Knicks-Related Trade "THOUGHTS" Thread - Part Deux

[Marty McFly]

Don't think a lot of ppl would do this, but it might be a good move to send THJ and/or Chump for Hayward. Young, could get him on a decent deal (5/50?) and is just a good all around player. Reunite THJ with Burke! Chump I really don't care about. He's a goner this season id rather see it done for another young cat than the inevitable Gordon deal we'll make.

I love Affalo. Two way is THE way should be the the motto moving fwd whether your building around Melo or starting from scratch.

I would love hayward, we don't have enough to get him.

You think Chump and THJ wouldn't be enough? I know they love him in Utah.

if the knicks can, by all means.

[DowNY]

http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=lppkjfv

Westbrook is more of a Phil/Melo guy than Rondo would be. I would love if Phil 1st move is something crazy like this. Flipping a player that everyone thought the Knicks coveted, into a player that the Knicks need.

Knicks acquire - Russell Westbrook, Gerald Wallace, Kendrick Perkins & Keith Bogans

Thunder acquire - Rajon Rondo, Tyson Chandler, Jeff Green, Raymond Felton & JR Smith

Celtics acquire - Reggie Jackson, Iman Shumpert, Perry Jones III, Nick Collison, Andrea Bargnani, Hasheem Thabeet, Thabo Sefolosha (S&T for 1 year, more money), 2014 1st round pick via OKC, & 2018 1st round via NYK (lottery protected)

- Knicks do it to obtain Westbrook & still leave room for an extra player in 2015 (Love, Lebron or Aldridge) with Melo.
The possibility of Westbrook/Lebron/Melo under Phil Jackson is too good to think about.
Phil Jackson trumps Pat Riley instantly.

- Thunder becomes a complete team & probably best team next season. Everything fills out with this trade for them.
Rajon Rondo / Raymond Felton
Jeremy Lamb / JR Smith
Kevin Durant / Reggie Williams
Serge Ibaka / Jeff Green
Tyson Chandler / Steven Adams
Also don't see how Rondo doesn't agree to an extension playing with Kevin Durant.
He's the change of culture player that the Thunder & Durant needs.

- Celtics get cheap youth, expirings & out of all long term contracts. 2 1st round picks as well.
Rondo actually holds the leverage since he's expiring, so we might could even keep our pick in this good deal.

[JDLAW]

Wow this is an awful trade for the Thunder. Do you really think you can get Russell Westbrook for that slag from the Knicks roster?

[xNewYorkMadex]

I can see this happening during the summer.

Melo goes into free agency and both Chicago and Lakers both make impressive pitches. We dont really have squat to entice Melo until 2015, and in a panic move we tell Melo we can pair him with Josh Smith and get an upgrade at PG in the future.

We trade Bargnani + Shump for Josh Smith. Thats the move we will do to try and entice Melo to stay so we can build around him. I just feel Josh Smith will be a Knick if Melo decides to stay.

Melo takes a slight paycut to give us enough room to sign a free agent PG in 2015 or acquire one via trade. I would love to know what our cap situation looks like with Josh Smith on the team and Melo making about $20-$22 million in 2015.

Wrote this about 4 days ago. On the wiretap there is an article about how Josh Smith and Rajon Rondo casually talk about teaming up together one day. Smith says Rondo is his best friend in the league and their families take vacations together.

Since we are over the cap and luxury tax, we really dont have many deals to make. Cant acquire an impact player in free agency or acquire one via trade with our limited assets. Josh Smith is the type of player the FO will go after. Im not advocating that its a good move, especially without a proper PG and Head Coach in place, but its something they will definitely look into. Especially as a way to entice Melo to stay and promise Melo to get him a coach with pedigree and an upgrade at PG. Josh Smith is extremely talented, but his iq on offense is terrible. Maybe a coach with a system will keep him in check and get the best out of him.

Im not sure how much $ Melo will have to forfeit in his paycut in order to make this possible, but I do envision a lineup consisting of Josh Smith at the 4, Melo at 3 and Rondo at 1 by 2015. With a very good head coach to make things work. Smith, Rondo and Melo are all alumni of Oak Hill Academy. Smith and Rondo were once teammates.

