Cap Space Questions

[dukeknicksirish]

So what is the cap looking for next year? I know everybody is on the Love Boat, but what about money after that? Do you think Chandler Parsons is an option? Drafting Embijd to replace Pau if he doesn't want to sign for less money? Can I get some help?

[GeorgeDillion]

With the capholds (Roster/Rookie) we have about $20 Million to spend, if Nash retires we have close to about $30 Million. The only other options we have to bring in players would be the room exception for around $2.7 Million, vets minimum and engaging in a sign and trade with players like Pau or Hill going out.

[tviper]

With the capholds (Roster/Rookie) we have about $20 Million to spend, if Nash retires we have close to about $30 Million. The only other options we have to bring in players would be the room exception for around $2.7 Million, vets minimum and engaging in a sign and trade with players like Pau or Hill going out.

From my calculations below, looks more like 15M available, but that assumes cap holds for everyone (doubt Meeks and Brooks will be charged against cap):

Projected Cap=62.9M

Committed Salary
Kobe=23.5M
Nash=9.7M
Sacre=915,243
Total committed(C)=34,116,243

Cap Holds (not including Pau, Hill, Kaman)
Marshon Brooks 2,179,354
Jodie Meeks 2,015,000
Jordan Farmar 915,243
Wesley Johnson 915,243
Xavier Henry 915,243
Kendall Marshall 915,243
Kent Bazemore 915,243 (QO=1,115,243)
Ryan Kelly 816,482 (QO=1,016,482)
Roster Charge 507,336
Total Cap Holds(H)=10,094,387

Pick(P)=3,214,200 (assuming 3rd pick)

Total Available=62.9-C-H-P=15,475,170

Note: For every player renounced or leaving via FA substitute the roster charge for their cap hold to get a new total available number.

[ak7]

You can all but bet all of those guys who will have cap holds will get their rights waived. None of those guys are going to likely get 4 year deals elsewhere so it serves little to no purpose for the Lakers to keep their rights.

[GeorgeDillion]

The reason we have different numbers is because you used the individual player’s capholds and I used roster holds.

In my example we would have:

Kobe = 23.5M
Nash = 9.7M
Sacre = 915,243
Marshall = 915,243 (Team Option)
Pick = 3,214,200
8 Roster holds @$507,336 each = 4,058,688

Total = 42,303,374

Total Available = 62.5-42.3 = 20.1

Obviously it changes if we end up with the #1 pick but it only changes by $1 Million I believe. If Nash retires or is somehow dumped to a team like the Jazz for nothing it goes up to around $29.8 Million.

I didn’t count Young because he’s going to opt out.

[tviper]

The reason we have different numbers is because you used the individual player’s capholds and I used roster holds.

In my example we would have:

Kobe = 23.5M
Nash = 9.7M
Sacre = 915,243
Marshall = 915,243 (Team Option)
Pick = 3,214,200
8 Roster holds @$507,336 each = 4,058,688

Total = 42,303,374

Total Available = 62.5-42.3 = 20.1

Obviously it changes if we end up with the #1 pick but it only changes by $1 Million I believe. If Nash retires or is somehow dumped to a team like the Jazz for nothing it goes up to around $29.8 Million.

I didn’t count Young because he’s going to opt out.

Yes, I didn't count Young either. I don't think it is likely for the FO to renounce everyone in 2014 (unlike 2015 where it is very likely). For example, I would be surprised if Bazemore wasn't extended the QO and if Farmar, Marshall, Wes, Kelly, or X were renounced. Really serves no purpose unless every $ is needed for Melo+FA, and you would need a Nash retirement to fit another FA which doesn't appear likely at this stage.

[GeorgeDillion]

Even if we extended the QO to Bazemore it only effects an additional $600,000 off my numbers, Kelly on the other hand barely has a market for him and if we do renounce him and resign him he would only be making close to his QO anyway, Farmar on the other hand doesn't matter because we don't own his bird rights so we can't go over the cap to sign him anyway besides using the room exception or vets minimum.

