Hornacek: Suns are 'too soft'

Revived · Post #1 » by **Revived** » Wed Mar 12, 2014 8:07 am

Hornacek: Suns ‘too soft’

Hornacek was asked about the ways of his old Utah coach, Jerry Sloan, which led him to how the Suns have been the antithesis of a Sloan team at times.

“I think sometimes we’re a little too soft,” Hornacek said. “We talk about fouls, getting through screens, just basically fighting every play. That’s straight from Jerry. That’s what I’d like to have these guys do. We’re getting better. I don’t think we’re at that point yet.”

Hornacek said the coaches are not always the ones who have to get on the team, especially with P.J. Tucker around.

“We come in at halftime sometimes, and we hear them in the locker room talking to each other, and it’s not always just talk,” Hornacek said. “They’re yelling at each other sometimes. So, as coaches, we start to come out of the coaches’ office and say, ‘Nah, let’s just stay here for a little bit longer.’ Let them talk to each other. That’s what the good teams do. P.J. leads it most of the time. They’re all afraid of him anyway.”

http://www.azcentral.com/sports/suns/ar ... 23735198=1

NTB · Post #2 » by **NTB** » Wed Mar 12, 2014 9:39 am

Eric Bledsoe - Tough
Goran Dragic - Tough-minded but soft
Gerald Green - Soft
P.J Tucker - Tough
Frye - waaaay soft
Plumlee - I'm not sure
Alex Len - Soft
Shavlik - I'm not sure
Archie - Soft
Ish - Soft

So Hornacek is right.We only have 2 tough guys.

grumpysaddle · Post #3 » by **grumpysaddle** » Wed Mar 12, 2014 10:02 am

NTB wrote:Eric Bledsoe - Tough
Goran Dragic - Tough-minded but soft
Gerald Green - Soft
P.J Tucker - Tough
Frye - waaaay soft
Plumlee - I'm not sure
Alex Len - Soft
Shavlik - I'm not sure
Archie - Soft
Ish - Soft

So Hornacek is right.We only have 2 tough guys.

Alex Len will be a bruiser when he grows into an NBA player (if that happens, which I think will).

You forgot to put down the MoBros. Kieff is tough, and Marcus isn't much less tough. They've shown stints of playing tough defense, but they definitely have an edge to them when it comes to not taking any ****.

Jarlaxle0204 · Post #4 » by **Jarlaxle0204** » Wed Mar 12, 2014 12:36 pm

I agree with Hornacek. The team is soft but I do see improvement so we'll give it time.

Post #5 » by **TASTIC** » Wed Mar 12, 2014 12:46 pm

NTB wrote:Eric Bledsoe - Tough
Goran Dragic - Tough-minded but soft
Gerald Green - Soft
P.J Tucker - Tough
Frye - waaaay soft
Plumlee - I'm not sure
Alex Len - Soft
Shavlik - I'm not sure
Archie - Soft
Ish - Soft

So Hornacek is right.We only have 2 tough guys.

Totally disagree about Green. He's skinny/slight in build, but he doesn't back down from ANYONE and is always talking/getting amongst it.

Plumlee I'm not sure on either - I feel he takes a lot of contact but doesn't ever back it up.

Our softness is on the glass - Frye is not a banger, the Morri are 'tough' but again, they aren't bangers. I loved the passion and team mentality when Tucker and Griffin went at it and Morris just plowed in there and started separating the chaff.

Kind of off topic, but Griffin has been beasting this season. BUT, why does he get so much grief from opposing players? Kemp and Amare are the only athletic PFs who I think compare in terms of dunking on everyone - but nobody ever 'went at them' the way they do with Blake. I wouldn't say Amare or Kemp were badasses - sure, neither flopped as much as Blake did but Amare did that annoying 'And 1' after EVERY call, but nobody ever scrapped with them like they do with Griffin.
Griffin needs to throw a punch and mean it - whenever he gets tangled he flails about like he's pretending to try and walk away when he's really just baiting the other guy and looking like an idiot. Throw a punch or push the hell out of someone Blake!! Would get him suspended a game or two but he'd get respect.