This is all pre Phil Jackson btw. If Phil came in, im not sure if he would go that route. But if I was in the Knicks FO, that is a framework of a roster to possibly put together. Kill Josh Smith all you want, but with Melo + Rondo + a solid head coach in place is something I really wont mind.

I only want Smith with the contingency of Rondo and new coach.

[Marty McFly]

I can see this happening during the summer.

Melo goes into free agency and both Chicago and Lakers both make impressive pitches. We dont really have squat to entice Melo until 2015, and in a panic move we tell Melo we can pair him with Josh Smith and get an upgrade at PG in the future.

We trade Bargnani + Shump for Josh Smith. Thats the move we will do to try and entice Melo to stay so we can build around him. I just feel Josh Smith will be a Knick if Melo decides to stay.

Melo takes a slight paycut to give us enough room to sign a free agent PG in 2015 or acquire one via trade. I would love to know what our cap situation looks like with Josh Smith on the team and Melo making about $20-$22 million in 2015.

Wrote this about 4 days ago. On the wiretap there is an article about how Josh Smith and Rajon Rondo casually talk about teaming up together one day. Smith says Rondo is his best friend in the league and their families take vacations together.

Since we are over the cap and luxury tax, we really dont have many deals to make. Cant acquire an impact player in free agency or acquire one via trade with our limited assets. Josh Smith is the type of player the FO will go after. Im not advocating that its a good move, especially without a proper PG and Head Coach in place, but its something they will definitely look into. Especially as a way to entice Melo to stay and promise Melo to get him a coach with pedigree and an upgrade at PG. Josh Smith is extremely talented, but his iq on offense is terrible. Maybe a coach with a system will keep him in check and get the best out of him.

Im not sure how much $ Melo will have to forfeit in his paycut in order to make this possible, but I do envision a lineup consisting of Josh Smith at the 4, Melo at 3 and Rondo at 1 by 2015. With a very good head coach to make things work. Smith, Rondo and Melo are all alumni of Oak Hill Academy. Smith and Rondo were once teammates.

This is all pre Phil Jackson btw. If Phil came in, im not sure if he would go that route. But if I was in the Knicks FO, that is a framework of a roster to possibly put together. Kill Josh Smith all you want, but with Melo + Rondo + a solid head coach in place is something I really wont mind.

I only want Smith with the contingency of Rondo and new coach.

the smith/rondo connection to ny was the first thing that popped into my head when i read that headline.

i really hope they don't go in that direction.

[Marty McFly]

i think what happens in the draft lottery could affect us.

if la wins, do they move kobe (to nyk) in order to build around wiggins/love in 2015?

what if boston or philly don't? would either team make a move for melo?

philly's got the space to sign him outright but could package thad young and a high pick to us clear even more capspace so they totally cash out on 2015. melo, mcw, noel, would be around 37 mill with 23 mill of capspace left for love in 2015 or noah/hibbert in 2016( where they'd have even more capsace, 30 mill to be exact.)


boston on the other has 18 mill in capspace and a high lottery pick. a top 5 pick might not necessarily be enough to change their fortunes overnight unless it's top 3. i think melo and tyson for wallace green and bass and a top 5 pick (plus a net pick) would be a swap that could benefit them now and us later.

[Put Back Dunk]

i think what happens in the draft lottery could affect us.

if la wins, do they move kobe (to nyk) in order to build around wiggins/love in 2015?

what if boston or philly don't? would either team make a move for melo?

philly's got the space to sign him outright but could package thad young and a high pick to us clear even more capspace so they totally cash out on 2015. melo, mcw, noel, would be around 37 mill with 23 mill of capspace left for love in 2015 or noah/hibbert in 2016( where they'd have even more capsace, 30 mill to be exact.)


boston on the other has 18 mill in capspace and a high lottery pick. a top 5 pick might not necessarily be enough to change their fortunes overnight unless it's top 3. i think melo and tyson for wallace green and bass and a top 5 pick (plus a net pick) would be a swap that could benefit them now and us later.

