Thompson

[Big_Cat]

Yeah, but you also have to factor in the situation with contending teams and their cap structure. Most contending teams have a few max level guys and as a result won't really be giving out too many contracts in that range, and because they are contenders they'll get a discount on some free agents and/or target players entering the final few years of their career. JT was a bad deal the day he was signed, period. Not because he's not capable of living up to that deal IMO, but because he won't ever be able to live up to that deal here. It's been long enough though that no team will touch him now.

I completely agree with what you said, but I think the fact that we live in a superstar driven league, there is no place for the Carl Landrys or Jason Thompsons of the world on a contending roster. Unless you have the one outlying perfect roster (ie Pistons) or perfect situation (ie Mavericks), you aren't winning without a few stars/superstars.

If you look at most of the teams that have been in the championship contention in the past decade or so, all of the teams had maybe 70-85% of the teams total salary going to 2-3 players. With the remaining 9-10 players or so getting that last sliver. It's just the nature of basketball. 1 DeMarcus Cousins will have far more impact than 3 Carl Landry's. This isn't the NFL or MLB, depth isn't necessarily that beneficial, at least not depth making a lot of money.

[ICMTM]

JT's per 36 career numbers are 13/9-ish. Not a dbl-dbl but close. In an ideal world, JT is a reliable 3rd or 4th big for a very good/contending team.

4th bigs are not paid $6.5 million. Heck even 3rd big's are not paid $6.5 million on a contending team.


Jordan Hill's career per 36. 14/11.4
Spencer Hawes career per 36 13.9/9.3
Thomas Robinson career per 36 12.3/11.4

per 36 is a useless stat

I don't understand your logic as Spencer Hawes gets paid more than JT and Thomas Robinson is on his rookie deal? If anything your analysis proves JT is being paid market value? I don't feel he's being overpaid, but I feel he's being paid in a way that makes him not attractive in a trade scenario. We would have to assume a "bad contract" to deal him. I say "bad contract" because that's how we acquired Rudy Gay. Chuck Hayes makes more than Jason Thompson this season and was traded.

My thing is this. JT has a value. He's not the hamstring on the cap as he earns his worth. Robin Lopez is the JT class, and makes $5.1m.

I have an alternate reason on why JT is largely ineffective. He goes through role changes. We brought in Landry, and JT outplayed him. We brought in Hixon, and JT outplayed him. We drafted Robinson, and JT outplayed him. We brought in Chuck Hayes, and JT outplayed him. Hawes, Hill, Lopez, et all do few things well. JT does a little of everything sloppy.

I think if we had the starting talent JT's role could be simplified and he, too could do few things well. He doesn't have the basketball IQ to really be a jack of all trades like his talent suggests.

[Big_Cat]

I don't understand your logic as Spencer Hawes gets paid more than JT and Thomas Robinson is on his rookie deal? If anything your analysis proves JT is being paid market value? I don't feel he's being overpaid, but I feel he's being paid in a way that makes him not attractive in a trade scenario. We would have to assume a "bad contract" to deal him. I say "bad contract" because that's how we acquired Rudy Gay. Chuck Hayes makes more than Jason Thompson this season and was traded.

My thing is this. JT has a value. He's not the hamstring on the cap as he earns his worth. Robin Lopez is the JT class, and makes $5.1m.

I have an alternate reason on why JT is largely ineffective. He goes through role changes. We brought in Landry, and JT outplayed him. We brought in Hixon, and JT outplayed him. We drafted Robinson, and JT outplayed him. We brought in Chuck Hayes, and JT outplayed him. Hawes, Hill, Lopez, et all do few things well. JT does a little of everything sloppy.

I think if we had the starting talent JT's role could be simplified and he, too could do few things well. He doesn't have the basketball IQ to really be a jack of all trades like his talent suggests.

No, Hawes and Robinson were to show how overrated the per 36 stat is. By judging player's via their per 36 production...than even Thomas Robinson is a double double guy.