Tyson Chandler would be a GREAT replacement as starting C next year, if he's healthy. He's dropped a bit but he still intimidates people and doesn't back down from anyone.

I also think Archie's going to be tough very soon. He went straight at Mayo earlier in the season when he was baiting him with the usual rookie BS

letsgosuns · Post #6 » by **letsgosuns** » Wed Mar 12, 2014 1:30 pm

NTB wrote:Eric Bledsoe - Tough
Goran Dragic - Tough-minded but soft
Gerald Green - Soft
P.J Tucker - Tough
Frye - waaaay soft
Plumlee - I'm not sure
Alex Len - Soft
Shavlik - I'm not sure
Archie - Soft
Ish - Soft

So Hornacek is right.We only have 2 tough guys.

No way do I agree that Goran is soft, I think he is tough as nails. The guy is a monster. I think all of the Suns players besides the frontcourt are pretty tough. The softest players on the team are Frye (far and away the softest player on the team), and the Morris brothers, (half the time they get bullied on defense by everyone). Plumlee was way tougher in the first half of the season and I think he is just exhausted now. Len is a rookie and will get tougher as he develops.

But Frye and the Morris brothers are the weakest links on this team when it comes to toughness, defense, rebounding, and consistency. All three of them are so inconsistent. You never know if they are going to score 20 points or 2 points. Frye and both Morris brothers combine to average 15 rebounds a game in a combined 77 minutes per game. To put how pathetic that is in perspective, Kevin Love averages 13 rebounds a game in 37 minutes by himself. I know Love is a top tier rebounder, but the Suns players that spend the most time in the rotation at the PF/C spots play 77 minutes per game combined and barely outrebound Kevin Love who is playing 40 less minutes. That is insane. That is the main reason why the Suns are so soft, because the guys that get the majority of frontcourt minutes are the softest players on the team. There is nothing the guards can do when opposing players run all over your big guys. Frye and the Morris brothers are a joke on defense.

That is why I think the Suns need to get a defensive anchor in the middle because it will improve the entire team. The biggest reason why the Spurs defense has been amazing for so many years and the Bulls defense is so good is because those teams' perimeter players know that there is a dominant defender anchoring the paint behind them. They are able to funnel their man into the big guy behind them and that defensive anchor will disrupt the shot and get the rebound, assuming there is a miss. Alex Len might be able to turn into that eventually as he has shown flashes of that capability, but he needs a far better power forward next to him than Frye or the Morris brothers. Next year I envision Len starting with Plumlee backing him up, and the Suns getting a star power forward who is tough and plays elite defense.

Sun Scorched · Post #7 » by **Sun Scorched** » Wed Mar 12, 2014 2:20 pm

Hornacek phrased this perfectly.

And I agree, always have, that a legitimate low post player would be AMAZEBALLS to have on ANY Suns team. Closest we've had to a productive center over the last decade was ancient Kurt Thomas (whom I loved) and Shaq (for half a season). Other than that, we've had to be scrappy on the boards a la Marion, Skinner, Amundson, etc in order to be competitive.

To me, interior D is a "nice" to have, but rebounding is a "have" to have. A player with both is practically elite, but just a guy who can grab double digit boards would be awesome. Keep the other team off the glass and initiate the fast break.

All the above considered - I think Len and Plumlee have the chance to become that. I truly hope one (or both) realize the opportunity they have in front of them. Both are playing their first significant minutes of pro basketball and it's well documented that the game "slows down" at a certain point for some young players. Don't think we need to go screwing with either of the two in terms of development.

garrick · Post #8 » by **garrick** » Wed Mar 12, 2014 3:45 pm

TASTIC wrote:
NTB wrote:Eric Bledsoe - Tough
Goran Dragic - Tough-minded but soft
Gerald Green - Soft
P.J Tucker - Tough
Frye - waaaay soft
Plumlee - I'm not sure
Alex Len - Soft
Shavlik - I'm not sure
Archie - Soft
Ish - Soft

So Hornacek is right.We only have 2 tough guys.

