Has Wiggins been compared to Cory Brewer?

[Big_C_KU]

Wiggins with a tremendous game tonight. Along with Embiid, he dominated the game on both ends of the court. His jump shot has really improved as the season has gone along. It's much more consistent and compact and he's landing in the same spot almost every shot. Most noticeably though the last 2 games he's going hard at the rim. Twice tonight he used something he hasn't used as much as he should, the jump-step. Both times he finished at the rim because he was much more under control. I hope to see him continue to utilize it more when he drives.

[noobcake]

I'd say this is a worrying video if you're a Wiggins fan.

Just doesn't show that elite athleticism when he's near the rim here. Not very aggressive or explosive, rarely stays on balance after contact, never finishes strong in traffic.

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4ISjeKIuumE[/youtube]

Some snippets from the article (linked in the video description):

The biggest wart preventing Wiggins from being a useful half-court scorer is his poor finishing ability. I compiled all of his rim attempts and a few short jumpers from 6 conference games (Iowa St x2, Baylor x2, @Texas, vs Oklahoma State). In sum he shot 41.4% from 2 in these games and averaged 14.5 pts, and he is averaging 42.4% from 2 and 16.4 ppg in conference play, so I think it’s a fair selection even if not the most flattering:

There’s no way around it: Andrew Wiggins has horrific touch around the rim and is completely inept at finishing in traffic. In 10 games against teams that are top 130 in both defense and block %, Wiggins is shooting just 22/72 (30.6%) from inside the arc. There’s likely bad variance on long 2′s in that sample, but the fact remains that it’s hard to find footage of him finishing over trees.

Again his half-court scoring splits look poor in comparison to those of his peers. This highlights why PJ Hairston is absolutely a lottery talent, as he is an elite weapon in the half-court with his endless barrage of high % 3′s. Again Jabari completely outclasses Wiggins on both volume and efficiency. Even Aaron Gordon scores with greater volume and efficiency in the half-court in spite of having a completely broken shot. Gary Harris is nearly as inefficient at 45.1%, but that seems in part due to fluke as he had a 53% half-court eFG as a freshman.

I also included transition stats to show that while I am weeding out a strength of Wiggins’ game, he isn’t a uniquely good transition scorer. He is among the best in this sample, but he doesn’t blow everybody away because he still struggles to finish when he doesn’t beat the entire defense down the court.

It is hard to say whether there have been any past examples of such poor half-court scorers who developed into stars, because nobody tracks these splits prior to 2011-2012. But this all stems from Wiggins’ inability to get to the rim and finish. He has converted a grand total of 30/58 (51.8%) half-court rim FG’s in 24 games. He has done a solid job of drawing free throws, but until he adds weight and becomes a respectable finisher, he will likely have a tough time fully translating this to the NBA.

Currently he has several problems, and none of them can be addressed independently of the others:

1) He does not have advanced ball handling skills to get to the hoop at will
2) He does not have the touch to finish contested shots in traffic
3) He doesn’t atone for his lack of touch by using his athleticism to dunk over everybody

He has issues with both creating and finishing, and he will need to address them simultaneously. If does make a stellar improvement skill-wise and add bulk to his frame, his tools will enable him to be a weapon in the half-court. Skills can be learned, tools cannot. But when he is starting so incredibly far behind his peers, is it realistic to project such drastic growth such that he is able to become a good attacker in the half-court against NBA defenses? It would be swell if it did happen, but it seems like a long shot to me. The best argument for his upside is that a sharp coach finds a way to unlock some hidden upside unseen by this analysis, but again this is not safe to bank on.

Realistically, I would expect Wiggins to continue to provide value in the areas where he currently does. The Thaddeus Young mold of 3′s, defense, and transition suits him well. Also he could contribute in other ways playing off the ball, such as finishing lobs and scoring on cuts and putbacks. A slightly toolsier Thad Young is a happy return on a pick in the middle of the lottery. But in the top 3, it is insane to take him on the outside shot that he mimics Paul George’s otherworldly development curve and becomes a two way superstar. It’s more likely that he becomes Marvin Williams (or worse) than Paul George (or better). Wiggins still has time to improve his stock, but at this stage I believe he belongs in the 4-9 range and I suspect that he will not be in the top 5 of my final big board. It is time to update the narrative that he is a rare prospect. Andrew Wiggins has rare tools but his skill level and employment of his tools are alarmingly worse than advertised.

rest of article here

Don't post advanced stats, or any stats for that matter. They are not Wiggins' friend.

