Contingency.....

[diesel50]

IF the Lakers get the #1 pick overall... who would be against us giving them Horford for it?

I don't think that Kobe wants to spend the last 2 yrs of his career in a rebuild. Horford is a perfect Laker PF. This gives us the chance to get Embiid who looks like a defensive beast.

In the trade, we may have to take back a retiring Nash. Let him buy out his contract... and sign with Phoenix to retire.

So the trade is Horf for Nash/1st overall 2014. If the Lakers win the lottery.

This gives the Lakers 2 more shots with a Kobe/Horf/FA roster.

This cements our rebuild with 2 first rounders.

[azuresou1]

Lakers are not going to trade the #1 for Horford - they will just tell Kobe to suck it up or retire.

[MaceCase]

I imagine that the Lakers COULD trade their pick if it was #1 but it would most definitely be for a true star like saaaaaaay Kevin Love rather than Al. Other than that I imagine that they'd keep Embiid as a continuation of their long history of great big men from Mikan, Wilt, KAJ, Shaq, Bynum and Dwight and resign Pau for the interim.

[dms269]

I can't imagine them trading 1 for Horford.

I can understand the reasoning for doing a 1 for star type of deal, but the need to start looking past Kobe.

[diesel50]

I can't imagine them trading 1 for Horford.

I can understand the reasoning for doing a 1 for star type of deal, but the need to start looking past Kobe.

That was in November. There is no looking past Kobe. Here's the thing.. IF they are really interested in Looking past Kobe, they need to trade him to a contender. Now ask yourself.. do you think that will happen??

[dms269]

I can't imagine them trading 1 for Horford.

I can understand the reasoning for doing a 1 for star type of deal, but the need to start looking past Kobe.

That was in November. There is no looking past Kobe. Here's the thing.. IF they are really interested in Looking past Kobe, they need to trade him to a contender. Now ask yourself.. do you think that will happen??

I think there is looking past Kobe. He is 35 and signed for 2 more years. Trading the number 1 (or a top 3 for that matter) for an older player (not even sure Love would be a good idea due to his contract situation).

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[diesel50]

I think there is looking past Kobe. He is 35 and signed for 2 more years. Trading the number 1 (or a top 3 for that matter) for an older player (not even sure Love would be a good idea due to his contract situation).

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Michael Jordan was leading the league in scoring, winning the finals, and holding up the finals MVP at Kobe's age. His age is not a problem. IN fact, If the Lakers go to trade Kobe, I really hope that Ferry is one of the first calls they receive.

[ATL Boy]

I think there is looking past Kobe. He is 35 and signed for 2 more years. Trading the number 1 (or a top 3 for that matter) for an older player (not even sure Love would be a good idea due to his contract situation).

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Michael Jordan was leading the league in scoring, winning the finals, and holding up the finals MVP at Kobe's age. His age is not a problem. IN fact, If the Lakers go to trade Kobe, I really hope that Ferry is one of the first calls they receive.

You can't look at age, you have to look the grind: Michael Jordan spent three years playing at the college level, while Kobe went into the NBA right out of highschool. Kobe also just missed an entire season due to lingering knee issues and a torn achilles (considered by some as the worst injury in sports). Michael Jordan was playing in just his 12th NBA season without much of an injury history during his last title run in 1998 (remember he also took a couple years off to play baseball). Kobe is my favorite player but there is no way that I'd want to trade for him given his recent injury history, amount of years played, and massive contract over the next two years.

[Rip2137]

Also Michael Jordan was kinda twice the player Kobe is and his team was better. You can't just throw out age and say "see!!" Jordan at 35 had a Hall of Fame coach, a hall of fame small forward, a hall of fame power forward, a international hall of fame 6th man, the best 3point shooter percentage wise EVER, a former Allstar at the "point guard" position....

Lets just say that Lakers don't have that.

Also...Kobe isn't nearly as good as Michael.