Again. Go look at every contending team, and tell me how many role players/backups are making more than $5 million or so. If we want to be a contender, we cannot have contracts like Thompson. If we want to be a forever treadmill and scrub team, than sure go ahead, get as many Thompsons as you want.

[Wolfay]

Thompson is not some immovable anchor doomed to maroon us in mediocrity for all eternity. He has a combination skills and size that are scarce in the league. Players with similar or worse production with similar or worse contracts have been moved. There's also still the chance he can be utilized in some way that's valuable to us. You have to acknowledge that, otherwise you're moving into the realm of bashing the poor guy rather than making some rational observation about him or the team.

And by the way, Evan Turner of the Pacers makes 6.6 million, and Manu of the Spurs sits at 7 million. As SacKingZZZ pointed out, it depends on how the salary is structured and spread out on each team. There are trends of course, but there's no single formula on how to win an NBA championship.

[SactoKingsFan]

JT would probably be more valuable to a good team with defined roles and expectations. In the right situation I think he would have developed into a top 15 PF.

Sent from my LG-G2 running CM 11

[Big_Cat]

Thompson is not some immovable anchor doomed to maroon us in mediocrity for all eternity. He has a combination skills and size that are scarce in the league. Players with similar or worse production with similar or worse contracts have been moved. There's also still the chance he can be utilized in some way that's valuable to us. You have to acknowledge that, otherwise you're moving into the realm of bashing the poor guy rather than making some rational observation about him or the team.

And by the way, Evan Turner of the Pacers makes 6.6 million, and Manu of the Spurs sits at 7 million. As SacKingZZZ pointed out, it depends on how the salary is structured and spread out on each team. There are trends of course, but there's no single formula on how to win an NBA championship.

Turner and Manu? Now you're just grasping at straws. Manu is not and has never really been a "role player" or a "bench player." Manu is a bench player in the same sense that James Harden was a bench player in OKC. Even a now crippled Manu is still more productive than JT could ever dream of. And Evan Turner is on his rookie contract, and was traded in a deal that saved Indiana $4.5 million. If Turner signs for something around $6 million by Indiana this summer, than that will be something. Otherwise he was obtained to dump Granger's salary while getting some production.


And yes I agree. Thompson is not this terrible anchor. But players, more importantly, players with contracts like Thompson is what separates the contenders from the first round sacrificial lambs.

I'm sorry I view things differently. We're a small market team in an undesirable location (aka no superteam has ever/will ever point to Sacramento as their desired destination). But this doesn't mean we can't win. It simply means we cannot afford any error to mistakes (mistakes like Jimmer, Robinson, JT, Landry, etc).

[Wolfay]

Turner and Manu? Now you're just grasping at straws. Manu is not and has never really been a "role player" or a "bench player." Manu is a bench player in the same sense that James Harden was a bench player in OKC. Even a now crippled Manu is still more productive than JT could ever dream of. And Evan Turner is on his rookie contract, and was traded in a deal that saved Indiana $4.5 million. If Turner signs for something around $6 million by Indiana this summer, than that will be something. Otherwise he was obtained to dump Granger's salary while getting some production.


And yes I agree. Thompson is not this terrible anchor. But players, more importantly, players with contracts like Thompson is what separates the contenders from the first round sacrificial lambs.

I'm sorry I view things differently. We're a small market team in an undesirable location (aka no superteam has ever/will ever point to Sacramento as their desired destination). But this doesn't mean we can't win. It simply means we cannot afford any error to mistakes (mistakes like Jimmer, Robinson, JT, Landry, etc).

I don't think anybody really views things differently than you do. Where we differed was that ridiculous doomsday "we'll have to give up Cousins to unload Thompson" scenario.

[Big_Cat]

I don't think anybody really views things differently than you do. Where we differed was that ridiculous doomsday "we'll have to give up Cousins to unload Thompson" scenario.