If you were making an argument for Meeks over Kelly or Farmar being renounced I could understand because we have early bird on him I believe, but not renouncing Farmar or Kelly doesn't make sense.

[DEEP3CL]

With the capholds (Roster/Rookie) we have about $20 Million to spend, if Nash retires we have close to about $30 Million. The only other options we have to bring in players would be the room exception for around $2.7 Million, vets minimum and engaging in a sign and trade with players like Pau or Hill going out.

From my calculations below, looks more like 15M available, but that assumes cap holds for everyone (doubt Meeks and Brooks will be charged against cap):

Projected Cap=62.9M

Committed Salary
Kobe=23.5M
Nash=9.7M
Sacre=915,243
Total committed(C)=34,116,243

Cap Holds (not including Pau, Hill, Kaman)
Marshon Brooks 2,179,354
Jodie Meeks 2,015,000
Jordan Farmar 915,243
Wesley Johnson 915,243
Xavier Henry 915,243
Kendall Marshall 915,243
Kent Bazemore 915,243 (QO=1,115,243)
Ryan Kelly 816,482 (QO=1,016,482)
Roster Charge 507,336
Total Cap Holds(H)=10,094,387

Pick(P)=3,214,200 (assuming 3rd pick)

Total Available=62.9-C-H-P=15,475,170

Note: For every player renounced or leaving via FA substitute the roster charge for their cap hold to get a new total available number.

You guys have to remember the Lakers have to renounce the rights to some of these guys, that eliminates the cap holds. Eliminating the cap holds will give them extra cap space.

This summer, the Lakers would need to renounce the rights to all of their players whose contracts end after the 2013-14 season. That includes Steve Blake, Jordan Hill, Chris Kaman, Jodie Meeks, Jordan Farmar, Wesley Johnson and Gasol.

http://www.sbnation.com/nba/2013/11/25/ ... lo-anthony

So if the Lakers want any of those guys back they'd have to sign them without an exception, which won't happen.

[DEEP3CL]

http://www.shamsports.com/2013/07/compl ... ments.html

Look at some of the teams that are winning now or have been winning for a good period of time. But yet some wonder why they can't win a title. You gotta pay to win in this league.

[RamAthorn101]

With the capholds (Roster/Rookie) we have about $20 Million to spend, if Nash retires we have close to about $30 Million. The only other options we have to bring in players would be the room exception for around $2.7 Million, vets minimum and engaging in a sign and trade with players like Pau or Hill going out.

So if we S&T players like Pau and Hill it doesn't count against our avalible cap space?

[GeorgeDillion]

No as long as it occurs after the space is used, because you can still sign and trade renounced players.

90. Can a free agent be signed and immediately traded?

A sign-and-trade deal can be made with a free agent who has been renounced, as long as all the above criteria are met.

http://www.cbafaq.com/salarycap.htm

[tviper]

Even if we extended the QO to Bazemore it only effects an additional $600,000 off my numbers, Kelly on the other hand barely has a market for him and if we do renounce him and resign him he would only be making close to his QO anyway, Farmar on the other hand doesn't matter because we don't own his bird rights so we can't go over the cap to sign him anyway besides using the room exception or vets minimum.

If you were making an argument for Meeks over Kelly or Farmar being renounced I could understand because we have early bird on him I believe, but not renouncing Farmar or Kelly doesn't make sense.

"it only effects an additional $600,000 off my numbers"

yes, that is the point I am making. the decision to renounce or not (the min guys) does not significantly change anything unless you need every last dollar.

I agree with you on Kelly, but his cap hold is only $300K more than the roster charge. Farmar might matter because you have non-Bird on him (as well as the others) meaning that you can pay 120% of previous salary. That is more than the minimum which may make a difference to one of the players mentioned (even if you use the room exception on Farmar).

