Danny Ferry is not the rainmaker.... Billy King is.

[diesel50]

Everybody talks about how Danny Ferry Snukered Billy King into the Joe Johnson trade.

Well, what exactly did we get?
Flexibility??

So after resigning Joe so that we can sell the team to Pizza Man, the first team that inquired about Joe was where we released him with one hope... the first round pick (Bebe) and a swap of picks.

Well, earlier this season, it looked like we would be getting a lottery pick from Brooklyn. Now, it seems like Kidd has said the right words because Brooklyn now has a better record than us. Joe = Joe Jesus. And we're sitting at the party with the I just ate ass face.

The worst part about it is that Billy King brought that trade to his buddy Danny...
However, what has Danny Done since?

This Jamison crap is baffling. He's running that line, we like our guys. That's the same thing I heard from Sund... We like our core. In both cases, there was a blatant ignoring of the shortcomings going on.
We will see how it turns out.

[Saintsteven]

Nothing will change until the Hawks commit to the future of the franchise and execute a proper tank.
Even if it succeeds you get franchise players and some actual excitement about the direction of the franchise.
If it fails, you will be in the draft lottery treadmill, which isn't much worse than the low seed play off treadmill since fan enthusiasm is at a shockingly low level even when the team clinches playoff berths.

[ATL Boy]

smh, stop overreacting to an injury plagued season.

We got a good bigman prospect in Bebe from the trade and we shed that horrendous contract Joe has which will just keep raising his pay. We have some of the stingiest owners who would do anything to avoid the lux tax. If we had kept Joe we wouldn't have been able to sign Millsap and we'd be a mediocre team for the next few years.

If Horford doesn't go down with an injury, we'd be the 3 seed right now and there would be no discussion about who won that trade, idk why there's even a discussion right now.

[parson]

Welcome, Saintsteven. Glad you're here.

Are you visiting from another board (in which case I'll tell you how dumb I think tanking is) or are you a Hawks fan (in which case I'll be nice at first)?

[Jamaaliver]

^There's A 50/50 CHANCE he's just tcorbin aka monsterblock aka fullcourt in disguise.

Talking all that tanking stuff again.

[Saintsteven]

Philly has the right idea, committed 100 percent to building through high draft picks and smart contracts and not sacrificing the future for years of mediocrity which will never amount to anything.
Sixers fans are completely behind the efforts of their new GM and front office, because they see the long term benefits and are tired of rooting for a team going no where.
Why can't Hawks fans get this perspective?
What has been so great about the recent treadmill years of the Hawks which at the pinnacle produced teams that made it to the second round and got completely embarrassed because they didn't belong?
You need superstars to win in this League, hell to at least get butts in the seats so your team isn't playing for a half filled arena every night!
Best way to get that is through the draft either picking a superstar outright, or acquiring assets to trade for one.
What about the current direction of the Hawks inspires confidence in any of you?

[parson]

There's A 50/50 CHANCE he's just tcorbin aka monsterblock aka fullcourt in disguise.

Talking all that tanking stuff again.

Well, he didn't deny it.

Philly has the right idea, committed 100 percent to building through high draft picks and smart contracts and not sacrificing the future for years of mediocrity which will never amount to anything.
Sixers fans are completely behind the efforts of their new GM and front office, because they see the long term benefits and are tired of rooting for a team going no where.
Why can't Hawks fans get this perspective?

Because it leads to poor play, which destroys the players you already have. Have you watched the pitiful thing the 6ers call basketball? All that talent and they've almost ruined them all. Only Young is respectable. How long before Michael Carter-Williams gets into bad habits? You either play to win or you destroy your talents on the club. Sure, you get good picks, but at the cost of most of the players you presently have.

What has been so great about the recent treadmill years of the Hawks which at the pinnacle produced teams that made it to the second round and got completely embarrassed because they didn't belong?

We were on the other treadmill earlier - the one YOU want - remember? We drafted Josh Smith, Josh Childress, Marvin Williams, Shelden Williams, Al Horford and Acie Law, IV. What you want us to do created that team, the one that "didn't belong."

