Developing vs Winning

[PetrieUnderstudy]

Last night against the Lakers in my opinion was a prime example of us losing a game because developing took precedence over winning. Either that or Coach Malone isn't as good of a coach as we had all hoped for.

Ben McLemore continues to be a pathetic basketball player and anyone that says otherwise knows nothing about basketball. I'm tired of hearing about how athletic (run fast/jump high) he is. This isn't track and field, it is basketball and he isn't a good basketball player and in my opinion never will be. Just like the previous regime we missed big time in this draft. Some may say I'm judging too early and give the kid time to develop. He is 21 not 18. His handle is a joke, his defensive awareness is non-existent, and for being a "good shooter" he is shooting 35% percent from the field and 31% from three.

Please someone explain to me what I'm not seeing in this guy. Orlando Johnson showed me more in 14 minutes last night than McLemore. He is soft. I say we cut our ties fast like we did with Robinson.

And why are "we" coddling him? These guys make too much money to be coddled. Malone says he cares about winning but why did he continue to play someone that was a detriment? Nearly 30 minutes, 0 points, 2 rebounds, 2 steals, 2 assists, and countless wide open shots for the opponent. And this isn't an isolated example. This is a reoccurring theme.

The front office has been aggressive and I appreciate ownerships willingness to spend but someone with half a brain needs to realize that McLemore is not the future and lets try to get some value this summer while we still can. Otherwise we'll be looking at another Jimmer situation where we can't even get a 2nd rounder and have to waive him.

[City of Trees]

You should rename this thread to "I hate McLemore"

[PetrieUnderstudy]

You should rename this thread to "I hate McLemore"

Hate is a strong word. I don't hate the guy personally. But his game is garbage. Ultimately what I care about is the success of the Kings.

[Silver Man]

So every rookie that struggles we should get rid of in their rookie year?

This is a solid receipt for success.

[element_88]

I think its unfair to judge McLemore this season, just think about the last good shooter the kings had, Peja, he wasn't very good his first season back in 98 and he had been playing in the euro-leagues for a while as well as winning an MVP with PAOK, but he turned out to be a pretty good player, a more recent example could be James Harden, who's rookie season wasn't the most spectacular.

I also think that McLemore played better when Vazquez, I felt like I saw more flashes of hope when he had a actual pass first point guard.

[PetrieUnderstudy]

So every rookie that struggles we get rid of in their rookie year?

This is a solid receipt for success.

Struggles is an understatement. I'm not a professional scout but I played some ball, am a season ticket holder, and watch almost every game on TV. So I'm not jumping to conclusions after one game. I've seen him enough to think "he doesn't have it". He'll tease with highlight dunks and a rare game when he hits threes when the Kings are down by 20 but that is it.

I don't really want to get rid of rookies but how about let's start drafting the right ones.

[SacSanity]

Watching McLemore play is beyond frustrating. Coach Malone may personally want to win, but from an organization standpoint this season has been lost and the goal is tanking. Last nights game especially was frustrating because it was vs. the Lakers and if we played any sort of defense that game we would have won. The worst part about McLemore is that he can't even make an open shot...

[pillwenney]

First of all, keep in mind this draft was pretty terrible. There aren't really that many players below Ben (or above) that are really that much better. It's been an awful, terrible draft.

Even Carter-Williams has put up big, but exactly efficient numbers. And that's fine, but it also reeks of a Reke-like situation where he looks good with the ball in his hands in his rookie season before teams figure him out.

So keep that in mind, and have some patience. Ben is old for a raw guy, but he still is actually raw. And like others said, let's not forget Peja had bad percentages his rookie year as well.

[Kings2013]

Ben has been terrible. Considering we thought we had a steal in the draft he has just been a tremendous letdown. I personally don't think he will be a player in the league and want the organization to continue to address the position. With that said, why the urgency on winning this year with a good draft looming?

[blind prophet]

He has shown little, but not enough time.

He ranks fifth in mpg for all rookies.

http://espn.go.com/nba/statistics/playe ... on/rookies

That means he has had a shot.

He is still young, and a freak of an athlete, if he was just an average athlete I'd call him a bust. But his athleticism is fantastic, and you can't teach that sort of thing, nor should you give up on it,

Looking like a long shot now, but the rewards can be fantastic.

So if this is what you see mid year next season then put a nail in the coffin, but too early, way too early with his athletic ability.

