2013-14 MVP Discussion Thread Pt II

[Benedict_Boozer]

I think reality is KD will win unless OKC slides record wise too far behind MIA.

Lebron has a shot if he keeps up his current play + MIA finishes #1 overall record in the NBA by a decent margin, but odds of MIA putting together a streak like they did last year or even close to that is unlikely. They still have some tough games on their schedule.

[theokie]

While I mostly agree, shouldn't we consider Wade being unreliable for mostly all of the season?

Sure, thats a factor. Wade is having a down year, no doubt. But LeBron still had two-all stars on his team this season, Durant had zero. That carries more weight.

No, because it goes against his argument.

It's also interesting how "West significantly harder conference" is part of the story but "LeBron wipes the floor with Durant in their last encounter" isn't.

They split, thats all anyone is going to remember in April/May. Most people won't even recall which game came first. Collectively, in those two games, LeBron played slightly better. So ya, add it to the list of things to consider if it makes you feel better. I think its pretty minimal though and debatable, so thats why I didnt include it.
My list wasn't all inclusive, clearly there are other things that can be brought up.

They both played well in their first encounter and LeBron absolutely destroyed Durant in the second. "Collectively, LeBron played slightly better" is not an accurate description of the events.

If it'll matter or not I don't know, because if either team does really well or really bad and there's a noticeable difference in team record the one with the higher one will win. But if things are really tight in the end, I wouldn't be surprised if at least some of the voters have it in mind. I mean, it was their last encounter of the season, on national TV, and pretty brutal.

Combined stats.
Durant: 61 points, 15 rebonds, 8 assists, 4 steals, 9 turnovers.
FG: 22/45 - 49%. 3P: 5/15 - 33%. FT: 12/15 - 80%.
James: 67 points, 10 rebounds, 6 assists, 4 steals, 11 turnovers.
FG: 27/42 - 64%. 3P: 2/10 - 20%. FT 11/14 - 79%.

Total Score of the 2 games.
Miami - 198
OKC - 193

I don't think a rational voter will 1) look at 1 or 2 games in an 82 game season to determine his vote, or 2) remember anything more than who won, or 3) look at those stats and think that LeBron just obliterated Durant in the season series. Like I said above, I think LeBron did play better in the two games, but Its not going to matter that much. Their numbers were similar, each guy has a win, they split.

Durant outplayed LeBron in game 1, and OKC won. LeBron outplayed Durant in game 2, and Miami won. Did LeBron out play Durant more than Durant outplayed LeBron? Ya. But I don't think that it'll matter that much in the big scheme of things.

[MisterWestside]

<snip>

You or Doctor MJ can feel free to comment on this, but while mysticbb's analysis is certainly appreciated, I think Dirk's effect on that team has way more to do with what the Mavs didn't have than Nowitzki necessarily being a better player than Durant. 2011 Nowitzki was primarily a mid/high-post, perimeter hybrid, current Durant is primarily a slasher, perimeter hybrid. The Thunder can somewhat make up for what Durant brings to the table by playing some of their niche role players together in their lineups (the 7 foot floor spacer Ibaka, the slasher Jackson, and the shooters Lamb and Fisher), the 2011 Mavs did not feature anyone else on their roster who could hurt you in the mid/high post. Since a good part of their offense was predicated on Nowitzki posting up and drawing extra defenders to open up the floor for their shooters, they missed him when he was on the bench - when he sat, a unique dimension of their offense was effectively removed from their sets, and then teams could defend them more easily. Nowitzki's ability to shoot from outside can pose issues, but do you think I'd mind so much if you used him as a decoy instead of as an active, premier piece? The goal of any defense that plays against a star player is to keep him from seeing the basketball as much as possible, and if you want someone else to beat me on the ball instead of Nowitzki, then fine. I'll guard an inferior player 1v1 while Nowitzki is out of the play. Opposing teams hated it however when they had to leave defenders on an island with Nowitzki in attacking position.

Personally though, I don't think the Thunder mind if their team can somewhat function without Durant. Teams that can put up points in multiple ways (especially when their star rests) are a handful to defend, as we saw with the 2012 Thunder.