You need superstars to win in this League, .... to at least get butts in the seats so your team isn't playing for a half filled arena every night! Best way to get that is through the draft either picking a superstar outright, or acquiring assets to trade for one.

We're acquiring those assets - at really good prices and with a low number of years to their contracts. HOU wanted Millsap for Asik but Millsap's improved too much. BOS wanted Carroll for Green but Carroll's improved too much. We have acquired trade assets.

What about the current direction of the Hawks inspires confidence in any of you?

We've become one of the better-performing teams in the NBA. Others are noticing that. We've been called the Spurs-East by some. Scouts are praising our player development. We have 3 talented, young PGs, 2 of whom we're probably going to use as trade assets. We have 2 allstar PFs. Maybe one can play SF or maybe we keep one at Center or maybe we trade one for needed assets. And I'm really impressed with our coaching. Certainly, they're a reason to be hopeful.

They're also part of the reason we can't tank: they've developed our players too well. Paul Millsap would not have emerged if we'd tanked. DeMarre Carroll would not have emerged if we'd tanked. Shelvin Mack would not have emerged if we'd tanked. Mike Scott would not have emerged if we'd tanked.

Look, we're soooooo injured that you may get your wish. At least try to understand the opinion that tanking is destructive.

[diesel50]

Philly has the right idea, committed 100 percent to building through high draft picks and smart contracts and not sacrificing the future for years of mediocrity which will never amount to anything.
Sixers fans are completely behind the efforts of their new GM and front office, because they see the long term benefits and are tired of rooting for a team going no where.
Why can't Hawks fans get this perspective?
What has been so great about the recent treadmill years of the Hawks which at the pinnacle produced teams that made it to the second round and got completely embarrassed because they didn't belong?
You need superstars to win in this League, hell to at least get butts in the seats so your team isn't playing for a half filled arena every night!
Best way to get that is through the draft either picking a superstar outright, or acquiring assets to trade for one.
What about the current direction of the Hawks inspires confidence in any of you?

I think the main difference is that Philly has drafted a superstar before. The Hawks have never drafted a superstar. Our fanbase doesn't know what it feels like to draft a player that keeps you in championship contention for almost a decade. I won't even talk about the older sixers... who won in 83. I will talk about Allen Iverson. As much as people hated Iverson, he kept the 76ers in the championship conversation and took them there one year. In our case, we had Nique, but we didn't Draft him, we traded for him. I think it's that thing that keeps us (at least our fanbase) from realizing the true power of being a top 3 pick.

The bad to what you say is what if the best are not there this draft? There are rumblings that Jabari Parker may not come out. Wiggins could be the return of Marvin Williams. It's a bad lottery draft pick that this fanbase is all too familiar with. Marvin Williams over CP3 is probably the biggest mistake in the history of this fanbase and we are now gunshy when it comes to winning through the draft.

[theatlfan]

I think the main difference is that Philly has drafted a superstar before. The Hawks have never drafted a superstar. Our fanbase doesn't know what it feels like to draft a player that keeps you in championship contention for almost a decade. I won't even talk about the older sixers... who won in 83. I will talk about Allen Iverson. As much as people hated Iverson, he kept the 76ers in the championship conversation and took them there one year. In our case, we had Nique, but we didn't Draft him, we traded for him. I think it's that thing that keeps us (at least our fanbase) from realizing the true power of being a top 3 pick.

The bad to what you say is what if the best are not there this draft? There are rumblings that Jabari Parker may not come out. Wiggins could be the return of Marvin Williams. It's a bad lottery draft pick that this fanbase is all too familiar with. Marvin Williams over CP3 is probably the biggest mistake in the history of this fanbase and we are now gunshy when it comes to winning through the draft.

One ? To put on the table: is the fan base "gunshy" to win through the draft or just on board with the current regime? There's no questioning that tanking is something that Ferry is avoiding right now. There's evidence that teams that avoid the cellar can churn out championship teams in the right circumstances. Some examples today would be IND and HOU - neither team has someone they drafted as a top 3 pick as a major contributor right now. Sure, there are teams who've tried the same and failed as there are teams who've done the tanking strategy and failed. No idea on the %-ages from either side in terms of success rate or the length of time to build the winner.

