Knicks-Related Trade "THOUGHTS" Thread - Part Deux

[Boarder Patrol]

Kyrie Irving really wants out. (Young & has great chemistry with Melo)

Rajon Rondo is gonna be dealt & is expiring, so holds the upper hands vs. his team. (Melo's friend & Melo would love to addition)

Russell Westbrook, like I said weeks ago (s/o THUGGER) isn't that 2nd player Durant needs next to him at this point. 0-3 since his return. (maybe acquiring him in a 3 way with 1 of the players listed above)

1 of these 3 needs to be a Knick come next season, with Melo.

We don't have nearly enough assets to acquire any of these guys

[SuperflyKnick]

And wat are we going to offer boston during the draft our lottery pick ? Wait we don't have 1

I dont know. However, the Knicks do not need to concern themselves with being a playoff team in 2014. They need to make deals to moves salary and get back trade assets.

Rondo is not a max level player. The 5th year wont make a difference if the Knicks are willing to pay in 4 years what Boston is offering in 5.

What are you talking about dude ? Majority of our roster is going to be expiring in 2014. You are not going to get assets back unless you move them for longer contracts. For example in order to get Rondo you will need to take on the extra year of Gerald Wallace, Jeff green, Keith bogans along with giving them Hardaway, Shumpert, future 1st rd pks. That kills all our salary cap in 2015. So why not keep the few assets we have and try to sign rondo ourright in 2015

[R-DAWG]

Melo sign and trade option with the Wizards:

Melo for Otto Porter Jr, Martell Webster (flipped to a 3rd team) and Andre Miller along with 3 1st rd picks (16, 18, 20)

Melo sign and trade option with the Bulls
Melo for Boozer, Mirotic, Rights to 1 of CHI's 2014 picks, CHI's 2015 pick and the SAC pick from the Deng trade, turing into CHI's pick if pick is not conveyed by 2017, top 10 protected declining to top 5 by 2020.

Melo/Chandler option with Boston:
Melo and Chandler to the Celtics in exchange for the rights to their 2014 lotto pick, brooklyn's pick in 2016 and 2018, LAC's 2015 1st rd pick, Boston's 2015 pick, Jeff Green, Brandon Bass, Keith Bogans.

Just throwing around some option. In all 3 situations the teams acquiring Melo benefit from a sign and trade. For Washington, they stay over the cap and retain the bird rights to Gortat, Booker, Seraphin, and Ariza as well as the full mid level and bi annual to fill out the roster.
Chicago is able to hold onto Gibson and use the full mid level - as well as dump the contract of Carlos Boozer
Boston expands the deal to add Chandler - they cash out their assets on Melo and Chandler to put with Rondo. Assuming Rondo is healthy and they fill in the roster they have a 3-5 year run with that core.

For the Knicks - it's tough to accept losing a talent like Carmelo, the organization is in such bad shape. The best move might be cashing in this chip into multiple chips that could be used to build a real contender here.

[dakomish23]

Doesn't matter if we get Durant or Lebron on this team. As long as that guy is GM and that guy is coaching, we will fall short of a title.

To be fair lets give mills a chance , he hasn't really got a lot to work with... Woodson on the other hand

ok that might be true. Teams had discussions of Jack & Thorton but folks avoided Felton & JR like they had leprosy. Some have mentioned the stretch provision which Alan Hahn mentioned time and again last summer as a good option for Amare's contract. One can hope Mills utilizes immediately on July 1st. He won't. JR is a Dolan favorite. More likely Felton will be sent somewhere with the expiring Chandler (really our only good asset).

he'll have his chance this year. Pacers sent an expiring contract and a 2nd rd pick to get Turner who is also an expiring. Cleveland sent an expiring and picks to get Deng. Amare in theory could be a major trade chip for a team who's looking to go nuts in 2015. What will we get back in return? IDK.

