2013-14 MVP Discussion Thread Pt II

[Doctor MJ]

Has Durant supplanted LeBron?

I'll let you know in June.

You tease, you. At least tell us what you think at the moment!

ardee has mentioned (and I concur) that this is his "09 LeBron" season, and comparing those two seasons I'd still say LeBron did more with less.

It's crazy: if it comes down to LBJ vs. KD II and LBJ wins, that means Oden gets a ring before Durant. If I were Durant I'd lock myself in a room for a week if that happened

I'm inclined to say no, Durant hasn't truly supplanted LeBron. Over the course of the season we still aren't seeing Durant outperform LeBron's best standards, and I'm not going to believe LeBron's on the downswing until I see it when it matters.

However, that's clearly based on the assumption that "new Durant" is represented by this season rather than by January. Guys go on hot streaks that can last more than a month and then not happen again with regularity, so I'm not willing to pronounce January Durant a permanent fixture. If that ends up being what Durant can do over the course of a season though, that's most certainly GOAT level so it clearly surpasses LeBron.

Re: His '09 LeBron season. Yeah, make sense. We started seeing the analogy last year with the loss of Harden, and then even more so this year. Durant's had to be a more "do it all" type of player, which is what LeBron was his entire time in Cleveland.

[Doctor MJ]

Has Durant supplanted LeBron?

I'll let you know in June.

Durant's going to have to destroy lebron in June to surpass him and frankly that isn't happening.

What a weird way to put it. This is essentially are dialogue:

Me: If he's better than LeBron when it counts then I'll say he's better.
You: He'd need to be better than LeBron when it counts and that's UNPOSSIBLE!

Um, okay.

[kayess]

Has Durant supplanted LeBron?

I'll let you know in June.

You tease, you. At least tell us what you think at the moment!

ardee has mentioned (and I concur) that this is his "09 LeBron" season, and comparing those two seasons I'd still say LeBron did more with less.

It's crazy: if it comes down to LBJ vs. KD II and LBJ wins, that means Oden gets a ring before Durant. If I were Durant I'd lock myself in a room for a week if that happened

I'm inclined to say no, Durant hasn't truly supplanted LeBron. Over the course of the season we still aren't seeing Durant outperform LeBron's best standards, and I'm not going to believe LeBron's on the downswing until I see it when it matters.

However, that's clearly based on the assumption that "new Durant" is represented by this season rather than by January. Guys go on hot streaks that can last more than a month and then not happen again with regularity, so I'm not willing to pronounce January Durant a permanent fixture. If that ends up being what Durant can do over the course of a season though, that's most certainly GOAT level so it clearly surpasses LeBron.

Re: His '09 LeBron season. Yeah, make sense. We started seeing the analogy last year with the loss of Harden, and then even more so this year. Durant's had to be a more "do it all" type of player, which is what LeBron was his entire time in Cleveland.

I think that's what makes Durant's January even more impressive - sure he's had experience being that guy, but nowhere close to the experience LeBron's had in that role... and he STILL tore the league a new one. I don't think it's better than MJ's/LeBron's/Wade's best runs, but I think those were superior only by a hair.

Of course, because of how impressive/'unexpected' it was, it also makes me think it's just not something he can sustain over the course of a whole year.

I agree when you say that his absolute best still doesn't touch LeBron's absolute best - which is crazy when you think about how absurdly good Durant is - but it's just LeBron being LeBron I suppose.

I can't wait for the Finals.

[Fat]

I think Durant deserves it this year and i definitely see him winning it he's been great.

[nyk_buc]

FTR Doc, does this mean you think it's not that Durant's decisively supplanted LeBron as the best player on the planet, but rather ,a combination of LBJ's coasting, Durant's incredible stretch without Westbrook, among other things, leading to Durant's massive edge in NPI +/- and box-score stats?

Oh my goodness.

Maybe if it was a different scenario where you had no clear runaway top guy on the planet with many guys duking it out for that title, than Durant would make his case. But when you have a guy who has been hands down best on the planet for almost 6 years now with 4 MVPs and multiple Championships on his shoulders, no chance in hell some meaningless regular season games can change any of that..thats a damn disgrace.. big players show up in big games, so don't be sayin this stuff about early regular season games meaning anything when a guy has reigned at the top for a long time and is proven in every situation that actually matters.

Don't forget, when LeBron came into his own in 2009, he hadn't won anything yet as well.

I get the opposition here, but you don't have to have won anything previously in order to become the best.

That's true. But Lebron James is putting up 27/7/6 on a whopping 58% on just 17 shots a game. Since February he's shot over 60%.

Point is lebron hasn't slowed down at all for anyone to overtake him. Or Durant has to dominate Lebron enough to surpass him. And in the last matchup, Lebron individually out-skilled/schooled Durant.

But he did win an MVP in 09.