I also have to bring this up: the on court product of watching a team win is far more entertaining than the alternative. If I can watch a team trying to compete and believe there is a plan in place to win championships later, then I'm game to see if that can happen. WCS is that I'm happier now; BCS is I'm happier now and later.

[diesel50]

One ? To put on the table: is the fan base "gunshy" to win through the draft or just on board with the current regime? There's no questioning that tanking is something that Ferry is avoiding right now. There's evidence that teams that avoid the cellar can churn out championship teams in the right circumstances. Some examples today would be IND and HOU - neither team has someone they drafted as a top 3 pick as a major contributor right now. Sure, there are teams who've tried the same and failed as there are teams who've done the tanking strategy and failed. No idea on the %-ages from either side in terms of success rate or the length of time to build the winner.

I also have to bring this up: the on court product of watching a team win is far more entertaining than the alternative. If I can watch a team trying to compete and believe there is a plan in place to win championships later, then I'm game to see if that can happen. WCS is that I'm happier now; BCS is I'm happier now and later.

I just typed a book. But here goes... I do believe that some fans want to believe that Ferry is the rainmaker and he will make us into a contender just like he did with the Spurs.... The problem is that Ferry is not an archietecht. He's not a builder, he's a maintainer. He has done nothing that I didn't see Knight do. Just like Knight, Ferry got rid of the big contracts. Just like Knight, Ferry brought in some good short term contracts: Millsap, DMC, even Korver... Walker, Harrington, Sura. The thing is that BK was smart enough to realize that the only way to change the fortunes of the Hawks was to tank and get a high pick. Unfortunately, BK and his ideals was doing the picking. Honestly, BK couldn't pick in the draft well. IN the years that we were in the lottery, he picked: Childress over Iguodala. Marvin over CP3. Shelden over everybody behind him. Law over everybody behind him... That's 4 shots that could have turned the fortunes of the franchise in a great way. I think Knight got lucky with Joe Johnson and Horf... remember, Indy could have had him. The thing that should make the Hawks faithful cringe about Ferry is that he doesn't have the foresight to see that being in the lottery is where you need to be in order to change the fortunes of a team like Atlanta. I have heard the argument against and it starts with Indy... Who wasn't in the lottery much but they were there and Houston who is perhaps the luckiest team in the world. To that, I hold up OKC. I hold up Golden State. I hold up Chicago. I hold up Portland. You can Add Washington and Toronto too.
It should make you cringe to think that we are where we are and Ferry is giving the Sund line... "We like our guys". That's a maintainer talking. If you go into the GM's office... or the Hawks strategy room... or the Hawks draft war room.. I guarantee you won't find a plan or blueprint for what Ferry wants to do to make this team a winner. He's like a Babcockish figure that will know a good deal when it hits him.

[theatlfan]

I just typed a book. But here goes... I do believe that some fans want to believe that Ferry is the rainmaker and he will make us into a contender just like he did with the Spurs.... The problem is that Ferry is not an archietecht. He's not a builder, he's a maintainer. He has done nothing that I didn't see Knight do. Just like Knight, Ferry got rid of the big contracts. Just like Knight, Ferry brought in some good short term contracts: Millsap, DMC, even Korver... Walker, Harrington, Sura. The thing is that BK was smart enough to realize that the only way to change the fortunes of the Hawks was to tank and get a high pick. Unfortunately, BK and his ideals was doing the picking. Honestly, BK couldn't pick in the draft well. IN the years that we were in the lottery, he picked: Childress over Iguodala. Marvin over CP3. Shelden over everybody behind him. Law over everybody behind him... That's 4 shots that could have turned the fortunes of the franchise in a great way. I think Knight got lucky with Joe Johnson and Horf... remember, Indy could have had him. The thing that should make the Hawks faithful cringe about Ferry is that he doesn't have the foresight to see that being in the lottery is where you need to be in order to change the fortunes of a team like Atlanta. I have heard the argument against and it starts with Indy... Who wasn't in the lottery much but they were there and Houston who is perhaps the luckiest team in the world. To that, I hold up OKC. I hold up Golden State. I hold up Chicago. I hold up Portland. You can Add Washington and Toronto too.
It should make you cringe to think that we are where we are and Ferry is giving the Sund line... "We like our guys". That's a maintainer talking. If you go into the GM's office... or the Hawks strategy room... or the Hawks draft war room.. I guarantee you won't find a plan or blueprint for what Ferry wants to do to make this team a winner. He's like a Babcockish figure that will know a good deal when it hits him.

