Crazy trade idea - Monroe for picks?

[Invictus88]

Thats just what you want as a die hard fan sitting at home. Its a buisness and one that failing mightily in this area for the last 4-5years. You think Gores is just going to tarp off all the seats at the palace but a couple rows while 30 people come out and watch Monroe and Drummond develop for 4 years with a **** roster. The team has to start winning, Dumars wasted all the rebuild years already bringing in vets to steal all the playing time and terrible trades and other signings.

We're going to have to agree to disagree here. Dumars made a colossal mistake in trying to 'win now' to keep his job with the signings of Smith and Jennings. You are suggesting that we make other hasty moves to 'win now' again by mortgaging the young future of our franchise. You might as well just keep Dumars as GM if that's the direction you want to go.

We tried the quick fix this year through our free agent signings and that obviously failed worse than ever before regarding ticket sales.

It's insanity to do the same thing twice in a row (or in this case three times) and expect a different outcome.

Now your making it sound like me saying win now is going out and signing the two biggest dumb asses you can find. No dude thats not what im saying and thats insulting my intelligence to put me on that level of stupidity as to what Dumars went out and did. Gores had the right idea to expect to build a much improved roster in the offseason which a competant GM should have been able to do with 20 mil in cash, top8 draft pick and two good young frontcourt players. You think a competent GM should come out of all that without a promising roster? Please dont compare my level of thinking though with what mess Dumars went out and created.

I really don't know how to interpret trading Greg Monroe in order to 'win now' as anything other than mortgaging our future to win in the present. Saying that we already wasted our chance to wait to build because of the Smith / Jennings signings is something that I believe is a big mistake. You'll be gutting one of the two remaining good pieces on our roster for the sake of selling tickets in the short term. That's not how you build a lasting winning franchise.

I'm not really trying to paint your viewpoint in any sort of negative light. I just disagree with it wholeheartedly if my understanding of the point you're trying to promote is accurate.

[BadMofoPimp]

Monroe is worth more than the 10th pick. And, the other pick is going to the Magic, so Denver only has one pick. Now, a crazy trade idea is would Denver trade their 10th pick for Josh Smith?

[Notanoob]

Of course not, even if they did have the cap space to add him they wouldn't want Josh Smith. Their coach wants a smart big with a post game. That's Monroe. They already have dumb athletes like McGee, they don't need another.

[BadMofoPimp]

Of course not, even if they did have the cap space to add him they wouldn't want Josh Smith. Their coach wants a smart big with a post game. That's Monroe. They already have dumb athletes like McGee, they don't need another.

Monroe is worth more than the 8th or 10th pick in the draft and that is all Denver has unless:

Monroe

for

Faried and 1st. (I would do that)

[The Penguin]

The only way I'd trade Monroe is if we clear the deck and ship Monroe, #8, KCP and whatever else had value not named "Drummond" for Wiggins or Parker.

The Jennings and Smith deals hurt, but they aren't the end of the world. As it stands we project to hit the summer of 2015 with nearly $20 million in cap space and that's still having Drummond, Monroe, Smith, KCP & Jennings. Monroe is 23 and Drummond is 20, we could have a solid decade of them playing together and all we really need is one dominant perimeter player and a bunch of 3 & D guys to surround them.

[Finn McCool]

As stated previously there isn't a reason why we can't sign Monroe to an extension, ride out Smith's contract and THEN extend Drummond. We still have about 10 million (+- a few million depending on actual dollars spent on Monroe) to spend on a legit 3 & D guy (Ariza would be ideal). We'd have to still deal with Jennings for the time being and rely on youngsters for the guard positions (hoping that KCP develops further). It's definitely NOT ideal but it would be MUCH worse to be left with a hole at the 4 / have NO post scoring.

It's not that we don't get it. It's just not what you personally want to hear.

Thats just what you want as a die hard fan sitting at home. Its a buisness and one that failing mightily in this area for the last 4-5years. You think Gores is just going to tarp off all the seats at the palace but a couple rows while 30 people come out and watch Monroe and Drummond develop for 4 years with a **** roster. The team has to start winning, Dumars wasted all the rebuild years already bringing in vets to steal all the playing time and terrible trades and other signings.

We're going to have to agree to disagree here. Dumars made a colossal mistake in trying to 'win now' to keep his job with the signings of Smith and Jennings. You are suggesting that we make other hasty moves to 'win now' again by mortgaging the young future of our franchise. You might as well just keep Dumars as GM if that's the direction you want to go.

We tried the quick fix this year through our free agent signings and that obviously failed worse than ever before regarding ticket sales.

It's insanity to do the same thing twice in a row (or in this case three times) and expect a different outcome.