[MisterWestside]

FWIW, David Aldridge, who I'm pretty sure has a vote, still has Durant 1st on his MVP ladder in his weekly column. Not sure how close he considers the race, tho. SAS, if he has a vote, already decided to give it to Durant a few weeks back on First Take.

SAS did admit that it's a close race again, though, and that it will be a photo finish. He was eager to hand the MVP to Durant before the Heat's February.

[aol4532]

By definition, MVP is how you do over an entire season vs all teams, not against each other.

[SideshowBob]

<snip>

You or Doctor MJ can feel free to comment on this, but while mysticbb's analysis is certainly appreciated, I think Dirk's effect on that team has way more to do with what the Mavs didn't have than Nowitzki necessarily being a better player than Durant. 2011 Nowitzki was primarily a mid/high-post, perimeter hybrid, current Durant is primarily a slasher, perimeter hybrid. The Thunder can somewhat make up for what Durant brings to the table by playing some of their niche role players together in their lineups (the 7 foot floor spacer Ibaka, the slasher Jackson, and the shooters Lamb and Fisher), the 2011 Mavs did not feature anyone else on their roster who could hurt you in the mid/high post. Since a good part of their offense was predicated on Nowitzki posting up and drawing extra defenders to open up the floor for their shooters, they missed him when he was on the bench - when he sat, a unique dimension of their offense was effectively removed from their sets, and then teams could defend them more easily. Nowitzki's ability to shoot from outside can pose issues, but do you think I'd mind so much if you used him as a decoy instead of as an active, premier piece? The goal of any defense that plays against a star player is to keep him from seeing the basketball as much as possible, and if you want someone else to beat me on the ball instead of Nowitzki, then fine. I'll guard an inferior player 1v1 while Nowitzki is out of the play. Opposing teams hated it however when they had to leave defenders on an island with Nowitzki in attacking position.

Personally though, I don't think the Thunder mind if their team can somewhat function without Durant. Teams that can put up points in multiple ways (especially when their star rests) are a handful to defend, as we saw with the 2012 Thunder.

Not much to say, agree with all of what you said.

[MisterHibachi]

FWIW, David Aldridge, who I'm pretty sure has a vote, still has Durant 1st on his MVP ladder in his weekly column. Not sure how close he considers the race, tho. SAS, if he has a vote, already decided to give it to Durant a few weeks back on First Take.

SAS did admit that it's a close race again, though, and that it will be a photo finish. He was eager to hand the MVP to Durant before the Heat's February.

Ah I didn't know that. That's good. Silly to decide on who's the MVP after January.

[Antrim]

Sure, thats a factor. Wade is having a down year, no doubt. But LeBron still had two-all stars on his team this season, Durant had zero. That carries more weight.



They split, thats all anyone is going to remember in April/May. Most people won't even recall which game came first. Collectively, in those two games, LeBron played slightly better. So ya, add it to the list of things to consider if it makes you feel better. I think its pretty minimal though and debatable, so thats why I didnt include it.
My list wasn't all inclusive, clearly there are other things that can be brought up.

They both played well in their first encounter and LeBron absolutely destroyed Durant in the second. "Collectively, LeBron played slightly better" is not an accurate description of the events.

If it'll matter or not I don't know, because if either team does really well or really bad and there's a noticeable difference in team record the one with the higher one will win. But if things are really tight in the end, I wouldn't be surprised if at least some of the voters have it in mind. I mean, it was their last encounter of the season, on national TV, and pretty brutal.

Combined stats.
Durant: 61 points, 15 rebonds, 8 assists, 4 steals, 9 turnovers.
FG: 22/45 - 49%. 3P: 5/15 - 33%. FT: 12/15 - 80%.
James: 67 points, 10 rebounds, 6 assists, 4 steals, 11 turnovers.
FG: 27/42 - 64%. 3P: 2/10 - 20%. FT 11/14 - 79%.

Total Score of the 2 games.
Miami - 198
OKC - 193

I don't think a rational voter will 1) look at 1 or 2 games in an 82 game season to determine his vote, or 2) remember anything more than who won, or 3) look at those stats and think that LeBron just obliterated Durant in the season series. Like I said above, I think LeBron did play better in the two games, but Its not going to matter that much. Their numbers were similar, each guy has a win, they split.

