Imagine If We Played Properly...

[Balrog]

... and distributed the shots and touches in the right way, and people took the shots they should be taking, and could put their egos aside...

Andre Drummond - 36 minutes per game - 15 field goal attempts per game / 0 3PT attempts per game / 6 free throw attempts per game - .550 FG%/.000 3PT%/.400 FT% - 19.65 points per game

Greg Monroe - 36 minutes per game - 15 field goal attempts per game / 0 3PT attempts per game / 6 free throw attempts per game - .500 FG%/.000 3PT%/.666 FT% - 19.00 points per game

Josh Smith - 36 minutes per game - 10 field goal attempts per game / 2 3PT attempts per game / 4 free throw attempts per game - .475 FG%/.333 3PT%/.666 FT% - 12.83 points per game

Kentavious Caldwell-Pope - 36 minutes per game - 10 field goal attempts per game / 3 3PT attempts per game / 4 free throw attempts per game - .450 FG%/.375 3PT%/.750 FT% - 13.13 points per game

Brandon Jennings - 36 minutes per game - 10 field goal attempts per game / 3 3PT attempts per game / 4 free throw attempts per game - .450 FG%/.375 3PT%/.800 FT% - 13.33 points per game

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Josh Harrelson - 12 minutes per game - 3.33 field goal attempts per game / 0.67 3PT attempts per game / 0.67 free throw attempts per game - .475 FG%/.375 3PT%/.666 FT% - 3.63 points per game

Jonas Jerebko - 12 minutes per game - 3.33 field goal attempts per game / 0.67 3PT attempts per game / 1.33 free throw attempts per game - .475 FG%/.333 3PT%/.750 FT% - 4.38 points per game

Kyle Singler - 12 minutes per game - 3.33 field goal attempts per game / 1.00 3PT attempts per game / 1.00 free throw attempts per game - .450 FG%/.375 3PT%/.800 FT% - 4.07 points per game

Rodney Stuckey - 12 minutes per game - 5 field goal attempts per game / 0.67 3PT attempts per game / 2.00 free throw attempts per game - .450 FG%/.333 3PT%/.800 FT% - 6.32 points per game

Will Bynum - 12 minutes per game - 5 field goal attempts per game / 0.67 3PT attempts per game / 1.33 free throw attempts per game - .450 FG%/.333 3PT%/.750 FT% - 5.72 points per game

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Prospective Totals - 102.06 points per game - .493 FG%/.350 3PT%/.656 FT%
Currrently - 100.65 points per game - .449 FG%/.312 3PT%/.662 FT%

Sure, it's not a huge difference in actual points per game, but we'd be far more consistent and sure of what we were going to get each night, and wouldn't be in danger of shooting ourselves out of the game in any given contest.

LOL, Imagine if we played properly... Is this Robocop basketball?

ridiculous..

[E-Z]

The Pistons wouldn't have that many shot attempts if they played properly. A proper offense can execute plays in the half court. Currently, this team is incapable of doing this. Its the reason why so many fourth quarter leads were squandered.

Execution comes with chemistry. Chemistry comes with time. It is pradoxial to expect a winning team to spawn out of the blue when the lineups get shifted around, a going core gets split up, and a big free agent comes in, doing whatever he believes is right.

This roster isn't that great, even if they executed flawlessly on both ends of the court. That's the sad part.

[sc8581]

I told you in a previous post I'm going off of PPS (point per shot).

If you're doing PPS as "points divided by FGA", it can then easily be skewed by a player's free throw rate and their percentage from the line. How about you actually go by shots he's taking from the field? Or would that not support your argument at all?

One difference between Monroe and most of those guys is he doesn't leave the paint as I've also stated previously at least once.

Where do guys like Blake, Pekovic, Jefferson and Cousins get most of their points? In the paint.

As I've clearly stated, there's very few big man scorers who shoot that percentage, and very few volume scorers who do in general.

You'll understand eventually.

[Invictus88]

Lol at Drummond getting 15 shots per game. It doesn't work that way, sorry to burst your bubble.

It doesn't work that way, but it should.

It doesn't work that way because if Drummond tried to get 15 shots per game he would turn the ball over several times if he didn't foul out by halftime.