Repeat after me, athleticism, potential, potential, potential, athleticism, potential, potential, potential. Got it?

[Talent Chaser]

I'd say this is a worrying video if you're a Wiggins fan.

Just doesn't show that elite athleticism when he's near the rim here. Not very aggressive or explosive, rarely stays on balance after contact, never finishes strong in traffic.

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4ISjeKIuumE[/youtube]

Some snippets from the article (linked in the video description):

The biggest wart preventing Wiggins from being a useful half-court scorer is his poor finishing ability. I compiled all of his rim attempts and a few short jumpers from 6 conference games (Iowa St x2, Baylor x2, @Texas, vs Oklahoma State). In sum he shot 41.4% from 2 in these games and averaged 14.5 pts, and he is averaging 42.4% from 2 and 16.4 ppg in conference play, so I think it’s a fair selection even if not the most flattering:

There’s no way around it: Andrew Wiggins has horrific touch around the rim and is completely inept at finishing in traffic. In 10 games against teams that are top 130 in both defense and block %, Wiggins is shooting just 22/72 (30.6%) from inside the arc. There’s likely bad variance on long 2′s in that sample, but the fact remains that it’s hard to find footage of him finishing over trees.

Again his half-court scoring splits look poor in comparison to those of his peers. This highlights why PJ Hairston is absolutely a lottery talent, as he is an elite weapon in the half-court with his endless barrage of high % 3′s. Again Jabari completely outclasses Wiggins on both volume and efficiency. Even Aaron Gordon scores with greater volume and efficiency in the half-court in spite of having a completely broken shot. Gary Harris is nearly as inefficient at 45.1%, but that seems in part due to fluke as he had a 53% half-court eFG as a freshman.

I also included transition stats to show that while I am weeding out a strength of Wiggins’ game, he isn’t a uniquely good transition scorer. He is among the best in this sample, but he doesn’t blow everybody away because he still struggles to finish when he doesn’t beat the entire defense down the court.

It is hard to say whether there have been any past examples of such poor half-court scorers who developed into stars, because nobody tracks these splits prior to 2011-2012. But this all stems from Wiggins’ inability to get to the rim and finish. He has converted a grand total of 30/58 (51.8%) half-court rim FG’s in 24 games. He has done a solid job of drawing free throws, but until he adds weight and becomes a respectable finisher, he will likely have a tough time fully translating this to the NBA.

Currently he has several problems, and none of them can be addressed independently of the others:

1) He does not have advanced ball handling skills to get to the hoop at will
2) He does not have the touch to finish contested shots in traffic
3) He doesn’t atone for his lack of touch by using his athleticism to dunk over everybody

He has issues with both creating and finishing, and he will need to address them simultaneously. If does make a stellar improvement skill-wise and add bulk to his frame, his tools will enable him to be a weapon in the half-court. Skills can be learned, tools cannot. But when he is starting so incredibly far behind his peers, is it realistic to project such drastic growth such that he is able to become a good attacker in the half-court against NBA defenses? It would be swell if it did happen, but it seems like a long shot to me. The best argument for his upside is that a sharp coach finds a way to unlock some hidden upside unseen by this analysis, but again this is not safe to bank on.

Realistically, I would expect Wiggins to continue to provide value in the areas where he currently does. The Thaddeus Young mold of 3′s, defense, and transition suits him well. Also he could contribute in other ways playing off the ball, such as finishing lobs and scoring on cuts and putbacks. A slightly toolsier Thad Young is a happy return on a pick in the middle of the lottery. But in the top 3, it is insane to take him on the outside shot that he mimics Paul George’s otherworldly development curve and becomes a two way superstar. It’s more likely that he becomes Marvin Williams (or worse) than Paul George (or better). Wiggins still has time to improve his stock, but at this stage I believe he belongs in the 4-9 range and I suspect that he will not be in the top 5 of my final big board. It is time to update the narrative that he is a rare prospect. Andrew Wiggins has rare tools but his skill level and employment of his tools are alarmingly worse than advertised.

rest of article here

Don't post advanced stats, or any stats for that matter. They are not Wiggins' friend.

Repeat after me, athleticism, potential, potential, potential, athleticism, potential, potential, potential. Got it?