Celtics fan here - not trolling, just interested in where Melo might end up because I've had a hunch it might be here in Boston for some time. I'm glad to see someone outside of our board/fan base acknowledge that Danny Ainge isn't in complete fire sale mode and looking to trade Rondo just because we're rebuilding, and that we may in fact be a buyer this offseason. There's a million parallels between this year and 06-07 for us where we wiped the slate clean from the previous playoff team, held onto our best performer in his prime (Pierce then, Rondo now) and used all of those assets, or "chips" as Danny has openly referred to them, like cap space/expirings, young talent, and a boat load of picks to make moves to put us in contention.

In your proposed scenario however I would have to disagree that the Celtics would be interested in that specific deal to get Melo here. If the roles were reversed and the Knicks had Melo, a bunch of cap space, young players and picks to trade for help this summer and Rondo was becoming a free agent would you give up a top 5 pick, a player of Jeff Green's talent (not saying he's a star, but certainly not a throwaway in a trade like this to make salaries match) and one of the Nets picks on top that which potentially could be a great pick down the road? Wouldn't you just sign him in free agency? I get that Tyson Chandler would be in the mix, but if Melo leaves, even if it's to the Celtics, and IF Boston wanted him he could be had for a cheaper price - maybe Jeff Green is included in that deal instead. My guess is you will see Danny move this year's pick regardless of position for someone around the league that we can pair with Rondo into talking Melo to sign here for slightly less than the max - just like we did to get Ray Allen so that Kevin Garnett would agree to waive his no trade clause to come here in 07.

[Marty McFly]

Celtics fan here - not trolling, just interested in where Melo might end up because I've had a hunch it might be here in Boston for some time. I'm glad to see someone outside of our board/fan base acknowledge that Danny Ainge isn't in complete fire sale mode and looking to trade Rondo just because we're rebuilding, and that we may in fact be a buyer this offseason. There's a million parallels between this year and 06-07 for us where we wiped the slate clean from the previous playoff team, held onto our best performer in his prime (Pierce then, Rondo now) and used all of those assets, or "chips" as Danny has openly referred to them, like cap space/expirings, young talent, and a boat load of picks to make moves to put us in contention.

right, the parallels to the oden draft was the reason i even consider it an option. it wouldn't shock me if ainge dealt the pick to retool for another championship run.

In your proposed scenario however I would have to disagree that the Celtics would be interested in that specific deal to get Melo here. If the roles were reversed and the Knicks had Melo, a bunch of cap space, young players and picks to trade for help this summer and Rondo was becoming a free agent would you give up a top 5 pick, a player of Jeff Green's talent (not saying he's a star, but certainly not a throwaway in a trade like this to make salaries match) and one of the Nets picks on top that which potentially could be a great pick down the road?

well, that's what the knicks did. as far as that deal is concerned, the main pieces in the trade would be melo and the top 5 pick. all of the other articles aren't necessarily deal breakers, if the trade is even an option.

Wouldn't you just sign him in free agency? I get that Tyson Chandler would be in the mix, but if Melo leaves, even if it's to the Celtics, and IF Boston wanted him he could be had for a cheaper price - maybe Jeff Green is included in that deal instead. My guess is you will see Danny move this year's pick regardless of position for someone around the league that we can pair with Rondo into talking Melo to sign here for slightly less than the max - just like we did to get Ray Allen so that Kevin Garnett would agree to waive his no trade clause to come here in 07.

quite honestly, the only reason a sign and trade is even an option for us is because some of us doubt melo would take (say, a 4 million dollar) paycut in the celtics case.

[R-DAWG]

i think what happens in the draft lottery could affect us.

if la wins, do they move kobe (to nyk) in order to build around wiggins/love in 2015?

what if boston or philly don't? would either team make a move for melo?

philly's got the space to sign him outright but could package thad young and a high pick to us clear even more capspace so they totally cash out on 2015. melo, mcw, noel, would be around 37 mill with 23 mill of capspace left for love in 2015 or noah/hibbert in 2016( where they'd have even more capsace, 30 mill to be exact.)


boston on the other has 18 mill in capspace and a high lottery pick. a top 5 pick might not necessarily be enough to change their fortunes overnight unless it's top 3. i think melo and tyson for wallace green and bass and a top 5 pick (plus a net pick) would be a swap that could benefit them now and us later.

