Jan Vesely Part II: He a Bust

[hands11]

He doesn't have skills. This is what many of us pointed out before he was drafted. Give the rest of the regulars here some credit. Before he was drafted, many full-game videos of Vesely were posted on this board, and several of us took the time to look at them. Of the posters who did take that time, we were pretty much unanimous in concluding he did not have the skills to excel in the NBA. And it wasn't just - "Well, maybe he just needs work on this or that." It was - "He's so far away from having adequate skills, that he's most likely not going to make it in the NBA." Being able to run and dunk isn't enough. At some point, if he works hard enough, he probably could become an adequate player, but working hard is up to him - not the Wizards.

I think hands11 was too busy touting Vesely as the next star of the Wizards to actually look at scouting videos.

I think you would be wrong. Cute reply though. But not accurate. But don't let that get in your way.

I think CCJ, I and others have been more then clear in our evaluation and expectations.

[Dat2U]

He doesn't have skills. This is what many of us pointed out before he was drafted. Give the rest of the regulars here some credit. Before he was drafted, many full-game videos of Vesely were posted on this board, and several of us took the time to look at them. Of the posters who did take that time, we were pretty much unanimous in concluding he did not have the skills to excel in the NBA. And it wasn't just - "Well, maybe he just needs work on this or that." It was - "He's so far away from having adequate skills, that he's most likely not going to make it in the NBA." Being able to run and dunk isn't enough. At some point, if he works hard enough, he probably could become an adequate player, but working hard is up to him - not the Wizards.

I think hands11 was too busy touting Vesely as the next star of the Wizards to actually look at scouting videos.

I think you would be wrong. Cute reply though. But not accurate. But don't let that get in your way.

I think CCJ, I and others have been more then clear in our evaluation and expectations.

You don't want me to find that quote do you? You really think I'm the only one that remembers what you said.

[hands11]

2011 NBA Draft Grades:

Sports Illustrated A+
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2011/writers/sam_amick/06/24/draft.grades/

CBS B
http://www.cbssports.com/nba/story/15260158

Yahoo A+
http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/blog/ball_dont_lie/post/Ball-Don-8217-t-Lie-8217-s-2011-NBA-Draft-grad?urn=nba-wp5536

Foxsport B
http://msn.foxsports.com/nba/story/2011-NBA-draft-report-card-062411

NBADraft B
http://www.nbadraft.net/2011-nba-draft-grades

Chad Ford's big board Vesely was rated the 11th best prospect
http://insider.espn.go.com/nbadraft/results/top100/_/year/2011

We can revisionist history the 2011 draft and the Vesely selection all we want, but national writers who cover the NBA and are plugged in with NBA executives unanimously praised the pick's and touted Vesely as a lottery worthy selection. As I said above, this doesn't sound all that dissimilar with the Porter pick (although I distinctly remember Simmons and Ford crushing Porter on their pre-draft podcast).

Never let facts get in the way I guess.

Ves is a better prospect then McGee largely do to the fact that McGee is a bone head. Ves is not a bone head. I think Ves will work out nicely in Denver. Specially after they get Lawson back.

And I bet he signs for more then the vet min in the off season also.

[dobrojim]

Now Otto Porter was a better pick than Vesely, and considered an immediate contributor as well, but the Wizards decided to re-sign Martell Webster and basically blocked Porter's path into the rotation. That's poor asset management. You don't draft a 3rd pick with the intention of using them only as a 3rd stringer the first season. No team does that (the only team that did was the Pistons during their championship run with Darko). That's a Wizards issue, not an issue with trying to develop too many guys at one time. I think your using the incompetence of the Wizards to validate your bigger point about trying to develop too many projects and it may fit the Wizards scenario, but I see as poor execution by an inept front office as opposed to a flawed strategy.

I think his injury, particularly its timing, had more to do with it. I think they expected
he would be able to contribute in spite of having 2 solid contributors 'ahead' of him.
Missing camp, pre-season and the first ~2 months of the season put the kibosh on that
notion.

Noel may end up as having been the wiser choice but there are still plenty of questions
about his ability to translate college success to the NBA, particularly his weight but also
the apparent lack of much offensive talent. There is also a minor issue of his recovery
as well as BPA vs drafting for fit although I accept in this case, assuming he recovers
and is effective, Noel would be a good fit on the Wizards.

Dipo would have been nice as a 3rd guard but ORL snagged him.

