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Rating Bledsoe & Dragic by SportVU

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Rating Bledsoe & Dragic by SportVU 

Post#1 » by Lorenzomax7 » Tue Feb 25, 2014 7:34 am

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My conclusions:

1.1> As you can see in the picture below, Bledsoe was more of a PG and Dragic was more of a SG.
1.2> Bledsoe brought the ball up court more. And Dragic ran the floor better.

2> But under coach Hornacek, their aggression levels were basically the same. They were being used similarly.

3> Dragic was more efficient than Bledsoe on both parts (Scoring & Assisting) because he turned the ball over less and shoot the 3s more and better.

4> Bledsoe was a two-way player and Dragic had been focusing more on offense.

5> Bledsoe had some huge weaknesses in his game. His turnover rate was near-bottom level due to his inexperience and over-aggressiveness. His C&S ability and off-ball movement were marginal at best. But he also had some tremendous strengths. He was clutch as fxxk. He was also one of the best (team) defenders in this L.

6> Dragic had some acceptable weaknesses. His defensive game and rebounding ability were just mediocre. He was not as clutch as many Dragon fans thought he was. But he also had some significant strengths. He could shoot the ball by either Pull Up or C&S. He could play off the ball and move very well. It seems that he is the best passer in this Sun. He could dish the rock with less turnovers on a higher points-generating rate.

7> Despite their weaknesses, they were probably the best fit on the back-courts in this L, which might be even better than Curry/Thompson imo. This combo should fall in love with each other in every second if giving the chance to showcase their strengths, meanwhile, hide their weaknesses. I think the coaches had done a remarkable job for them and this team.

You can click the link to go to ENLARGE the picture below: LINK LINK LINK

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Re: Rating Bledsoe & Dragic by SportVU 

Post#2 » by Revived » Tue Feb 25, 2014 7:54 am

That's good stuff man. I had no idea Bledsoe was that much more clutch than Dragic.
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Re: Rating Bledsoe & Dragic by SportVU 

Post#3 » by Lorenzomax7 » Tue Feb 25, 2014 8:17 am

SF88 wrote:That's good stuff man. I had no idea Bledsoe was that much more clutch than Dragic.


They were rated by PIE @ NBA Stats in clutch time from 10/29/2013 to 2/2/2014.

http://stats.nba.com/leaguePlayerClutch.html?pageNo=1&rowsPerPage=25&MeasureType=Advanced&PerMode=PerGame&filters=GP*GE*10**TeamAbbr*E*PHX&DateFrom=10%2F29%2F2013&DateTo=02%2F02%2F2014&PlayerPosition=G&sortField=PIE&sortOrder=DES

Spoiler:
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Re: Rating Bledsoe & Dragic by SportVU 

Post#4 » by Blackification » Tue Feb 25, 2014 9:12 am

Its funny because Goran has like 20+ points at the half all the time and then defenses adjust and he doesn't do that well in the second half. Its interesting because I remember it happening even against that utah game a couple years back when he first got his career high. Bledsoe on the other hand would start off slow and score more in the second half and most of his points in the 4th. Its going to be amazing if they can mesh together we could literally flip a coin at half time and you go from crafty dragic to speedy bledsoe
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Re: Rating Bledsoe & Dragic by SportVU 

Post#5 » by Ring_Wanted » Tue Feb 25, 2014 9:47 am

Great job Lorenzomax7.

Many of your conclusions pass the eye test. Looking beyond the numbers, I'll say that Bledsoe's defense has not been as good as advertised, especially one on one. He has some stats going for him, like OppFG at the rim, and he plays well the passing lines, but has not distinguished himself here as the lockdown defender his reputation suggests.

Maybe that's what you mean by team defense, but there is room for improvement, and at some point this will have to be addressed if he is going to make huge money while sharing the backcourt with Goran going forward, above all because Goran can't defend quick PGs and gets easily stuck in screens. PJ Tucker certainly mitigates this problem, but no matter what Bledsoe will need to pick up his defense. For me, he gets somewhat a pass because he is a rookie starter, is carrying a bigger load on offense than what's he is used to and has not gotten his big contract yet, but still. Same goes for his turnover ratio, which seemed to improve a lot after the first games of the season. I noticed a tendency to make kinda lazy passes sometimes, but that's not unheard of from players so phisically gifted.

As for his offense, his points come mainly from one on one situations (with and without screen) and one man fast breaks (Goran is now in the discussion for this particular crown league wide). Catch and shoot is absolutely not his game, although his shooting touch has not been as sloppy as expected. His playmaking ability shines in the prototypical half court scheme, it is, pick and rolls, but overall is not on the same level as Goran's, even if the assist averages are practically the same.

About Goran, well, he has been so on fire that it is starting to seriously reach Steve Nash levels, in the sense that you just don't expect a miss no matter what kind of shot he takes. His driving ability is off the charts, and his finishing is stunning. He is even getting it done with his right hand, which is crazy because it was one of his most evident weaknesses, and it is gone now. Has a signature move, a step back jumper that has gotten automatic to the point that it surprises you if it touches anything other than net and that he uses even from 3. Speaking of which, he is on fire from beyond the arc too, but he is not a specialist so I wouldn't be surprised if he couldn't sustain the current rate. Not a great free throw shooter.

His passing vision and creativity is also outstanding (minor flaw: lobs), although he looks much more for his own. After all he is clearly the best player on the team and yet he displays perfect balance between creating for himself and for his teammates. Lethal in the pick and pop/roll. Rings a bell? All traits that applied to the master.