I don't think Joe made a mistake with signing Smith... and Jennings. There were a lot of folks believing their additions could win up to 50 games. I got a lot of flak when I suggested to other folks that we'd win 36 games... give or take a game. The problem continues to lie with a poor philosophy by Dumars and his ignorant persistence to use the Big 3. Something I think will hopefully end his tyranny. We are a severely poor defensive team... and one of the worst culprits is Monroe... especially at transition defense.

I am of the minority opinion that we need to let Monroe go... S&T or flat out let him bail. The errors of Dumars' ways were compounded by a poor coaching decision; Cheeks. An old school, blue-collar type, who thinks today's players are self starters and all you have to do is throw a ball into a gym and they'll get after it.

If the new GM keeps Monroe around, he'll be signing his own resignation. This got screwed up by not trying to find a trade partner before the deadline. Unfortunately, I think Joe had already been stripped of any power to make changes in the roster. We need more physical players across the board. We're too darn soft. Our chemistry blows. There are only 8 guys on the team that I'd welcome back.

[DetroitSho]

The only way I'd trade Monroe is if we clear the deck and ship Monroe, #8, KCP and whatever else had value not named "Drummond" for Wiggins or Parker.

The Jennings and Smith deals hurt, but they aren't the end of the world. As it stands we project to hit the summer of 2015 with nearly $20 million in cap space and that's still having Drummond, Monroe, Smith, KCP & Jennings. Monroe is 23 and Drummond is 20, we could have a solid decade of them playing together and all we really need is one dominant perimeter player and a bunch of 3 & D guys to surround them.

Wait, are we really gonna have $20 million in cap space in 2015? That doesn't sound right.

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[Clarity]

I don't think Joe made a mistake with signing Smith... and Jennings. There were a lot of folks believing their additions could win up to 50 games. I got a lot of flak when I suggested to other folks that we'd win 36 games... give or take a game.

This is mind boggling to me.

The folks on here who thought we would win 50 games needed their heads checked.

I said it back in June, ill repeat it now. Josh Smith & Brandon Jennings are two of the lowest IQ ball players i've ever watched in my life, they arent winners, they dont move the needle. They never will be winners, they never will move the needle. This thing has been a colossal disaster which if you watched bball & know about the sport at all, anyone could have predicted.

[ChipButty]

The only way I'd trade Monroe is if we clear the deck and ship Monroe, #8, KCP and whatever else had value not named "Drummond" for Wiggins or Parker.

The Jennings and Smith deals hurt, but they aren't the end of the world. As it stands we project to hit the summer of 2015 with nearly $20 million in cap space and that's still having Drummond, Monroe, Smith, KCP & Jennings. Monroe is 23 and Drummond is 20, we could have a solid decade of them playing together and all we really need is one dominant perimeter player and a bunch of 3 & D guys to surround them.

Wait, are we really gonna have $20 million in cap space in 2015? That doesn't sound right.

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Depends on what we do this off season, but Piston Prince's number looks close to me and Jennings would be an expiring. Our cap management has been fairly good, imo. That's the value of drafting well.

[Jajwanda]

How's his defense at the 5?

[sc8581]

How's his defense at the 5?

Better than it is at PF but he's not a rim protector at all, good hands.

[ImHeisenberg]

Monroe is worth more than the 10th pick. And, the other pick is going to the Magic, so Denver only has one pick. Now, a crazy trade idea is would Denver trade their 10th pick for Josh Smith?

Sure, if he were still under contract. Now, in a sign and trade, which can't even happen until weeks after the draft, he is not.

If the team can even get a 2nd round pick or two for Monroe, it should be considered a successful sign and trade. When was the last time a first round pick was exchanged in a sign and trade besides the unique Miami situation where they S&T for James and Bosh? That was a special circumstance not involving a restricted free agent and Miami needed Cle and Tor to help them manage the cap rules.

[DetroitSho]

Monroe is worth more than the 10th pick. And, the other pick is going to the Magic, so Denver only has one pick. Now, a crazy trade idea is would Denver trade their 10th pick for Josh Smith?

Sure, if he were still under contract. Now, in a sign and trade, which can't even happen until weeks after the draft, he is not.

If the team can even get a 2nd round pick or two for Monroe, it should be considered a successful sign and trade. When was the last time a first round pick was exchanged in a sign and trade besides the unique Miami situation where they S&T for James and Bosh? That was a special circumstance not involving a restricted free agent and Miami needed Cle and Tor to help them manage the cap rules.

What even is this?

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[Invictus88]

Thats just what you want as a die hard fan sitting at home. Its a buisness and one that failing mightily in this area for the last 4-5years. You think Gores is just going to tarp off all the seats at the palace but a couple rows while 30 people come out and watch Monroe and Drummond develop for 4 years with a **** roster. The team has to start winning, Dumars wasted all the rebuild years already bringing in vets to steal all the playing time and terrible trades and other signings.

