2013-14 MVP Discussion Thread Pt III

[KING JAMES1978]

Is also good to remember what both players did in the same arena.
LBJ was better than Durant against the Suns in the same arena.

[dr3am]

Westbrook is definitely not going to win or even be close into the MVP conversation but man, he's putting up some MVP type numbers these past two games. He almost had another triple double tonight

Also @Hibachi i agree. The finish to the season is shaping up to be one to remember

Yea LeBron did have a bad game tonight but he's also came out twice and said how the sleeved jerseys affect his shooting. Either way i agree with what Hero said, it's definitely not a big deal since both teams lost but as far as the numbers goes, Durant definitely has the edge over Bron

[HotRocks34]

LeBron may wish to send Phoenix and Gerald Green some thank you cards after tonight. They may have saved his candidacy for the time being.

Tough night for LeBron, but could have been much worse had OKC won.

[MisterHibachi]

This is shaping up to be a very exciting season.

[kingkirk]

I am not sure why we're discussing how the Spurs game has hurt Lebron but at the same time ignoring it for Durant.

I think Durant should be MVP, but if we're being reactionary to one game, both guys got the L tonight.

Both teams have 16 losses, so whoever can consolidate and end up with the better record, that's where the award most likely goes too.

If the Heat dropped 2 in a row whilst OKC kept rolling, perhaps that hurts Lebron a little, but at this point, they're still as close as you can get come MVP time.

[Gwynplaine]

LeBron may wish to send Phoenix and Gerald Green some thank you cards after tonight. They may have saved his candidacy for the time being.

Tough night for LeBron, but could have been much worse had OKC won.

Haha... I think OKC needs to end up at-least 2-3 games below the Heat with LeBron outperforming KD the rest of the way for it to swing his way. For now though, KD definitely has the lead.

LeBron will come back strong after two days rest. It will also help that the **** sleeves will never be seen again. An abomination.

[tweet]https://twitter.com/EthanJSkolnick/status/441787193552424960[/tweet]

[tweet]https://twitter.com/EthanJSkolnick/status/441787703672061952[/tweet]

[tweet]https://twitter.com/EthanJSkolnick/status/441789095002394625[/tweet]

[Gwynplaine]

I am not sure why we're discussing how the Spurs game has hurt Lebron but at the same time ignoring it for Durant.

I think Durant should be MVP, but if we're being reactionary to one game, both guys got the L tonight.

Both teams have 16 losses, so whoever can consolidate and end up with the better record, that's where the award most likely goes too.

If the Heat dropped 2 in a row whilst OKC kept rolling, perhaps that hurts Lebron a little, but at this point, they're still as close as you can get come MVP time.

Cmon KC. Look at KD's statline. Definitely better. At this point it's so close that being reactionary can actually be justified.

Westbrook was an absolute monster tonight though.

[PaulieWal]

I am not sure why we're discussing how the Spurs game has hurt Lebron but at the same time ignoring it for Durant.

I think Durant should be MVP, but if we're being reactionary to one game, both guys got the L tonight.

Both teams have 16 losses, so whoever can consolidate and end up with the better record, that's where the award most likely goes too.

If the Heat dropped 2 in a row whilst OKC kept rolling, perhaps that hurts Lebron a little, but at this point, they're still as close as you can get come MVP time.

I agree that KD has a slight lead but he still played better than LeBron and that's why I think his lead increases a bit. LeBron has played two bad games in a row and it is important that he play well against the Bulls on ABC.

[HotRocks34]

LeBron may wish to send Phoenix and Gerald Green some thank you cards after tonight. They may have saved his candidacy for the time being.

Tough night for LeBron, but could have been much worse had OKC won.

Haha... I think OKC needs to end up at-least 2-3 games below the Heat with LeBron outperforming KD the rest of the way for it to swing his way. For now though, KD definitely has the lead.

I don't see it like that. I think it comes down to straight up best record. Barkley said the same thing recently, and I agree. As I've mentioned about 1,000,000 times in this thread, I think it will be like the 2008 race. But that's just my own opinion, we'll see.

OKC was up 16 points late in the third and they lost? Ugh. I did not know that. TNT just said Phoenix went on a 23-2 run to regain the lead. I hope Durant was on the bench then.

LeBron needs to keep his stats at like 30+ PER level. I think if he's around there, he would win the award with a better record than OKC and certainly with the best record in the league. That's a long way from here, though. And he needs to keep winning when Wade sits.

Tough 2 games for him, on TV. But Phoenix gave him the assist tonight.

[kingkirk]

Cmon KC. Look at KD's statline. Definitely better. At this point it's so close that being reactionary can actually be justified.

Westbrook was an absolute monster tonight though.

Durant had a much better stat line this week, but if we’re being so short term, Lebron had 61 several days ago. Obviously, with 2 underwhelming performances in a row, that has levelled it out somewhat, but he still has great numbers as well.

I think its clear that at this point that its not going to come down to individual stats.

Both games have had incredibly rounded seasons and have filled the stats sheet all over the joint. Both have been in another stratosphere efficiency wise.