What he can't do is guarding these small, quick PGs above all if there is a hard screen, but does a solid job on the less explosive players, SGs included. At the very least he shows effort and chases his man down, unlike other defensively challenged stars. Also trends to have trouble when the defense traps him, because he picks up his dribble quickly (improving, and Bledsoe comes in extremely handy here). He is not unguardable (probably evidenced by clutch numbers that don't look great), but this year he will find his way over the course of a game no matter what you throw at him. Doesn't take games or plays off.

The great thing for Phoenix is that those two have all the tools (and hopefully the mindset) to become a perfect combo capable of dominating on offense against any team, while also having the ability to defend most of the opposite backcourts, at least in theory.

If I let myself go, I find myself believing the Suns have found real gold with this couple and have the foundation for a contender that is lacking just one dominant piece at PF/C/SF.
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Re: Rating Bledsoe & Dragic by SportVU 

Post#6 » by Wannabe MEP » Tue Feb 25, 2014 8:39 pm

Very cool stuff, Lorenzomax7.

RW, you spoke negatively about Bledsoe's defense; I feel like the numbers say his defense has been very good. Are you just talking about from the eye test? I'm much more concerned about his offense. For example...

Bledsoe-Dragic-Tucker-Frye-Plumlee
OffRtg -- 105.9
DefRtg -- 95.9

Dragic-Green-Tucker-Frye-Plumlee
OffRtg -- 112.1
DefRtg -- 106.3

That's a pretty dramatic difference: we've been A LOT better defensively with Bledsoe, but a lot better offensively with Green. Now, that's probably at least partially situational -- offenses tend to get slightly better throughout the season, for one thing.

I agree with Lorenzomax7's #5 from above: Bledsoe has to learn to cut down the turnovers, and he has to get better at C&S. He's less efficient than Dragic is with the ball, but he hurts our efficiency when Dragic has the ball because he's not a great off-ball shooter (like Green is). If he improved either of those things significantly, that would really make a huge difference for us.

I'm hoping his practice time now with limited mobility involves a ton of shooting practice, and that he's just a lot more confident in C&S situations going forward.
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Re: Rating Bledsoe & Dragic by SportVU 

Post#7 » by Ring_Wanted » Wed Feb 26, 2014 3:49 pm

Yes, I was talking about in game, not stats. I have not seen anything close to the outstanding one on one defense he is supposedly capable of, and I am not the only one who has noticed this.

That doesn't mean he can't have a positive impact overall on that end or that he sucks. After all, one on one is not the only kind of D, but I'll say tha comparing him to Gerald Green is not really useful for this discussion. Gerald, like Markieff for instance, is far from a relevant defender most of times.

Anyway, I have pointed out several times his oppositeFG% allowed under the rim, which is terrific (first in the L among players with at least 20 games and 20mpg), but those numbers won't tell you many things. When he played, I often found myself thinking how easily his man drove by him, and also thought it was mainly a matter of not giving it all there, which could be due to a need to manage his energy.

I am willing to buy the rookie starter syndrome, but if his defense is going to be a major factor as Goran's backcourt mate and when determining the size of his new contract, he needs to improve there (as well as turnovers), in my opinion.
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Re: Rating Bledsoe & Dragic by SportVU 

Post#8 » by Wannabe MEP » Wed Feb 26, 2014 5:15 pm

Ok, we obviously shouldn't put too much stock into this, but one of the most well-respected measures for overall defensive impact in advanced stats circles, Jeremias Engelmann's 2013-2014 defensive RAPM, currently has Bledsoe rating as the 6th "best" defender in the league. 8 of the top 10 are bigs, and Bledsoe is the only true guard in the top 10 (the other non-big is Andre Iguodala).

The rating includes data from the past three seasons, with the more recent data weighted higher.

1. Andre Iguodala +5.2
2. Kevin Garnett +4.4
3. Marc Gasol +4.4
4. Larry Sanders +4.0
5. Omer Asik +3.4
6. Eric Bledsoe +3.3
7. Dwight Howard +3.2
8. Tim Duncan +3.1
9. Ryan Hollins +3.1
10. Nene Hilario +3.0


Caveats

I do think there's a situational element here tied to the fact that he played most of his minutes earlier in the season, when offenses tend to be poorer. As offenses got better with time playing together, Suns' units -- now without Bledsoe -- played against improved offenses. RAPM probably unfairly gave Bledsoe too much credit for this difference.

Also, APM ratings are always going to be somewhat skewed by teammates and team roles. For example, if my consistent backup is my clone, my APM values will tend to zero. But if I'm particularly unique within my team, my numbers will spread much more.
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Re: Rating Bledsoe & Dragic by SportVU 

Post#9 » by Lorenzomax7 » Sat Mar 22, 2014 4:57 am

Stats don't lie...Eric Bledsoe is BACK and being clutch as f**k again!!! :0)
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Re: Rating Bledsoe & Dragic by SportVU 

Post#10 » by Revived » Sat Mar 22, 2014 5:39 am

This stuff is on point. Especially about Bledsoe's clutchness.
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Re: Rating Bledsoe & Dragic by SportVU 

Post#11 » by blabla » Sat Mar 22, 2014 12:51 pm

Los Soles wrote:For example, if my consistent backup is my clone, my APM values will tend to zero.

Nope

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