I do know that Mills was ready to send another 1st + Shump for Lowry, and Dolan of all folks had to turn it down. The fact that he didn't go after any PG that was a FA or that was cut tells me he doesn't realize what this team needs. So until he proves otherwise I got ZERO hope no matter how much cap space we have.

[Meat]

Doesn't matter if we get Durant or Lebron on this team. As long as that guy is GM and that guy is coaching, we will fall short of a title.

To be fair lets give mills a chance , he hasn't really got a lot to work with... Woodson on the other hand

ok that might be true. Teams had discussions of Jack & Thorton but folks avoided Felton & JR like they had leprosy. Some have mentioned the stretch provision which Alan Hahn mentioned time and again last summer as a good option for Amare's contract. One can hope Mills utilizes immediately on July 1st. He won't. JR is a Dolan favorite. More likely Felton will be sent somewhere with the expiring Chandler (really our only good asset).

he'll have his chance this year. Pacers sent an expiring contract and a 2nd rd pick to get Turner who is also an expiring. Cleveland sent an expiring and picks to get Deng. Amare in theory could be a major trade chip for a team who's looking to go nuts in 2015. What will we get back in return? IDK.

I do know that Mills was ready to send another 1st + Shump for Lowry, and Dolan of all folks had to turn it down. The fact that he didn't go after any PG that was a FA or that was cut tells me he doesn't realize what this team needs. So until he proves otherwise I got ZERO hope no matter how much cap space we have.

the fact that you think the lowry trade was a good idea in the long run or that expiring contracts mean anything means you have ZERO idea what's good for the knicks

[jc23]

Melo sign and trade option with the Bulls
Melo for Boozer, Mirotic, Rights to 1 of CHI's 2014 picks, CHI's 2015 pick and the SAC pick from the Deng trade, turing into CHI's pick if pick is not conveyed by 2017, top 10 protected declining to top 5 by 2020.

You wouldnt be able to bring over Mirotic next season since you wont have an mle or capspace to offer. So he would come over the summer of 2015.

Which will probably work out better since ny will be in tank mode anyway if they trade melo.

But in 2015 you could have

-Mirotic (would be a top 5 lottery pick in "this years" draft)
-ny lottery pick
-tons of capspace (enough for 2 of Rondo, Irving, Hibbert, Love or Aldridge)
-Chi 2015 pick (if you leave them their pick in 14 and instead take the cha pick)
-Possible Sac pick
-thj

--only negative will be still having felton and jr, but they are expiring that year so who knows

ny is actually good at drafting so i dont understand when people just want to let melo walk for nothing.

[melo mvp 15]

And wat are we going to offer boston during the draft our lottery pick ? Wait we don't have 1

I dont know. However, the Knicks do not need to concern themselves with being a playoff team in 2014. They need to make deals to moves salary and get back trade assets.

Rondo is not a max level player. The 5th year wont make a difference if the Knicks are willing to pay in 4 years what Boston is offering in 5.

It's really one or the other. The only ways we're getting assets is by taking back a bad contract with them (for one of our expirings) or trading Tyson, Tim, or Shumpert. And because of how poorly JR and Ray have played (the only two players we should look at moving to clear 2015 space), we'd probably have to include an asset to move their salaries.

Honestly as much as I hate to say it... we should've traded Tyson. His value is lower now that he's only got a year left and his play has declined (especially defensively). No team is gonna give up a lot for a guy that can bolt in a year. If we could still trade him on draft night for a 2014 top 15 pick or cheap younger player (plus filler) without taking on 2015 salary... we should. I'd keep Tyson if we could get Rondo before the start of next season (which isn't as crazy as you'd think)... but I also think any good offer would include Tyson going to a third team for assets to send to Boston.

