Kings @ Nuggets

[Cruel_Ruin]

You try to win every game possible from here on out. We have a core. IT/Gay/Cousins is going to be a competitive offensive core for years to come. We have to surround them with the right defensive roleplayers.

There is precedent of teams slowly climbing up the rankings. The year before OKC made the playoffs, they went .500 to end the year. The year before Memphis made the playoffs they were 40-42. You give a core experience together, go into the offseason looking to add good pieces around the core, and go into the next season with momentum.

[Silver Man]

You try to win every game possible from here on out. We have a core. IT/Gay/Cousins is going to be a competitive offensive core for years to come. We have to surround them with the right defensive roleplayers.

There is precedent of teams slowly climbing up the rankings. The year before OKC made the playoffs, they went .500 to end the year. The year before Memphis made the playoffs they were 40-42. You give a core experience together, go into the offseason looking to add good pieces around the core, and go into the next season with momentum.

I'm sure having Kevin Durant had nothing to do with that or anything.

[Big_Cat]

You try to win every game possible from here on out. We have a core. IT/Gay/Cousins is going to be a competitive offensive core for years to come. We have to surround them with the right defensive roleplayers.

There is precedent of teams slowly climbing up the rankings. The year before OKC made the playoffs, they went .500 to end the year. The year before Memphis made the playoffs they were 40-42. You give a core experience together, go into the offseason looking to add good pieces around the core, and go into the next season with momentum.

IT/Gay/Cousins is a good core...if your goal is to never get out of the second round of the playoffs.


OKC has the 1b best player in the league, along with Westbrook who is a top 5-8 player himself. We don't have even a top 10-15 player.

Memphis? Great. Our trajectory is Memphis? A few playoff appearances, upset a few teams, get bounced in the second round, never make it to the finals, and now struggling to make the playoffs again? Awesome!

[Cruel_Ruin]

You try to win every game possible from here on out. We have a core. IT/Gay/Cousins is going to be a competitive offensive core for years to come. We have to surround them with the right defensive roleplayers.

There is precedent of teams slowly climbing up the rankings. The year before OKC made the playoffs, they went .500 to end the year. The year before Memphis made the playoffs they were 40-42. You give a core experience together, go into the offseason looking to add good pieces around the core, and go into the next season with momentum.

I'm sure having Kevin Durant had nothing to do with that or anything.

This post makes absolutely zero sense. Yes, OKC had Kevin Durant. They also had Durant the year before they made the playoffs. Experience matters.

[Cruel_Ruin]

You try to win every game possible from here on out. We have a core. IT/Gay/Cousins is going to be a competitive offensive core for years to come. We have to surround them with the right defensive roleplayers.

There is precedent of teams slowly climbing up the rankings. The year before OKC made the playoffs, they went .500 to end the year. The year before Memphis made the playoffs they were 40-42. You give a core experience together, go into the offseason looking to add good pieces around the core, and go into the next season with momentum.

IT/Gay/Cousins is a good core...if your goal is to never get out of the second round of the playoffs.


OKC has the 1b best player in the league, along with Westbrook who is a top 5-8 player himself. We don't have even a top 10-15 player.

Memphis? Great. Our trajectory is Memphis? A few playoff appearances, upset a few teams, get bounced in the second round, never make it to the finals, and now struggling to make the playoffs again? Awesome!

We have Cousins, who is going to be a Top 5 player in this league for years to come.

History tells us if you have an elite offensive big, you don't need top end stars surrounding him to win a championship. Dirk in 2011. Duncan in 03. Hakeem in 94.

Actually, if I were to throw out a championship core most similar to ours, take a look at the 1983 76ers.
Moses Malone = Cousins
Old Julius Erving = Gay
Andrew Toney = IT

Just have to surround them with the right pieces and gain some experience.

[Big_Cat]

We have Cousins, who is going to be a Top 5 player in this league for years to come.

History tells us if you have an elite offensive big, you don't need top end stars surrounding him to win a championship. Dirk in 2011. Duncan in 03. Hakeem in 94.

Actually, if I were to throw out a championship core most similar to ours, take a look at the 1983 76ers.
Moses Malone = Cousins
Old Julius Erving = Gay
Andrew Toney = IT

Just have to surround them with the right pieces and gain some experience.