[MaceCase]

I think there is looking past Kobe. He is 35 and signed for 2 more years. Trading the number 1 (or a top 3 for that matter) for an older player (not even sure Love would be a good idea due to his contract situation).

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Love's contract is a situation predominantly for the Wolves though and whether or not that they can retain him. Most have been speculating for years that he wants to be a Laker whether he opts out in 2015 or lets his deal run through it's end in 2016 so trading for him beforehand only expedites the timetable of making him the new face of the franchise.

It works out either way for them though, they can keep the pick and let Kobe bridge the gap while the prospect develops and just go out and sign Love anyway. But we all mostly agree that they are looking past Kobe, he is only on that contract because he can still generate revenue but I doubt that they sacrifice what they have on the court for him.

[dms269]

I think there is looking past Kobe. He is 35 and signed for 2 more years. Trading the number 1 (or a top 3 for that matter) for an older player (not even sure Love would be a good idea due to his contract situation).

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Michael Jordan was leading the league in scoring, winning the finals, and holding up the finals MVP at Kobe's age. His age is not a problem. IN fact, If the Lakers go to trade Kobe, I really hope that Ferry is one of the first calls they receive.

Actually at Kobe's age Michael was retired.

Kobe has played 5 more season that Michael had at their current ages. Michael did come back for two more, but Kobe still would have played3 more seasons as of today.

Kobe is on the downside of his career, especially with his huge salary this year and a large salary for the next two. The Lakers need a young star to start to build around.

[diesel50]

I think there is looking past Kobe. He is 35 and signed for 2 more years. Trading the number 1 (or a top 3 for that matter) for an older player (not even sure Love would be a good idea due to his contract situation).

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Michael Jordan was leading the league in scoring, winning the finals, and holding up the finals MVP at Kobe's age. His age is not a problem. IN fact, If the Lakers go to trade Kobe, I really hope that Ferry is one of the first calls they receive.

You can't look at age, you have to look the grind: Michael Jordan spent three years playing at the college level, while Kobe went into the NBA right out of highschool. Kobe also just missed an entire season due to lingering knee issues and a torn achilles (considered by some as the worst injury in sports). Michael Jordan was playing in just his 12th NBA season without much of an injury history during his last title run in 1998 (remember he also took a couple years off to play baseball). Kobe is my favorite player but there is no way that I'd want to trade for him given his recent injury history, amount of years played, and massive contract over the next two years.

Actually, Kobe came off the bench for the first two years as a player. Remember, the Lakers had Eddie Jones. Moreover, Jordan was injured year 2 with what for some had been a career ending injury (at the time). But the time off to play baseball is noted. Now do you think that playing Baseball saved him for basketball?? I'm not asking as being sure... I just know that there are different muscle groups at work and MJ didn't take much time off.

Lastly. IF the Lakers were shopping Kobe and willing to take any player or 2 players we have, I would give it quickly. You can't beat the amount of press that we would get. Some moves are not about winning, but about putting the team on the map and growing a fan base. This is one of those moves. IF any team ever needed a real superstar, it's us.

[diesel50]

Actually at Kobe's age Michael was retired.

Fraid not. Kobe turned 35 in Aug. Mike turned 35 in the FEB of his last year with the Lakers. At which point, he was leading the league in scoring, he won his 6th championship, and he was named Championship MVP after scoring 33.5 ppg in that series.
THEN Jordan came back to the League 3 yrs later and was still more than servicable for the next 2 years.

[MaceCase]

1) pay attention to the large number of fat asses that perform at an ELITE level within baseball to understand that there is a huge difference in conditioning and exertion for athletes. For an NBA player, going into baseball could be looked at as an extended round of Sunday golf given the hours of sitting and standing around as opposed to actually being required to run and jump every 24 seconds.

2) LA cannot shop Kobe, he has a full no trade clause so you would have to offer him a situation where he would not only feel he could win a championship but also not trade much to get him which would complicate LA desiring to execute the deal.

[dms269]

Actually at Kobe's age Michael was retired.

