Developing vs Winning

[ICMTM]

I thought (like everyone else) the Kings would have drafted a PG, which we were all looking at Burke or Michael Carter Williams.

Is the draft where some GM's are looking for "all or nothing" type players? I say that because it seems like GM's are willing to miss on guys versus get the sure thing?

McLemore....I think he is a low IQ guy.

[pillwenney]

The thing is though, Burke and Carter-Williams look good compared to the rest of this class right now (although remember, Burke was a junior, and most others were freshmen), but they're still not really having like, amazing rookie years. Burke is nice, but is he a real game changer? I don't think so. I think he'll be a capable starter.

Carter-Williams might be something more. It's hard to tell right now. But yes, I do think this might as well have been a swing for the fences draft, because the upside of taking a safer pick (not that people though MCW was safe) isn't very high.

[ICMTM]

And that's where I'm not mad at the McLemore pick. If he puts it together, and I'm on the fence leaning towards he will, then it's a great pick. I do agree with Pill the other picks were safe picks, but not game changers.

[Big_Cat]

And that's where I'm not mad at the McLemore pick. If he puts it together, and I'm on the fence leaning towards he will, then it's a great pick. I do agree with Pill the other picks were safe picks, but not game changers.

I don't understand how anyone can be mad with the McLemore pick.


Pretty much every rational person/non-homer knew that the 2013 draft was almost completely worthless. The entire draft would probably yield only a handful of players that have a career longer than 5-6 years.


If anyone really thought McLemore was going to be a stud, clearly was viewing Ben through their King's-Homer-Glasses. If McLemore was drafted by any other team, no one here would consider him to be anything special.


2013 meant nothing. 2014 means everything.

[ICMTM]

And that's where I'm not mad at the McLemore pick. If he puts it together, and I'm on the fence leaning towards he will, then it's a great pick. I do agree with Pill the other picks were safe picks, but not game changers.

I don't understand how anyone can be mad with the McLemore pick.


Pretty much every rational person/non-homer knew that the 2013 draft was almost completely worthless. The entire draft would probably yield only a handful of players that have a career longer than 5-6 years.


If anyone really thought McLemore was going to be a stud, clearly was viewing Ben through their King's-Homer-Glasses. If McLemore was drafted by any other team, no one here would consider him to be anything special.


2013 meant nothing. 2014 means everything.

I don't recall anyone saying BMac was going to be the next anything, but where the frustration lies is our last three picks have got us little to nothing. Fredette, Robinson, McLemore...I see this post partly to do with our history in landing picks who didn't work as well.

[PetrieUnderstudy]

That is fine if last years draft stunk. Then let's move on. My point is management comes out and says we're behind McLemore and aren't trading him. That is fine if they're just trying to reassure him but behind the scenes willing to move him. We all have our opinions and my opinion is he won't materialize into what we need so screw development and le'ts win. The organization (past and previous management) has f'd up with their picks. I don't want to rely on draft picks, tanking, developing, etc. Go for proven commodities via trade.

Someone said my suggested roster (mentioned previous in this thread) is a playoff team but we'd get eliminated. That is the problem with some people's rational. Looking for "all or nothing" type players? Lets get some "something" type players and make the playoffs instead of dreaming about some draft pick turning into a superstar and having a parade through downtown Sac. I think we are all tired of losing and would love to be in the playoffs. I would rather be a good team every year rather than sucking every year praying for a LeBron type to fall in our laps so maybe, just maybe we win it all once. Let's assemble a playoff team before worrying about championships.

[blind prophet]

That is fine if last years draft stunk. Then let's move on. My point is management comes out and says we're behind McLemore and aren't trading him. That is fine if they're just trying to reassure him but behind the scenes willing to move him. We all have our opinions and my opinion is he won't materialize into what we need so screw development and le'ts win. The organization (past and previous management) has f'd up with their picks. I don't want to rely on draft picks, tanking, developing, etc. Go for proven commodities via trade.

Someone said my suggested roster (mentioned previous in this thread) is a playoff team but we'd get eliminated. That is the problem with some people's rational. Looking for "all or nothing" type players? Lets get some "something" type players and make the playoffs instead of dreaming about some draft pick turning into a superstar and having a parade through downtown Sac. I think we are all tired of losing and would love to be in the playoffs. I would rather be a good team every year rather than sucking every year praying for a LeBron type to fall in our laps so maybe, just maybe we win it all once. Let's assemble a playoff team before worrying about championships.

This draft is an astrix, some good commodities out there.

Typically the best thing to do is be flexible until you have legitimate talent on the table. We are castrated with our contract clutter.

