Imagine If We Played Properly...

[Damon_3388]

... and distributed the shots and touches in the right way, and people took the shots they should be taking, and could put their egos aside...

Andre Drummond - 36 minutes per game - 15 field goal attempts per game / 0 3PT attempts per game / 6 free throw attempts per game - .550 FG%/.000 3PT%/.400 FT% - 19.65 points per game

Greg Monroe - 36 minutes per game - 15 field goal attempts per game / 0 3PT attempts per game / 6 free throw attempts per game - .500 FG%/.000 3PT%/.666 FT% - 19.00 points per game

Josh Smith - 36 minutes per game - 10 field goal attempts per game / 2 3PT attempts per game / 4 free throw attempts per game - .475 FG%/.333 3PT%/.666 FT% - 12.83 points per game

Kentavious Caldwell-Pope - 36 minutes per game - 10 field goal attempts per game / 3 3PT attempts per game / 4 free throw attempts per game - .450 FG%/.375 3PT%/.750 FT% - 13.13 points per game

Brandon Jennings - 36 minutes per game - 10 field goal attempts per game / 3 3PT attempts per game / 4 free throw attempts per game - .450 FG%/.375 3PT%/.800 FT% - 13.33 points per game

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Josh Harrelson - 12 minutes per game - 3.33 field goal attempts per game / 0.67 3PT attempts per game / 0.67 free throw attempts per game - .475 FG%/.375 3PT%/.666 FT% - 3.63 points per game

Jonas Jerebko - 12 minutes per game - 3.33 field goal attempts per game / 0.67 3PT attempts per game / 1.33 free throw attempts per game - .475 FG%/.333 3PT%/.750 FT% - 4.38 points per game

Kyle Singler - 12 minutes per game - 3.33 field goal attempts per game / 1.00 3PT attempts per game / 1.00 free throw attempts per game - .450 FG%/.375 3PT%/.800 FT% - 4.07 points per game

Rodney Stuckey - 12 minutes per game - 5 field goal attempts per game / 0.67 3PT attempts per game / 2.00 free throw attempts per game - .450 FG%/.333 3PT%/.800 FT% - 6.32 points per game

Will Bynum - 12 minutes per game - 5 field goal attempts per game / 0.67 3PT attempts per game / 1.33 free throw attempts per game - .450 FG%/.333 3PT%/.750 FT% - 5.72 points per game

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Prospective Totals - 102.06 points per game - .493 FG%/.350 3PT%/.656 FT%
Currrently - 100.65 points per game - .449 FG%/.312 3PT%/.662 FT%

Sure, it's not a huge difference in actual points per game, but we'd be far more consistent and sure of what we were going to get each night, and wouldn't be in danger of shooting ourselves out of the game in any given contest.

[sc8581]

Lol at Drummond getting 15 shots per game. It doesn't work that way, sorry to burst your bubble.

[Damon_3388]

Lol at Drummond getting 15 shots per game. It doesn't work that way, sorry to burst your bubble.

It doesn't work that way, but it should.

[sc8581]

Lol at Drummond getting 15 shots per game. It doesn't work that way, sorry to burst your bubble.

It doesn't work that way, but it should.

It doesn't work that way because if Drummond tried to get 15 shots per game he would turn the ball over several times if he didn't foul out by halftime.

[Damon_3388]

It doesn't work that way because if Drummond tried to get 15 shots per game he would turn the ball over several times if he didn't foul out by halftime.

He doesn't have a particularly high turnover or foul rate for the number of touches he gets now (per minute, his FGA, turnover rate and foul rate is roughly the same as Kyle Singler), so I don't see why it'd suddenly rise to a prohibitive level if we simply gave him the ball more.

[sc8581]

It doesn't work that way because if Drummond tried to get 15 shots per game he would turn the ball over several times if he didn't foul out by halftime.

He doesn't have a particularly high turnover or foul rate for the number of touches he gets now (per minute, his FGA, turnover rate and foul rate is roughly the same as Kyle Singler), so I don't see why it'd suddenly rise to a prohibitive level if we simply gave him the ball more.

That's because right now he basically only gets put-backs and lobs, if there were a way to get him 12 or 13 of those a game you might be on to something but clearly that's not feasible.

[ComboGuardCity]

It starts on defense. These guys are talented enough to score points on their own. I think it would be interesting to insert Stuckey and KCP in the SL for Singler and Jennings. The defense would surely improve, but could Monroe/Stuckey initiate the offense? It'd be an interesting lineup to see IMO.

[sc8581]

It starts on defense. These guys are talented enough to score points on their own. I think it would be interesting to insert Stuckey and KCP in the SL for Singler and Jennings. The defense would surely improve, but could Monroe/Stuckey initiate the offense? It'd be an interesting lineup to see IMO.