[SacKingZZZ]

That's a hard question to answer, I've stated this previously, the main question should be whether or not this team is at a stage where it can effectively develop a Ben McLemore. Whether he can get there or not doesn't matter if he can't get there here. Make no bones, McLemores potential is as a scorer. Moving forward, where are the shots coming from? Now, you could try and turn him into that defensive stopper you need on the wing, but that's like asking a hammer to do the job of a wrench. It's also probably asking him to squeeze all the talent and potential he does have in a tiny box, it's what you need but still below the capabilities of his talent. I don't ever see that as a good thing. When you have needs, you get need fillers. Plenty of players out there that can fit the bill.

Now, the word was they were looking for a pass first PG at the deadline. Getting rid of one of the super high usage players and supplanting them with BMac could change things, but as is, I don't see the point. Then comes the other part where you wonder if this team can waste 3 years developing guys when your star can bolt in 4. It's also not very common to develop guys when your cap is potentially stuffed from here on. There is a reason for that. If they develop, are you going to be able to even re-sign them?

I said it last summer and this summer is no different, they need to be aggressive. They kind of struck gold with Gay so it lessens the damage of the less than fruitful summer they did have, but there is no reset button unless you start at the top. I think that would be unwise to do that. They've already made more progress move wise to compete now, I say go all the way, no use sitting half way to your destination. They've also tried to trade assets in the form of players on the roster now, didn't work. The only assets they do have are probably youth and picks at this point. I think the road to travel is getting narrowed down and not by their own choice. Of course that's only if they can actually get something they need. Just no more stabs in the dark please. No what you're getting and why you're getting it.

[KF10]

He was touted as the next Ray Allen by many but how realistic is that? As every game passes, he looks more like Gerald Green than Ray Allen. That said, the only saving grace for keeping that "Ray Allen" tag is that his jumpshot looks absolutely perfect (and sooner or later, his shot will begin to fall) and the way he moves off the ball but more importantly, Ben has shown some of his slick passing distribution. Ray Allen in his early days was a complete guard not just a shooter/scorer. He had underrated skills in passing the ball. Ben is still far away of what Ray did in regards in passing/playmake but you can see that Ben isn't chop liver when he delivers a pass that many have not expected. I've been harsh on Ben (with good reason) but I give this guy the remaining games of this season and the whole offseason to see what he is really made of.

[PetrieUnderstudy]

First of all, keep in mind this draft was pretty terrible. There aren't really that many players below Ben (or above) that are really that much better. It's been an awful, terrible draft.

Even Carter-Williams has put up big, but exactly efficient numbers. And that's fine, but it also reeks of a Reke-like situation where he looks good with the ball in his hands in his rookie season before teams figure him out.

So keep that in mind, and have some patience. Ben is old for a raw guy, but he still is actually raw. And like others said, let's not forget Peja had bad percentages his rookie year as well.

I agree that the draft was terrible. Management should have looked at trading the pick with Thompson to get a proven starter. In fairness to management they took over so late in the process that they were scrambling. No excuses this summer.

It's not just about his percentages. If he was shooting 42% and 35% I'd say well maybe we can hope he becomes a better than average shooter at 2 guard. My concern is that he isn't good at other aspects of the game. Everyone complained about Jimmer's handle. Ben's is worse. He loses his guy on defense all the time. He can jump out of the gym but he doesn't rebound. I think part of the reason he won't ever amount to anything is his personality. He isn't tough and he truly isn't a good basketball player.

Raw is ridiculous. 7 footers are raw. A 6'5 shooting guard shouldn't be raw. I said it before and I'll say it again just because he can run fast and jump high doesn't mean he can play basketball. In high school and college those attributes can cover major holes in someone's game. These are the top basketball (and I emphasize basketball) players in the world. If professional sports were only about speed and jumping ability why don't we sign Usain Bolt and Javier Sotomayor (high jump world record holder) this summer to contracts.

[pillwenney]

First of all, keep in mind this draft was pretty terrible. There aren't really that many players below Ben (or above) that are really that much better. It's been an awful, terrible draft.

Even Carter-Williams has put up big, but exactly efficient numbers. And that's fine, but it also reeks of a Reke-like situation where he looks good with the ball in his hands in his rookie season before teams figure him out.

So keep that in mind, and have some patience. Ben is old for a raw guy, but he still is actually raw. And like others said, let's not forget Peja had bad percentages his rookie year as well.

I agree that the draft was terrible. Management should have looked at trading the pick with Thompson to get a proven starter. In fairness to management they took over so late in the process that they were scrambling. No excuses this summer.