So we really are going to have problems even trying to take a step at a time.

The only thing you can do is develop young players this season, hope you find something...and avoid multi year contract clutter. Especially mid range contract clutter.

[likenom]

The only way to become a winner is to have good character guys at all positions.

When you have that, the age does not matter, nor the experience. At most you'll be a legit contender within a season.

See
Warriors
Spurs
Rockets
Bulls
Blazers

All of these teams stay Contenders or turned it around into a contender within a season.

[pillwenney]

That is fine if last years draft stunk. Then let's move on. My point is management comes out and says we're behind McLemore and aren't trading him. That is fine if they're just trying to reassure him but behind the scenes willing to move him. We all have our opinions and my opinion is he won't materialize into what we need so screw development and le'ts win. The organization (past and previous management) has f'd up with their picks. I don't want to rely on draft picks, tanking, developing, etc. Go for proven commodities via trade.

Someone said my suggested roster (mentioned previous in this thread) is a playoff team but we'd get eliminated. That is the problem with some people's rational. Looking for "all or nothing" type players? Lets get some "something" type players and make the playoffs instead of dreaming about some draft pick turning into a superstar and having a parade through downtown Sac. I think we are all tired of losing and would love to be in the playoffs. I would rather be a good team every year rather than sucking every year praying for a LeBron type to fall in our laps so maybe, just maybe we win it all once. Let's assemble a playoff team before worrying about championships.

Part of the problem with this rational is that you need to generate value in some way, and regardless of building around young players, you need to draft and develop well so that they become valuable pieces, or trade them immediately. That's why I'm not in favor of really leaning on one way or the other, but instead prioritizing value. Don't trade for a veteran unless you're winning the value game, and don't prioritize drafting if you don't think the guy you draft is ultimately going to be more valuable than another piece you could acquire via trade.

I don't think you and the franchise really even differ on philosophy. You differ purely on your opinions of what McLemore can be.

[PZiv]

I think its unfair to judge McLemore this season, just think about the last good shooter the kings had, Peja, he wasn't very good his first season back in 98 and he had been playing in the euro-leagues for a while as well as winning an MVP with PAOK, but he turned out to be a pretty good player, a more recent example could be James Harden, who's rookie season wasn't the most spectacular.

I also think that McLemore played better when Vazquez, I felt like I saw more flashes of hope when he had a actual pass first point guard.

pretty good player for Peja's influence on Sacramento Kings is really an understatement. Allstar and MVP performance looks light years of Bmac. But luckily he has the tools to accomplish that, but does he own the work ethic of Peja, thats the real question! Peja's work ethic is what made him and Kings relevant while he was here and after he got traded for much valuable piece(Ron Artest).
Apparently transition from college game affects Ben, but he really needs a good workout on summer and a personal coach in some veteran star to guide him or else he might join the list of "yet another draft bust".
Luckily for your team Ray McCallum was a nice draft pick, not Isaiah Thomas-like pick from 2nd round, but really really good pickup in a weak draft.
Petrie wasted 12 years of your life already destroying this team with stupidity(everything from Gerald Wallace trade onwards), I'd say you can wait 1 more for a guy and team that still isn't ready for anything serious yet.

[Big_Cat]

That is fine if last years draft stunk. Then let's move on. My point is management comes out and says we're behind McLemore and aren't trading him. That is fine if they're just trying to reassure him but behind the scenes willing to move him. We all have our opinions and my opinion is he won't materialize into what we need so screw development and le'ts win. The organization (past and previous management) has f'd up with their picks. I don't want to rely on draft picks, tanking, developing, etc. Go for proven commodities via trade.

Someone said my suggested roster (mentioned previous in this thread) is a playoff team but we'd get eliminated. That is the problem with some people's rational. Looking for "all or nothing" type players? Lets get some "something" type players and make the playoffs instead of dreaming about some draft pick turning into a superstar and having a parade through downtown Sac. I think we are all tired of losing and would love to be in the playoffs. I would rather be a good team every year rather than sucking every year praying for a LeBron type to fall in our laps so maybe, just maybe we win it all once. Let's assemble a playoff team before worrying about championships.

You have to realize, the history and nature of the NBA is that every team has a ceiling simply because of drafting and salary restrictions. You make a push too early, and your ceiling is fairly low. And once you make your push, trying to raise your ceiling is incredibly hard if not impossible. Look at the countless of "treadmill" teams that year after year are in the playoff hunt, and yet NEVER have a realistic shot at winning the title (ie Phoenix in the past few years with Nash, Utah with Deron/Al, Denver, Memphis, Milwaukee, etc. etc. etc.)