I would prefer to see one of the following starting line-ups myself

Drum/Smith/Singler/KCP/Stuckey
or
Drum/Monroe/Singler/KCP/Stuckey

[jakebernat]

That's because right now he basically only gets put-backs and lobs, if there were a way to get him 12 or 13 of those a game you might be on to something but clearly that's not feasible.

i don't know, drummond has looked more and more comfortable with the ball in his hands in the post. he doesn't always make the greatest moves with his back to the basket, but when he's been getting the ball 5-6 feet from the rim whether it be from a teammate or an offensive rebound, he's been surprisingly confident and effective. notice he usually doesn't look to pass it when he's able to clean the glass on offense. his minds made up that he's going to find a way to put the ball in the basket. his combination of strength, agility, finesse, and athleticism is truly astonishing for a center, so it lets him get away with some awkward (but EFFECTIVE) moves around the basket. he has an incredibly soft touch around the rim for a player lacking significant polish. i absolutely agree that smith should more of a facilitator on offense ala iguodala if it means getting dre more shots/touches.

[sc8581]

It's not just Drummond getting 15 shots per game either, Monroe has been taking a lot more shots recently and has been very inefficient, not Smith-like inefficiency but still bad for a PF/C, especially one that doesn't leave the paint on offense. This is exactly what I've been saying all along would happen if we tried to keep feeding Monroe in the paint, he's good but matchup reliant and not a big money player.

[Damon_3388]

It's not just Drummond getting 15 shots per game either, Monroe has been taking a lot more shots recently and has been very inefficient, not Smith-like inefficiency but still bad for a PF/C, especially one that doesn't leave the paint on offense. This is exactly what I've been saying all along would happen if we tried to keep feeding Monroe in the paint, he's good but matchup reliant and not a big money player.

In the 14 games this season where he has taken 15 field goal attempts or more, Monroe's FG% is .483. Not fantastic, you say? Well, of the 29 players in the league averaging 15+ FGA per game this year, only six players in the league (LeBron James, Blake Griffin, Kevin Durant, Dirk Nowitzki, Al Jefferson and DeMarcus Cousins) are shooting better than .483 from the field, so if that's the expected output and result from giving Monroe more touches, I think we can take it.

[sc8581]

It's not just Drummond getting 15 shots per game either, Monroe has been taking a lot more shots recently and has been very inefficient, not Smith-like inefficiency but still bad for a PF/C, especially one that doesn't leave the paint on offense. This is exactly what I've been saying all along would happen if we tried to keep feeding Monroe in the paint, he's good but matchup reliant and not a big money player.

In the 14 games this season where he has taken 15 field goal attempts or more, Monroe's FG% is .483. Not fantastic, you say? Well, of the 29 players in the league averaging 15+ FGA per game this year, only six players in the league (LeBron James, Blake Griffin, Kevin Durant, Dirk Nowitzki, Al Jefferson and DeMarcus Cousins) are shooting better than .483 from the field, so if that's the expected output and result from giving Monroe more touches, I think we can take it.

That is a seriously flawed statistical argument to put it nicely. Of those 14 games he has only scored efficiently in 2, and we're talking about a guy that doesn't take shots outside of the paint.

[Damon_3388]

It's not just Drummond getting 15 shots per game either, Monroe has been taking a lot more shots recently and has been very inefficient, not Smith-like inefficiency but still bad for a PF/C, especially one that doesn't leave the paint on offense. This is exactly what I've been saying all along would happen if we tried to keep feeding Monroe in the paint, he's good but matchup reliant and not a big money player.

In the 14 games this season where he has taken 15 field goal attempts or more, Monroe's FG% is .483. Not fantastic, you say? Well, of the 29 players in the league averaging 15+ FGA per game this year, only six players in the league (LeBron James, Blake Griffin, Kevin Durant, Dirk Nowitzki, Al Jefferson and DeMarcus Cousins) are shooting better than .483 from the field, so if that's the expected output and result from giving Monroe more touches, I think we can take it.

That is a seriously flawed statistical argument to put it nicely. Of those 14 games he has only scored efficiently in 2, and we're talking about a guy that doesn't take shots outside of the paint.

Well what are you classing as "efficient"? As I said, it's pretty rare these days for any high volume scorer, big man or not, to operate at 50% from the field

[sc8581]

So Monroe has scored efficiently 2 out of 14 games in which he took at least 15 shots, that's 14%.
Smith has scored efficiently in 8 out of 33 games in which he took at least 15 shots, that's 24%.
Jennings 14 out of 30
Drummond 1 out of 4
Singler 0 of 1
Stuckey 9 of 16

That's every 15 shot game a player has had for us this season. So who do you want shooting?

