him off.

zero consistency and a terrible rule decides a tie.

Please lets not forget that Özil was offside. At least that's what they said on German tv (I was kinda late for this situation). So it should've been Bayern free kick instead of penalty and any card for Boateng.

Maybe, the way he's stretched though he's not keeping pace, and he's not in control of the ball. Which is one of the main things they're supposed to consider when judging whether it's an obvious goal scoring opportunity. It's a pen for me, like Boatengs, but no red. But, whatevs, watching that clip just makes me mad at Monreal.

Mandzukic sets a nice pick on Koscielny from an offside position, though

He is not in obvious control of the ball? If he does not get hit he easily taps that one in. I don't know how you can be more in control of the ball.

Robben was way in front of Sagna and Monreal and Szczecny was outta the way. Had Szczecny not hit him this would've surely been a goal.

The red card might've been a little harsh but you can definitely give it. Arsenal shouldn't blame the ref for the mental brainfarts of their players here. Same with Demichelis against Barca.

It is CL football. You gotta work a little with your brain, too, knowing the tie isn't decided in one game. Szeczny clearly didn't work with his brain and Arsenal got the bill for it.

Özil was not offside, he was on.

You can certainly be more in control of the ball than having a single touch, which goes wide, while you're at full stretch in the air. Dribbling with the ball on the ground, for one example, are you serious?

Boateng didn't work with his brain either, all we're asking for is a little consistency. Boateng should have got the same decision as Szcs, and also should have gone for a second yellow after, but he got nothing.

Why you think we shouldn't discuss if game changing ref decisions are the right ones is beyond me.

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GpcTzXtDpco[/youtube]

Stop it at 0:03 it's pretty clear that he is offside for a step but no criticism to the refs. Hardly viewable without camera review.

Szczecny's red card was definitely a lot more obvious since Robben had nothing left between him and the open goal if he doesn't get hit.Just a brainfart by Szczecny. As a goalkeeper you can't go into a tackle like that. Either he has to have the ball in that situation or let Robben score. Can't foul then.

For Boateng you can at least say that Alaba was almost on same level and closer to the middle. And of course there was a goalkeeper in the net. All of which wasn't the case when Robben got fouled.

I can see why you guys are pissed that Boateng didn't get a red but it's far less of an obvious one than Woj's.

[IronChef]

When Jack releases the ball, Mesut looks to be in line with/slightly behind Dante to me. But it's hard to tell exactly from that angle. Calling that offside would be ridiculously harsh.

Szcz went for the ball and misjudged it. There was certainly contact, although Robben embellished it. So I can certainly call it a pen. But you can't expect him to make no play at all on the ball, and saying any/contact foul by the keeper is a red and pen because he's the keeper/last man is ridiculous to me. It's a bad rule, and poor enforcement of a bad rule.

Dimichelis was sent off for fouling when the keeper was still in his net, btw.

[IronChef]

Hence my rich man's Coutinho comparison. Great passing and vision but not much else, at least IMO. And like you said it could just be the case of a player from a foreign league adjusting to a different league without a winter break. Silva, Mata and Cazorla all struggled to maintain their bright early form in their first season IIRC, and some players just don't do well in cold weather.

He's a great dribbler as well...

I don't think he needs great wingers like Ronaldo to be effective, but he needs people making runs and our offence has been painfully static this past month or so. Without Polid, Theo, Gnabry, or Ramsey playing there is no one making those runs for him to pick out. Something we need to address, imo.

[Ong_dynasty]

When Jack releases the ball, Mesut looks to be in line with/slightly behind Dante to me. But it's hard to tell exactly from that angle. Calling that offside would be ridiculously harsh.

Szcz went for the ball and misjudged it. There was certainly contact, although Robben embellished it. So I can certainly call it a pen. But you can't expect him to make no play at all on the ball, and saying any/contact foul by the keeper is a red and pen because he's the keeper/last man is ridiculous to me. It's a bad rule, and poor enforcement of a bad rule.

Dimichelis was sent off for fouling when the keeper was still in his net, btw.

I also want to add ( I have not seen the replay) robbens touch was heavy and created a tough angle, so it was not as easy as Foye is making it out to be. And you can't even blame the contact since the contact was after robbens touch.

[IronChef]

Sanogo won 10/10 duels verse Bayern, most in a CL game this year. Wonder if he'll get the start against Sunderland.

[Foye]

When Jack releases the ball, Mesut looks to be in line with/slightly behind Dante to me. But it's hard to tell exactly from that angle. Calling that offside would be ridiculously harsh.