Well, to be fair, this roster only has like 3-4 assets that have positive value right now

[ICMTM]

I don't understand your logic as Spencer Hawes gets paid more than JT and Thomas Robinson is on his rookie deal? If anything your analysis proves JT is being paid market value? I don't feel he's being overpaid, but I feel he's being paid in a way that makes him not attractive in a trade scenario. We would have to assume a "bad contract" to deal him. I say "bad contract" because that's how we acquired Rudy Gay. Chuck Hayes makes more than Jason Thompson this season and was traded.

My thing is this. JT has a value. He's not the hamstring on the cap as he earns his worth. Robin Lopez is the JT class, and makes $5.1m.

I have an alternate reason on why JT is largely ineffective. He goes through role changes. We brought in Landry, and JT outplayed him. We brought in Hixon, and JT outplayed him. We drafted Robinson, and JT outplayed him. We brought in Chuck Hayes, and JT outplayed him. Hawes, Hill, Lopez, et all do few things well. JT does a little of everything sloppy.

I think if we had the starting talent JT's role could be simplified and he, too could do few things well. He doesn't have the basketball IQ to really be a jack of all trades like his talent suggests.

No, Hawes and Robinson were to show how overrated the per 36 stat is. By judging player's via their per 36 production...than even Thomas Robinson is a double double guy.


Again. Go look at every contending team, and tell me how many role players/backups are making more than $5 million or so. If we want to be a contender, we cannot have contracts like Thompson. If we want to be a forever treadmill and scrub team, than sure go ahead, get as many Thompsons as you want.

We'll go with who would be in the playoffs now

ATL - Kyle Korver 6.7m
CHA - N/A
BKN - Marcus Thornton 8.1m (and they traded for him)
WSH - Martell Webster 5.0m
CHI - N/A
TOR - Chuck Hayes 5m, Amir Johnson 6.7m
IND - N/A
MIA - N/A

MEM - Courtney Lee, Tony Allen (5.2, 5m)
DAL - Brandon Wright 5m
GSW - N/A
POR - Robin Lopez 5.1m
HOU - N/A
LAC - JJ Redick 6.6m
OKC - Kendrick Perkins 8.4m
SAS - Tiago Splitter 10m

What you meant to say was when you have guys who make a ton of money at the top of the roster like a Derrick Rose or a Lebron James GM's have to pick role players that compliment those guys at a cost that is low.

I don't see the problem as we're giving too many $5-$7 contacts out, but that we haven't had a max contract between Webber and DMC. Kudos for not just throwing money at anyone, but all contending teams have those real max guys. That fixes the problem of giving these role players too much money because you kind of can't.

My thing is guys like JT, Travis Outlaw, et al are guys who are going to play at the level of their surroundings.

[blind prophet]

I don't understand your logic as Spencer Hawes gets paid more than JT and Thomas Robinson is on his rookie deal? If anything your analysis proves JT is being paid market value? I don't feel he's being overpaid, but I feel he's being paid in a way that makes him not attractive in a trade scenario. We would have to assume a "bad contract" to deal him. I say "bad contract" because that's how we acquired Rudy Gay. Chuck Hayes makes more than Jason Thompson this season and was traded.

My thing is this. JT has a value. He's not the hamstring on the cap as he earns his worth. Robin Lopez is the JT class, and makes $5.1m.

I have an alternate reason on why JT is largely ineffective. He goes through role changes. We brought in Landry, and JT outplayed him. We brought in Hixon, and JT outplayed him. We drafted Robinson, and JT outplayed him. We brought in Chuck Hayes, and JT outplayed him. Hawes, Hill, Lopez, et all do few things well. JT does a little of everything sloppy.

I think if we had the starting talent JT's role could be simplified and he, too could do few things well. He doesn't have the basketball IQ to really be a jack of all trades like his talent suggests.

No, Hawes and Robinson were to show how overrated the per 36 stat is. By judging player's via their per 36 production...than even Thomas Robinson is a double double guy.


Again. Go look at every contending team, and tell me how many role players/backups are making more than $5 million or so. If we want to be a contender, we cannot have contracts like Thompson. If we want to be a forever treadmill and scrub team, than sure go ahead, get as many Thompsons as you want.