[sc8581]

In the 14 games this season where he has taken 15 field goal attempts or more, Monroe's FG% is .483. Not fantastic, you say? Well, of the 29 players in the league averaging 15+ FGA per game this year, only six players in the league (LeBron James, Blake Griffin, Kevin Durant, Dirk Nowitzki, Al Jefferson and DeMarcus Cousins) are shooting better than .483 from the field, so if that's the expected output and result from giving Monroe more touches, I think we can take it.

That is a seriously flawed statistical argument to put it nicely. Of those 14 games he has only scored efficiently in 2, and we're talking about a guy that doesn't take shots outside of the paint.

Well what are you classing as "efficient"? As I said, it's pretty rare these days for any high volume scorer, big man or not, to operate at 50% from the field

PPS is what I'm going off of, it would take hours to get the ts% for every game.

[Damon_3388]

So Monroe has scored efficiently 2 out of 14 games in which he took at least 15 shots, that's 14%.
Smith has scored efficiently in 8 out of 33 games in which he took at least 15 shots, that's 24%.
Jennings 14 out of 30
Drummond 1 out of 4
Singler 0 of 1
Stuckey 9 of 16

That's every 15 shot game a player has had for us this season. So who do you want shooting?

PPS is what I'm going off of, it would take hours to get the ts% for every game.

Explain to me how Monroe's .483 FG% from the 14 games where he has taken 15+ shots is "inefficient"?

He's shot better than 50% from the field in 7 of those 14 games too, so I'm not sure where you're getting this "he's only shot efficiently in 2 out of 14 games" business from either.

[sc8581]

So Monroe has scored efficiently 2 out of 14 games in which he took at least 15 shots, that's 14%.
Smith has scored efficiently in 8 out of 33 games in which he took at least 15 shots, that's 24%.
Jennings 14 out of 30
Drummond 1 out of 4
Singler 0 of 1
Stuckey 9 of 16

That's every 15 shot game a player has had for us this season. So who do you want shooting?

PPS is what I'm going off of, it would take hours to get the ts% for every game.

Explain to me how Monroe's .483 FG% from the 14 games where he has taken 15+ shots is "inefficient"?

He's shot better than 50% from the field in 7 of those 14 games too, so I'm not sure where you're getting this "he's only shot efficiently in 2 out of 14 games" business from either.

For starters, .483% for a big man that takes nearly all of his shots from inside the paint is poor, second, fg% is not the only factor in efficiency. You are way off base with that assumption.

[Damon_3388]

For starters, .483% for a big man that takes nearly all of his shots from inside the paint is poor

Non-3 point shooters averaging 15+ FGA per game with FG% better than .483 this season:

- Blake Griffin
- Al Jefferson
- DeMarcus Cousins

That's it.

If you want to be generous and drop the criteria down to averaging 15+ FGA per game with FG% better than .483 this season:

- Serge Ibaka
- Blake Griffin
- Nikola Pekovic
- Anthony Davis
- David Lee
- Al Jefferson
- DeMarcus Cousins

I've named most of the best scoring big men in the NBA there.

.483 is a perfectly acceptable FG% for any type of player if you're taking that many shots.

second, fg% is not the only factor in efficiency. You are way off base with that assumption.

I'm not saying it's the only factor. You're not really presenting any other factors though. I'm still unsure exactly what you're basing your flimsy argument on TBH.

[sc8581]

For starters, .483% for a big man that takes nearly all of his shots from inside the paint is poor

Non-3 point shooters averaging 15+ FGA per game with FG% better than .483 this season:

- Blake Griffin
- Al Jefferson
- DeMarcus Cousins

That's it.

If you want to be generous and drop the criteria down to averaging 15+ FGA per game with FG% better than .483 this season:

- Serge Ibaka
- Blake Griffin
- Nikola Pekovic
- Anthony Davis
- David Lee
- Al Jefferson
- DeMarcus Cousins

I've named most of the best scoring big men in the NBA there.

.483 is a perfectly acceptable FG% for any type of player if you're taking that many shots.

second, fg% is not the only factor in efficiency. You are way off base with that assumption.

I'm not saying it's the only factor. You're not really presenting any other factors though. I'm still unsure exactly what you're basing your flimsy argument on TBH.

I told you in a previous post I'm going off of PPS (point per shot).

One difference between Monroe and most of those guys is he doesn't leave the paint as I've also stated previously at least once.

[Damon_3388]

I told you in a previous post I'm going off of PPS (point per shot).

If you're doing PPS as "points divided by FGA", it can then easily be skewed by a player's free throw rate and their percentage from the line. How about you actually go by shots he's taking from the field? Or would that not support your argument at all?

One difference between Monroe and most of those guys is he doesn't leave the paint as I've also stated previously at least once.

Where do guys like Blake, Pekovic, Jefferson and Cousins get most of their points? In the paint.

As I've clearly stated, there's very few big man scorers who shoot that percentage, and very few volume scorers who do in general.