Conf. play:
Parker 17.1 PPG 52.6 TS% 31.1 3PT 0.7 AST 2.4 TO 108.9 ORtg
Wiggins 16.9 PPG 57.1 TS% 40.0 3PT 1.9 AST 2.2 TO 118.9 ORtg



You act like Wiggins can't shoot and is a finished product

[noobcake]

Some snippets from the article (linked in the video description):





rest of article here

Don't post advanced stats, or any stats for that matter. They are not Wiggins' friend.

Repeat after me, athleticism, potential, potential, potential, athleticism, potential, potential, potential. Got it?

Conf. play:
Parker 17.1 PPG 52.6 TS% 31.1 3PT 0.7 AST 2.4 TO 108.9 ORtg
Wiggins 16.9 PPG 57.1 TS% 40.0 3PT 1.9 AST 2.2 TO 118.9 ORtg



You act like Wiggins can't shoot and is a finished product

Way to conveniently leave out worse defense rating, worse rebounding rate, worse block rate, worse turnover rate, worse steal rate.

I'm done posting in Wiggins threads. Going to come back bumping this in a year or two.

Pathetic finished product line of reasoning

Hint hint: Parker is younger than Wiggins.

[Nazrmohamed]

I have been calling Wiggins a more athletic Corey Brewer and getting bashed every time.

Off-ball slasher with questionable handles and mediocre shooting.

Wiggins supporters even take offense when you call Wiggins a more athletic Rudy. They want either a Paul George or young Kobe comparison, except he plays nothing like either player. His closest NBA play style match is Corey Brewer.

Actually Rudy Gay is a great comparison.

[strudel forever]

Don't post advanced stats, or any stats for that matter. They are not Wiggins' friend.

Repeat after me, athleticism, potential, potential, potential, athleticism, potential, potential, potential. Got it?

Conf. play:
Parker 17.1 PPG 52.6 TS% 31.1 3PT 0.7 AST 2.4 TO 108.9 ORtg
Wiggins 16.9 PPG 57.1 TS% 40.0 3PT 1.9 AST 2.2 TO 118.9 ORtg



You act like Wiggins can't shoot and is a finished product

Way to conveniently leave out worse defense rating, worse rebounding rate, worse block rate, worse turnover rate, worse steal rate.

I'm done posting in Wiggins threads. Going to come back bumping this in a year or two.

Pathetic finished product line of reasoning

Hint hint: Parker is younger than Wiggins.

Defensive rating only takes into consideration boxscore stats like steals and blocks and is next to worthless. It's obvious that Wiggins is clearly a far superior defender than Parker if you've bothered to watch either of them.

[Dr Positivity]

Wiggins is a great athlete but not a transcendent one. IMO players more athletic for their position lately include Drummond, Wall, Noel, Griffin. Not sold much at all that he's more athletically special for his position than Gordon

[crazy_me_87]

strange..

he is playing significantly better for 10+ games now and he gets critisized even more?? o.O

i dont get it at all

i said it over and over again

yes he has his flaws.. but his flaws are mostly correctable with work and time..

his finishing will improve with repetition and strengh training.. his ballhandling already greatly improved in Season!!... his shot is underrated...

and this whole agression/passive thing.. should be quieted at least for now.. hes really agressive as of late.. what do you want him to do?? ignore Coach and take 25 shots a game?

and defense side... Parker vs Wiggins... guys.. just watch them.. not just box scores... Wiggins already totaly shuts down his opponents for spurts .. while Parker just has been a better defender at college level than advertised...

is Parker the slightly better College player right now ? yeah probably.. does that change their outlook for the NBA? no.. NBA is a different beast..

Wiggins remains an amazing prospect


and to all who think its "cool" to bet against Wiggins and bet on the "underdog" Parker... check your memories... Parker was hyped as the next Grant Hill a half year before anybody even heard of Wiggins...

[Tave]

It's also interesting that shooting was the biggest knock on Wiggins entering the season, and while he hasn't been elite, the rapid improvement in both his FT shooting and his range have quieted most of that concern. He contributes in a lot of ways to Kansas, but I don't think ANYONE expected him to be able to spot-up from range and produce at a winning rate.

The most intriguing thing about Wiggins as a prospect beyond his raw physical talent was the speed at which he began adding parts to his game. People seem to forget that the boy came out of nowhere and within 2 years cemented himself as a top pick based in large part on his frightening growth-curve.

I wonder what people will say about him if he starts to add a lot of ball handling (looking better at that every game) and/or fills out and begins to attack the rim. His body control (elite) and left hand look (good) seem to be up to the task, I have a feeling it's just a matter of time. Of course ultimately it's up to him how much he wants and is willing to work for it.

