2013-14 MVP Discussion Thread Pt II

[MitchellUK]

Durant isn't a better player than LeBron just like LeBron wasn't a better player than Kobe until 2012.

Great bait, mate.

[nyk_buc]

Sure, I'm not claiming that his January stretch was KD's true level of play. That would make him GOAT by a mile.

What I'm saying is: Lebron at his best is no better than KD at his best.

So if you think Lebron is still obviously the best player in the league, you must've come to that conclusion based on their sustained levels of play. But if you look at this entire season, Durant is as good as Lebron's ever been. (Durant's averages this season (30.7 PER, .314 WS/48) compare favorably to anything Lebron's ever done.)

In fact, if you look at the last two seasons as one block of time, Durant's been almost as good over that period as Lebron has been. And Lebron had a GOAT season last year.

So how on Earth is it obvious that Lebron's the best player in the league?

Uh... How about Lebron's stretch now in February and he just OBLITERATED Durant in a 1-on-1 matchup?

Or last February when Lebron put up 30/8/8 on freaking 64% shooting?

Or the playoff run 2 years ago when he put up 30/10/5 on 50% and winning the 'chip?

Or in 09/10 February where Lebron put up 33/7/11 on 50% shooting?

Or the playoff run in 09/10 where Lebron put up 35/9/7 on 51%?

You seriously have short term memory if you don't think Lebron has lived in that stratosphere for many months that Durant was in.

Lebron has been doing this for YEARS, and winning MVPs in those years, and challenging for DPOY past 2 years, and winning rings last 2 years.

Are you even serious why we think Durant is nowhere near Lebron? One month or one season won't change people's minds. You gotta do this for a few seasons at least.

The same way you have to do it for a few seasons before you're a true superstar... ala Paul GEorge.

And let's be real. Durant truly outplayed Lebron ONE season this year. January. Prior to that, everyone still has Lebron as the MVP leader prior to January. And now Lebron is gearing things up. Let's see who ends better before we even start putting Durant in the same conversation as the best player.

I love the challenge Durant is posing to Lebron. But Lebron is in his prime. He's not going to lose his best player status until someone outplays him for a FULL season every single month. And that isn't going to happen for another 2-3 years.

[MisterHibachi]

What I'm saying is: Lebron at his best is no better than KD at his best.

Clearly you don't pay attention on the defensive side. LeBron at his defensive best is a legitimate DPOY candidate. KD is no where near that, improved tho he is.

[deneem4]

Lebron is in his prime playing with seasoned vets and future hall of famers.
KD is still developing playing with developing prospects and his alter ego point guard.

Lebron's been the best because he joined the best...He joined the best all around sg in the league...and he joined the best pf in the east...now he has the best 3pt shooter in nba history and group of perfect fitting veteran role players

The heat didn't develop into champions they were brought together

kd is having to develop the Thunder in a championship team...He's their leader and he's only 25?? His right hand wants to be #1 and other than ibaka every one else on the team is too young and inconsistent...Lebron is in the perfect setting to be the best player in the league...KD is not...

that's the difference.

[MisterHibachi]

Lebron is in his prime playing with seasoned vets and future hall of famers.
KD is still developing playing with developing prospects and his alter ego point guard.

Lebron's been the best because he joined the best...He joined the best all around sg in the league...and he joined the best pf in the east...now he has the best 3pt shooter in nba history and group of perfect fitting veteran role players

The heat didn't develop into champions they were brought together

kd is having to develop the Thunder in a championship team...He's their leader and he's only 25?? His right hand wants to be #1 and other than ibaka every one else on the team is too young and inconsistent...Lebron is in the perfect setting to be the best player in the league...KD is not...

that's the difference.

So you admit LeBron is the best. Good.

[mawan041]

Lebron is in his prime playing with seasoned vets and future hall of famers.
KD is still developing playing with developing prospects and his alter ego point guard.

Lebron's been the best because he joined the best...He joined the best all around sg in the league...and he joined the best pf in the east...now he has the best 3pt shooter in nba history and group of perfect fitting veteran role players

The heat didn't develop into champions they were brought together

kd is having to develop the Thunder in a championship team...He's their leader and he's only 25?? His right hand wants to be #1 and other than ibaka every one else on the team is too young and inconsistent...Lebron is in the perfect setting to be the best player in the league...KD is not...

that's the difference.