[nyk_buc]

Has Durant supplanted LeBron?

I'll let you know in June.

You tease, you. At least tell us what you think at the moment!

ardee has mentioned (and I concur) that this is his "09 LeBron" season, and comparing those two seasons I'd still say LeBron did more with less.

It's crazy: if it comes down to LBJ vs. KD II and LBJ wins, that means Oden gets a ring before Durant. If I were Durant I'd lock myself in a room for a week if that happened

I'm inclined to say no, Durant hasn't truly supplanted LeBron. Over the course of the season we still aren't seeing Durant outperform LeBron's best standards, and I'm not going to believe LeBron's on the downswing until I see it when it matters.

However, that's clearly based on the assumption that "new Durant" is represented by this season rather than by January. Guys go on hot streaks that can last more than a month and then not happen again with regularity, so I'm not willing to pronounce January Durant a permanent fixture. If that ends up being what Durant can do over the course of a season though, that's most certainly GOAT level so it clearly surpasses LeBron.

Re: His '09 LeBron season. Yeah, make sense. We started seeing the analogy last year with the loss of Harden, and then even more so this year. Durant's had to be a more "do it all" type of player, which is what LeBron was his entire time in Cleveland.

I hear Durant's January surpasses Lebron's best. Does that surpass Lebron's last february when he put up 30/8/8 on 64% fg?

Or what about the February he just posted on 31/8/7 on 58% fg?

But Durant has definitely approached Lebron's stratosphere. I wouldn't think that would happen until 3 years from now but Durant has surprised me, esp. with his overall game. Let's hope he improves. Durant's improvements will only make Lebron better, which makes the NBA better.

[NaturalThunder]

You tease, you. At least tell us what you think at the moment!

ardee has mentioned (and I concur) that this is his "09 LeBron" season, and comparing those two seasons I'd still say LeBron did more with less.

It's crazy: if it comes down to LBJ vs. KD II and LBJ wins, that means Oden gets a ring before Durant. If I were Durant I'd lock myself in a room for a week if that happened

I'm inclined to say no, Durant hasn't truly supplanted LeBron. Over the course of the season we still aren't seeing Durant outperform LeBron's best standards, and I'm not going to believe LeBron's on the downswing until I see it when it matters.

However, that's clearly based on the assumption that "new Durant" is represented by this season rather than by January. Guys go on hot streaks that can last more than a month and then not happen again with regularity, so I'm not willing to pronounce January Durant a permanent fixture. If that ends up being what Durant can do over the course of a season though, that's most certainly GOAT level so it clearly surpasses LeBron.

Re: His '09 LeBron season. Yeah, make sense. We started seeing the analogy last year with the loss of Harden, and then even more so this year. Durant's had to be a more "do it all" type of player, which is what LeBron was his entire time in Cleveland.

I hear Durant's January surpasses Lebron's best. Does that surpass Lebron's last february when he put up 30/8/8 on 64% fg?

Or what about the February he just posted on 31/8/7 on 58% fg?

But Durant has definitely approached Lebron's stratosphere. I wouldn't think that would happen until 3 years from now but Durant has surprised me, esp. with his overall game. Let's hope he improves. Durant's improvements will only make Lebron better, which makes the NBA better.

Don't get me wrong, LeBron has been great lately, but he only played 10 games in February this year. Durant played 16 in January. So, in that case, seems a little silly to me to only compare their monthly numbers since February is always a shortened month in terms of number of games due to the ASB.

[nyk_buc]

I'm inclined to say no, Durant hasn't truly supplanted LeBron. Over the course of the season we still aren't seeing Durant outperform LeBron's best standards, and I'm not going to believe LeBron's on the downswing until I see it when it matters.

However, that's clearly based on the assumption that "new Durant" is represented by this season rather than by January. Guys go on hot streaks that can last more than a month and then not happen again with regularity, so I'm not willing to pronounce January Durant a permanent fixture. If that ends up being what Durant can do over the course of a season though, that's most certainly GOAT level so it clearly surpasses LeBron.

Re: His '09 LeBron season. Yeah, make sense. We started seeing the analogy last year with the loss of Harden, and then even more so this year. Durant's had to be a more "do it all" type of player, which is what LeBron was his entire time in Cleveland.

I hear Durant's January surpasses Lebron's best. Does that surpass Lebron's last february when he put up 30/8/8 on 64% fg?

Or what about the February he just posted on 31/8/7 on 58% fg?

But Durant has definitely approached Lebron's stratosphere. I wouldn't think that would happen until 3 years from now but Durant has surprised me, esp. with his overall game. Let's hope he improves. Durant's improvements will only make Lebron better, which makes the NBA better.

Don't get me wrong, LeBron has been great lately, but he only played 10 games in February this year. Durant played 16 in January. So, in that case, seems a little silly to me to only compare their monthly numbers since February is always a shortened month in terms of number of games due to the ASB.

