GT: Cats @ Thunder Sun Mar 2 7PM

[Liver_Pooty]

Biyombo had 3 blocks tonight and played solid defense. At CENTER. He is not a PF, and never will be. Thats the discussion.

[DY_nasty]

Biyombo had 3 blocks tonight and played solid defense. At CENTER. He is not a PF, and never will be. Thats the discussion.

He's more of a PF than Cody is.

And its not even a small sample size. Its as much of a sample size as the one that showed that Henderson had no business ever taking a 3.

The thing is, Cody being next to Jefferson doesn't provide as much as Biyombo would next to Jefferson. There's nothing that shows that Biyombo would shoot 20% like Cody is from that range and on top of that, Biyombo wouldn't be on nearly the same lonely island he is when he plays on the second unit. The second unit is much more perimeter oriented anyways so it only makes sense that Cody's skills would benefit those shooters more than Biyombo - who basically has the job of setting screens and standing in the paint when he's with those guys.

[Liver_Pooty]

Biyombo had 3 blocks tonight and played solid defense. At CENTER. He is not a PF, and never will be. Thats the discussion.

He's more of a PF than Cody is.

And its not even a small sample size. Its as much of a sample size as the one that showed that Henderson had no business ever taking a 3.

The thing is, Cody being next to Jefferson doesn't provide as much as Biyombo would next to Jefferson. There's nothing that shows that Biyombo would shoot 20% like Cody is from that range and on top of that, Biyombo wouldn't be on nearly the same lonely island he is when he plays on the second unit. The second unit is much more perimeter oriented anyways so it only makes sense that Cody's skills would benefit those shooters more than Biyombo - who basically has the job of setting screens and standing in the paint when he's with those guys.

McRoberts benefits Jefferson way more, as does Zeller mainly due to passing and ball movement. Zeller at times is the only one capable of a perfect post entry pass to Jefferson to where he can grab it and go straight into his move without pausing and having to recollect himself. Biyombo would struggle mightily as a PF. He is at his best at and around the rim getting garbage points, blocks, and being a rim protector. As far as Anthony Davis and Serge Ibaka as a rim protector at the PF position... They are just flat out miles better than Biyombo. So thats a bad comparison.

[DY_nasty]

Biyombo had 3 blocks tonight and played solid defense. At CENTER. He is not a PF, and never will be. Thats the discussion.

He's more of a PF than Cody is.

And its not even a small sample size. Its as much of a sample size as the one that showed that Henderson had no business ever taking a 3.

The thing is, Cody being next to Jefferson doesn't provide as much as Biyombo would next to Jefferson. There's nothing that shows that Biyombo would shoot 20% like Cody is from that range and on top of that, Biyombo wouldn't be on nearly the same lonely island he is when he plays on the second unit. The second unit is much more perimeter oriented anyways so it only makes sense that Cody's skills would benefit those shooters more than Biyombo - who basically has the job of setting screens and standing in the paint when he's with those guys.

McRoberts benefits Jefferson way more, as does Zeller mainly due to passing and ball movement. Zeller at times is the only one capable of a perfect post entry pass to Jefferson to where he can grab it and go straight into his move without pausing and having to recollect himself. Biyombo would struggle mightily as a PF. He is at his best at and around the rim getting garbage points, blocks, and being a rim protector. As far as Anthony Davis and Serge Ibaka as a rim protector at the PF position... They are just flat out miles better than Biyombo. So thats a bad comparison.

I never compared Biyombo to either of those guys.

And I've got nothing against McBob starting either. I just think that Biyombo should be paired with Jefferson. More than never.

And its not the PF's job to get the ball inside either. Our guards need to play better - but that's got nothing to do with our interior passing. Which Zeller is proven to suck at too btw. Biyombo's got the mobility to guard stretch 4s and he's probably our best PnR defender by far as well so I'm not sure why you're boxing him into rim duty.

The fact is that McBob is inconsistent defensively and Zeller is flatout bad at doing what we want him to do to compliment Al across the board. He can't hit the mid-range shot in any capacity when Al is doubled. He can't play weakside defense for him. He's not strong enough to fight for those boards with him. Everything that he's good at, everything that got him drafted, is the same thing that got Al paid. Let him get all the same plays that Al gets when he's on the second unit and let Biz play the role that Ben Wallace did for Rasheed.

[Liver_Pooty]

He's more of a PF than Cody is.

And its not even a small sample size. Its as much of a sample size as the one that showed that Henderson had no business ever taking a 3.