Totally disagree about Green. He's skinny/slight in build, but he doesn't back down from ANYONE and is always talking/getting amongst it.

Plumlee I'm not sure on either - I feel he takes a lot of contact but doesn't ever back it up.

Our softness is on the glass - Frye is not a banger, the Morri are 'tough' but again, they aren't bangers. I loved the passion and team mentality when Tucker and Griffin went at it and Morris just plowed in there and started separating the chaff.

Kind of off topic, but Griffin has been beasting this season. BUT, why does he get so much grief from opposing players? Kemp and Amare are the only athletic PFs who I think compare in terms of dunking on everyone - but nobody ever 'went at them' the way they do with Blake. I wouldn't say Amare or Kemp were badasses - sure, neither flopped as much as Blake did but Amare did that annoying 'And 1' after EVERY call, but nobody ever scrapped with them like they do with Griffin.
Griffin needs to throw a punch and mean it - whenever he gets tangled he flails about like he's pretending to try and walk away when he's really just baiting the other guy and looking like an idiot. Throw a punch or push the hell out of someone Blake!! Would get him suspended a game or two but he'd get respect.

Tyson Chandler would be a GREAT replacement as starting C next year, if he's healthy. He's dropped a bit but he still intimidates people and doesn't back down from anyone.

I also think Archie's going to be tough very soon. He went straight at Mayo earlier in the season when he was baiting him with the usual rookie BS

Players probably hate Griffin for all his flopping and on D he is no angel either. He's a fake tough guy is all.

spanishninja · Post #9 » by **spanishninja** » Wed Mar 12, 2014 4:13 pm

letsgosuns wrote:
NTB wrote:Eric Bledsoe - Tough
Goran Dragic - Tough-minded but soft
Gerald Green - Soft
P.J Tucker - Tough
Frye - waaaay soft
Plumlee - I'm not sure
Alex Len - Soft
Shavlik - I'm not sure
Archie - Soft
Ish - Soft

So Hornacek is right.We only have 2 tough guys.

No way do I agree that Goran is soft, I think he is tough as nails. The guy is a monster. I think all of the Suns players besides the frontcourt are pretty tough. The softest players on the team are Frye (far and away the softest player on the team), and the Morris brothers, (half the time they get bullied on defense by everyone). Plumlee was way tougher in the first half of the season and I think he is just exhausted now. Len is a rookie and will get tougher as he develops.

But Frye and the Morris brothers are the weakest links on this team when it comes to toughness, defense, rebounding, and consistency. All three of them are so inconsistent. You never know if they are going to score 20 points or 2 points. Frye and both Morris brothers combine to average 15 rebounds a game in a combined 77 minutes per game. To put how pathetic that is in perspective, Kevin Love averages 13 rebounds a game in 37 minutes by himself. I know Love is a top tier rebounder, but the Suns players that spend the most time in the rotation at the PF/C spots play 77 minutes per game combined and barely outrebound Kevin Love who is playing 40 less minutes. That is insane. That is the main reason why the Suns are so soft, because the guys that get the majority of frontcourt minutes are the softest players on the team. There is nothing the guards can do when opposing players run all over your big guys. Frye and the Morris brothers are a joke on defense.

That is why I think the Suns need to get a defensive anchor in the middle because it will improve the entire team. The biggest reason why the Spurs defense has been amazing for so many years and the Bulls defense is so good is because those teams' perimeter players know that there is a dominant defender anchoring the paint behind them. They are able to funnel their man into the big guy behind them and that defensive anchor will disrupt the shot and get the rebound, assuming there is a miss. Alex Len might be able to turn into that eventually as he has shown flashes of that capability, but he needs a far better power forward next to him than Frye or the Morris brothers. Next year I envision Len starting with Plumlee backing him up, and the Suns getting a star power forward who is tough and plays elite defense.