Despite what I wrote on this thread answering the question, I actually think that Melo+Monroe is a viable option in which case many of these guys will need to be renounced (because every last $ will be needed). See the Melo thread: viewtopic.php?f=19&t=1307294

Edit: possible scenario: Melo wants to come and makes it known he will come if Phil coaches, and Phil makes same decision (to coach short term if Melo comes). In that case, you would renounce everyone except (likely) Bazemore to get enough space to sign another FA after Nash's contract is dealt with. Farmar could be signed using the room exception or you could hold him and sign him using non-Bird exception.

[HoopsterJones]

Only way Pau Gasol even agrees to a sign and trade in my opinion is if it's for big money (doubt it) or if he will be traded to a possible contender. Otherwise why would he agree to it when he can just sign where he chooses to?

[Big_Cat]

So what is the cap looking for next year? I know everybody is on the Love Boat, but what about money after that? Do you think Chandler Parsons is an option? Drafting Embijd to replace Pau if he doesn't want to sign for less money? Can I get some help?

Basically, to answer your question.

If Love is the target. Then between this offseason and next offseason, Lakers can only spend about $14 million on 6-8 players combined. (I'm pretty sure Lakers do not have a MLE next year, because you do not get a MLE if you start the free agency under the cap I believe, not sure if the new CBA changed anything)

Something along the lines of

$25 mil - Kobe
$17 mil - Love
$4 mil - Draft Pick
$14 mil - 6-8 players
$1.6 mil - Biannual Exception

[Big_Cat]

Only way Pau Gasol even agrees to a sign and trade in my opinion is if it's for big money (doubt it) or if he will be traded to a possible contender. Otherwise why would he agree to it when he can just sign where he chooses to?

Completely agreed and on point. The odds of Gasol being sign and traded is basically 0.

Teams that have the cap space would just flat out sign Gasol outright. Signing with your original team doesn't provide any additional benefits anymore (unlike Lebron/Bosh in 2010). Teams that are contending and don't have the cap space, won't be offering anything the Lakers desire, unless if Mitch values expiring contracts...which makes zero sense considering Gasol wouldn't be on the books anyways.

[GeorgeDillion]

The sign and trade only helps Pau if he wants to go to a playoff team and get his money, the only playoff teams that have the money to sign Pau out right next season would be the Mavs and Suns other than that his options are limited money wise.

[Big_Cat]

The sign and trade only helps Pau if he wants to go to a playoff team and get his money, the only playoff teams that have the money to sign Pau out right next season would be the Mavs and Suns other than that his options are limited money wise.

How many playoff teams can really afford to give up $10-$12 million in leaving salary and not have it impact their current team? And the ones that can, can really only give up crummy players like Perkins.

[GeorgeDillion]

Possibly Memphis for Z-bo since they want to save tax money and we get a place holder for next season, there's even ways of doing it with teams that can sign him outright just take the Kevin Martin situation from last season with the Thunder and Wolves:

"In a somewhat complicated sign-and-trade agreement that has Kevin Martin inking a near $30 million deal with the Wolves, the Thunder are gaining a $7 million trade exception.

Here’s how that works: The Thunder are sending the Wolves cash to make it worth their while because they could just sign Martin outright."

http://dailythunder.com/2013/07/thunder ... and-trade/

[Big_Cat]

Possibly Memphis for Z-bo since they want to save tax money and we get a place holder for next season, there's even ways of doing it with teams that can sign him outright just take the Kevin Martin situation from last season with the Thunder and Wolves:

"In a somewhat complicated sign-and-trade agreement that has Kevin Martin inking a near $30 million deal with the Wolves, the Thunder are gaining a $7 million trade exception.

Here’s how that works: The Thunder are sending the Wolves cash to make it worth their while because they could just sign Martin outright."

http://dailythunder.com/2013/07/thunder ... and-trade/

Hmm, I guess it's possible, but extremely difficult (the Kevin Martin situation).

I believe the main/only reason Timberwolves even did the sign and trade was to get rid of Ridnour's expiring salary. So it was a $4-5 million dollar cash savings move to do the sign and trade opposed to signing him outright.

[HoopsterJones]

Pau could join the Blazers or the Spurs who have about maybe $5-7 million (depending on cap holds) in cap space for next year. Two contenders in the West.