[melo mvp 15]

Honestly looking forward, the ideal somewhat feasible plan would be:

-Fire Woodson. Ideal replacement: Thibs or Stan Van Gundy. The drop off after those is pretty drastic IMO.
-Hire a GM to work under Mills. I actually see some value in what Mills brings... but I think we sorely need a true GM that knows the basketball side (opposed to Mills' business approach). This could be Houston or Warkentein, but I think it'd be wise to bring an outside candidate. There's also the option of bring JVG or Phil Jackson in to take Mills' job, but even with one of them I'd like a GM that can get creative with trades, negotiations, etc.
-Obviously re-sign Melo. Ideally the first two years would be around $14-16 mil (which is asking for a big pay cut), then the max possible raises for the last few years.

Now after this point it depends on what we're able to do on the trade market. Obviously our assets aren't that great, but with expirings, a 2018 first, and Tim/Shump... we're in prime position for Rondo IF HE FORCES HIS WAY HERE. Honestly if he says he'd consider going somewhere like Houston, we're basically out of the running unless Morey gets stingy or arrogant. If Rondo wants out, we can offer Boston the jump start they'd need on rebuilding by clearing their books of Green and/or Wallace for our expirings. If push comes to shove, Tyson could be swapped to a third team for another asset to send to Boston (that means we have to take back less worse contracts IMO).

So ideally we can work out something like Shumpert, Amar'e, Felton, 2018 first for Rondo, Wallace, Green. This kills 2015 cap space. But it's actually by far the best option because it means we could do all of these:
A) we could re-sign Tyson (and if Shump stays out of the deal, then you could re-sign him)
B) use Bargnani's expiring contract to trade for a better player on a longer contract (Josh Smith? Eric Gordon? Ilyasova? Evans? Mayo? Carl Landry? Jason Thompson?) OR take back an equally bad player on a bad contract with a pick
C) use the full tax payer's MLE on a player (Marion? Butler? Granger?) instead of limiting ourselves to the 1 year, $3 mil offer

Realistically, it costs Tyson, Hardaway, Amar'e and the 2018 first. Which is a huge difference because Tyson and Tim's roles/value will be very hard to replace with our situation after that trader (no capspace for a while, no picks, no young players). Finding a replacement starting center would be tough, but I think it'd be even harder to stomach losing Tim when he'd be so perfect (and cheap) next to Melo and Rondo.

[BullsFTW]

Assuming Melo wants to go to Chicago.

Bulls Get: Carmelo Anthony
Knicks Get: Carlos Boozer + CHA Pick + SAC Pick + CHI 2016 Pick (Top 10 Protected) + DAL 2015 Pick (Top 20 Protected)
Mavs Get: Tyson Chandler

[R-DAWG]

Assuming Melo wants to go to Chicago.

Bulls Get: Carmelo Anthony
Knicks Get: Carlos Boozer + CHA Pick + SAC Pick + CHI 2016 Pick (Top 10 Protected) + DAL 2015 Pick (Top 20 Protected)
Mavs Get: Tyson Chandler

Mavs can't trade their 2015 pick and are not needed in this. But the base of the deal - Melo for 3 picks and Boozer - is solid. Needs Mitotic or another pick to get it done.

[R-DAWG]

And wat are we going to offer boston during the draft our lottery pick ? Wait we don't have 1

I dont know. However, the Knicks do not need to concern themselves with being a playoff team in 2014. They need to make deals to moves salary and get back trade assets.

Rondo is not a max level player. The 5th year wont make a difference if the Knicks are willing to pay in 4 years what Boston is offering in 5.

It's really one or the other. The only ways we're getting assets is by taking back a bad contract with them (for one of our expirings) or trading Tyson, Tim, or Shumpert. And because of how poorly JR and Ray have played (the only two players we should look at moving to clear 2015 space), we'd probably have to include an asset to move their salaries.

Honestly as much as I hate to say it... we should've traded Tyson. His value is lower now that he's only got a year left and his play has declined (especially defensively). No team is gonna give up a lot for a guy that can bolt in a year. If we could still trade him on draft night for a 2014 top 15 pick or cheap younger player (plus filler) without taking on 2015 salary... we should. I'd keep Tyson if we could get Rondo before the start of next season (which isn't as crazy as you'd think)... but I also think any good offer would include Tyson going to a third team for assets to send to Boston.