[ADoaN17]

Ben needs to cut his hair. His game has gotten worse the longer it gets...

[Wolfay]

I read an interesting comment on StR that said that the Kings are 14-9 in games where Thomas, Gay and Cousins all log at least 30 minutes. That’s a .609 winning percentage, which translates to 50 wins over the course of a whole season. That's all while learning to play together on the fly. No training camp or preseason.

[Kings2013]

I read an interesting comment on StR that said that the Kings are 14-9 in games where Thomas, Gay and Cousins all log at least 30 minutes. That’s a .609 winning percentage, which translates to 50 wins over the course of a whole season. That's all while learning to play together on the fly. No training camp or preseason.

While playing with arguably the worst starting sg play in the league.

[Wolfay]

I read an interesting comment on StR that said that the Kings are 14-9 in games where Thomas, Gay and Cousins all log at least 30 minutes. That’s a .609 winning percentage, which translates to 50 wins over the course of a whole season. That's all while learning to play together on the fly. No training camp or preseason.

While playing with arguably the worst starting sg play in the league.

I think the offseason will help Ben a lot. We now have the kind of environment where our players will get all the resources they need in the offseason to develop and improve.

[KF10]

Outside the big 3: Cuz, Rudy & IT, we have very little in terms of on-court contribution.

The next players who has the most PPG is DWill & BMac, 9.4 PPG & 7.6 PPG, respectively! The drop off is HUGE outside from the big 3.

[SacKingZZZ]

Outside the big 3: Cuz, Rudy & IT, we have very little in terms of on-court contribution.

The next players who has the most PPG is DWill & BMac, 9.4 PPG & 7.6 PPG, respectively! The drop off is HUGE outside from the big 3.

They have even less in terms of on court offensive opportunity. Combined McLemore and Williams take less shots per game than pretty much all of them alone. Just further indication that this team needs more guys that can impact the game outside of being able to create offense, it doesn't matter who you are, as constructed the shots just aren't there.

[Big_Cat]

Outside the big 3: Cuz, Rudy & IT, we have very little in terms of on-court contribution.

The next players who has the most PPG is DWill & BMac, 9.4 PPG & 7.6 PPG, respectively! The drop off is HUGE outside from the big 3.

They have even less in terms of on court offensive opportunity. Combined McLemore and Williams take less shots per game than pretty much all of them alone. Just further indication that this team needs more guys that can impact the game outside of being able to create offense, it doesn't matter who you are, as constructed the shots just aren't there.

This team needs supporting players like Asik, Affalo, Thabo, Noah, etc.

The PROBLEM with committing all of our money to our "big 3 " along with our terrible contracts, is we are no longer in a position to be able to acquire those needed supporting players. Defensive anchors are not found with the MLE nor are they acquired via trade by giving up the likes of McLemore.


It's quite clear that this team has started to make our move....and the only response to that is

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=odwnpFwuwF8[/youtube]

[SacKingZZZ]

Outside the big 3: Cuz, Rudy & IT, we have very little in terms of on-court contribution.

The next players who has the most PPG is DWill & BMac, 9.4 PPG & 7.6 PPG, respectively! The drop off is HUGE outside from the big 3.

They have even less in terms of on court offensive opportunity. Combined McLemore and Williams take less shots per game than pretty much all of them alone. Just further indication that this team needs more guys that can impact the game outside of being able to create offense, it doesn't matter who you are, as constructed the shots just aren't there.

This team needs supporting players like Asik, Affalo, Thabo, Noah, etc.

The PROBLEM with committing all of our money to our "big 3 " along with our terrible contracts, is we are no longer in a position to be able to acquire those needed supporting players. Defensive anchors are not found with the MLE nor are they acquired via trade by giving up the likes of McLemore.


It's quite clear that this team has started to make our move....and the only response to that is

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=odwnpFwuwF8[/youtube]

They sometimes can be acquired when the new car smell wears off, and it already is, or will soon with some of the players that could really help this team. Lets see what someone like Asik go for. And yes, someone like Thabo is the exact player you sign for the MLE and hopefully this team looks his direction this summer. Just have to keep your ear to the ground and most of all be willing to move the assets you do have when the time is right, otherwise the opportunity will pass you by. If this team isn't slutting a McLemore/this years 1st for something this summer and in particular on draft night, they're doing it wrong. Now, they don't have to move them, but at least find out what if you can get some of the players on your target list. So far they've appeared to know what they need, like in going after Iggy, trading for Gay, but they've also made "settle" type moves in Derrick Williams and Carl Landry. I guess that's still better than the last regime where when they did spend money, it rarely made any sense whatsoever.