Celtics fan here - not trolling, just interested in where Melo might end up because I've had a hunch it might be here in Boston for some time. I'm glad to see someone outside of our board/fan base acknowledge that Danny Ainge isn't in complete fire sale mode and looking to trade Rondo just because we're rebuilding, and that we may in fact be a buyer this offseason. There's a million parallels between this year and 06-07 for us where we wiped the slate clean from the previous playoff team, held onto our best performer in his prime (Pierce then, Rondo now) and used all of those assets, or "chips" as Danny has openly referred to them, like cap space/expirings, young talent, and a boat load of picks to make moves to put us in contention.

In your proposed scenario however I would have to disagree that the Celtics would be interested in that specific deal to get Melo here. If the roles were reversed and the Knicks had Melo, a bunch of cap space, young players and picks to trade for help this summer and Rondo was becoming a free agent would you give up a top 5 pick, a player of Jeff Green's talent (not saying he's a star, but certainly not a throwaway in a trade like this to make salaries match) and one of the Nets picks on top that which potentially could be a great pick down the road? Wouldn't you just sign him in free agency? I get that Tyson Chandler would be in the mix, but if Melo leaves, even if it's to the Celtics, and IF Boston wanted him he could be had for a cheaper price - maybe Jeff Green is included in that deal instead. My guess is you will see Danny move this year's pick regardless of position for someone around the league that we can pair with Rondo into talking Melo to sign here for slightly less than the max - just like we did to get Ray Allen so that Kevin Garnett would agree to waive his no trade clause to come here in 07.

Jeff Green is not an asset bro, he's a liability. His production doesn't justify his contract. Is he as bad as Wallace, no. But from a value perspective we would prefer Wallace and one of the Nets picks along with Brandon Bass' expiring deal to make the math work. You would need to use an asset to clear Wallace anyway and you got an extra asset from the Nets for taking on Wallace. Melo alone is worth your lotto pick (assuming it's 4-6 as you would hold onto Embiid, Parker, Wiggins), 1 of the Nets picks and the Clippers 2015 pick. Then add in Wallace and the 2nd Nets pick.

2014 Lotto pick
2015 Clippers Pick
2016 Nets Pick
2018 Nets Pick
Gerald Wallace
Brandon Bass

for

Carmelo Anthony

We would consider this trade. Breaks down as Melo for a lotto pick plus 2 future picks, 1 (Clippers) that will be in the mid to late 20's and 1 that's a toss up. And then 1 pick for eating 2 years of Wallace's deal.

Maybe add in Tyson for 2 future BOS picks with protection.

[SuperflyKnick]

Celtics fan here - not trolling, just interested in where Melo might end up because I've had a hunch it might be here in Boston for some time. I'm glad to see someone outside of our board/fan base acknowledge that Danny Ainge isn't in complete fire sale mode and looking to trade Rondo just because we're rebuilding, and that we may in fact be a buyer this offseason. There's a million parallels between this year and 06-07 for us where we wiped the slate clean from the previous playoff team, held onto our best performer in his prime (Pierce then, Rondo now) and used all of those assets, or "chips" as Danny has openly referred to them, like cap space/expirings, young talent, and a boat load of picks to make moves to put us in contention.

In your proposed scenario however I would have to disagree that the Celtics would be interested in that specific deal to get Melo here. If the roles were reversed and the Knicks had Melo, a bunch of cap space, young players and picks to trade for help this summer and Rondo was becoming a free agent would you give up a top 5 pick, a player of Jeff Green's talent (not saying he's a star, but certainly not a throwaway in a trade like this to make salaries match) and one of the Nets picks on top that which potentially could be a great pick down the road? Wouldn't you just sign him in free agency? I get that Tyson Chandler would be in the mix, but if Melo leaves, even if it's to the Celtics, and IF Boston wanted him he could be had for a cheaper price - maybe Jeff Green is included in that deal instead. My guess is you will see Danny move this year's pick regardless of position for someone around the league that we can pair with Rondo into talking Melo to sign here for slightly less than the max - just like we did to get Ray Allen so that Kevin Garnett would agree to waive his no trade clause to come here in 07.[/quote]

Garnett and Ray Allen were traded to Boston neither signed there as FA's so its a different scenario. I dont even remember the last time boston actually signed a premiere Free agent so what makes you think Carmelo will sign with them and at a discounted price ?