[Ruzious]

2011 NBA Draft Grades:

Sports Illustrated A+
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2011/writers/sam_amick/06/24/draft.grades/

CBS B
http://www.cbssports.com/nba/story/15260158

Yahoo A+
http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/blog/ball_dont_lie/post/Ball-Don-8217-t-Lie-8217-s-2011-NBA-Draft-grad?urn=nba-wp5536

Foxsport B
http://msn.foxsports.com/nba/story/2011-NBA-draft-report-card-062411

NBADraft B
http://www.nbadraft.net/2011-nba-draft-grades

Chad Ford's big board Vesely was rated the 11th best prospect
http://insider.espn.go.com/nbadraft/results/top100/_/year/2011

We can revisionist history the 2011 draft and the Vesely selection all we want, but national writers who cover the NBA and are plugged in with NBA executives unanimously praised the pick's and touted Vesely as a lottery worthy selection. As I said above, this doesn't sound all that dissimilar with the Porter pick (although I distinctly remember Simmons and Ford crushing Porter on their pre-draft podcast).

Never let facts get in the way I guess.

Ves is a better prospect then McGee largely do to the fact that McGee is a bone head. Ves is not a bone head. I think Ves will work out nicely in Denver. Specially after they get Lawson back.

And I bet he signs for more then the vet min in the off season also.

LOLOLOL

[hands11]

2011 NBA Draft Grades:

Sports Illustrated A+
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2011/writers/sam_amick/06/24/draft.grades/

CBS B
http://www.cbssports.com/nba/story/15260158

Yahoo A+
http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/blog/ball_dont_lie/post/Ball-Don-8217-t-Lie-8217-s-2011-NBA-Draft-grad?urn=nba-wp5536

Foxsport B
http://msn.foxsports.com/nba/story/2011-NBA-draft-report-card-062411

NBADraft B
http://www.nbadraft.net/2011-nba-draft-grades

Chad Ford's big board Vesely was rated the 11th best prospect
http://insider.espn.go.com/nbadraft/results/top100/_/year/2011

We can revisionist history the 2011 draft and the Vesely selection all we want, but national writers who cover the NBA and are plugged in with NBA executives unanimously praised the pick's and touted Vesely as a lottery worthy selection. As I said above, this doesn't sound all that dissimilar with the Porter pick (although I distinctly remember Simmons and Ford crushing Porter on their pre-draft podcast).

Um no, On THIS BOARD almost unanimously panned the selection of Vesely and he was atop nearly everyone's do not draft list. The Wizards got it wrong. The national and local media got it wrong. This board got it right.

You are right. Him going #6 was a consensus bad move per the board. I didn't understand the picks. Ves and Singleton ? But there were several here that liked the Singleton pick and once Ves way here, more started to hope for the best. Me included. But he wasn't a predraft target.

But that really isn't the issue anymore. Its about does Ves suck and will he flame out of the NBA. Was he underutilized here. And will he do better now that he is out of there.

http://www.denverpost.com/nuggets/ci_25 ... -anew-nugs

Interesting. They had told him a couple of days earlier that he wouldn't get traded and then he was. They were probably trying to give them Singleton but Denver got Ernie because they knew he had to dump Maynor so they asked for Ves instead.

[hands11]

2011 NBA Draft Grades:

Sports Illustrated A+
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2011/writers/sam_amick/06/24/draft.grades/

CBS B
http://www.cbssports.com/nba/story/15260158

Yahoo A+
http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/blog/ball_dont_lie/post/Ball-Don-8217-t-Lie-8217-s-2011-NBA-Draft-grad?urn=nba-wp5536

Foxsport B
http://msn.foxsports.com/nba/story/2011-NBA-draft-report-card-062411

NBADraft B
http://www.nbadraft.net/2011-nba-draft-grades

Chad Ford's big board Vesely was rated the 11th best prospect
http://insider.espn.go.com/nbadraft/results/top100/_/year/2011

We can revisionist history the 2011 draft and the Vesely selection all we want, but national writers who cover the NBA and are plugged in with NBA executives unanimously praised the pick's and touted Vesely as a lottery worthy selection. As I said above, this doesn't sound all that dissimilar with the Porter pick (although I distinctly remember Simmons and Ford crushing Porter on their pre-draft podcast).

Never let facts get in the way I guess.

Ves is a better prospect then McGee largely do to the fact that McGee is a bone head. Ves is not a bone head. I think Ves will work out nicely in Denver. Specially after they get Lawson back.

And I bet he signs for more then the vet min in the off season also.

LOLOLOL

[jivelikenice]

Jan won't be one of those regret guys. I advocated for him to play more here but the problem was his lack of mental toughness. The Jan you'd see in the summer - shooting the J without hesitattion, going stronger to the hoop - was never going to materialize because he would hide on the court when paird with vets and was afraid to go to the FT line. He was never going to live up to his draft status but he could have been a rotational player if he hadn't been soo mentally weak. Do I blame him totally?..No. I think timing with the knucklehead crew just leaving, Nene arriving, and Randy didn't help the situation, but I'm sure if he stood out in practice he would have gotten more of an opportunity. On a team like Denver that is basically playing out the season with young guys, he might put up some ok numbers in garbage time, but its meaningless production.

