Hawk and a Phoenix: Locked in Mortal Combat

[Jamaaliver]

And the Phoenix is kicking our a$$.

We gave up 40 points in the first quarter.
We gave up 79 points in the first half.

Mike Scott gets his first start of the season in lieu of an injured Paul Millsap.

We're shooting 50% from three point range.
But PHX is shooting 65% from three point range.

Both teams shooting well over 50% from the field overall, so apparently neither side is playing much defense.

Muscala has played 10 minutes thus far.
But Dennis has played only 2 minutes.

All through 2 and half quarters.

Jeff Hornacek is really earning that Coach of the Year award he's likely to win.

[Rip2137]

So this is my cheer for everyone game...its a weird way to watch sports. Sorry fellas but not rooting for the Hawks tonight...still good game. Muscala looks good, just lost on offense. Some shakey calls have taken Teague out the game, but Mack is taking up the slack just fine, really taking it to Ish Smith.

[Jamaaliver]

Hawks got the lead under ten in the 3rd, but have been unable to get much closer. Surprisingly, it's not offense, but defense we're struggling with tonight.

[parson]

Got home and forgot the game was on. Rats. And I missed Muscala, too?

How'd he look? The box score makes him look like a good rebounder. And 2 blocks? Were they any good?

[Rip2137]

The Suns bigs are basically guards with their skillsets and our front court could deal with that. Lou's d in particular was atrocious, eventually you have to know not to leave Green.

[Jamaaliver]

Gerald Green has most definitely been a late bloomer. He's resurrected his career in recent years; I believe he'd have benefited from going to college for a few years and coming into the league a more disciplined and more complete player. Kudos to him for pulling his career out of the pooper. I hope Jared Cunningham is able to do the same going forward as he never really got a shot in the pros.

We need a Center and defensive wings going forward. I'm so happy for what Korver has been able to achieve, but I look forward to the day when we can replace him in the starting lineup with a more versatile SG. I sure hope Bebe Nogueira turns out to be the defensive anchor at Center that we've needed for the past decade.

[Jamaaliver]

On a side note, I'm incredibly disappointed Dennis still isn't getting more PT. In a lost season, in a game that wasn't as close as the score....I'd really like to see the kid get more than 2 token minutes.

on record saying this is my only real concern going forward with Bud as Head Coach.

[Rip2137]

Jeff Teague, Shelvin Mack, Lou Williams, Kyle Korver. Look at all their numbers from last night. Who do you pull so Dennis can get more minutes?

[Rip2137]

Plus the score doesn't look closer than it was. It was a big lead built in the 2nd and the lead was taken away in the third. It was a 7 point game coming into the 4th.

It is time to start thinking that going forward with Teague for the next 3 years of his contract and signing Mack as his backup might be the best option. The other two young guys are just playing too well and at too affordable to start tinkering with one position where you are extremely sensitive solid.

[Jamaaliver]

It is time to start thinking that going forward with Teague for the next 3 years of his contract and signing Mack as his backup might be the best option. The other two young guys are just playing too well and at too affordable to start tinkering with one position where you are extremely sensitive solid.

Ironically, I came to the exact opposite conclusion. All three have been underwhelming, IMO.
And we should consider moving JT0 and Dennis while they each have some value. They've both had a rough 2014. None seem worthy of building up/around.

[diesel50]

On a side note, I'm incredibly disappointed Dennis still isn't getting more PT. In a lost season, in a game that wasn't as close as the score....I'd really like to see the kid get more than 2 token minutes.

on record saying this is my only real concern going forward with Bud as Head Coach.

We don't know Bud's side of the story, but it's not hard to guess. I would guess Maturity is a big part of the story. Bud may be happy with Teague/Mack. Both guys seems to play his offense well. It's just the Hawks fan base that want more out of Dennis and Bebe than what they are right now. Face facts, if it were some other team that you were interested in trading with and they had a PG who couldn't buy playing time in a losing season and a Defensive Big who was stuck over in Spain like a 2nd round pick... You wouldn't consider either one valuable. Right now, I have to go with what I'm seeing on the floor than to go with Hawks fans need to fill justified about the Joe Johnson trade.

[diesel50]

Ironically, I came to the exact opposite conclusion. All three have been underwhelming, IMO.
And we should consider moving JT0 and Dennis while they each have some value. They've both had a rough 2014. None seem worthy of building up/around.

I have to disagree with this position. You know from the beginning of the season that JT with a PNR player like Horf can be one of the best PGs in the game. Period. What we should do moving forward is find a SG who can create and a defensive Center. The players who need to move are Lou Williams and Paul Millsap. I like that Millsap is solid. But he's a sell high kind of guy right now. I would venture to say that with the right training, Mike Scott can be just as good and more versatile i.e. play the 3. Kyle Korver's only value is hitting the outside shot with consistency. What we miss is that 2 guard who can create for himself and make this offense work better. I like Gordon Hayward. Another guy who could fit us is Arron Afflalo. With Orlando looking to make Victor Oladipo into a household name and them having another year with a high pick, I suspect that they would consider strongly a Millsap for Afflalo trade. Sap could be the right Surrogate to usher in whatever Big they pickup in the lottery.. or help whatever Point Guard they get. You put Afflalo on our team and we go out and get a big like the polish hammer... and now we're talking.

[parson]

Has Schröder appeared ... ready ... to play major minutes at any time this year? To me, he's looked very tentative. The only time I remember him being assertive was when he punched Cousins.