It's not just about his percentages. If he was shooting 42% and 35% I'd say well maybe we can hope he becomes a better than average shooter at 2 guard. My concern is that he isn't good at other aspects of the game. Everyone complained about Jimmer's handle. Ben's is worse. He loses his guy on defense all the time. He can jump out of the gym but he doesn't rebound. I think part of the reason he won't ever amount to anything is his personality. He isn't tough and he truly isn't a good basketball player.

Raw is ridiculous. 7 footers are raw. A 6'5 shooting guard shouldn't be raw. I said it before and I'll say it again just because he can run fast and jump high doesn't mean he can play basketball. In high school and college those attributes can cover major holes in someone's game. These are the top basketball (and I emphasize basketball) players in the world. If professional sports were only about speed and jumping ability why don't we sign Usain Bolt and Javier Sotomayor (high jump world record holder) this summer to contracts.

Who knows if they would have even been able to? Regardless they probably wouldn't have, since they seem very high on Ben.

Criticism of his handle is lighter on Ben because he's less experienced than Jimmer was, and isn't a PG. Jimmer was a 4 year PG who couldn't get past any kind of pressure D his rookie year. That WAS a bigger deal. Ben will be primarily an off the ball player. That's how he has always been projected. He'll still need better handles than he has now of course, for limited ballhandling within the offense, and reacting to fast closeouts (which will happen when his shot starts falling), but there's a reason it's not as much of a concern.

His rebounding isn't really bad. It's not particularly great, but 4+ rebounds per 36 is okay enough for a SG--particularly a rookie. Not an asset but not a big detriment.

Defensively--well yeah, that's a problem, as it is for nearly every rookie ever.

And I think what's gone under the radar here is his passing. That has been surprisingly good. He doesn't get many assists because he doesn't penetrate much, but he has shown on several plays this year--enough to see a pattern--that he has pretty nice court vision and passing ability.


Look, I'm not saying he won't be a bust. Maybe he will be. But I do think we need to give him time before we write him off completely. He may not be 19, but he's, well, young for his age.

[PetrieUnderstudy]

We've blown 3 drafts in a row. Jimmer, Robinson, and now McLemore. Now only one (McLemore) has been under this management. I feel we've got some core pieces in place with Gay and Cousins (when he isn't a knucklehead). Isaiah would be a great 6th man and I like Acy and Evans for what they bring for the price. Williams is still young enough and has shown glimpses. McCallum is only a rookie and cheap as 2nd rounder. The three guys that need to go in order are Landry, McLemore, and Thompson. If we drop down in the draft like we normally do I'd say trade the pick. I agree with being more aggressive. Forget developing more guys. Let's start winning.

Trade McLemore to Bucks for John Henson

Trade 2014 1st round pick and Landry to Magic for Arron Afflalo

Renegotiate Rudy's contract 4 years $56 million

As much as I like Isaiah the Kings want more of a prototype PG. I could see them going after Kyle Lowry as free agent 4 years $36 million and letting Isaiah walk.

Kyle Lowry/Ray McCallum
Arron Afflalo/Jason Terry/Orlando Johnson
Rudy Gay/Derrick Williams/Travis Outlaw
John Henson/Reggie Evans/Quincy Acy
DeMarcus Cousins/Jason Thompson

[Big_Cat]

Kyle Lowry/Ray McCallum
Arron Afflalo/Jason Terry/Orlando Johnson
Rudy Gay/Derrick Williams/Travis Outlaw
John Henson/Reggie Evans/Quincy Acy
DeMarcus Cousins/Jason Thompson

Cool. Great job. You built a team that'll barely make the playoffs and will get swept by OKC every year.

[SacKingZZZ]

He was touted as the next Ray Allen by many but how realistic is that? As every game passes, he looks more like Gerald Green than Ray Allen. That said, the only saving grace for keeping that "Ray Allen" tag is that his jumpshot looks absolutely perfect (and sooner or later, his shot will begin to fall) and the way he moves off the ball but more importantly, Ben has shown some of his slick passing distribution. Ray Allen in his early days was a complete guard not just a shooter/scorer. He had underrated skills in passing the ball. Ben is still far away of what Ray did in regards in passing/playmake but you can see that Ben isn't chop liver when he delivers a pass that many have not expected. I've been harsh on Ben (with good reason) but I give this guy the remaining games of this season and the whole offseason to see what he is really made of.