I love Boogie, but a top 5 player?

Lebron? Durant? Paul? Westbrook? Parker?

Guys like, Davis, George, Embiid, Irving, Wall, Curry, Love, Aldridge, Anthony, Harden, Howard all say hi as well.



Lay off the freaking kool-aid

[Cruel_Ruin]

We have Cousins, who is going to be a Top 5 player in this league for years to come.

History tells us if you have an elite offensive big, you don't need top end stars surrounding him to win a championship. Dirk in 2011. Duncan in 03. Hakeem in 94.

Actually, if I were to throw out a championship core most similar to ours, take a look at the 1983 76ers.
Moses Malone = Cousins
Old Julius Erving = Gay
Andrew Toney = IT

Just have to surround them with the right pieces and gain some experience.

I love Boogie, but a top 5 player?

Lebron? Durant? Paul? Westbrook? Parker?

Guys like, Davis, George, Embiid, Irving, Wall, Curry, Love, Aldridge, Anthony, Harden, Howard all say hi as well.



Lay off the freaking kool-aid

Heh, you're laughing at me and you think Tony Parker and Russell Westbrook are going to remain better players?

Iring? Wall? Yikes

[SacKingZZZ]

Depends on whether or not you can fill the holes around them but IT, Gay, and Cousins is more than enough productivity to be a contender. The problem is filling the needs around them if all your assets suck and you have no space to get anything done.

I love the Embiid stuff as well. So, this kid is the next Hakeem? I see maybe a healthy Greg Oden myself. We'll see. Don't forget, shotblockers have way more impact in college than they do in the pros, the rules make a big difference.

[Big_Cat]

Heh, you're laughing at me and you think Tony Parker and Russell Westbrook are going to remain better players?

Iring? Wall? Yikes

Parker is currently a much better player, but he will regress in the next 1-2 years.

Westbrook is a much better player and will remain a much better player.

Have you actually watched Wall play this season?


Regardless of whichever season you would like to project out to, DeMarcus will not get anywhere remotely close to the top 5 player level, nor will he even be in the top 10 level. (Somewhere along 12-15 is more realistic).

[SacKingZZZ]

Wow, I think you could argue that Cuz is top 12 right now. Certainly in terms of his productivity and PER. He has a great chance of being a top 5 player at his peak.

[enderwilson]

Either way we aren't making the playoffs this year. So we win a couple more games, wow cool now we are getting between 8 and 11 instead of a potential top five or higher. We now automatically apparently have built a sinning culture by instead of picking top five we pick later in the lottery just like the last couple years. Nothing wrong with losing this year. Sometimes you have to lose to win.

"If we lose now, then maybe we'll win the draft. Maybe then we'll do better next year."
I'm not sure but I believe I've heard this before.
Let me think.....

[enderwilson]

Yes. We do. It subjective how that gets done.

Fair enough. I understand that we all want the team to be successful. But expecting success through loosing has been tried and tired. Despite the "awesome" draft class this year. Nothing speaks to success more than actually winning. It is possible to expect success through gradual improvements as opposed to one quick fix. And I expect it to be a whole lot more sustainable as well.

[enderwilson]

How freaking narrow sighted are you?

Sigh... Well, I'm not so narrow sighted as to believe that this or any other draft will miraculously change our fortunes. And alluding to aspirations of winning championships in your post is rather ingenuine considering so many of your own posts cynically deny this team ever getting close to one in the next decade.

Listen. I'm a Kings fan. Just like everyone else on this board, present company included. What I was railing against in my comment was this embracing of a LOSING culture by so many fans. By this I mean that it has gotten so that "winning" in the draft, has become MORE imporatant that winning real games. Doesn't that strike you as backwards? I know that the "tankers" are looking to the horizon towards better times. But at some point we all have to realize that the horizon will always be in the distance and that it is OK to be excited for success now. Even if success is defined simply as a few extra wins.

