Larry Bird vs Lebron James - Greatest SF of all Time

[RayBan-Sematra]

Weighing overall impact in regular seasons, I'd put LeBron ahead, but yeah, maybe I should weigh playoff performances more.

Fair enough.

I'd probably side with Lebron being the better regular-season performer mainly because of his far superior durability (Shaq had a tendency to miss games and in a small number of seasons he missed a substantial amount of games).
Though missed games aside Shaq's regular-season numbers were GOAT level and his regular-season winning percentage during his Prime in games he played in was close to 70% I believe which is a mark few can or have ever bettered.

Me personally I give far more weight to the playoffs then I do the regular-season so you can understand why I think Lebron is still a ways off from being in my GOAT contender class which is where I have Jordan, Kareem, Shaq, Russell and maybe Magic/Duncan.

[wigglestrue]

Weighing overall impact in regular seasons, I'd put LeBron ahead, but yeah, maybe I should weigh playoff performances more.

Fair enough.

I'd probably side with Lebron being the better regular-season performer mainly because of his far superior durability (Shaq had a tendency to miss games and in a small number of seasons he missed a substantial amount of games).
Though missed games aside Shaq's regular-season numbers were GOAT level and his regular-season winning percentage during his Prime in games he played in was close to 70% I believe which is a mark few can or have ever bettered.

Me personally I give far more weight to the playoffs then I do the regular-season so you can understand why I think Lebron is still a ways off from being in my GOAT contender class which is where I have Jordan, Kareem, Shaq, Russell and maybe Magic/Duncan.

Kareem but only "maybe" Magic or Duncan, and no mention of Bird? Bird won three titles in the most competitive era in NBA history, as his team's unquestioned best player, and would've had two more in a Magic-less world, and Kareem would've had five fewer in that same Magic-less world, and in this world he was only the undisputed best player on one Lakers title-winner, 1980, and was clearly not-the-best-player in at least three. It makes no sense to keep Bird (best player on three champions) or Duncan (best player on four champions) or Magic (who was the best player on four out of five of the champions he played for) out of your playoff-legend club, and let in Kareem (best player on two champions).

[magicmerl]

Bird really couldn't defend small forwards

So in a thread comparing Larry Bird and LeBron James specifically for the title of the greatest SF of all time, amidst a discussion of how good of a defender Bird is, we get this.

If Bird is really a power forward, maybe he should be on a similar PF discussion thread?

I guess his competition among power forwards would be Malone, Barkley, Garnett? (if we assume that we're using the same logic to reclassify Duncan as a center that is, otherwise he's probably the choice)

[RayBan-Sematra]

Kareem but only "maybe" Magic or Duncan, and no mention of Bird?

Kareem had better longevity then Magic & Duncan along with a comparable or superior Prime/Peak.

Bird won three titles in the most competitive era in NBA history, as his team's unquestioned best player, and would've had two more in a Magic-less world

Bird had an insane Peak but as a playoff performer he was inconsistent outside of his Peak and he didn't have great longevity compared to many of the other ATG's.
I don't give that much weight to titles because they are a team accomplishment and an accomplishment that can be gained or lost based on countless other factors outside of just a players cast.

and Kareem would've had five fewer in that same Magic-less world, and in this world he was only the undisputed best player on one Lakers title-winner, 1980, and was clearly not-the-best-player in at least three.

Kareem can get overrated at times.
He had some consistency issues and some valleys during the 70's and he was pretty damn lucky to get to play with both Oscar & Magic.
Still he had a pretty damn good Prime, an insane Peak and GOAT level longevity.

It makes no sense to keep Bird (best player on three champions) or Duncan (best player on four champions) or Magic (who was the best player on four out of five of the champions he played for) out of your playoff-legend club, and let in Kareem (best player on two champions).

Well to be fair I have Duncan & Magic right behind the class Kareem is in so it isn't like I am saying there is a gigantic gap between them.
Bird I feel wasn't quite up to snuff as a career playoff performer even if his Peak rivals the best of the best.
Then again if you give a ton of weight to Championships won as "the man" then I can understand why you'd feel Duncan & Bird should at worst be in the same class as Kareem.