The missed opportunity was with the Clippers last summer. Tyson and Shumpert for Bledsoe, Jordan, Bullock. Bledsoe was traded for Jared Dudley for crying out loud. But this is a dare to be great move. A calculated risk. Kind of reminds me of the Pacers trading Dale Davis after he made the all-star team for the first time for Jermaine O'Neal, who was a reserve player in Portland. Indiana was able to rebuild around O'Neal and was one of the better teams in the league before the fight.

Imagine how different the Knicks would be if they had a 25 year old 7 footer who has made huge strides and is becoming one of the better defensive 5's in the league and a 24 year old PG who looks like he has all-star potential. Sure, there is risk involved - mainly health with Bledsoe and weather or not Jordan would have improved without Doc Rivers. But it's a missed opportunity.

[twix2500]

I think there might be a chance that the Knicks can revisit trading for Bledsoe. Phoenix was not expecting Dragic to be playing so well and now have two young point guards. if not Bledoe than Dragic.

[phx#7]

I think there might be a chance that the Knicks can revisit trading for Bledsoe. Phoenix was not expecting Dragic to be playing so well and now have two young point guards. if not Bledoe than Dragic.

Suns always planned to play the 2 together. Even now with Bledsoe out Dragic plays off the ball for stretches when he shares the court with Ish Smith.

Knicks also don't really have any pieces the Suns would be interested in, plus the Knicks are over the apron so they can't do a S&T.

[twix2500]

I think there might be a chance that the Knicks can revisit trading for Bledsoe. Phoenix was not expecting Dragic to be playing so well and now have two young point guards. if not Bledoe than Dragic.

Suns always planned to play the 2 together. Even now with Bledsoe out Dragic plays off the ball for stretches when he shares the court with Ish Smith.

Knicks also don't really have any pieces the Suns would be interested in, plus the Knicks are over the apron so they can't do a S&T.

Yeah they are doing so to stack talent, but believe me thats not ideal. Right now the Suns are not worried about plugging players into a position, they just want talent. Will it be easy no, but the Knicks can sit there and say it cant happen and then all of a sudden a deal goes down and the Knicks fans sitting their saying we could of done that.

[MrSparkle]

Amare, Felton, Shumpert, Hardaway -> Eric Gordon, Tyreke Evans

[NBA Fan 1234]

I think there might be a chance that the Knicks can revisit trading for Bledsoe. Phoenix was not expecting Dragic to be playing so well and now have two young point guards. if not Bledoe than Dragic.

Suns always planned to play the 2 together. Even now with Bledsoe out Dragic plays off the ball for stretches when he shares the court with Ish Smith.

Knicks also don't really have any pieces the Suns would be interested in, plus the Knicks are over the apron so they can't do a S&T.

Yeah they are doing so to stack talent, but believe me thats not ideal. Right now the Suns are not worried about plugging players into a position, they just want talent. Will it be easy no, but the Knicks can sit there and say it cant happen and then all of a sudden a deal goes down and the Knicks fans sitting their saying we could of done that.

Except now that the league has seen just how good each one is, the asking price is going to be high IF they do decide to trade them -- something I don't see happening.

[melo mvp 15]

I dont know. However, the Knicks do not need to concern themselves with being a playoff team in 2014. They need to make deals to moves salary and get back trade assets.

Rondo is not a max level player. The 5th year wont make a difference if the Knicks are willing to pay in 4 years what Boston is offering in 5.

It's really one or the other. The only ways we're getting assets is by taking back a bad contract with them (for one of our expirings) or trading Tyson, Tim, or Shumpert. And because of how poorly JR and Ray have played (the only two players we should look at moving to clear 2015 space), we'd probably have to include an asset to move their salaries.