The thing is, Cody being next to Jefferson doesn't provide as much as Biyombo would next to Jefferson. There's nothing that shows that Biyombo would shoot 20% like Cody is from that range and on top of that, Biyombo wouldn't be on nearly the same lonely island he is when he plays on the second unit. The second unit is much more perimeter oriented anyways so it only makes sense that Cody's skills would benefit those shooters more than Biyombo - who basically has the job of setting screens and standing in the paint when he's with those guys.

McRoberts benefits Jefferson way more, as does Zeller mainly due to passing and ball movement. Zeller at times is the only one capable of a perfect post entry pass to Jefferson to where he can grab it and go straight into his move without pausing and having to recollect himself. Biyombo would struggle mightily as a PF. He is at his best at and around the rim getting garbage points, blocks, and being a rim protector. As far as Anthony Davis and Serge Ibaka as a rim protector at the PF position... They are just flat out miles better than Biyombo. So thats a bad comparison.

I never compared Biyombo to either of those guys.

And I've got nothing against McBob starting either. I just think that Biyombo should be paired with Jefferson. More than never.

And its not the PF's job to get the ball inside either. Our guards need to play better - but that's got nothing to do with our interior passing. Which Zeller is proven to suck at too btw. Biyombo's got the mobility to guard stretch 4s and he's probably our best PnR defender by far as well so I'm not sure why you're boxing him into rim duty.

The fact is that McBob is inconsistent defensively and Zeller is flatout bad at doing what we want him to do to compliment Al across the board. He can't hit the mid-range shot in any capacity when Al is doubled. He can't play weakside defense for him. He's not strong enough to fight for those boards with him. Everything that he's good at, everything that got him drafted, is the same thing that got Al paid. Let him get all the same plays that Al gets when he's on the second unit and let Biz play the role that Ben Wallace did for Rasheed.

McRoberts would be a better defender than Biyombo at the PF position. He moves laterally much better. Just because Biyombo can touch the moon jumping doesn't mean hes better suited as a PF defender.... He also at times lacks the IQ to play effectively on pick and rolls and "sniff" out rebounds. Biyombo will be just fine, but getting minutes at PF would probably just throw the team out of rhythm, and throw him out of rhythm as well. Its just a ridiculous idea to be honest.

[DY_nasty]

McRoberts would be a better defender than Biyombo at the PF position. He moves laterally much better. Just because Biyombo can touch the moon jumping doesn't mean hes better suited as a PF defender.... He also at times lacks the IQ to play effectively on pick and rolls and "sniff" out rebounds. Biyombo will be just fine, but getting minutes at PF would probably just throw the team out of rhythm, and throw him out of rhythm as well. Its just a ridiculous idea to be honest.

First off - Biyombo is probably the team's best rebounder by far and according to rebound rate, one of the better rebounders in the league. I don't know what you think "sniffing" rebounds is, but Biyombo is better it at.

McRoberts doesn't have the footspeed to cover the same ground. Hell, there are times when Clifford has Jefferson icing screen and rolls over McRoberts. He's quick, yeah, but he's not quick and strong in the way that it allows him to play solid, mobile defense on the more mobile bigs. Again - I'm not really arguing anything against McRoberts. I'm mostly saying that Biyombo is a better fit next to Al over Zeller.

Saying that him playing PF would throw the team out of rhythm makes no sense because his usage rate almost suggests that he gets less than 3 touches per game at times. Him going to PF next to Jefferson only means that the few touches that he does get will be met with even less attention. So, again, your complaint doesn't make sense.

I'm not sure what you're going off of or what your qualifiers are for a PF, but PF has always been Biyombo's natural position. The fact that he plays center for us is out of necessity and nothing else.

[Liver_Pooty]

McRoberts would be a better defender than Biyombo at the PF position. He moves laterally much better. Just because Biyombo can touch the moon jumping doesn't mean hes better suited as a PF defender.... He also at times lacks the IQ to play effectively on pick and rolls and "sniff" out rebounds. Biyombo will be just fine, but getting minutes at PF would probably just throw the team out of rhythm, and throw him out of rhythm as well. Its just a ridiculous idea to be honest.

First off - Biyombo is probably the team's best rebounder by far and according to rebound rate, one of the better rebounders in the league. I don't know what you think "sniffing" rebounds is, but Biyombo is better it at.