[BmanInBigD]

At their best, I can't see a case for Bird over LeBron. And Bird is my second favorite player ever, and LeBron is not close to #1. Bird had more legendary, famous (or infamous, depending on where you live) moments, but game for game I'd take LeBron. Just too dominating on both ends of the floor.

[wigglestrue]

Correct me if I'm wrong but...isn't LeBron playing a lot like a PF these days, too?

Again, and perhaps this should be worded "officially", if the OP will not mind:
Mods, please change the "SF" in this thread to "F" or "Forward"?
Is possible? Can haz?

[JordansBulls]

Correct me if I'm wrong but...isn't LeBron playing a lot like a PF these days, too?

Again, and perhaps this should be worded "officially", if the OP will not mind:
Mods, please change the "SF" in this thread to "F" or "Forward"?
Is possible? Can haz?

You would have to add Tim Duncan to this as well then.

[wigglestrue]

Correct me if I'm wrong but...isn't LeBron playing a lot like a PF these days, too?

Again, and perhaps this should be worded "officially", if the OP will not mind:
Mods, please change the "SF" in this thread to "F" or "Forward"?
Is possible? Can haz?

You would have to add Tim Duncan to this as well then.

Sure! Then again, he's only nominally a forward, right?

[wigglestrue]

People are generally getting ahead of themselves. LeBron has won nothing this year yet, might not even win MVP. People are counting not only a 2014 chicken that hasn't hatched yet, but years more than that, too. Likely is not the same as already happened. Hasn't even equaled Bird yet. At this point in time, whatever the category, SF or just Forward, this is still Bird's.

[JordansBulls]

Which years would Bird have won league mvp in the NBA if he came in in 2004

2004 - 1980 Bird
2005 - 1981 Bird
2006 - 1982 Bird
2007 - 1983 Bird
2008 - 1984 Bird
2009 - 1985 Bird
2010 - 1986 Bird
2011 - 1987 Bird
2012 - 1988 Bird
2013 - 1989 Bird
2014 - 1990 Bird

[Quotatious]

Which years would Bird have won league mvp in the NBA if he came in in 2004

2004 - 1980 Bird
2005 - 1981 Bird
2006 - 1982 Bird
2007 - 1983 Bird
2008 - 1984 Bird
2009 - 1985 Bird
2010 - 1986 Bird
2011 - 1987 Bird
2012 - 1988 Bird
2013 - 1989 Bird
2014 - 1990 Bird

Impossible to tell without knowing what team he'd play for?

[JordansBulls]

Which years would Bird have won league mvp in the NBA if he came in in 2004

2004 - 1980 Bird
2005 - 1981 Bird
2006 - 1982 Bird
2007 - 1983 Bird
2008 - 1984 Bird
2009 - 1985 Bird
2010 - 1986 Bird
2011 - 1987 Bird
2012 - 1988 Bird
2013 - 1989 Bird
2014 - 1990 Bird

Impossible to tell without knowing what team he'd play for?

Same as Lebron. Just remove Lebron from the Cavs. He wouldn't a stacked team because the league was much weaker overall and especially the eastern conference.

[Quotatious]

Same as Lebron. Just remove Lebron from the Cavs.

I think he'd likely win in 2010, 2011 and 2012 (assuming he gets traded to Miami and plays alongside Wade). 2009 is arguable, although Bird not being on LeBron's level defensively would cost Cavs a few wins...55-60 wins for 2009 Cavs, probably, and they'd be dead-even with Kobe in the MVP race that year. Very slim, or no chances outside of this 3 year stretch. I'm actually not that impressed with Bird outside of his 5 season prime between 1984 and 1988. He was a very inconsistent playoff performer earlier in his career, and not that great as shooter, as he eventually became in the mid-to-late 80s, and in the late 80s, injuries destroyed him.