[dakomish23]

If the C's wanted 2 unprotected picks for Rondo coming off the injury, expect the Knicks to at least want that back. Would be great if it's the BKN pick 2018

[NYKHardKnock]

Sign and trade Carmelo to the Bulls on draft day..

Knicks get
2014 Bobcats & Bulls 1st round
2015 Bulls 1st round
2016 Bulls 1st round
Jimmy Butler
Tony Snell

Bulls get
Carmelo Anthony
Iman Shumpert

[Context]

With Phil in town melo ain't going no where...

[navyblue]

Sign and trade Carmelo to the Bulls on draft day..

Knicks get
2014 Bobcats & Bulls 1st round
2015 Bulls 1st round
2016 Bulls 1st round
Jimmy Butler
Tony Snell

Bulls get
Carmelo Anthony
Iman Shumpert

boozer will have to be included to make numbers work.

but if that is the return you expect, bulls would rather just amnesty boozer, trade gibson for picks and sign melo outright.
that way they keep butler, noah, get melo and have tons of picks going forward.

you can push the bulls so far for it to make sense for them(2 first rounders and snell), but you cant ask for the farm from them.

[Marty McFly]

if the knicks retain melo and decide to implement the triangle, i would like to see tyson for nic batum. there was some interest for tyson on the blazers side. he's expiring after next season while batum has 2 more years left at 11 mill. on an off year on a worse team, tyson's per is better than batum's. for us, we get the guy who was peg as scottie pippen jr, at the tender age of 25.

[R-DAWG]

Sign and trade Carmelo to the Bulls on draft day..

Knicks get
2014 Bobcats & Bulls 1st round
2015 Bulls 1st round
2016 Bulls 1st round
Jimmy Butler
Tony Snell

Bulls get
Carmelo Anthony
Iman Shumpert

boozer will have to be included to make numbers work.

but if that is the return you expect, bulls would rather just amnesty boozer, trade gibson for picks and sign melo outright.
that way they keep butler, noah, get melo and have tons of picks going forward.

you can push the bulls so far for it to make sense for them(2 first rounders and snell), but you cant ask for the farm from them.

Your making a big assumption that the Bulls can trade both Gibson and Dunleavy without taking any salary back. This would also include renouncing Kirk Hinrich's bid rights, giving up the mid level and bi annual exceptions, and a notoriously cheap owner eating $16.8 million. If the Bulls get Melo they are better off with Hinrich and Dunleavy than 2 additional picks. Additionally, they will be better off with Taj on the roster for when they play big teams.

The Knicks have a ton of leverage here:
Keeping Hinrich = 1 1st rd pick
Keeping Dunleavy = 1 1st rd pick
Keeping Gibson = 1 1st rd pick
Having the mid level exception = 1 1st rd pick

So that's 4 first rd picks heading from CHI to NY.

Then there is compensation for Melo which should be in my opinion one of either Mirotic or Butler, with Mirotic making the most sense.

If the Bulls are serious about making a title run with Melo they are better off holding onto the vets than future draft picks.

Noah/Bi Annual
Gibson/Mid Level
Anthony/Dunleavy
Butler/Snell
Rose/Hinrich

vs

Noah
Anthoy
Butler
Snell
Rose
1 player signed with the room exception
A bunch of min sal guys

Big difference.

[TyrusRose2425]

Sign and trade Carmelo to the Bulls on draft day..

Knicks get
2014 Bobcats & Bulls 1st round
2015 Bulls 1st round
2016 Bulls 1st round
Jimmy Butler
Tony Snell

Bulls get
Carmelo Anthony
Iman Shumpert

boozer will have to be included to make numbers work.

but if that is the return you expect, bulls would rather just amnesty boozer, trade gibson for picks and sign melo outright.
that way they keep butler, noah, get melo and have tons of picks going forward.

you can push the bulls so far for it to make sense for them(2 first rounders and snell), but you cant ask for the farm from them.

Your making a big assumption that the Bulls can trade both Gibson and Dunleavy without taking any salary back. This would also include renouncing Kirk Hinrich's bid rights, giving up the mid level and bi annual exceptions, and a notoriously cheap owner eating $16.8 million. If the Bulls get Melo they are better off with Hinrich and Dunleavy than 2 additional picks. Additionally, they will be better off with Taj on the roster for when they play big teams.