We're going to have to agree to disagree here. Dumars made a colossal mistake in trying to 'win now' to keep his job with the signings of Smith and Jennings. You are suggesting that we make other hasty moves to 'win now' again by mortgaging the young future of our franchise. You might as well just keep Dumars as GM if that's the direction you want to go.

We tried the quick fix this year through our free agent signings and that obviously failed worse than ever before regarding ticket sales.

It's insanity to do the same thing twice in a row (or in this case three times) and expect a different outcome.

I don't think Joe made a mistake with signing Smith... and Jennings. There were a lot of folks believing their additions could win up to 50 games. I got a lot of flak when I suggested to other folks that we'd win 36 games... give or take a game. The problem continues to lie with a poor philosophy by Dumars and his ignorant persistence to use the Big 3. Something I think will hopefully end his tyranny. We are a severely poor defensive team... and one of the worst culprits is Monroe... especially at transition defense.

I am of the minority opinion that we need to let Monroe go... S&T or flat out let him bail. The errors of Dumars' ways were compounded by a poor coaching decision; Cheeks. An old school, blue-collar type, who thinks today's players are self starters and all you have to do is throw a ball into a gym and they'll get after it.

If the new GM keeps Monroe around, he'll be signing his own resignation. This got screwed up by not trying to find a trade partner before the deadline. Unfortunately, I think Joe had already been stripped of any power to make changes in the roster. We need more physical players across the board. We're too darn soft. Our chemistry blows. There are only 8 guys on the team that I'd welcome back.

I was definitely not one of the guys saying we would win 50 games (see the Josh Smith signing thread and the Pistons are Championship Contenders thread for the insanity I was fighting).

I really think we are just going to have to agree to disagree Finn.

I really only see 5 players on our current roster that are really worth keeping -- Drummond, Monroe, KCP (hope he develops), Singler (as backup/stopgap), and Jorts (big man depth). We'll obviously keep more than that because of contracts but I really don't see anyone else that potentially has a future on a winning basketball team.

Monroe has a relatively quiet demeanor about him -- meaning he isn't the type of guy who will vocally force something such as getting more touches, etc. But that doesn't mean he's a bad player. It just means that Cheeks is a terrible fit for him -- as you said a guy who basically doesn't coach and would rather just let the players figure everything out.

I agree defense in general is poor. But again I disagree with your assessment that it's primarily Monroe's fault. Our backcourt outside of KCP is a sieve. EVERYTHING gets by them. Which then means post defenders move up to challenge the ball and the guys they were guarding usually get left open. We usually have extremely poor communication and backside rotations to cover those open men. Furthermore we don't do the right things on pick & rolls either. These things are NOT specific to Monroe.

Is Monroe slow-footed on defense. Yes. But our main defensive problem is NOT because Monroe can't get out to a wing 4 and stop an ourside shot. Our main defensive problem is backcourt penetration (pick and roll or not) and the chaos that ensues because of it. That is because of poor coaching and poor effort. And there are plenty of people with much more at fault on the effort side of the equation.

Lastly, I know I've said this on a few recent threads but if we were to get rid of Monroe we would have zero people who can score in the post currently outside of Stuckey. Drummond really hasn't been given the opportunity to try (which is ridiculous I agree) and nobody else on our team really has any post moves. Jorts maybe??

Either way we would be in dire straits in the paint if we let Monroe go. We'd have to go and find another post scorer which would cost as much or more that GM will cost us and are much harder to find.

[DBC10]

Inb4Smithisthatpostscorer

Because he's not. I hope people understand this. As Sir Charles would say, "He don't even know how to post up."

[The Penguin]

The only way I'd trade Monroe is if we clear the deck and ship Monroe, #8, KCP and whatever else had value not named "Drummond" for Wiggins or Parker.

The Jennings and Smith deals hurt, but they aren't the end of the world. As it stands we project to hit the summer of 2015 with nearly $20 million in cap space and that's still having Drummond, Monroe, Smith, KCP & Jennings. Monroe is 23 and Drummond is 20, we could have a solid decade of them playing together and all we really need is one dominant perimeter player and a bunch of 3 & D guys to surround them.

Wait, are we really gonna have $20 million in cap space in 2015? That doesn't sound right.

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Depends on what we do this off season, but Piston Prince's number looks close to me and Jennings would be an expiring. Our cap management has been fairly good, imo. That's the value of drafting well.

We only have:

Smith ($14 mil)
Jennings ($8.3)
Drummond ($3.3)
KCP ($2.9)
Mitchell ($.9)

Committed to '15-'16

Add in $12-$14 mil for Monroe and 6 min salary cap holds with a cap at ~$62 mil and it's right near $20 mil in space.

The problem is the Rondo is really the only UFA available that summer that would fit.