This is pretty much where I'm at too, but you can't wait too long and certainly labeling him as untouchable if you can improve yourselves in the areas you need it is still absurd in my view.

Allen was much more polished and had a lot more experience coming out of college. Even in college McLemore never had a chance to really develop his offensive skills within a game. Kansas is a terrible school to go to if you want to show what you can do as a guard and really develop. I saw plenty of footage of Xavier Henry in high school, that kid had some big time potential. Wiggins right now is learning the same thing. The only guard I remember having a refined skill set that did well relative to expectation was Brandon Rush and that was as a defensive role player. Now that could be they just suck at scouting talent, they just can't really showcase the talent they scout, or the talent scouted just sucked. When you look at draft history, 9 times out of 10, don't draft a Kansas product super high.

[SacKingZZZ]

Kyle Lowry/Ray McCallum
Arron Afflalo/Jason Terry/Orlando Johnson
Rudy Gay/Derrick Williams/Travis Outlaw
John Henson/Reggie Evans/Quincy Acy
DeMarcus Cousins/Jason Thompson

Cool. Great job. You built a team that'll barely make the playoffs and will get swept by OKC every year.

Too many mouths to feed probably, but on paper I see a team that can pass, defend on the wing, defend in the post, defend weakside, make plays off the dribble, has plenty of size, can defend the pick and roll., has legit go to options offensively, can shoot, play in the post from more than one position, etc. etc. etc. No, I'd be more than comfortable going into battle with that. If you can't win with that then Cousins didn't live up to his potential, if that doesn't happen you might as well throw in the towel as it is. What are you looking for a team to do anyway?

[KF10]

This is pretty much where I'm at too, but you can't wait too long and certainly labeling him as untouchable if you can improve yourselves in the areas you need it is still absurd in my view.

Allen was much more polished and had a lot more experience coming out of college. Even in college McLemore never had a chance to really develop his offensive skills within a game. Kansas is a terrible school to go to if you want to show what you can do as a guard and really develop. I saw plenty of footage of Xavier Henry in high school, that kid had some big time potential. Wiggins right now is learning the same thing. The only guard I remember having a refined skill set that did well relative to expectation was Brandon Rush and that was as a defensive role player. Now that could be they just suck at scouting talent, they just can't really showcase the talent they scout, or the talent scouted just sucked. When you look at draft history, 9 times out of 10, don't draft a Kansas product super high.

McLemore is a work in progress. He is definitely a late bloomer. Many people don't remember that McLemore played as an undersized PF until his senior year in HS. So, in reality, dude has many things to work upon in his game to transition himself as a legit SG. It is evident of this year's play, all of his SG attributes are not even at average-level. He really looks like a guy that has no idea how to play as a SG other than the occasional off the ball movement and cuts to the basket to score. I really believe this upcoming off season is going to be HUGE in Ben's development. If he really put his mind and effort to work on the things he needs to be improved upon (basically everything lol), he can come back as a whole new player next season imo.

[Kings2013]

This is pretty much where I'm at too, but you can't wait too long and certainly labeling him as untouchable if you can improve yourselves in the areas you need it is still absurd in my view.

Allen was much more polished and had a lot more experience coming out of college. Even in college McLemore never had a chance to really develop his offensive skills within a game. Kansas is a terrible school to go to if you want to show what you can do as a guard and really develop. I saw plenty of footage of Xavier Henry in high school, that kid had some big time potential. Wiggins right now is learning the same thing. The only guard I remember having a refined skill set that did well relative to expectation was Brandon Rush and that was as a defensive role player. Now that could be they just suck at scouting talent, they just can't really showcase the talent they scout, or the talent scouted just sucked. When you look at draft history, 9 times out of 10, don't draft a Kansas product super high.

McLemore is a work in progress. He is definitely a late bloomer. Many people don't remember that McLemore played as an undersized PF until his senior year in HS. So, in reality, dude has many things to work upon in his game to transition himself as a legit SG. It is evident of this year's play, all of his SG attributes are not even at average-level. He really looks like a guy that has no idea how to play as a SG other than the occasional off the ball movement and cuts to the basket to score. I really believe this upcoming off season is going to be HUGE in Ben's development. If he really put his mind and effort to work on the things he needs to be improved upon (basically everything lol), he can come back as a whole new player next season imo.

As a fan I personally wouldn't want the franchise to count on it if he continues on this pace. A lot of vets on the team who want to compete this coming year. IMO I would like them to address that position and if Ben develops eventually off the bench he does.