We'll go with who would be in the playoffs now

ATL - Kyle Korver 6.7m
CHA - N/A
BKN - Marcus Thornton 8.1m (and they traded for him)
WSH - Martell Webster 5.0m
CHI - N/A
TOR - Chuck Hayes 5m, Amir Johnson 6.7m
IND - N/A
MIA - N/A

MEM - Courtney Lee, Tony Allen (5.2, 5m)
DAL - Brandon Wright 5m
GSW - N/A
POR - Robin Lopez 5.1m
HOU - N/A
LAC - JJ Redick 6.6m
OKC - Kendrick Perkins 8.4m
SAS - Tiago Splitter 10m

What you meant to say was when you have guys who make a ton of money at the top of the roster like a Derrick Rose or a Lebron James GM's have to pick role players that compliment those guys at a cost that is low.

I don't see the problem as we're giving too many $5-$7 contacts out, but that we haven't had a max contract between Webber and DMC. Kudos for not just throwing money at anyone, but all contending teams have those real max guys. That fixes the problem of giving these role players too much money because you kind of can't.

My thing is guys like JT, Travis Outlaw, et al are guys who are going to play at the level of their surroundings.

How are you ever able to afford a max, or near max contract if you are filled with multi year clutter season after season?

[ICMTM]

No, Hawes and Robinson were to show how overrated the per 36 stat is. By judging player's via their per 36 production...than even Thomas Robinson is a double double guy.


Again. Go look at every contending team, and tell me how many role players/backups are making more than $5 million or so. If we want to be a contender, we cannot have contracts like Thompson. If we want to be a forever treadmill and scrub team, than sure go ahead, get as many Thompsons as you want.

We'll go with who would be in the playoffs now

ATL - Kyle Korver 6.7m
CHA - N/A
BKN - Marcus Thornton 8.1m (and they traded for him)
WSH - Martell Webster 5.0m
CHI - N/A
TOR - Chuck Hayes 5m, Amir Johnson 6.7m
IND - N/A
MIA - N/A

MEM - Courtney Lee, Tony Allen (5.2, 5m)
DAL - Brandon Wright 5m
GSW - N/A
POR - Robin Lopez 5.1m
HOU - N/A
LAC - JJ Redick 6.6m
OKC - Kendrick Perkins 8.4m
SAS - Tiago Splitter 10m

What you meant to say was when you have guys who make a ton of money at the top of the roster like a Derrick Rose or a Lebron James GM's have to pick role players that compliment those guys at a cost that is low.

I don't see the problem as we're giving too many $5-$7 contacts out, but that we haven't had a max contract between Webber and DMC. Kudos for not just throwing money at anyone, but all contending teams have those real max guys. That fixes the problem of giving these role players too much money because you kind of can't.

My thing is guys like JT, Travis Outlaw, et al are guys who are going to play at the level of their surroundings.

How are you ever able to afford a max, or near max contract if you are filled with multi year clutter season after season?

You align the clutter to expire in the same year. For us that is the summer of 2015. Look for either Thompson, Landry, or both to be moved for something that expires next season. This summer we have some S&T options and those guys could be a part of it along with Derrick Williams.

I mean if LeBron comes here... (I got jokes)

The Kings were well under the cap and made a serious move at NOBODY. That's when we knew the Maloofs were broke and up to something. It was the Summer of 2011 (Lockout year). What did we do? We signed Chuck Hayes and Marcus Thornton to long deals. We could have singed them to shorter deals, but we had them long term. We then traded for Salmons. Of course hindsight being what it is the Ownership was trying hard to move this team away and they made it unattractive for people to get behind. I'm just explaining how we got here.

[ICMTM]

The other approach is you target a free agent. There hasn't been a free agency where there was the guy to get so the other way to do it is via trade. You have to have something to trade to get something in return?

[Big_Cat]

IND - N/A
MIA - N/A

LAC - JJ Redick 6.6m
OKC - Kendrick Perkins 8.4m
SAS - Tiago Splitter 10m

Every other team you listed isn't a contender.