This may be true. At first. But Drummond is 20 years old and NEEDS the opportunity to learn. With the above attitude he never will. I mean, what do we really have to lose by giving him more shots at the expense of more experienced and still unproductive vets?

[sc8581]

It doesn't work that way, but it should.

It doesn't work that way because if Drummond tried to get 15 shots per game he would turn the ball over several times if he didn't foul out by halftime.

This may be true. At first. But Drummond is 20 years old and NEEDS the opportunity to learn. With the above attitude he never will. I mean, what do we really have to lose by giving him more shots at the expense of more experienced and still unproductive vets?

I never said we shouldn't give him touches in the post, just that bumping him up to 15 attempts per game all of a sudden is laughable.

[vic]

Running a few plays for KCP would give him confidence and improve the offense SO much.
Also starting Singler and bringing Smith or even (hopefully not) Drummond off the bench.

Thats what happens when you have a strong coach or smart players.
Maybe next year.

[Alexander]

Jennings/Stuckey...Bynum
Caldwell-Pope/Singler...Datome
Singler/Smith...Jerebko
Monroe/Smith...Mitchell
Drummond/Monroe...Harrellson

and leave CV off the active roster for being a cancerous bum.

KCP and Singler and Jennings are largely in place to spread the floor for Monroe (high post) and Drummond. We'd often run the offense through Monroe and would go into a horns set with both bigmen in the highpost and the backcourt players cutting all around. Monroe's AST% dropped from 18.8 to 9.9% this season, and this should be remedied. Smith gets the bulk of his minutes at PF and the rest of the way we limit him offensively like he was in 09-10.

[Invictus88]

It doesn't work that way because if Drummond tried to get 15 shots per game he would turn the ball over several times if he didn't foul out by halftime.

This may be true. At first. But Drummond is 20 years old and NEEDS the opportunity to learn. With the above attitude he never will. I mean, what do we really have to lose by giving him more shots at the expense of more experienced and still unproductive vets?

I never said we shouldn't give him touches in the post, just that bumping him up to 15 attempts per game all of a sudden is laughable.

I wouldn't mind it even then. It would hope it would be completely obvious what the team was trying to accomplish (sacrificing wins for the sake of Drummond's development and the Pistons' future).

But I can see your point too.

[MrBigShot]

We could absolutely get Dre up to 12 looks a game. Look for him more on the P&R...give him more touches. A lot of possessions end with him being completely ignored.

The percentages are far too optimistic though. Brandon Jennings will never shoot 45% from the field.

[kurtis48239]

I have to keep reminding myself that when I hear people say greg took 15 shots in a game that it really means he has scored within layup distance and really only takes 1-2 actual jump shots per game.I think moose gets enough touches,he just so happens to use those opertunities around the rim,which I think takes more from dre than what smooth does,and that goes back to having 2 centers playin up front, if people want dre to get those touches,then moose needs to be benched because if those 2 are playing together then greg really should be getting those touches because he has the better foot work which makes him better around the rim to get his shot then dre.
Thats what makes smith so much better at pf because if you put him next to dre,he matches dres athleticsm and shot blocking and dre then can concentrate his defense soley on the center position.If you were to bench dre and start moose at center and smith at pf,then moose isnt as nearly mismatched on defense and smith still uses his defense and shot blocking to help makeup whatever moose is lacking.

[Clarity]

Great Post.

Hats off to Loyer for restoring order in our best player Monroe getting more touches.

18 & 11 over his last 5

barely 11 shots per game on the year up to 16 in the past 5, awesome.

[MrBigShot]

^That's one positive thing Loyer has brought. He's actually shot less than his career and season FT% average during that stretch as well. If he manages to improve his FT shooting this off season I could see him being an 18/10 guy on better efficiency/fewer shots than he's taking right now. He did shoot 74% his 2nd year, no reason why he can't get back to that.