[ThunderDan9]

Bird might win MVP in 2005 as well.

[pinkblackattack]

I don't even consider Bird a SF.

Seeing as how he wasn't one, didn't start his career as one, or even played like one. He was a stretch 4 who was versatile enough to play SF.

Lebron is great, Bird is great, their accolades are neck and neck.

Problem for Bron is he's not winning another MVP or another chip as the "man". 12th season playing 39+ mpg average, unless he's on SERIOUS steroids, he'll start breaking down next year, and the Heat wont be good enough anymore. He'll have to collude again and hop to another franchise.

The Heat this season remind me a bit of the 88 Celts. Still have the big 3, but their bench sucks, Lebron's a year older and his defense has waned, and I see the Pacers beating them in 6 in the Conference Finals just like Detroit (another defensive stalwart) did to Boston that year.

Bird put up his best %'s in 88 just like Lebron this year, but he couldn't sustain it in the playoffs, which is what I see happening to James.

[magicmerl]

Problem for Bron is he's not winning another MVP or another chip as the "man".

So you're saying that the best player in the league, on the best team in the league, isn't likely to win another championship?

See you after the finals.

[pinkblackattack]

Problem for Bron is he's not winning another MVP or another chip as the "man".

So you're saying that the best player in the league, on the best team in the league, isn't likely to win another championship?

See you after the finals.

nba history says no team since the SIXTIES has gone to 4 straight finals and won more than 2. la didn't do it in the 80's, boston didn't do it.

so yea, the Cheat are NOT winning the chip this year. and Durant is winning the mvp.

and lol at you saying he's the best player in the league. b/c right now, he's NOT. nor are the Heat even the 2nd best team in the league. they're in the 3rd-4th area, and just lost to an old ass Spurs team by double digits with Lebron putting up a putrid game for his standards.

history repeats itself buddy boy. you WONT be seeing me "in the Finals" b/c Miami isn't even GETTING THERE. Theyr'e gonna lose to Indiana in 6. I call it like I see it. Their bench is awful, and this time they won't have home court advantage.

if by some miracle lechoke gets to the Finals for his 5th and last trip, he'll lose to OKC. Look at ALL the players in NBA history - it goes downhill past their 11th-12th season in the league. next year wade's another year older, allen's another year older, etc, etc.

[kvnzhangyay]

Problem for Bron is he's not winning another MVP or another chip as the "man".

So you're saying that the best player in the league, on the best team in the league, isn't likely to win another championship?

See you after the finals.

nba history says no team since the SIXTIES has gone to 4 straight finals and won more than 2. la didn't do it in the 80's, boston didn't do it.

so yea, the Cheat are NOT winning the chip this year. and Durant is winning the mvp.

and lol at you saying he's the best player in the league. b/c right now, he's NOT. nor are the Heat even the 2nd best team in the league. they're in the 3rd-4th area, and just lost to an old ass Spurs team by double digits with Lebron putting up a putrid game for his standards.

history repeats itself buddy boy. you WONT be seeing me "in the Finals" b/c Miami isn't even GETTING THERE. Theyr'e gonna lose to Indiana in 6. I call it like I see it. Their bench is awful, and this time they won't have home court advantage.

if by some miracle lechoke gets to the Finals for his 5th and last trip, he'll lose to OKC. Look at ALL the players in NBA history - it goes downhill past their 11th-12th season in the league. next year wade's another year older, allen's another year older, etc, etc.

You literally lost all credibility with terms such as "lechoke" and "cHeat"

[JordansBulls]

Problem for Bron is he's not winning another MVP or another chip as the "man".

So you're saying that the best player in the league, on the best team in the league, isn't likely to win another championship?

Durant is not part of the discussion here for this season.

[RSCD3_]

Ah the old skip bayless " it hasnt been done before, so it is impossible" logic

Also indiana has been slumping as paul george hasnt been playing that well.

I think some celtics fans may be heavily overrating indiana solely because of larry bird.

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