It will come down to record, and as at the end of the today, both have 16 losses.

The reason i have Durant ahead is because of what he did for his team in January to keep them afloat without Westbrook. This is the only reason.

For me, i’d love to see KD win it, but tonight alone shouldn’t be any reason to say Lebron’s chances took a hit. Both guys had losses and they each have 16 losses. It will come down to the last week of games, and that is extremely exciting.

[HotRocks34]

I just confirmed that Durant was on the court for the entire 23-2 Phoenix run which gave Phoenix the lead after they trailed by 16 late in the fourth quarter. You can see the play by play here:

http://scores.espn.go.com/nba/playbypla ... 8&period=0

OKC took a 96-80 lead with 3:47 left in the third quarter after a made Caron Butler three pointer. From that point on until 11:40 left in the 4th quarter (so 4:07 of game time), Phoenix made the 23-2 run. Here was the lineup on the court for OKC (guessing here at who was playing which position):

PG -- Reggie Jackson
SG -- Caron Butler
SF -- Andre Roberson
PF -- Kevin Durant
C --- Serge Ibaka

I believe the lineup for Phoenix on the court for the 23-2 run was the following:

PG -- Ish Smith
SG -- Gerald Green
SF -- PJ Tucker
PF -- Markieff Morris
C --- Channing Frye/Marcus Morris

Additionally, Durant missed a three point attempt that would have cut the lead to one with 14 seconds left in the game. He also missed a desperation heave with no time left from three, but that I cant really hold against him because it was a "scramble play" that was meaningless. The miss with 14 seconds was more consequential.

Thus, although Durant did have better stats than LeBron last night in each player's loss, both LeBron and Durant seemed to have their issues in their contests. Not a highlight night for the two men vying for the MVP.

[James Rustles]

Must say, I'm surprised NBA.com's MVP ladder still has LeBron as #1.

I think if LeBron was doing exactly what Durant was doing right now, he'd be the MVP and in the eyes of the media it wouldn't even be close.

Better stats, better record, tougher conference, no all star teammates, etc.

[hisairness]

Must say, I'm surprised NBA.com's MVP ladder still has LeBron as #1.

I think if LeBron was doing exactly what Durant was doing right now, he'd be the MVP and in the eyes of the media it wouldn't even be close.

Better stats, better record, tougher conference, no all star teammates, etc.

Like I said at some point in the previous thread; in boxing, if you are a challenger and you don't win by KO or dominate the fight you're unlikely to win a championship belt if it's a close decision going to the judges. This race kind of seems like that, no matter how many punches KD connected with, Lebron has few powerful swings and the media has him back on top. ESPN rarely gave extended coverage to any of KD's games since the all-star break but has systematically build up hype and momentum for Lebron. KD's 42 pts in 3 quarters was almost an afterthought, it seems that unless he drops 50 he won't be a leading story anytime soon.

[36Mafia]

Must say, I'm surprised NBA.com's MVP ladder still has LeBron as #1.

I think if LeBron was doing exactly what Durant was doing right now, he'd be the MVP and in the eyes of the media it wouldn't even be close.

Better stats, better record, tougher conference, no all star teammates, etc.

You're surprised that the best player is the most valuable?

[James Rustles]

Must say, I'm surprised NBA.com's MVP ladder still has LeBron as #1.

I think if LeBron was doing exactly what Durant was doing right now, he'd be the MVP and in the eyes of the media it wouldn't even be close.

Better stats, better record, tougher conference, no all star teammates, etc.

You're surprised that the best player is the most valuable?

Don't know how anyone can say with a straight face that LeBron has been more valuable to the Heat than Durant has been to the Thunder this season.

if you want to give the MVP to the consensus best player, and Durant can't earn that title in the regular season regardless of what he does, then why not give LeBron the MVP before the season even starts?

[Greatness]

Durant should be leading but I do believe the media is itching to give LeBron a 5th MVP, regardless of what people say about "voter fatigue".

[Colbinii]

Must say, I'm surprised NBA.com's MVP ladder still has LeBron as #1.

I think if LeBron was doing exactly what Durant was doing right now, he'd be the MVP and in the eyes of the media it wouldn't even be close.

Better stats, better record, tougher conference, no all star teammates, etc.

Raw Stats, yes. Advanced Stats, no.
Oklahoma City has the same losses as Miami.
You need to stop kidding yourself. Your agenda is making you sound like you are uneducated in the NBA. Don't let your agenda rule your posts. Westbrook is better than Wade and Bosh, and Ibaka hasn't been a slouch either.

Don't know how anyone can say with a straight face that LeBron has been more valuable to the Heat than Durant has been to the Thunder this season.

if you want to give the MVP to the consensus best player, and Durant can't earn that title in the regular season regardless of what he does, then why not give LeBron the MVP before the season even starts?