[Invictus88]

I have to keep reminding myself that when I hear people say greg took 15 shots in a game that it really means he has scored within layup distance and really only takes 1-2 actual jump shots per game.I think moose gets enough touches,he just so happens to use those opertunities around the rim,which I think takes more from dre than what smooth does,and that goes back to having 2 centers playin up front, if people want dre to get those touches,then moose needs to be benched because if those 2 are playing together then greg really should be getting those touches because he has the better foot work which makes him better around the rim to get his shot then dre.
Thats what makes smith so much better at pf because if you put him next to dre,he matches dres athleticsm and shot blocking and dre then can concentrate his defense soley on the center position.If you were to bench dre and start moose at center and smith at pf,then moose isnt as nearly mismatched on defense and smith still uses his defense and shot blocking to help makeup whatever moose is lacking.

This is a fallacy. What needs to happen is that Drummond is forced the ball down low in post situations and Greg gets the ball further out of the post facing the basket. Greg can still drive the ball like he does now. That's what a PF does. He needs to be able to spot up and shoot the outside jumper more than he currently does. But that's where he needs to develop.

Smith is NOT a better option at PF than Monroe. He does shoot from the outside, true. But he doesn't make anything. And Smith is arguably worse at dribbling the ball than Monroe is. Defensively Smith is more athletic but doesn't give the effort. The net result is the same or worse with stretch 4s when he isn't motivated -- which is basically every game where he isn't guarding a marquee player and even some in which he is.

[Phenomenonsense]

I have to keep reminding myself that when I hear people say greg took 15 shots in a game that it really means he has scored within layup distance and really only takes 1-2 actual jump shots per game.I think moose gets enough touches,he just so happens to use those opertunities around the rim,which I think takes more from dre than what smooth does,and that goes back to having 2 centers playin up front, if people want dre to get those touches,then moose needs to be benched because if those 2 are playing together then greg really should be getting those touches because he has the better foot work which makes him better around the rim to get his shot then dre.
Thats what makes smith so much better at pf because if you put him next to dre,he matches dres athleticsm and shot blocking and dre then can concentrate his defense soley on the center position.If you were to bench dre and start moose at center and smith at pf,then moose isnt as nearly mismatched on defense and smith still uses his defense and shot blocking to help makeup whatever moose is lacking.

How in the flying **** do you blame Monroe for Smith's inefficiency? Are you fully **** mentally incapable of eating without assistance? Holy ****, I was going to explain to you how stupid you are until I realized you can't even spell opportunity. I won't waste my time, just know you should've been in remedial classes.

[Clarity]

I have to keep reminding myself that when I hear people say greg took 15 shots in a game that it really means he has scored within layup distance and really only takes 1-2 actual jump shots per game.I think moose gets enough touches,he just so happens to use those opertunities around the rim,which I think takes more from dre than what smooth does,and that goes back to having 2 centers playin up front, if people want dre to get those touches,then moose needs to be benched because if those 2 are playing together then greg really should be getting those touches because he has the better foot work which makes him better around the rim to get his shot then dre.
Thats what makes smith so much better at pf because if you put him next to dre,he matches dres athleticsm and shot blocking and dre then can concentrate his defense soley on the center position.If you were to bench dre and start moose at center and smith at pf,then moose isnt as nearly mismatched on defense and smith still uses his defense and shot blocking to help makeup whatever moose is lacking.

This is a fallacy. What needs to happen is that Drummond is forced the ball down low in post situations and Greg gets the ball further out of the post facing the basket. Greg can still drive the ball like he does now. That's what a PF does. He needs to be able to spot up and shoot the outside jumper more than he currently does. But that's where he needs to develop.

Smith is NOT a better option at PF than Monroe. He does shoot from the outside, true. But he doesn't make anything. And Smith is arguably worse at dribbling the ball than Monroe is. Defensively Smith is more athletic but doesn't give the effort. The net result is the same or worse with stretch 4s when he isn't motivated -- which is basically every game where he isn't guarding a marquee player and even some in which he is.