McRoberts doesn't have the footspeed to cover the same ground. Hell, there are times when Clifford has Jefferson icing screen and rolls over McRoberts. He's quick, yeah, but he's not quick and strong in the way that it allows him to play solid, mobile defense on the more mobile bigs. Again - I'm not really arguing anything against McRoberts. I'm mostly saying that Biyombo is a better fit next to Al over Zeller.

Saying that him playing PF would throw the team out of rhythm makes no sense because his usage rate almost suggests that he gets less than 3 touches per game at times. Him going to PF next to Jefferson only means that the few touches that he does get will be met with even less attention. So, again, your complaint doesn't make sense.

I'm not sure what you're going off of or what your qualifiers are for a PF, but PF has always been Biyombo's natural position. The fact that he plays center for us is out of necessity and nothing else.

I agree with some of your post, and you make some valid points. But in todays NBA its almost impossible not to have a player that can stretch the floor or provide ball movement. Biyombo does neither. Zeller is at least a better passer at the 4. I find putting Biyombo at the 4 almost as ridiculous as putting MKG at the 2 as some posters have mentioned.

[fatlever]

for the record, i dont think MKG at sg is ridiculous as long as he is on the floor with mcroberts and a pg. its not like we rely on hendo for extra ballhandling or passing duties. he certainly is capable of guarding most sgs.

[Liver_Pooty]

for the record, i dont think MKG at sg is ridiculous as long as he is on the floor with mcroberts and a pg. its not like we rely on hendo for extra ballhandling or passing duties. he certainly is capable of guarding most sgs.

Hes more than capable of guarding SG's, but dang we can't have a SG on the floor that cannot hit a 15 footer. MKG is way better off in the post scrounging around for rebounds. Regardless MKG has been disappointing of late.

[JDR720]

MKG at PF? that might work, if i remember right he did quite well at PF last year

[Eoghan]

It's a little late in the game to be getting Biyombo acclimated to playing the 4. It would only be feasible against teams with two posts like Memphis.

Zeller is very sucky for a guy getting major rotation minutes on a potential playoff team. Oh well.

[mrknowitall215]

That's two straight disappointing games where Kemba hasn't played well, and if he had Charlotte might've won. I expect this type of lackluster performance from Henderson, but not Kemba. He need to get it together

[mrknowitall215]

Anybody notice that the last few decent games Zeller has strung together that he hasn't made a single jump shot? How's that for a 'stretch 4'? Clifford need to let Zeller do what he's comfortable doing, and that's being a junkyard dog type of player

[DY_nasty]

The more I think about it... MKG at the 2 might be outstanding

too bad Cliff isn't all that creative or flexible in his lineups.

Anybody notice that the last few decent games Zeller has strung together that he hasn't made a single jump shot? How's that for a 'stretch 4'? Clifford need to let Zeller do what he's comfortable doing, and that's being a junkyard dog type of player

I've been saying this for weeks

He's not a stretch 4. He might never be.

[Liver_Pooty]

It's a little late in the game to be getting Biyombo acclimated to playing the 4. It would only be feasible against teams with two posts like Memphis.

Zeller is very sucky for a guy getting major rotation minutes on a potential playoff team. Oh well.

Is 17 minutes a game major minutes?

[Eoghan]

It's a little late in the game to be getting Biyombo acclimated to playing the 4. It would only be feasible against teams with two posts like Memphis.

Zeller is very sucky for a guy getting major rotation minutes on a potential playoff team. Oh well.

Is 17 minutes a game major minutes?

It is when a good chunk of it is with Al/against first units. 17 minutes makes my point for me, our first PF off the bench can't be played long enough to prevent McBob from getting worn down. Our depth is terrible, really.

[gehenherzog]

Kemba
Neal
Tolliver
McRoberts
Big Al

Should be the starting lineup

[Benjamin Linus]

That would be our best lineup offensively. The problem is they would be so bad defensively that it wouldn't even be worth the extra boost on offense. Plus with a defensive minded head coach like Clifford, there is no way he's rolling with that starting lineup.

I do think Hendo should be playing more next to Tolliver while MKG should be playing more alongside Neal.

[ball teacher]

for the record, i dont think MKG at sg is ridiculous as long as he is on the floor with mcroberts and a pg. its not like we rely on hendo for extra ballhandling or passing duties. he certainly is capable of guarding most sgs.

I agree with you, I think MKG is a little short for SF, but has the perfect size for a SG. Then we'd just have to hope Cliff can find a way to incorporate him in the offense