Durant outplayed LeBron in game 1, and OKC won. LeBron outplayed Durant in game 2, and Miami won. Did LeBron out play Durant more than Durant outplayed LeBron? Ya. But I don't think that it'll matter that much in the big scheme of things.

Durant didn't outplay LeBron in game 1. They both played a good game and his team won.

LeBron KILLED Durant in game 2. I could care less about combining total points, rebounds and assists like you're doing. One player completely dominated the game and the other one remained passive until garbage time when he pumped his stats as much as he could (LeBron was also out of the game by then). It's really hard to watch this game and reach any other conclusion.

I think if OKC had beaten Miami and Durant had played at LeBron's level or higher there'd be no doubt now that he's the MVP. It was quite the opposite and the race seems to still be open. I'm not sure if it'll be the deciding factor in the end, but I do think it must have affected some voters' perspective.

[crazy_me_87]

the agression of Lebron since that Utah game... oh boy..

thats not even called attacking... i dont even know whats thats called like? o.O

if we look at it past All Star Break.. so far Lebron has been scary.. like really scary

and KD has struggled some..

so i would say KD is still in the lead but he sure hears Lebrons stomping steps aproaching fast

[EArl]

Poor Bobcats. They are getting trashed by Lebron.

[ThePersianFreak]

Close enough ?

[PaulieWal]

Lol LeBron really trying to overtake KD for MVP.

49 points so far, 8/8 from 3.

[36Mafia]

Give it to Lebron

[CKRT]

Hold up guys. Let's take an obligatory moment and appreciate we are witnessing most likely the 2nd best player of all time who will be neck and neck with Jordan as far as on the court play goes. It's **** crazy to me that I'll get to tell people that I saw LeBron play.


AHHH. I love basketball.

Just reminding everyone that I posted this last night.


THIS MAN IS **** INSANE. WE ARE ALL WITNESSES.

[NaturalThunder]

Congratulations to LeBron on his 3rd straight and 5th total MVP award. Unfortunately, even though Durant was insane at a time when LeBron was a little lacking in effort and play, it's all about timeing and right now, down the stretch, LeBron is beasting and Durant is slumping.

[PaulieWal]

Congratulations to LeBron on his 3rd straight and 5th total MVP award. Unfortunately, even though Durant was insane at a time when LeBron was a little lacking in effort and play, it's all about timeing and right now, down the stretch, LeBron is beasting and Durant is slumping.

Not sure if you are being sarcastic or if you genuinely feel that but KD is still in the lead. I won't lie before this game I thought KD had it wrapped up and you can see that from my previous posts in the thread but he really is making a push right now. This game will certainly make all the people who have KD as their MVP look at LeBron again but I wouldn't be so down on KD's chances. Lots of games left for both of these players to beast out.

[WinisKing]

Congratulations to LeBron on his 3rd straight and 5th total MVP award. Unfortunately, even though Durant was insane at a time when LeBron was a little lacking in effort and play, it's all about timeing and right now, down the stretch, LeBron is beasting and Durant is slumping.

Giving Lebron the jinx I gave Durant when he was on his stretch, I see what you are doing

[bobly]

Congratulations to LeBron on his 3rd straight and 5th total MVP award. Unfortunately, even though Durant was insane at a time when LeBron was a little lacking in effort and play, it's all about timeing and right now, down the stretch, LeBron is beasting and Durant is slumping.

Durant still has a sizable lead IMO even with Lebron getting a career high tonight.

[Antrim]

There's no way Durant is in the lead after tonight. You guys are giving the voters way too much credit regarding memory.

The last two important events in the RS have been LeBron's 57 (or whatever he ends up with) and LeBron killing Durant.

[toodles23]

Congratulations to LeBron on his 3rd straight and 5th total MVP award. Unfortunately, even though Durant was insane at a time when LeBron was a little lacking in effort and play, it's all about timeing and right now, down the stretch, LeBron is beasting and Durant is slumping.

Let's not overreact. Even 3 weeks from now, nobody's going to be talking about some game against the Bobcats. And I say this as a huge Lebron fan.

KD's still in the MVP lead for me, one game doesn't change that.