Do you really think OKC doesn't regret Perkins? Perkins is essentially the main reason they do not have Harden anymore. So if you want to use Perkins (OKC's biggest mistake) as justification on why having Thompson is okay...then I guess sure. Splitter...who knows what the F that deal was about. Terrible terrible contract. Though when they signed Tiago to that contract, he was performing much better and showed a lot more promise than JT ever had.



The problem with having these contracts, is unless you already have your max guys on your roster (ie OKC when they traded for Perkins), you essentially have NO ability to obtain true max guys. You either draft or sign true max level players. If your roster is filled with mid-level scrubs, than you can't sign max-FA's anymore. Additionally, the MLE guys are generally too good to prevent your roster from bottoming out, meaning you can't draft the max-FA's either.

Welcome to the treadmill boys.

[Mattya]

Any interest in Chase Budinger for Thompson in the offseason. Chase had a pretty unlucky injury last season and had a set back this season. He has been struggling to get back his rhythm(like last year before he started playing better at the end of the season), but he would provide a decent back up at the small forward spot for you guys. Allows you to move Williams back to being a power forward. He also has a player option a year earlier than Thompson's contract expires. Thompson would be a nice back up for us next year. I also wouldn't have to watch Dante Cunningham suck anymore.

[ICMTM]

IND - N/A
MIA - N/A

LAC - JJ Redick 6.6m
OKC - Kendrick Perkins 8.4m
SAS - Tiago Splitter 10m

Every other team you listed isn't a contender.

Do you really think OKC doesn't regret Perkins? Perkins is essentially the main reason they do not have Harden anymore. So if you want to use Perkins (OKC's biggest mistake) as justification on why having Thompson is okay...then I guess sure. Splitter...who knows what the F that deal was about. Terrible terrible contract. Though when they signed Tiago to that contract, he was performing much better and showed a lot more promise than JT ever had.



The problem with having these contracts, is unless you already have your max guys on your roster (ie OKC when they traded for Perkins), you essentially have NO ability to obtain true max guys. You either draft or sign true max level players. If your roster is filled with mid-level scrubs, than you can't sign max-FA's anymore. Additionally, the MLE guys are generally too good to prevent your roster from bottoming out, meaning you can't draft the max-FA's either.

Welcome to the treadmill boys.

I listed playoff teams. Do what you wish with who is a real contender. The point is even with your condensed list there are teams that have at least one player who is overpaid. Jason Thompson isn't the hamstring you make him to be.

[Big_Cat]

I listed playoff teams. Do what you wish with who is a real contender. The point is even with your condensed list there are teams that have at least one player who is overpaid. Jason Thompson isn't the hamstring you make him to be.

We all know there are "treadmill" teams in the NBA. Teams that are good enough to make the playoffs or contend for the 9th or 10th seed year in and year out. However, they are limited by cap constraints and youth assets that prevents them from signing anyone or trading for anyone. And they are too good to improve via the draft (unless they get extremely lucky).


Teams that are not contenders, in the playoffs, and don't have a stockpile of players who haven't reached their potential...well those are all your treadmill teams. (Go look at Milwaukee with Ellis, Phoenix post Amare leaving with Nash, Utah with Deron Williams and Al Jefferson, etc. etc.)

[KF10]

Any interest in Chase Budinger for Thompson in the offseason. Chase had a pretty unlucky injury last season and had a set back this season. He has been struggling to get back his rhythm(like last year before he started playing better at the end of the season), but he would provide a decent back up at the small forward spot for you guys. Allows you to move Williams back to being a power forward. He also has a player option a year earlier than Thompson's contract expires. Thompson would be a nice back up for us next year. I also wouldn't have to watch Dante Cunningham suck anymore.

Sure, why not?

JT is the better player than Budinger but JT is one of the culprits of causing the PF glut in the roster and Bud's contract > JT's contract.

Also, I would rather give Budinger minutes @ SF than a guy like Outlaw.

[SacKingZZZ]

I do that in a second.