Do you like spewing out nonsense to make yourself feel good ?

For god's sake what is it with you Lebron/Heat Haters ? You guys all have the same "manifesto". "Lebron
joined the best", blah blah blah.

You guys already know what the truth is, stop being obsessed with the NAMES of the players. This is not the same D. Wade or Chris Bosh prior to 2010. Injuries (D. Wade) and the role (C. Bosh) have definitely diminished their standing.

I'm not saying they are bad players but they are NOT the superstars people pretend them to be.

Chis Bosh in Toronto had a grand total of ZERO playoff pushes past the first round. How many times in his career in Toronot did he even make the playoffs ? Considering the east has been "weak", that is rather pitiful for the "best power forward".

Ray Allen is nothing but a shell of himself, his consistent struggles only cement that fact. Him hitting a couple of shots does not change the fact that he has struggled plenty with his shot. This is not a "prime" Ray Allen.
That's like people saying that Lebron played with a Hall of Famer in Shaq during his final year in Cleveland. That is as dumb as a statement that can be made, Shaq was WELL PAST his prime when he played with Lebron.
If you want to ignore the facts and simply look at the "NAME", then you can continue to make your absurd arguments.

Don't expect objective people to take you seriously though.


Most important of all though, forget about the Miami Heat. Lebron was the best player when he was in Cleveland also where the second best player he played with was Mo Freaking Williams.

It's not like Lebron became the best player after he came to Miami. The fact that you don't accept this shows your biased agenda.

On Topic:
A number of people here have admitted that KD is leading the MVP race. Lebron with his play is certainly making the race close again, but most people still have KD as the favorite to win it.

[G-Heel]

KD deserves it so far for sure

[rcontador]

Uh... How about Lebron's stretch now in February and he just OBLITERATED Durant in a 1-on-1 matchup?

Or last February when Lebron put up 30/8/8 on freaking 64% shooting?

Or the playoff run 2 years ago when he put up 30/10/5 on 50% and winning the 'chip?

Or in 09/10 February where Lebron put up 33/7/11 on 50% shooting?

Or the playoff run in 09/10 where Lebron put up 35/9/7 on 51%?

You seriously have short term memory if you don't think Lebron has lived in that stratosphere for many months that Durant was in.

I know that Lebron has had amazing stretches of his own, when have I said otherwise? Did you even read my post?

Lebron has been doing this for YEARS, and winning MVPs in those years, and challenging for DPOY past 2 years, and winning rings last 2 years.

Are you even serious why we think Durant is nowhere near Lebron? One month or one season won't change people's minds. You gotta do this for a few seasons at least.

Durant has now had two all-time great seasons in a row. That's not a blip.

And I'm not comparing their careers. I don't care that Lebron's done it for five seasons. I'm saying, right now, Durant has a case for best player in the league.

Imagine their careers were reversed -- that Durant were 29, putting up his 4th GOAT level season in a row, and Lebron were in the middle of his 2009 season. It would be very reasonable, at that point, to say that Lebron was making a case that he was the best player in the league. I don't think we would have to wait for two more years to have that conversation.

Same for Durant right now.

[ThePersianFreak]

Uh... How about Lebron's stretch now in February and he just OBLITERATED Durant in a 1-on-1 matchup?

Or last February when Lebron put up 30/8/8 on freaking 64% shooting?

Or the playoff run 2 years ago when he put up 30/10/5 on 50% and winning the 'chip?

Or in 09/10 February where Lebron put up 33/7/11 on 50% shooting?

Or the playoff run in 09/10 where Lebron put up 35/9/7 on 51%?

You seriously have short term memory if you don't think Lebron has lived in that stratosphere for many months that Durant was in.

I know that Lebron has had amazing stretches of his own, when have I said otherwise? Did you even read my post?

Lebron has been doing this for YEARS, and winning MVPs in those years, and challenging for DPOY past 2 years, and winning rings last 2 years.