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

The steals and blocks, with good rebounds are going to be paired with confidence. Shaw will coach Vesely up, unlike the Wizards. Mack and Vesely are decent role players.

I think Vesely is going to make the Wizards look stupid for ruining his time in DC.

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John Wall has made you look bad.

What is better with Wall?

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[TGW]

Since you asked, 3pt percentage, free throw percentage, leadership, half-court offense, being a facilitator, and being the best player on a playoff team. Sorry if he isn't stat padding on a terrible team, since that seems to be more valuable to you.

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[hands11]

Since you asked, 3pt percentage, free throw percentage, leadership, half-court offense, being a facilitator, and being the best player on a playoff team. Sorry if he isn't stat padding on a terrible team, since that seems to be more valuable to you.

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Wait. You saying that all improvement doesn't always show up in the stats ?

Novel concept.

But I agree. Wall is improving. Not least of which he seems to play a more even game now. He is learning what to do and when. He is also learning to win and how to play beyond just his speed. He added PnR passing this year once they add Gortat and now he does it with more players. And he did add a better 3 ball. John is maturing and not all of it shows up in the stats. But that maturity will show up in more wins as long as they have players around him.

His last two games have been real nice. Should be interest to look back and see what effect adding A Miller has on his consistency.

This Wall is a lot better then Wall before last year regardless of how much it shows up in the stats. But eventually, I expect the improvement to show more in stats. It doesn't always happen right away. Bad game pull down the averages. Its doing it consistently that raises them.

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

TGW said Wall made me look bad. I asked what improved.

I do think Wall has improved. I don't wish to argue. On this, I will just let it go.

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[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

Double post.

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

Since you asked, 3pt percentage, free throw percentage, leadership, half-court offense, being a facilitator, and being the best player on a playoff team. Sorry if he isn't stat padding on a terrible team, since that seems to be more valuable to you.

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Oh, this is really about DeMarcus Cousins. I see.

Wall is on a good streak, but Lowry's team won in DC. Three games before the all star game, Wall did not show great leadership. Looking off Beal to force a shot; not defending Nick Calathes, and shooting woefully.

Wall improved his three point shot a bunch. While his FT percentage went up, his attempts are way down. His PER is down.

I do think Wall is better, but not much better. The last two games he has been a terrific leader.

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[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

I totally was wrong to say Vesely's FT shooting can easily be fixed. I feel it's a mental block. But, I didn't realize he is 54-135, or 40 percent CAREER.

Wow! I can shoot better with either hand. How can he be that bad?


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[AFM]

Not just FTs. How many jumpers has he made in his career? I bet you could count on one hand.

[Illuminaire]

How can he be that bad?

I think that about almost everything Vesely does on the court.

[Nivek]

Wall's jumper really hasn't improved much, if at all. He's taking and hitting 3pt shots better, but the net result of his shot selection and inaccuracy on 2pt jumpers has erased nearly all of the 3pt effect.

Code: Select all

SHOT           2013    2014
Jumpers        .389    .387
At-Rim         .594    .674
3-10 ft        .429    .316
10-16 ft       .379    .279
16ft-3pt       .372    .372
3pt            .400    .483


He is hitting better from 3pt range, but he's significantly worse from the mid-range, and his long 2pt shooting is identical (so far). Now a look at his shot selection:

Code: Select all

2013-14        efg     %FGA
Jumpers        .387    73%
At-Rim         .674    24%
3-10 ft        .316    10%
10-16 ft       .279    7%
16ft-3pt       .372    36%
3pt            .483    22%



Wall's efg on jumpers is .387 (this INCLUDES 3pt shots) -- but it accounts for 73% of his fga. The lowest yield shots in his repertoire are 2pt shots outside 3 feet (efg of .349), yet they account for nearly 54% of his attempts.

There's no justification for this kind of shot selection.

[Nivek]

Vesely has shot from the outside about like he shoots FTs. For his career, he's 39-162 from 3 feet and out -- 24.1%. On shots classified as jumpers, he's 23-135 -- 17%.

[hands11]

I totally was wrong to say Vesely's FT shooting can easily be fixed. I feel it's a mental block. But, I didn't realize he is 54-135, or 40 percent CAREER.

Wow! I can shoot better with either hand. How can he be that bad?


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No problem. I heard he is starting to do a standing two foot jump from the line and dunking his FTs.

He is unveiling it tonight at 9 against Portland.