Although I enjoyed your analogy, it's flawed. Getting a loan and going to college is a real and proven way to enhance future earning potential. Tanking the season in order to get a better draft position on the other hand is simply gambling. So tanking and going to college are not really comparable. Granted that tanking this year may be less of a gamble than previous seasons, but 1) you never know how the balls are going to drop regarless of how the odds are in your favor (example 2009 draft), 2) even if you get a good pick, you will never know what the long-term success of that player will be (again 2009 pick), 3) you continue to leverage interest in the team's financial success, player's long term interest in this team, this team as a future destination for other players, etc. if you continually strive to loose. You've said it many times yourself that players will never want to come here because of our loosing culture. You expect the draft will magically change all this? Despite all the evidence to the contrary? And I get called narrow sighted.

On the other hand, don't assume I'm unable to see how nice it will be to get a choice pick in the draft. Just because I'm not willing to tank does not mean I'm against opportunities to improve this team. However, tanking is the koolaid we've been drinking for almost a decade now and I'm starting to feel the tooth decay.

This is academic, right? It's not like any of us has any real influence on this team's future success. But, Big_Cat, if I just do happen to "get my way" as you say, well then I will just say, "YOU ARE WELCOME!" because "my way" means that OUR team starts really winning, regardless of how it's done.

Ah winning.... The all so crutial ingredient to that aforementioned championship.

[Silver Man]

Either way we aren't making the playoffs this year. So we win a couple more games, wow cool now we are getting between 8 and 11 instead of a potential top five or higher. We now automatically apparently have built a sinning culture by instead of picking top five we pick later in the lottery just like the last couple years. Nothing wrong with losing this year. Sometimes you have to lose to win.

"If we lose now, then maybe we'll win the draft. Maybe then we'll do better next year."
I'm not sure but I believe I've heard this before.
Let me think.....

Its quite an easy concept. Top five pick gives us a better position to get a player that can change our franchise better than to get the tenth pick for example. Embiid, Parker, wiggins, exum all are exactly the players we need. Winning five extra games will do absolutely nothing except give fans also hope and give us a worst pick. It's simple sometimes you have to lose to win.

[solakidis22]

I'm all for a top 5 pick but sorry I've watched a lot of Kansas games this yr and I see some potential in embiid but still don't see the hype in the last 5 or so years every shot blocker in college who's come into the league par David cause he actually had offensive talent coming out of college but no shot blocker in college has actually done it in the nba, thabeet, noel (injuried) and the past 5 leaders in blocks are Jarvis varnado (twice), mickell gladness, Hassan whiteside, and obviously Davis. How many of those guys even have a spot on an nba team or do you even know compared to the 90's which had names like shaq, Alonzo and David Robinson. The games changing and the shot blocker has not enough impact like college. Look at Roy Hibbert blocked everybody's shot to start the year but coming up against good centres just ain't enough cuz dropped 31/13 on that fool in their home gym. So I say we need to pick Dante, I see so much more in him than any other pick being from Australia I used to play against Dante all the time and he's changed so much when I was 16 he would get bullied on the court cause he couldn't handle it nba was no where on the page for him at all barely a good college, in 2 years he improved significantly that I believe out of anyone we pick he's a player that those teams that pass on him are gonna be kicking themselves in the foot 3 years from now. He's the Paul George of this draft class

[enderwilson]

Its quite an easy concept. Top five pick gives us a better position to get a player that can change our franchise better than to get the tenth pick for example. Embiid, Parker, wiggins, exum all are exactly the players we need. Winning five extra games will do absolutely nothing except give fans also hope and give us a worst pick. It's simple sometimes you have to lose to win.

I understand the theory behind the strategy. However, it's a theory that's been tested over and over and IMO reality suggests this strategy is not as successful as the tank-crowd would like to believe.

At some point you have to want to win. But where do you step off the lottery treadmill when the idea of winning revolves around landing the highest draft pick and not NBA games? Statistically speaking, the chances are slim that a new draft pick will improve our squad enough to win more than a handful of games, much less to make it to the playoffs next year. Does this mean that the tank-squad will raise their banners again next year? When does the marry-go-round end?

I understand it's for the hopes of having a better team next year. I'm for that too. What I don't get is the bitching and moaning about every win with the idea that we're flushing our future down the drain. IMO, tanking means betting our future on the hope of a maybe. Sometimes you need to accept the existing improvement, no matter how small it may seem, as simply one step closer to a better future.