Szcz went for the ball and misjudged it. There was certainly contact, although Robben embellished it. So I can certainly call it a pen. But you can't expect him to make no play at all on the ball, and saying any/contact foul by the keeper is a red and pen because he's the keeper/last man is ridiculous to me. It's a bad rule, and poor enforcement of a bad rule.

Dimichelis was sent off for fouling when the keeper was still in his net, btw.

http://livetv.sx/de/showvideo/178480_arsenal_bayern/

16:14. You can see he is offside. Again, I'm not saying the refs blew it since it's just by a step but it's clearly offside. Also, Özil is going down way too easily. He wanted the penalty right from the start. I would go that far to say some refs would've booked him for a flop because Boateng barely touches him with his knee.

In America they say ball don't lie to this situation.

Woj on the other end there is no arguing that it was a penalty. And if it's a penalty under current rules the red card is ok. As Neuer pointed out after the game. The rule is kinda crap, yes.

[BUCKnation]

Never foul deserved a red card and I also don't think they would have gotten a goal from either play.

[Ong_dynasty]

When Jack releases the ball, Mesut looks to be in line with/slightly behind Dante to me. But it's hard to tell exactly from that angle. Calling that offside would be ridiculously harsh.

Szcz went for the ball and misjudged it. There was certainly contact, although Robben embellished it. So I can certainly call it a pen. But you can't expect him to make no play at all on the ball, and saying any/contact foul by the keeper is a red and pen because he's the keeper/last man is ridiculous to me. It's a bad rule, and poor enforcement of a bad rule.

Dimichelis was sent off for fouling when the keeper was still in his net, btw.

http://livetv.sx/de/showvideo/178480_arsenal_bayern/

16:14. You can see he is offside. Again, I'm not saying the refs blew it since it's just by a step but it's clearly offside. Also, Özil is going down way too easily. He wanted the penalty right from the start. I would go that far to say some refs would've booked him for a flop because Boateng barely touches him with his knee.

In America they say ball don't lie to this situation.

Woj on the other end there is no arguing that it was a penalty. And if it's a penalty under current rules the red card is ok. As Neuer pointed out after the game. The rule is kinda crap, yes.

But the ball lies when it's bayern penalty I assume?

[IronChef]

When Jack releases the ball, Mesut looks to be in line with/slightly behind Dante to me. But it's hard to tell exactly from that angle. Calling that offside would be ridiculously harsh.

Szcz went for the ball and misjudged it. There was certainly contact, although Robben embellished it. So I can certainly call it a pen. But you can't expect him to make no play at all on the ball, and saying any/contact foul by the keeper is a red and pen because he's the keeper/last man is ridiculous to me. It's a bad rule, and poor enforcement of a bad rule.

Dimichelis was sent off for fouling when the keeper was still in his net, btw.

http://livetv.sx/de/showvideo/178480_arsenal_bayern/

16:14. You can see he is offside. Again, I'm not saying the refs blew it since it's just by a step but it's clearly offside. Also, Özil is going down way too easily. He wanted the penalty right from the start. I would go that far to say some refs would've booked him for a flop because Boateng barely touches him with his knee.

In America they say ball don't lie to this situation.

Woj on the other end there is no arguing that it was a penalty. And if it's a penalty under current rules the red card is ok. As Neuer pointed out after the game. The rule is kinda crap, yes.

Card Mesut for diving?! LOL That's fackin rich

That video isn't working for me, take a screen shot or something cause every clip I've seen has shown Özil onside. If anyone is offside it's Mandzukic when he impedes Koscielny for Robbens pen. But, we could do this all day. If you're happy with how that game went, then great.

[Foye]

When Jack releases the ball, Mesut looks to be in line with/slightly behind Dante to me. But it's hard to tell exactly from that angle. Calling that offside would be ridiculously harsh.

Szcz went for the ball and misjudged it. There was certainly contact, although Robben embellished it. So I can certainly call it a pen. But you can't expect him to make no play at all on the ball, and saying any/contact foul by the keeper is a red and pen because he's the keeper/last man is ridiculous to me. It's a bad rule, and poor enforcement of a bad rule.

Dimichelis was sent off for fouling when the keeper was still in his net, btw.

I also want to add ( I have not seen the replay) robbens touch was heavy and created a tough angle, so it was not as easy as Foye is making it out to be. And you can't even blame the contact since the contact was after robbens touch.

That angle is not tough for a left foot. Maybe if you are right foot it is tough but any professional soccer player should be able to score in this situation.