Outside of the point differential (which is largely due to Durant taking 3+ more shots a game), Lebron is right there with Durant in everything, and Durant is playing more minutes, while shooting 58% a game. And this is Durant's breakout year.

So really, when people say Durant potentially is "supplanting" Lebron, I just don't see it. Lebron is putting up 27/7/6 on 58% shooting and people aren't even surprised.

Don't get me wrong, this tells us Durant is approaching Lebron's stratosphere, but Lebron is doing this in his sleep.

[Doctor MJ]

I'm inclined to say no, Durant hasn't truly supplanted LeBron. Over the course of the season we still aren't seeing Durant outperform LeBron's best standards, and I'm not going to believe LeBron's on the downswing until I see it when it matters.

However, that's clearly based on the assumption that "new Durant" is represented by this season rather than by January. Guys go on hot streaks that can last more than a month and then not happen again with regularity, so I'm not willing to pronounce January Durant a permanent fixture. If that ends up being what Durant can do over the course of a season though, that's most certainly GOAT level so it clearly surpasses LeBron.

Re: His '09 LeBron season. Yeah, make sense. We started seeing the analogy last year with the loss of Harden, and then even more so this year. Durant's had to be a more "do it all" type of player, which is what LeBron was his entire time in Cleveland.

I hear Durant's January surpasses Lebron's best. Does that surpass Lebron's last february when he put up 30/8/8 on 64% fg?

Or what about the February he just posted on 31/8/7 on 58% fg?

But Durant has definitely approached Lebron's stratosphere. I wouldn't think that would happen until 3 years from now but Durant has surprised me, esp. with his overall game. Let's hope he improves. Durant's improvements will only make Lebron better, which makes the NBA better.

I didn't say it surpassed LeBron's best, I said that Durant's January surpasses GOAT levels because no one in history consistently played that well. I can see people thinking that's a bigger compliment than it is. I mean, I don't think it was as good a month as Kobe's hot flash in '06, and everyone here I think knows I'm relatively ambivalent about Kobe.

Will Durant improving make LeBron better? Possibly. We'll have to see. I think for now LeBron is clearly past the point where he cares enough about Durant to do whatever it takes to win the MVP. Clearly if they meet in the finals, LeBron will do all he can to beat Durant, so if Durant & OKC improves and LeBron has a next level, then we'll see it. That will be cool.

[theokie]

I'm inclined to say no, Durant hasn't truly supplanted LeBron. Over the course of the season we still aren't seeing Durant outperform LeBron's best standards, and I'm not going to believe LeBron's on the downswing until I see it when it matters.

However, that's clearly based on the assumption that "new Durant" is represented by this season rather than by January. Guys go on hot streaks that can last more than a month and then not happen again with regularity, so I'm not willing to pronounce January Durant a permanent fixture. If that ends up being what Durant can do over the course of a season though, that's most certainly GOAT level so it clearly surpasses LeBron.

Re: His '09 LeBron season. Yeah, make sense. We started seeing the analogy last year with the loss of Harden, and then even more so this year. Durant's had to be a more "do it all" type of player, which is what LeBron was his entire time in Cleveland.

I hear Durant's January surpasses Lebron's best. Does that surpass Lebron's last february when he put up 30/8/8 on 64% fg?

Or what about the February he just posted on 31/8/7 on 58% fg?

But Durant has definitely approached Lebron's stratosphere. I wouldn't think that would happen until 3 years from now but Durant has surprised me, esp. with his overall game. Let's hope he improves. Durant's improvements will only make Lebron better, which makes the NBA better.

I didn't say it surpassed LeBron's best, I said that Durant's January surpasses GOAT levels because no one in history consistently played that well. I can see people thinking that's a bigger compliment than it is. I mean, I don't think it was as good a month as Kobe's hot flash in '06, and everyone here I think knows I'm relatively ambivalent about Kobe.

Will Durant improving make LeBron better? Possibly. We'll have to see. I think for now LeBron is clearly past the point where he cares enough about Durant to do whatever it takes to win the MVP. Clearly if they meet in the finals, LeBron will do all he can to beat Durant, so if Durant & OKC improves and LeBron has a next level, then we'll see it. That will be cool.

It certainly is giving LeBron more motivation to play better and more aggressively. Both guys are indirectly making each other better players. LeBron is fully aware of what Durant is doing and vice versa, and its pushing the other to step their game up to another level. Its a joy to watch.

[Doctor MJ]

It certainly is giving LeBron more motivation to play better and more aggressively. Both guys are indirectly making each other better players. LeBron is fully aware of what Durant is doing and vice versa, and its pushing the other to step their game up to another level. Its a joy to watch.