Are you even serious why we think Durant is nowhere near Lebron? One month or one season won't change people's minds. You gotta do this for a few seasons at least.

Durant has now had two all-time great seasons in a row. That's not a blip.

And I'm not comparing their careers. I don't care that Lebron's done it for five seasons. I'm saying, right now, Durant has a case for best player in the league.

Imagine their careers were reversed -- that Durant were 29, putting up his 4th GOAT level season in a row, and Lebron were in the middle of his 2009 season. It would be very reasonable, at that point, to say that Lebron was making a case that he was the best player in the league. I don't think we would have to wait for two more years to have that conversation.

Same for Durant right now.

What do you want people to say? that KD is better than LeBron while he is'nt?!

[James Rustles]

The only reason LeBron is even a DPOY candidate is media hype combined with him begging for the award at times.

He has statistically been nothing more than an average at best defender this season. Last year in the playoffs and regular season he also had a lot of moments where he was a liability on that end of the floor.

[deneem4]

Lebron is in his prime playing with seasoned vets and future hall of famers.
KD is still developing playing with developing prospects and his alter ego point guard.

Lebron's been the best because he joined the best...He joined the best all around sg in the league...and he joined the best pf in the east...now he has the best 3pt shooter in nba history and group of perfect fitting veteran role players

The heat didn't develop into champions they were brought together

kd is having to develop the Thunder in a championship team...He's their leader and he's only 25?? His right hand wants to be #1 and other than ibaka every one else on the team is too young and inconsistent...Lebron is in the perfect setting to be the best player in the league...KD is not...

that's the difference.

Do you like spewing out nonsense to make yourself feel good ?

For god's sake what is it with you Lebron/Heat Haters ? You guys all have the same "manifesto". "Lebron
joined the best", blah blah blah.

You guys already know what the truth is, stop being obsessed with the NAMES of the players. This is not the same D. Wade or Chris Bosh prior to 2010. Injuries (D. Wade) and the role (C. Bosh) have definitely diminished their standing.

I'm not saying they are bad players but they are NOT the superstars people pretend them to be.

Chis Bosh in Toronto had a grand total of ZERO playoff pushes past the first round. How many times in his career in Toronot did he even make the playoffs ? Considering the east has been "weak", that is rather pitiful for the "best power forward".

Ray Allen is nothing but a shell of himself, his consistent struggles only cement that fact. Him hitting a couple of shots does not change the fact that he has struggled plenty with his shot. This is not a "prime" Ray Allen.
That's like people saying that Lebron played with a Hall of Famer in Shaq during his final year in Cleveland. That is as dumb as a statement that can be made, Shaq was WELL PAST his prime when he played with Lebron.
If you want to ignore the facts and simply look at the "NAME", then you can continue to make your absurd arguments.

Don't expect objective people to take you seriously though.


Most important of all though, forget about the Miami Heat. Lebron was the best player when he was in Cleveland also where the second best player he played with was Mo Freaking Williams.

It's not like Lebron became the best player after he came to Miami. The fact that you don't accept this shows your biased agenda.

On Topic:
A number of people here have admitted that KD is leading the MVP race. Lebron with his play is certainly making the race close again, but most people still have KD as the favorite to win it.

Are you serious????

wade plays 50% most of the season to conserve himself...did u not see how he played against the Thunder the last game..wade can turn it on and off because he has lebron...

bosh role has diminished because he's not a top option anymore...but he can turn it up at will as well...they can come through when lebron can't

HOW MANY GAME WINNING THREES HAVE RAY ALLEN HIT IN THE CLUTCH FOR THE HEAT???

The presence of bosh wade and allen makes things easier for lebron...wade comes through every time in the playoffs when lebron is off...same with bosh

the fact that you can down a top player like wade to make lebron seem soo much better is dumb...

Old or not wade is still a top 3 guard (kobe, harden, wade) he's far from a shell and can easily average 25,5,5...

Lebron is better than durant because of age and setting...He's in his prime and is playing with the best team in the nba..even without lebron the heat would be a top 3 seed...

and kobe was the best player in the nba while lebron was in cleveland...