When you consider that we're prepping Teague to either be our starter or (hopefully good) trade bait and when you consider that we're developing an extremely good backup PG in Mack (or a decent starter), why would we waste minutes on a kid who is not ready? Why hurt Schröder AND lose out on getting all we can from Teague and Mack?

I think Schröder got hit in the mouth with the enormity of the NBA and he's a little shell-shocked.

Maybe Teague will never have elite vision or the brilliance to become a superstar (but he can); he's definitely a prospect to give us 20pts/10a with superior defensive gifts.
Maybe Mack will never be a top-notch PG in the NBA (but he can); he's definitely a candidate to be our long-term backup PG. If he improves his jumper and decision-making, he could be good - 2 or 4 times an allstar kind of good.

I still love Schröder and believe the game will slow down for him. However, when he's in the game, he just doesn't do anything to indicate he's ready. Except for an occasional beautiful drive to the hoop, the light doesn't seem to have come on for him, yet.

[Rip2137]

I gotta admit, Millsap for affalo does sound interesting and we could probably get more assets as Millsap is the all star in the deal.

I personally don't see how you can call Teague underwhelming now. He was playing at an all star level, lost his pick and roll partner and had to find his roll. Inconsistent Teague was still 15-6 a night. He is on a monster tear right now, and considering he has injured the same ankle twice this year, its hard to say how much of that slump was him playing hurt.

[parson]

Rip, if we had a good Center to allow Horford to move, I might agree. I'm not ready to start Muscala and Nogueira just to get Afflalo.

[Rip2137]

Then start Antic who was extremely solid as a starter.

I am forever going to disagree on the Al Horford= PF discussion, but its clear they want that to happen. You don't draft and sign 5 centers in the off season to keep Horford there.

I'm with diesel though... Don't think you see too much drop off between Millsap and Scott with Scott getting major minutes. I like Millsap, I just think a upgrade at the 2 is more important.

[diesel50]

I gotta admit, Millsap for affalo does sound interesting and we could probably get more assets as Millsap is the all star in the deal.

I personally don't see how you can call Teague underwhelming now. He was playing at an all star level, lost his pick and roll partner and had to find his roll. Inconsistent Teague was still 15-6 a night. He is on a monster tear right now, and considering he has injured the same ankle twice this year, its hard to say how much of that slump was him playing hurt.

I have to throw in the Exactly Right there. I'm excited about the Hawks future.. FOR this one reason....

1. We are forced to tank.

Not because we suck... but because of injuries.
IMO though, Ferry is still Fing up:

How do you bring over Mike M and waste some of his eligibility on this wasted season.
Why not try to develop Dennis.
Don't rush Sap back and sit Teague a little more with the understanding that it's still his team.
Mike Scott could be our star Sf. His 30 on Melo spoke to me.

If we tank and get somebody like: Rodney Hood or Jerime Grant...I'm terribly Happy. Jabari Parker and Joel Embiid goes without saying.

[parson]

Then start Antic who was extremely solid as a starter.

I am forever going to disagree on the Al Horford= PF discussion, but its clear they want that to happen. You don't draft and sign 5 centers in the off season to keep Horford there.

I'm with diesel though... Don't think you see too much drop off between Millsap and Scott with Scott getting major minutes. I like Millsap, I just think a upgrade at the 2 is more important.

I see a huge dropoff defensively and in posting up. Scott is a more muscular Kyle Korver.

But I agree we're getting killed by the opposing teams' SGs. Even rank journeymen are having career games against us. I'm just not willing to move our defensive hole from the 2 to the 5.

[Rip2137]

There are significantly more dangerous players at the 2 then there are at the 5 in the NBA. To exploit a mismatch at the 5, the vast majority of teams would have to completely change what they do offensively which actually puts them at a disadvantage. To exploit a mismatch at the 2, significantly less shifting offensively is needed as this is a guard driven league anyway...most just need to change which guard is doing the "driving". We have a exploitable hole at the worse spot to be exploited. Kyles game means that opposing 2's will never be in foul trouble, which rally hurts.

Also, Millsap doesn't really post up. He is a face up PF. Defensively there would be a drop off but I still conted that Scott is better at ball denial and post up D. If they face him up...not pretty. That's coaching that can change some of his bad defensive habits.

[Jamaaliver]

Has Schröder appeared ... ready ... to play major minutes at any time this year? To me, he's looked very tentative.

Heck yeah he's looked tentative. And I think that is the result of a quick hook. Being barred from playing...at all...whenever a young guy makes a mistake will cause you to lose confidence, play tentatively and always be looking over your shoulder. I'm VERY disappointed with the way Bud has handled pretty much every young player on the team no named Mike Scott.

Jenkins, Cunningham, Dennis, Nunnally, Pittman. It's clear Budenholzer is playing to win...but we are 1-11 in our last dozen games. Dennis has not earned the right to start. But we're in the part of the season where we absolutely need to see what he can do in expanded minutes.

I still maintain that bringing in three young players at the same position was a mistake. A veteran backup PG like Andre Miller, Chauncey Billups, Derek Fisher could have helped both Teague and Dennis become better players.

Face facts, if it were some other team that you were interested in trading with and they had a PG who couldn't buy playing time in a losing season and a Defensive Big who was stuck over in Spain like a 2nd round pick... You wouldn't consider either one valuable.

I agree. And both Bud and Ferry share some blame in why two young players whose stock was sky high last summer have each plummeted in only a matter of months.

Maybe Mack...could be good - 2 or 4 times an allstar kind of good.

At this point, Dennis troubles are similar to the chicken or the egg debate:

Does Dennis not play because he isn't good enough...or is he not good enough because he never plays?