LeBron has been more valuable to the Heat this year in my opinion. Look at what Westbrook has done since he has come back. Now, even if you think otherwise, which is perfectly understandable, where does the MVP award get defined as the Most Valuable Player to your team. I thought it was Most Valuable Player award, making the meaning of that up to the discrepancy of the voter, or in this case (I hope you aren't an MVP voter ), fan.

And to answer your second segment, it is reasonable as long as Lebron PROVES over the course of the season, which he has done, that he deserves the MVP award. Obviously if he were getting completely outplayed by a player (Think LeBron putting up Paul George like numbers) then Durant would be the obvious candidate. However, when it is basically a tie, and cases can be made for each player, the Champion and Better player will get the MVP. If you want to argue the system, bring it elsewhere. If you want to argue facts, by all means, keep posting in this thread. Or, how about Co-MVP?

[James Rustles]

Durant should be leading but I do believe the media is itching to give LeBron a 5th MVP, regardless of what people say about "voter fatigue".

Yup. You look at the stats of both from their last 10 games, and you're like, wow, this is the difference in play that completely negates Durant's January and OKC's better record? Where is the voter fatigue people have been complaining about?

To me it seems like the media has became so conscious of the voter fatigue phenomenon that LeBron came into the season as the heavy favorite to win the MVP. On the first trimester awards on ESPN, everyone had LeBron as the MVP and acted like it wasn't even close and multiple people cited things like "I don't want to give the MVP to anyone else just because I'm bored of LeBron's greatness."

But then Durant's play without Westbrook stopped all of that hype right in it's tracks. And then LeBron scored 61 on the Bobcats and it was the greatest scoring performance ever and now he's the favorite again

[ssenbonzakura]

Must say, I'm surprised NBA.com's MVP ladder still has LeBron as #1.

I think if LeBron was doing exactly what Durant was doing right now, he'd be the MVP and in the eyes of the media it wouldn't even be close.

Better stats, better record, tougher conference, no all star teammates, etc.

You're surprised that the best player is the most valuable?

Don't know how anyone can say with a straight face that LeBron has been more valuable to the Heat than Durant has been to the Thunder this season.

if you want to give the MVP to the consensus best player, and Durant can't earn that title in the regular season regardless of what he does, then why not give LeBron the MVP before the season even starts?

You can make a case for both candidates and you won't be wrong. This is not like the Drose and Lebron race. Lebron is very valuable to the heat. Everything the heat does runs through him. He leads the team in ppg, assists and rebounds. Sure he's the best player, but saying he's not as valuable as durant is to the thunder is just not reasonable imo, and it's flat out wrong.

This race is tight, and it'll come down to team records. Neither KD or LJ can blink from here on out. Who ever flinches by dropping the most games is not going to be mvp. For durant it'll be a shame if he doesn't win this year, because he's been very very very good. I'll state my bias and say I'm pulling for Lebron as a heat fan. May all the games be meaningful and good till the end of the season.

[James Rustles]

Must say, I'm surprised NBA.com's MVP ladder still has LeBron as #1.

I think if LeBron was doing exactly what Durant was doing right now, he'd be the MVP and in the eyes of the media it wouldn't even be close.

Better stats, better record, tougher conference, no all star teammates, etc.

Raw Stats, yes. Advanced Stats, no.
Oklahoma City has the same losses as Miami.
You need to stop kidding yourself. Your agenda is making you sound like you are uneducated in the NBA. Don't let your agenda rule your posts. Westbrook is better than Wade and Bosh, and Ibaka hasn't been a slouch either.

Don't know how anyone can say with a straight face that LeBron has been more valuable to the Heat than Durant has been to the Thunder this season.

if you want to give the MVP to the consensus best player, and Durant can't earn that title in the regular season regardless of what he does, then why not give LeBron the MVP before the season even starts?

LeBron has been more valuable to the Heat this year in my opinion. Look at what Westbrook has done since he has come back. Now, even if you think otherwise, which is perfectly understandable, where does the MVP award get defined as the Most Valuable Player to your team. I thought it was Most Valuable Player award, making the meaning of that up to the discrepancy of the voter, or in this case (I hope you aren't an MVP voter ), fan.

And to answer your second segment, it is reasonable as long as Lebron PROVES over the course of the season, which he has done, that he deserves the MVP award. Obviously if he were getting completely outplayed by a player (Think LeBron putting up Paul George like numbers) then Durant would be the obvious candidate. However, when it is basically a tie, and cases can be made for each player, the Champion and Better player will get the MVP. If you want to argue the system, bring it elsewhere. If you want to argue facts, by all means, keep posting in this thread. Or, how about Co-MVP?

Still don't know how you can say with a straight face LeBron has been more valuable to Miami than Durant has been to OKC. OKC has one more loss in 10 more games without Westbrook than the Heat have in 10 less games without Wade. And throughout that duration of play, their whole entire offense was literally "Save us Durant" and it worked. Plus they beat plenty of quality teams as well. The Rockets, the Spurs and Blazers on a b2b, the Heat, the Warriors, the list goes on.

Don't know how LeBron has been more valuable leading his team in the easier conference, with better circumstances, to a worse record, while putting up worse stats.