Fraid not. Kobe turned 35 in Aug. Mike turned 35 in the FEB of his last year with the Lakers. At which point, he was leading the league in scoring, he won his 6th championship, and he was named Championship MVP after scoring 33.5 ppg in that series.
THEN Jordan came back to the League 3 yrs later and was still more than servicable for the next 2 years.

If you are going to split hairs like that then it is impossible to argue with you. I can go further and say, while not retired, Jordan was already out of basketball at Kobe's current age (35 years and 6 months plus some days). That would have put MJ in July after they won the title (he didn't officially retired until the next January).

The fact is still there that Kobe has more miles on his legs than Jordan does.

[dms269]

1) pay attention to the large number of fat asses that perform at an ELITE level within baseball to understand that there is a huge difference in conditioning and exertion for athletes. For an NBA player, going into baseball could be looked at as an extended round of Sunday golf given the hours of sitting and standing around as opposed to actually being required to run and jump every 24 seconds.

Baseball and Basketball are two different animals in terms of comparison and conditioning. MJ went into AA baseball and was horrible, hitting .202. While there are "fat asses" in Baseball, you can look at the positions they play and they do require small amounts of running. You won't find any fat ass center fielders, that's for sure.

[MaceCase]

1) pay attention to the large number of fat asses that perform at an ELITE level within baseball to understand that there is a huge difference in conditioning and exertion for athletes. For an NBA player, going into baseball could be looked at as an extended round of Sunday golf given the hours of sitting and standing around as opposed to actually being required to run and jump every 24 seconds.

Baseball and Basketball are two different animals in terms of comparison and conditioning. MJ went into AA baseball and was horrible, hitting .202. While there are "fat asses" in Baseball, you can look at the positions they play and they do require small amounts of running. You won't find any fat ass center fielders, that's for sure.

Well baseball is predominantly a skill game which is precisely why overweight and especially older players can be effective well into their late 30s despite reduced or nonexistent athleticism. Yes there are certain positions like CF and roles like lead off or pinch runner where you would require a more athletic player but generally you could generally survive as long as you can catch, throw and hit.

MJ could probably run the bases a hundred times in a single inning without breaking a sweat but it didn't matter because he couldn't hit to save his life. His athleticism could have been an edge for him but he didn't have the requisite skill to actually take advantage of it within the confines of the sport. Either way it's doubtful he had any amount of wear and tear during his hiatus playing baseball that would have impacted his ability to play basketball.

[diesel50]

When I mentioned baseball and basketball differences, I was thinking more along the lines of basketball being a continuous jog vs. Baseball being a case of short but powerful bursts of speed. When a baseball player runs, it's more like a 40 yard dash and when a basketball player run, it's more like somebody running the 200. Although both are running, they are doing two different things and I imagine working two different muscle groups. I imagine that MJ couldn't succeed in baseball due to batspeed and not realizing that he had to retrain himself how to run hard.

[azuresou1]

In baseball immediately after you make contact with the ball you usually have a very good idea if there's even a shot you'll get to first base, or if you can just mail it in and jog because you're definitely out. Also, most sprinting happens while stealing bases, which requires getting on base.

Given Mike's batting average, I think it's safe to say he didn't sprint often.

Back to more relevant conversation, Kobe's coming off two major injuries and has more MP than almost anyone else in league history. His days as a superstar are DONE. Lakers are not mortgaging their future to prop up his final days.

[diesel50]

In baseball immediately after you make contact with the ball you usually have a very good idea if there's even a shot you'll get to first base, or if you can just mail it in and jog because you're definitely out. Also, most sprinting happens while stealing bases, which requires getting on base.

Given Mike's batting average, I think it's safe to say he didn't sprint often.

Back to more relevant conversation, Kobe's coming off two major injuries and has more MP than almost anyone else in league history. His days as a superstar are DONE. Lakers are not mortgaging their future to prop up his final days.

You will learn to never doubt the Kobe brand of Performance Enhancement materials.