Honestly as much as I hate to say it... we should've traded Tyson. His value is lower now that he's only got a year left and his play has declined (especially defensively). No team is gonna give up a lot for a guy that can bolt in a year. If we could still trade him on draft night for a 2014 top 15 pick or cheap younger player (plus filler) without taking on 2015 salary... we should. I'd keep Tyson if we could get Rondo before the start of next season (which isn't as crazy as you'd think)... but I also think any good offer would include Tyson going to a third team for assets to send to Boston.

The missed opportunity was with the Clippers last summer. Tyson and Shumpert for Bledsoe, Jordan, Bullock. Bledsoe was traded for Jared Dudley for crying out loud. But this is a dare to be great move. A calculated risk. Kind of reminds me of the Pacers trading Dale Davis after he made the all-star team for the first time for Jermaine O'Neal, who was a reserve player in Portland. Indiana was able to rebuild around O'Neal and was one of the better teams in the league before the fight.

Imagine how different the Knicks would be if they had a 25 year old 7 footer who has made huge strides and is becoming one of the better defensive 5's in the league and a 24 year old PG who looks like he has all-star potential. Sure, there is risk involved - mainly health with Bledsoe and weather or not Jordan would have improved without Doc Rivers. But it's a missed opportunity.

The Clippers traded Bledsoe for Redick AND Dudley. Although, I do think they would've done Shump, Tyson for Bledsoe, Jordan... which is obviously frustrating because both of them seem to have increased in value where as Shump and Tyson have decreased.

[Mars_Blackmon]

It's really one or the other. The only ways we're getting assets is by taking back a bad contract with them (for one of our expirings) or trading Tyson, Tim, or Shumpert. And because of how poorly JR and Ray have played (the only two players we should look at moving to clear 2015 space), we'd probably have to include an asset to move their salaries.

Honestly as much as I hate to say it... we should've traded Tyson. His value is lower now that he's only got a year left and his play has declined (especially defensively). No team is gonna give up a lot for a guy that can bolt in a year. If we could still trade him on draft night for a 2014 top 15 pick or cheap younger player (plus filler) without taking on 2015 salary... we should. I'd keep Tyson if we could get Rondo before the start of next season (which isn't as crazy as you'd think)... but I also think any good offer would include Tyson going to a third team for assets to send to Boston.

The missed opportunity was with the Clippers last summer. Tyson and Shumpert for Bledsoe, Jordan, Bullock. Bledsoe was traded for Jared Dudley for crying out loud. But this is a dare to be great move. A calculated risk. Kind of reminds me of the Pacers trading Dale Davis after he made the all-star team for the first time for Jermaine O'Neal, who was a reserve player in Portland. Indiana was able to rebuild around O'Neal and was one of the better teams in the league before the fight.

Imagine how different the Knicks would be if they had a 25 year old 7 footer who has made huge strides and is becoming one of the better defensive 5's in the league and a 24 year old PG who looks like he has all-star potential. Sure, there is risk involved - mainly health with Bledsoe and weather or not Jordan would have improved without Doc Rivers. But it's a missed opportunity.

The Clippers traded Bledsoe for Redick AND Dudley. Although, I do think they would've done Shump, Tyson for Bledsoe, Jordan... which is obviously frustrating because both of them seem to have increased in value where as Shump and Tyson have decreased.

Suns wanted Shump when he was good

if last year we did

Knicks- Bledsoe
Suns- Shumpert, Butler
Bucks- Picks
Clippers- Redick, Dudley

Bledsoe would be a great running mate with Melo

[Pharmcat]

its amazing how much shump has fallen

hes barely a thrown in on trades now after the deadline

[R-DAWG]

I think there might be a chance that the Knicks can revisit trading for Bledsoe. Phoenix was not expecting Dragic to be playing so well and now have two young point guards. if not Bledoe than Dragic.

Suns always planned to play the 2 together. Even now with Bledsoe out Dragic plays off the ball for stretches when he shares the court with Ish Smith.

Knicks also don't really have any pieces the Suns would be interested in, plus the Knicks are over the apron so they can't do a S&T.

I could see the Suns being interested in Tyson Chandler. Not for Bledsoe but maybe for draft picks and Plumlee.