The Knicks have a ton of leverage here:
Keeping Hinrich = 1 1st rd pick
Keeping Dunleavy = 1 1st rd pick
Keeping Gibson = 1 1st rd pick
Having the mid level exception = 1 1st rd pick

So that's 4 first rd picks heading from CHI to NY.

Then there is compensation for Melo which should be in my opinion one of either Mirotic or Butler, with Mirotic making the most sense.

If the Bulls are serious about making a title run with Melo they are better off holding onto the vets than future draft picks.

Noah/Bi Annual
Gibson/Mid Level
Anthony/Dunleavy
Butler/Snell
Rose/Hinrich

vs

Noah
Anthoy
Butler
Snell
Rose
1 player signed with the room exception
A bunch of min sal guys

Big difference.

I'm sorry but you're completely off. On one hand you say it's not a sure thing the Bulls can purely salary dump Taj and Dunleavy and right after you talk about how Gibson and Dunleavy are worth 2 1st rounders. First of all they will find a team willing to take Taj and Dunleavy on a salary dump for the mere fact they'd be getting Taj in return, likely at the price of a future 1st. Secondly, Dunleavy and Kirk are not each worth a 1st rounder and if you truly believe that, I have a bridge I'd like to sell you. So really, what you're looking at worst case for the Bulls is:

-Losing Taj+Dunleavy+MLE for Melo and a future 1st, I'd still do that move. We own our own 1st and the Bobcats 1st still in such a scenario, which you conveniently left out.

Thirdly, our 'notoriously cheap owner' is highly likely to amnesty Boozer, as long as it's beneficial to the basketball team(i.e. if we get a commitment from a free agent we like, if not he's a good expiring for the deadline and I'd like to keep him). That much has been made clear through sources here in Chicago.

Fourth, you're overvaluing Kirk Hinrich way too much, his bird rights are being renounced no matter what happens this summer.

So if you want to work a S&T with the Bulls, I would assume these are the two choices:

Team A(Philadelphia/Orlando/whoever looking to get closer to the minimum used cap space) Boozer+Dunleavy+Bobcats pick selection+Sacramento 1st
Knicks: 2015 Bulls 1st+2017 Bulls 1st
Bulls: Melo

2nd option would be you guys taking Boozer and Dunleavy and taking those two extra 1st rounders with them.

[ozwizard8]

Some of knicks fan doesnt realize what FA means.
Melo can just walk off.
You wiriting scenarios for 4 1st rounders. No-one would want to give us anything for melo. Maybe 1 1st rounder and thats it.
I know melo's value is so more than picks but he is going to FA. He can take pay cut.

Sent from my LG-D802 using RealGM Forums mobile app

[Marty McFly]

Some of knicks fan doesnt realize what FA means.
Melo can just walk off.
You wiriting scenarios for 4 1st rounders. No-one would want to give us anything for melo. Maybe 1 1st rounder and thats it.
I know melo's value is so more than picks but he is going to FA. He can take pay cut.

Sent from my LG-D802 using RealGM Forums mobile app

and that's were the problem lies. if he takes a drastic paycut (30 mill + in total) with the bulls, sixers, lakers or the celtics then there's no argument for us really.

[Context]

Some of knicks fan doesnt realize what FA means.
Melo can just walk off.
You wiriting scenarios for 4 1st rounders. No-one would want to give us anything for melo. Maybe 1 1st rounder and thats it.
I know melo's value is so more than picks but he is going to FA. He can take pay cut.

Sent from my LG-D802 using RealGM Forums mobile app

"Pay cut" that's ur only way to get melo on the cheap. However, if he doesn't want to take a significant pay cut u need us. And we have all the leverage for the many reasons/scenarios that have been explained countless times.

What I don't understand about some of you chi fans is you miss the whole point of your organization putting themselves in this position. Its for moments like these -IF- Melo has a desire to go to chi... Anyway...Denver got a hall and if melo WONT sign for a significant pay cut so will we...end of story...

And if/when you begin negotiating say hello to Phil Jackson