KD will eclipse lebron it happening this season and will be on full display next season..

[deneem4]

Oh and how many times has Kevin love had a playoff push??
Or better yet lamarcus Aldridge who's a year younger than bosh and is currently the best power forward in the nba?
Lol...u lebron stans not putting variables in perspective

[xBulletproof]

even without lebron the heat would be a top 3 seed...

Maybe. And that's only a maybe because the East is terrible. In the West without Lebron I doubt they make the playoffs.

Durant so far certainly deserves the MVP, but if it's a playoff game 7 and I have to play that game against either of the 2 I'm picking Durant. I fear a locked in on both ends "back against the wall" Lebron more than anyone in the game today.

[mawan041]

Are you serious????

wade plays 50% most of the season to conserve himself...did u not see how he played against the Thunder the last game..wade can turn it on and off because he has lebron

So, one game defines how Great D. Wade is ? How about the 4 game stretch he had just a couple of weeks ago when he could barely score 10 points ?

Let me be clear, I am NOT saying Wade is a bad player. He is NOT a Superstar though, unless your definition of a superstar is a guy who can miss more than 20 games in season and play INCONSISTENTLY throughout the season. There are some hits and some misses. Sorry but that is not the definition of a Superstar to me.

bosh role has diminished because he's not a top option anymore...but he can turn it up at will as well...they can come through when lebron can't

HOW MANY GAME WINNING THREES HAVE RAY ALLEN HIT IN THE CLUTCH FOR THE HEAT???

The presence of bosh wade and allen makes things easier for lebron...wade comes through every time in the playoffs when lebron is off...same with bosh

I agree the Bosh's role in the offense has diminished his own personal game in terms of numbers. I STRONGLY disagree that he can turn it up "at will". You are making yourself looking foolish here.

Where was Bosh's "will" to turn it up in the Indiana Series ? Where was his "Will" in the most important game of his career, Game 7 vs. the Spurs in the finals when he scored a GRAND TOTAL of ZERO POINTS ??

Yup that's the guy that can "turn it up at will".

The same exact applies to D. Wade. Did you even watch last year's playoff run ? Did you see how bad D. Wade was leading into the finals ? His series against the pacers was simply pitiful, Where was his "will" to turn it on ?

I give him CREDIT for his Game 7 against the Pacers and Games 4 and 7 against the Spurs. I will NOT take that credit away from him.

However, the entire argument goes back to my original premise. These guys showing up for a couple of games throughout an ENTIRE playoff run does NOT make them SUPERSTARS. Their INCONSISTENT play is the perfect evidence for them not being Superstars. I define a Superstar who can play a lot more consistently than just 3 or 4 freaking games.

[MisterHibachi]

The only reason LeBron is even a DPOY candidate is media hype combined with him begging for the award at times.

He has statistically been nothing more than an average at best defender this season. Last year in the playoffs and regular season he also had a lot of moments where he was a liability on that end of the floor.

You are one funny dude. LeBron a liability on defense... The stuff people come up with jeez

[WinisKing]

The only reason LeBron is even a DPOY candidate is media hype combined with him begging for the award at times.

He has statistically been nothing more than an average at best defender this season. Last year in the playoffs and regular season he also had a lot of moments where he was a liability on that end of the floor.

You are one funny dude. LeBron a liability on defense... The stuff people come up with jeez

At this point you can rule out the credibility of certain posters

[Hero]

1a 1b at this point. Basically equal record in the loss column. If LeBron plays hard the rest of the season he has a very good shot at this. Record will be huge. Pacers, Heat and OKC are very close at the top. Heat have an easier schedule but OKC has Russ back.

[will]

Kyle Lowry, son

[mawan041]

1a 1b at this point. Basically equal record in the loss column. If LeBron plays hard the rest of the season he has a very good shot at this. Record will be huge. Pacers, Heat and OKC are very close at the top. Heat have an easier schedule but OKC has Russ back.

I respect your point of view, personally for me, KD has a slightly bigger lead than the 1a 1b argument.

His overall play this season along with an excellent month of January really gave him a big push.

[mswenson]

if lebron stays around 58 % shooting and ends with the best record he should automatically get it