Yeah, we've all seen how fearless Goran can be. On the other hand, I think he picks his battles a bit too often instead of going with the same mindset at all times. Late in games he does have a tendency to become less aggressive than he needs to be. Granted a lot of this is the interior defense we've been facing recently, but i think Bledsoe will help throw off opposing big guys again.

Jdiddy701 · Post #10 » by **Jdiddy701** » Wed Mar 12, 2014 4:46 pm

The reason why we've been winning is because we're scrappy and tough, aside from Frye. I don't agree what that quote sorry Hornacek.

NTB · Post #11 » by **NTB** » Wed Mar 12, 2014 4:51 pm

Jdiddy701 wrote:The reason why we've been winning is because we're scrappy and tough, aside from Frye. I don't agree what that quote sorry Hornacek.

Actually Hornacek told "Our guys are tough sometimes, but not all the time." So Hornacek wants consant toughness.

asudevil · Post #12 » by **asudevil** » Wed Mar 12, 2014 5:36 pm

SF88 wrote:
Hornacek: Suns ‘too soft’

Hornacek was asked about the ways of his old Utah coach, Jerry Sloan, which led him to how the Suns have been the antithesis of a Sloan team at times.

“I think sometimes we’re a little too soft,” Hornacek said. “We talk about fouls, getting through screens, just basically fighting every play. That’s straight from Jerry. That’s what I’d like to have these guys do. We’re getting better. I don’t think we’re at that point yet.”

Hornacek said the coaches are not always the ones who have to get on the team, especially with P.J. Tucker around.

“We come in at halftime sometimes, and we hear them in the locker room talking to each other, and it’s not always just talk,” Hornacek said. “They’re yelling at each other sometimes. So, as coaches, we start to come out of the coaches’ office and say, ‘Nah, let’s just stay here for a little bit longer.’ Let them talk to each other. That’s what the good teams do. P.J. leads it most of the time. They’re all afraid of him anyway.”

http://www.azcentral.com/sports/suns/ar ... 23735198=1

Their are two kinds of soft. Physically and Mentally. Mentally this team is tough as nails. They are NEVER out of a game and can turn a 3rd quarter deficit into a win.

BUT Physically we are super soft. All it takes is for a dominate low post player or any player getting rough with us and we just cant handle it. Most of that team just cant handle a physical game. Its the reason the Nets have beaten us twice this season.

harshey1388 · Post #13 » by **harshey1388** » Wed Mar 12, 2014 5:45 pm

TASTIC wrote:
NTB wrote:Eric Bledsoe - Tough
Goran Dragic - Tough-minded but soft
Gerald Green - Soft
P.J Tucker - Tough
Frye - waaaay soft
Plumlee - I'm not sure
Alex Len - Soft
Shavlik - I'm not sure
Archie - Soft
Ish - Soft

So Hornacek is right.We only have 2 tough guys.

Totally disagree about Green. He's skinny/slight in build, but he doesn't back down from ANYONE and is always talking/getting amongst it.

Plumlee I'm not sure on either - I feel he takes a lot of contact but doesn't ever back it up.

Our softness is on the glass - Frye is not a banger, the Morri are 'tough' but again, they aren't bangers. I loved the passion and team mentality when Tucker and Griffin went at it and Morris just plowed in there and started separating the chaff.

Kind of off topic, but Griffin has been beasting this season. BUT, why does he get so much grief from opposing players? Kemp and Amare are the only athletic PFs who I think compare in terms of dunking on everyone - but nobody ever 'went at them' the way they do with Blake. I wouldn't say Amare or Kemp were badasses - sure, neither flopped as much as Blake did but Amare did that annoying 'And 1' after EVERY call, but nobody ever scrapped with them like they do with Griffin.
Griffin needs to throw a punch and mean it - whenever he gets tangled he flails about like he's pretending to try and walk away when he's really just baiting the other guy and looking like an idiot. Throw a punch or push the hell out of someone Blake!! Would get him suspended a game or two but he'd get respect.