After reading this, all I can think is "Haters Gonna Hate!" Ferry has many quotes and actions out there showing that it is not his plan to "maintain", but instead, to build a team that can contend for championships. At this point, you've made the definition of a team tanking for picks so broad that we actually fit into the definition and we're the team with the longest current run of making the playoffs... so that means *every* team in the NBA fits the definition. If you chose to define the world around the supposition that someone isn't doing his job and not let anything to the contrary in, then yeah, your world would say just that.

Still, I'm not as much of a Ferry defender as someone who just doesn't think the time is right to judge him or his plan. He's the one with the GM title so it's his right to make and implement whatever plan he d@mn well pleases. If we want to change it, then we should chose a career path to deposit us in his chair. For me, I'm thinking he gets until the start of the '15-'16 season before I'll truly judge him. If we legitimately have either 1 superstar or 2 solid stars to build around, then that step of his plan is a success. IMO, there will be at least 3 guys who could fit that definition who have a better than average chance of switching teams this off-season; it also wouldn't surprise me if we have a guy under our control who steps out and earns the title. It's on Ferry to make these things happen and in my mind, he has 1.5 years to make it so.

[SBM]

I don't see any progress with this franchise we have taken a step back. The question is how long will they give Ferry.

[parson]

I don't see any progress with this franchise we have taken a step back. The question is how long will they give Ferry.

???

I have no idea what you're looking at to say that. This team is smarter, more professional and tougher than any Hawks team I've ever seen.

[SBM]

I don't see any progress with this franchise we have taken a step back. The question is how long will they give Ferry.

???

I have no idea what you're looking at to say that. This team is smarter, more professional and tougher than any Hawks team I've ever seen.

I disagree with every bit of what you just said. I don't see how anything they are doing is smarter, more professional, or tougher. I have seen other Hawks teams lose a bunch of games in a row also. I don't think a professional team would have lost that many games in a row. I don't think a truly tough team would have taken that long to get out of a slump.

We don't have a large number of cap space, draft picks, or young players with potential. We are not arguably the right piece away from the ECFinals like we were when we had Bibby/Teague,Joe,Marvin, Josh, Al, and Jamal. Fewer people are reportedly paying for seats.

There is nothing there in real improvement, just a bunch of blind Ferry love

[diesel50]

After reading this, all I can think is "Haters Gonna Hate!" Ferry has many quotes and actions out there showing that it is not his plan to "maintain", but instead, to build a team that can contend for championships. At this point, you've made the definition of a team tanking for picks so broad that we actually fit into the definition and we're the team with the longest current run of making the playoffs... so that means *every* team in the NBA fits the definition. If you chose to define the world around the supposition that someone isn't doing his job and not let anything to the contrary in, then yeah, your world would say just that.

Still, I'm not as much of a Ferry defender as someone who just doesn't think the time is right to judge him or his plan. He's the one with the GM title so it's his right to make and implement whatever plan he d@mn well pleases. If we want to change it, then we should chose a career path to deposit us in his chair. For me, I'm thinking he gets until the start of the '15-'16 season before I'll truly judge him. If we legitimately have either 1 superstar or 2 solid stars to build around, then that step of his plan is a success. IMO, there will be at least 3 guys who could fit that definition who have a better than average chance of switching teams this off-season; it also wouldn't surprise me if we have a guy under our control who steps out and earns the title. It's on Ferry to make these things happen and in my mind, he has 1.5 years to make it so.