[Silver Man]

I'm all for a top 5 pick but sorry I've watched a lot of Kansas games this yr and I see some potential in embiid but still don't see the hype in the last 5 or so years every shot blocker in college who's come into the league par David cause he actually had offensive talent coming out of college but no shot blocker in college has actually done it in the nba, thabeet, noel (injuried) and the past 5 leaders in blocks are Jarvis varnado (twice), mickell gladness, Hassan whiteside, and obviously Davis. How many of those guys even have a spot on an nba team or do you even know compared to the 90's which had names like shaq, Alonzo and David Robinson. The games changing and the shot blocker has not enough impact like college. Look at Roy Hibbert blocked everybody's shot to start the year but coming up against good centres just ain't enough cuz dropped 31/13 on that fool in their home gym. So I say we need to pick Dante, I see so much more in him than any other pick being from Australia I used to play against Dante all the time and he's changed so much when I was 16 he would get bullied on the court cause he couldn't handle it nba was no where on the page for him at all barely a good college, in 2 years he improved significantly that I believe out of anyone we pick he's a player that those teams that pass on him are gonna be kicking themselves in the foot 3 years from now. He's the Paul George of this draft class

There's a lot more to defense than the amount of blocked shots someone has. There's other major reasons why those guys aren't in the nba anymore.

[Silver Man]

Its quite an easy concept. Top five pick gives us a better position to get a player that can change our franchise better than to get the tenth pick for example. Embiid, Parker, wiggins, exum all are exactly the players we need. Winning five extra games will do absolutely nothing except give fans also hope and give us a worst pick. It's simple sometimes you have to lose to win.

I understand the theory behind the strategy. However, it's a theory that's been tested over and over and IMO reality suggests this strategy is not as successful as the tank-crowd would like to believe.

At some point you have to want to win. But where do you step off the lottery treadmill when the idea of winning revolves around landing the highest draft pick and not NBA games? Statistically speaking, the chances are slim that a new draft pick will improve our squad enough to win more than a handful of games, much less to make it to the playoffs next year. Does this mean that the tank-squad will raise their banners again next year? When does the marry-go-round end?

I understand it's for the hopes of having a better team next year. I'm for that too. What I don't get is the bitching and moaning about every win with the idea that we're flushing our future down the drain. IMO, tanking means betting our future on the hope of a maybe. Sometimes you need to accept the existing improvement, no matter how small it may seem, as simply one step closer to a better future.

I've never met someone who doesn't want to win. Everyone wants to win but sometimes you just have to be patient. We don't need a top pick to get a franchise changing player. A top five pick in this draft will get us either exum, wiggins, Parker, Embiid or Randle. All players who will help us. Thomas if he's here next year(hopefully not), Gay if he comes back, and cousins is not a good enough core to contend. There's no point in getting the 8th seed and bounced in the playoffs every year. That's a terrible strategy.

[enderwilson]

I've never met someone who doesn't want to win. Everyone wants to win but sometimes you just have to be patient. We don't need a top pick to get a franchise changing player. A top five pick in this draft will get us either exum, wiggins, Parker, Embiid or Randle. All players who will help us. Thomas if he's here next year(hopefully not), Gay if he comes back, and cousins is not a good enough core to contend. There's no point in getting the 8th seed and bounced in the playoffs every year. That's a terrible strategy.

Although I agree with this, that's not the impression one would necessarily get by looking at the response of the pro-tank crowd when the Kings do win.

To me there's a distinction between patent vs. stagnant. I'm patient enough to know, and accept, that we won't be in the playoffs for perhaps another couple years. But my crystal ball is not so clear as to see when that will happen, what our core will look like when it does, nor what the makeup of the western conference teams nor title contenders is going to look like. Maybe I need to shop for a new one? Where did you get yours?

Contending is a noble goal, but none of the players you named above will guarantee this dream either. No one has a crystal ball that is that insightful. What I do know is that before we contend, we must get to the playoffs, before we get to the playoffs, this team must learn how to win and win consistently. There are sooooo many steps between where we are now and becoming a contender. Though the draft may help us navigate some of them, at some point the focus needs to be on the first hurtle which is to win consistently. This is why, I'm personally excited for each win. It's the right and obvious step in the direction we all want to see this team go in.