Tyson Chandler would be a GREAT replacement as starting C next year, if he's healthy. He's dropped a bit but he still intimidates people and doesn't back down from anyone.

I also think Archie's going to be tough very soon. He went straight at Mayo earlier in the season when he was baiting him with the usual rookie BS

I think alot of it has to do with all the flopping. Basically posing for pictures and acting tough after EVERY shot. Players don't take too kindly to that. I agree with you, he is straight beast this season but he gets babied by the refs. He will basically bear hug someone on defense and wont be called for a foul but when he is on offense and someone just breathes on him its a foul.. players see it, players know it! I think since they know this they would say to themselves "I'm beat on this play and will probably get a foul why not just go at him" (atleast that's how i would think.

He acts too tough for his own good.. one of these days a shot will land across his jaw and he will be out cold.

BurningHeart · Post #14 » by **BurningHeart** » Wed Mar 12, 2014 5:49 pm

NTB wrote:Eric Bledsoe - Tough
Goran Dragic - Tough-minded but soft
Gerald Green - Soft
P.J Tucker - Tough
Frye - waaaay soft
Plumlee - I'm not sure
Alex Len - Soft
Shavlik - I'm not sure
Archie - Soft
Ish - Soft

So Hornacek is right.We only have 2 tough guys.

Goran Dragic is "tough minded by soft"? Where in the living **** do you get to THIS conclusion?!

Oh and good job leaving Markieff Morris off this list, who I'm pretty sure would be willing to stab anyone if they stepped to him.

Revived · Post #15 » by **Revived** » Wed Mar 12, 2014 5:57 pm

TASTIC wrote:Plumlee I'm not sure on either - I feel he takes a lot of contact but doesn't ever back it up.

Yea I think he has a lot of athleticism and good size but I don't he actually uses that to be physical and try to impose himself.

Lot of times he plays scared.

Sun Scorched · Post #16 » by **Sun Scorched** » Wed Mar 12, 2014 6:02 pm

Yeah, Goran isn't soft. Not the best defender in the world, granted, but not soft. It seems to me that "tough" is a word lost on most people, if they already don't mistake it for the word "thuggish". Clotheslining people while still being an average defender may make you "tough" by that definition of the word, but also "idiotic".

JDLAW · Post #17 » by **JDLAW** » Wed Mar 12, 2014 6:19 pm

The ignorance on display in some of the comments within this thread is astounding.

NaturalBuns · Post #18 » by **NaturalBuns** » Wed Mar 12, 2014 6:26 pm

Just another reason to praise tucker to the pj haters.

Tucker does so many things for this team. Sure he has flaws offensively I'd take that anyday with all the other stuff he brings .

Let goran, green,Bledsoe, markieff worry about the offense

Revived · Post #19 » by **Revived** » Wed Mar 12, 2014 6:57 pm

NaturalBuns wrote:Just another reason to praise tucker to the pj haters.

Tucker does so many things for this team. Sure he has flaws offensively I'd take that anyday with all the other stuff he brings .

Let goran, green,Bledsoe, markieff worry about the offense

You should tell Tucker that. The only complaint people have about Tucker is that he tries to do too much on offense despite him obviously lacking the ability to do so.

Just focus on D and rebounding PJ...

NaturalBuns · Post #20 » by **NaturalBuns** » Wed Mar 12, 2014 8:19 pm

SF88 wrote:
NaturalBuns wrote:Just another reason to praise tucker to the pj haters.

Tucker does so many things for this team. Sure he has flaws offensively I'd take that anyday with all the other stuff he brings .

Let goran, green,Bledsoe, markieff worry about the offense

You should tell Tucker that. The only complaint people have about Tucker is that he tries to do to much on offense despite him obviously lacking the ability to do so.

Just focus on D and rebounding PJ...

he doesn't try to do to much though.
I agree on the fastbreaks hes pretty bad but Jeff Hornacek is the one calling low post plays for tucker.
you rarely see tucker play ISO ball not saying he never does but its so rare.