Lemme just ask... What is the future for the Hawks? Where is it?
Because Danny sucks at drafting, we don't have anybody who is ready to step up and be the future of the Hawks. Ferry Lovers will point to Dennis.. but there's a reason why Dennis is sitting behind Shelvin Mack and Lou Williams. Don't blame the messenger, just look at the MPG played when we knew Teague was out. Many say Bebe... and I am glad we have a big... but why did we stick him back in Spain? NBADL would have been tons better for both of these guys.
Where is the future?

[Rip2137]

I don't see any progress with this franchise we have taken a step back. The question is how long will they give Ferry.

???

I have no idea what you're looking at to say that. This team is smarter, more professional and tougher than any Hawks team I've ever seen.

I disagree with every bit of what you just said. I don't see how anything they are doing is smarter, more professional, or tougher. I have seen other Hawks teams lose a bunch of games in a row also. I don't think a professional team would have lost that many games in a row. I don't think a truly tough team would have taken that long to get out of a slump.

We don't have a large number of cap space, draft picks, or young players with potential. We are not arguably the right piece away from the ECFinals like we were when we had Bibby/Teague,Joe,Marvin, Josh, Al, and Jamal. Fewer people are reportedly paying for seats.

There is nothing there in real improvement, just a bunch of blind Ferry love

So, injuries don't matter, huh? So we are down to one Center on the roster, injuries at the point, 2 guard, power forward and center during this losing streak(that's 4-5 positions if you aren't counting) and we didn't win because of "toughness"? Seriously?

4 out of the 5 starters and two backups have not been available at points during the streak...yeah...its because we suck that we lost some of those close games.

I am interested how we were "the right piece" away from the ECFinals when Woodson was coaching when we were losing in HISTORIC fashion. This team is better. People that don't see that just don't want to see it.

[Rip2137]

Oh Jeff Teague, Mike Scott, Dennis Schroder, Sheldon Mack, Bebe...there you go. I just listed 5 young players with potential. The only reason I am leaving off Jenkins is because the uncertainty of his back.

[PandaKidd]

Why do you say "danny sucks at drafting"? Because the ONLY draft we can really grade him on was the WEAKEST DRAFT IN 20 years.............

I mean we havent even seen Muscala or Bebe play yet, Schroeder we knew was a reach and was raw and young. Jury still out on him.

But I dont think you can say that he sucks with conviction. This year will be his test when he has real draft picks in a stacked draft class.

the top 5 picks in last years draft werent FRANCHISE PLAYERS. The only REAL Frahcnise player 2 years ago was Anthony Davis.........

Bebe was a stash, he has to develop more , and some guys DONT WANT to play in the D League. They get paid more overseas. If BEBE was NBA D LEAGUE ready, he would be there.

I think this Hawks team is doing great with DEVASTATING INJURIES. They have heart, they fight, they play like a team. Next year with AH back and with proper FA signings/draft, we should be in GREAT shape.

Quit overreacting

[PandaKidd]

Mike Scott may be the best we have drafted, Ive always loved his game. hes a very smart player.

[Jamaaliver]

Oh Jeff Teague, Mike Scott, Dennis Schroder, Sheldon Mack, Bebe...there you go. I just listed 5 young players with potential.

This team is better.

While I agree with pretty much nothing diesel says anymore...

I don't see how anyone could say Mack, Dennis and Bebe are better players than Josh, AL, Joe Johnson and Marvin. Not to mention J- Crawford, Kirk Hinrich and Zaza. Those teams had much worse coaching than we have now. But were much more successful than anything Ferry has seen. They even survived their own season-ending injury to AL because they had a real backup Center, an All Star as leading scorer and the talented, multi-faceted, fantastic, unparalleled Smoove to do heavy lifting and close out tight games.

This team just suffered the longest losing streak in 8 years. Injuries can't explain away everything, because we once had to make due with out JJ and Horford for weeks, too. But managed to at least stay above .500.

We're extraordinarily well coached, but in terms of talent...we're just ordinary.