And yet no one believes this is LeBron's best season. The motivation is real, but has anything actually been holding LeBron back in the past? I doubt it. Sure LeBron can keep working on his game from season to season, and having a rival helps with that grind, but that's probably it.

[SideshowBob]

This looks like a pretty strong year overall. Going beyond the top 2, there's a lot of guys on my POY radar:

Paul
Love
Dirk
Curry
Iggy
Griffin
Hibbert/George
Aldridge
Harden
Howard

All having some impressive seasons (and some going a bit under the radar as well). Dirk's playing close to his prime level and isn't really getting any traction at all. LAC's been the best team in the league in the 2014 calendar year (+8.9/100 possessions) with nearly a +9 offense and that's with Paul missing some significant time and Griffin looking fantastic. The 3-5 spots are going be tough going this year, and the 6-10 spots are much improved over last season IMO..

[ThePersianFreak]

Horrible game from KD. His PER will be 30.4 after this game.

[Joao Saraiva]

It certainly is giving LeBron more motivation to play better and more aggressively. Both guys are indirectly making each other better players. LeBron is fully aware of what Durant is doing and vice versa, and its pushing the other to step their game up to another level. Its a joy to watch.

And yet no one believes this is LeBron's best season. The motivation is real, but has anything actually been holding LeBron back in the past? I doubt it. Sure LeBron can keep working on his game from season to season, and having a rival helps with that grind, but that's probably it.

I think the motivation he's talking about was when Durant had that crazy and amazing streak, beating the Heat in the process. Since then LeBron seems to be playing at his surreal level, when he had been coasting since the begining of the season. The coasting is understandable tough, LeBron has played 3 straight NBA Finals and won a olympic gold medal.

Still I think LeBron might end up winning the MVP award again.

[QPR]

As long as OKC are winning then he is winning the MVP.

Top seed in a brutal West while missing Westbrook for 30 games is a narrative that is probably unpassable for anyone else, especially when you add in the 31/8/5 on 50/40/90. A hot streak from LeBron now really shouldn't be enough to make up the lead KD established without Westbrook, although with the fickleness of the medias you never know.

[Joao Saraiva]

Horrible game from KD. His PER will be 30.4 after this game.

LeBron is getting closer and closer... He has the media backing him up, he might end up with team record backing him up and closer in the statline than at some point it seemed like it was going to be. Maybe we'll see him getting his 5th MVP, as much as Jordan won in his career. From there on, about MVP awards the question will be if he can surpass Kareem.

[QPR]

Horrible game from KD. His PER will be 30.4 after this game.

LeBron is getting closer and closer... He has the media backing him up, he might end up with team record backing him up and closer in the statline than at some point it seemed like it was going to be. Maybe we'll see him getting his 5th MVP, as much as Jordan won in his career. From there on, about MVP awards the question will be if he can surpass Kareem.

To me all that LeBron is doing now is re-asserting that he is the best player in the world. Which is all well and good, but based on a single season MVP award Durant should still have a sizeable lead.

Over the last 2-3 weeks you can certainly say LeBron has been the most valuable, but over the whole season? I don't see it.

[RSCD3_]

Horrible game from KD. His PER will be 30.4 after this game.

LeBron is getting closer and closer... He has the media backing him up, he might end up with team record backing him up and closer in the statline than at some point it seemed like it was going to be. Maybe we'll see him getting his 5th MVP, as much as Jordan won in his career. From there on, about MVP awards the question will be if he can surpass Kareem.

To me all that LeBron is doing now is re-asserting that he is the best player in the world. Which is all well and good, but based on a single season MVP award Durant should still have a sizeable lead.

Over the last 2-3 weeks you can certainly say LeBron has been the most valuable, but over the whole season? I don't see it.

Well they were very close before that january stretch if lebron matches that streak and durant returns to what he was last year or maybe a little bit better they should be relatively equal in production

Sent from my SCH-I800 using RealGM Forums mobile app

[MisterHibachi]

This is a fun race.

[QPR]

LeBron is getting closer and closer... He has the media backing him up, he might end up with team record backing him up and closer in the statline than at some point it seemed like it was going to be. Maybe we'll see him getting his 5th MVP, as much as Jordan won in his career. From there on, about MVP awards the question will be if he can surpass Kareem.

To me all that LeBron is doing now is re-asserting that he is the best player in the world. Which is all well and good, but based on a single season MVP award Durant should still have a sizeable lead.

Over the last 2-3 weeks you can certainly say LeBron has been the most valuable, but over the whole season? I don't see it.

Well they were very close before that january stretch if lebron matches that streak and durant returns to what he was last year or maybe a little bit better they should be relatively equal in production

Sent from my SCH-I800 using RealGM Forums mobile app

That doesn't account for Durant doing it without Westbrook though. Wade shot 61% in February and Miami have been a .500 team without him.