Great Post

[kurtis48239]

I have to keep reminding myself that when I hear people say greg took 15 shots in a game that it really means he has scored within layup distance and really only takes 1-2 actual jump shots per game.I think moose gets enough touches,he just so happens to use those opertunities around the rim,which I think takes more from dre than what smooth does,and that goes back to having 2 centers playin up front, if people want dre to get those touches,then moose needs to be benched because if those 2 are playing together then greg really should be getting those touches because he has the better foot work which makes him better around the rim to get his shot then dre.
Thats what makes smith so much better at pf because if you put him next to dre,he matches dres athleticsm and shot blocking and dre then can concentrate his defense soley on the center position.If you were to bench dre and start moose at center and smith at pf,then moose isnt as nearly mismatched on defense and smith still uses his defense and shot blocking to help makeup whatever moose is lacking.

How in the flying **** do you blame Monroe for Smith's inefficiency? Are you fully **** mentally incapable of eating without assistance? Holy ****, I was going to explain to you how stupid you are until I realized you can't even spell opportunity. I won't waste my time, just know you should've been in remedial classes.

Hahaha ok little man,and where in all of that did I blame or say anything about monroe being the cause of smiths efficiency issues.You want to call someone out but your reading comprehension sucks.Seeing how I dont know who you are or have ever chatted with you and iam sure your like all the other posters who show up for a couple weeks and then drop off the face of the earth (without trolling it up some) I could care less to argue with you.I will add if you want to take this any further,you can pm me and we can meet someplace to discuss this further.

[Damon_3388]

You'll understand eventually.

I'm still not seeing any actually evidence disproving what I'm presenting to you.

[kurtis48239]

I have to keep reminding myself that when I hear people say greg took 15 shots in a game that it really means he has scored within layup distance and really only takes 1-2 actual jump shots per game.I think moose gets enough touches,he just so happens to use those opertunities around the rim,which I think takes more from dre than what smooth does,and that goes back to having 2 centers playin up front, if people want dre to get those touches,then moose needs to be benched because if those 2 are playing together then greg really should be getting those touches because he has the better foot work which makes him better around the rim to get his shot then dre.
Thats what makes smith so much better at pf because if you put him next to dre,he matches dres athleticsm and shot blocking and dre then can concentrate his defense soley on the center position.If you were to bench dre and start moose at center and smith at pf,then moose isnt as nearly mismatched on defense and smith still uses his defense and shot blocking to help makeup whatever moose is lacking.

This is a fallacy. What needs to happen is that Drummond is forced the ball down low in post situations and Greg gets the ball further out of the post facing the basket. Greg can still drive the ball like he does now. That's what a PF does. He needs to be able to spot up and shoot the outside jumper more than he currently does. But that's where he needs to develop.

Smith is NOT a better option at PF than Monroe. He does shoot from the outside, true. But he doesn't make anything. And Smith is arguably worse at dribbling the ball than Monroe is. Defensively Smith is more athletic but doesn't give the effort. The net result is the same or worse with stretch 4s when he isn't motivated -- which is basically every game where he isn't guarding a marquee player and even some in which he is.

I dont understand this part" What needs to happen is that Drummond is forced the ball down low in post situations and Greg gets the ball further out of the post facing the basket"are you telling me this needs to happen or are you suggesting this does happen.

The statement of josh being better next to dre isnt fallacy,Thats what the stats say,those 2 are in the top 6 in the league in shot blocking.

Honestly tho this has been beat to death and most of us who are on opposite sides of the josh/greg debate have come to an unspoken agreement,agree to disagree thing and some others go back and forth depending on who has a string of better games.I really dont want to get that whole arguement going either.

My whole point was,if you want dre to get more touches then you either bench moose or have him shoot more jumpers for dre to work with,the second isnt likely so what do you do to 2 centers who play around the rim and 1 of them wants or needs more touches.

I also dont agree on smith only having good games when he trys hard,the guy gives 100% every game,monroe is the one who will pout and shutdown when calls arent going his way or his match ups are having their way,their ball handling is about even.

[sc8581]

Great Post.

Hats off to Loyer for restoring order in our best player Monroe getting more touches.

18 & 11 over his last 5

barely 11 shots per game on the year up to 16 in the past 5, awesome.

18ppg on 16 shots?? We know he can rebound already but this last 5 games has proven the point I've been making all along, the more shots he takes the more inefficient he becomes. If he was giving us these numbers while hitting a few jumpers a game then it would be acceptable but that's not the case at all.