[TheYesGuy]

This thread is ridiculous. Did someone actually claim that Parker is a better defender than Wiggins? No one who has watched either play could possibly come to that conclusion. 4-9 on the draft board? I see no chance he falls out of the top 3.

[gags1288]

I just wish Wiggins was a + player at something on the offensive end at this point. Instead he's just ok at everything, including finishing where he really should excel with his athleticism. He's going in the top 3 because his upside is enormous, but he's far from the sure thing he was billed as at the beginning of the season.

[reignfire]

At least wiggins has a position in the NBA. He can play 2 or 3. Parker is looking like a tweener. Hard to see him being able to guard 3s.

[EricAnderson]

His 3 point shot keeps improving which im not surprised by becasue he has a nice form on his shot it was never broken..my one concern is he still has trouble finishing at the rim..

Also while he has a sick second jump and has gotten his own rebound a few times hes not nearly the athlete hes was billed to be or looked like on video from hs

[Big_C_KU]

His 3 point shot keeps improving which im not surprised by becasue he has a nice form on his shot it was never broken..my one concern is he still has trouble finishing at the rim..

Also while he has a sick second jump and has gotten his own rebound a few times hes not nearly the athlete hes was billed to be or looked like on video from hs

He's doesn't jump as high in game as he's capable of. He doesn't explode like he should and doesn't hang in the air like he's capable of. Not as much him not being as athletic but more along the lines of not using it like he should. Watch the alley-oop from the Texas game and jumping off of 2 feet he got his chest above the rim. He has the ability to but he doesn't use it as well as he should. If he uses two feet when he drives to explode over the defender he'll absorb contact better and finish better. I hope it's something he improves upon quickly.

[TheYesGuy]

I just wish Wiggins was a + player at something on the offensive end at this point. Instead he's just ok at everything, including finishing where he really should excel with his athleticism. He's going in the top 3 because his upside is enormous, but he's far from the sure thing he was billed as at the beginning of the season.

He's absolutely a plus player at driving and drawing contact, something which will only benefit him more at the NBA level. He averages more free throw attempts a game than Parker while playing more on the perimeter. And I've actually watched 80% of Kansas' games this season (unlike most people in this thread I'm guessing), and the majority of those foul calls are in the half court, not in transition. That's despite the fact that Kansas runs a two post offense with very weak spacing for the drive.

[gags1288]

[quote="TheYesGuy"][quote="gags1288"]I just wish Wiggins was a + player at something on the offensive end at this point. Instead he's just ok at everything, including finishing where he really should excel with his athleticism. He's going in the top 3 because his upside is enormous, but he's far from the sure thing he was billed as at the beginning of the season.[/quote]

He's absolutely a plus player at driving and drawing contact, something which will only benefit him more at the NBA level. He averages more free throw attempts a game than Parker while playing more on the perimeter. And I've actually watched 80% of Kansas' games this season (unlike most people in this thread I'm guessing), and the majority of those foul calls are in the half court, not in transition. That's despite the fact that Kansas runs a two post offense with very weak spacing for the drive.[/quote]

Parker actually draws fouls at a higher rate (6.1/40 vs. 5.7/40), but I would agree that drawing fouls is currently one of his relative strengths.

[TheYesGuy]

Any idea how that would look adjusted for usage? I remember seeing some weeks old stats that had Parker at a much higher usage rate which would obviously lend itself to more shot attempts and fouls.

[165bows]

Any idea how that would look adjusted for usage? I remember seeing some weeks old stats that had Parker at a much higher usage rate which would obviously lend itself to more shot attempts and fouls.

Wiggins has a higher rate of FT/FGA, which I think is what you are saying basically. As of now:
Wiggins: 0.55
Parker: 0.43

http://www.draftexpress.com/profile/And ... 191/stats/
http://www.draftexpress.com/profile/Jab ... 299/stats/

I am concerned with Wiggins' half court scoring ability, though. I don't have them in front of me but he's struggled with his efficiency in the half court so far, which has been sort of the knock on him, general ball-handling, creating etc.

[Goldbum]

Wiggins reminds me of MKG. He's probably going to be a better pro do to a superior feel for the game and slightly more agility, but I see a lot of MKG in his game.

[EricAnderson]

Wiggins reminds me of MKG. He's probably going to be a better pro do to a superior feel for the game and slightly more agility, but I see a lot of MKG in his game.

His jumper is already much better,MKG's shot is broke