How culpable is Griff for all these scuffles?

[Quake Griffin]

I've seen a lot of people deductively reason that he's the common denominator in all of the scuffles and therefore, he is the reason for all of this.





Clearly he shouldn't have cheap shotted or flopped to cause David West's reaction here.

edit: Griff is 25 today.

[Forte IV]

If Blake instigates by completely dominating the other team. Then yes, he is culpable.

[Ranma]

Just like Lamar Odom's tantrum against Blake when he was a Laker, they're both going for the ball, so how does it justify a cheapshot reaction like that? I'm not saying Blake never does anything to instigate such reactions because I've seen him do little things that would set me off, but for the most part, other players are either jealous or caught up in the competitive moment. However, most of the reactions from the opponents are unjustified without at least a technical foul called on them and not on Blake.

[Neddy]

do you blame victims why they deserved rape?

whatever blake is doing or not doing to cause others to lose their temper, is within the rules of NBA according to the refs, otherwise they would be calling a foul on blake. if what blake does is in deed, unlawful and yet the refs allow it and looks away, great, we finally are getting that royalty treatment that MJs and Kobes of the league have been getting all these years that our fan base were only allowed to watch from the other end of it.

either way, blame the other teams players who are throwing the first punch. stand your ground. unlike poor trayvon, blake is half white.

[Quake Griffin]

do you blame victims why they deserved rape?

Depends on if they wore provocative clothing

[BlzMwt]

i honestly think this season most of all, it is all on blake for these scuffles.

his improved play and more oftentimes than not, ability to be unstoppable have caused the other teams/players to become so frustrated that they are left to resort to these kind of actions

i think you could say it is all on griffin

[Ranma]

A surprisingly good article from someone I haven't heard of before.

Paul Flannery, SB Nation (3/16/14)

"It’s amazing. I don’t get it. I honestly don’t," Clippers coach Doc Rivers told me in his office before the Warriors game. "He had that soft label. People come in with that label and labels are hard to get rid of. They really are. They hear it and guys come in, they play him and they hear that label and the next thing they know they’re getting their ass kicked. Physically, by Blake. Speedwise, by Blake. All over the floor. He’s making jumpers, he’s posting them up, he’s more physical than they thought and I think they take it personally. I ain’t going to let this happen to me. Not this guy. What they don’t realize is, he ain’t that guy. He ain’t what they think he is."
...

Let’s say Griffin finally snaps. He gets suspended, costing the Clippers one of their two best players at a time when the difference between first and fourth place in the Western Conference is less than five games and then there’s a new problem. If opponents think Griffin can get rattled in the regular season, he’ll get it even worse in the playoffs.
...

"Honestly it didn’t really feel like it took a lot out of me," Griffin said. "I’m just being honest, but if it looked like that I guess I have to work on my conditioning. When shots are falling like that from the outside, I’ve had to work a lot harder for some shots."

And therein lies not only the seeds of the animosity, but also the flat-out truth. It wasn’t that hard for Griffin, especially in the first quarter when he scored 22 points on only nine shots.

He’s just not supposed to acknowledge that. The proper response would have been a show of fake humility, dutifully recorded and noted in the next day’s papers. But that’s not Blake Griffin.

What Blake Griffin Is and Is Not

[marcusaurelius]

Several of the above posters have it right I think. It is a combination of things. He is playing at a first team All NBA level and I think that is surprising, and frustrating, some people. And also, in the back of their minds, I think that a lot of these guys bought into the "Blake is soft" myth (which I always thought was stupid, and untrue, but crazy myths can have a life of their own).

So I think that it is psychologically getting under these guys' skin that a "soft" guy is kicking their rear. They can't maintain control of their emotions, and they do something stupid.

Basically, they are mentally defeated.

[mkwest]

When he was in college, I used to wonder if he was cocky/arrogant or a huge trash talker due to some of the cheap shots that he received.

Having watched him over the last 5 years or so, I know that's not the case. You don't see him doing a bunch of showboating or a whole lot of jawing back and forth with other players. There are stars/superstars in the league that do showboat, talk trash, pump their chests, talk slick in the media, etc. They don't get the same cheap shots that Blake gets.

The word on him was that if you challenge him early that he would back down or that it would curtail his aggressiveness. He hasn't really retaliated back in an aggressive manner yet. However, he's beginning to attack on the court.

I think some of it is jealousy. Crab bucket mentality. Players have egos (some larger than others). It could be hard when there's a player that you feel that you are equal to or better than, but he's getting all the accolades and fame. You don't hear Blake boast on himself. He says he wants to be great and all, but he doesn't go out of his way to give himself a ton of praise. You don't hear him going around saying that he's the best at his position or that he's better than anyone. He just goes to work. Some other players talk themselves up quite a bit.

Some of it is frustration. Danny Granger recently stated that players get mad when they have to guard Blake and aren't able to do much to stop him. You're likely not going to outhusle or outplay him athletically. Odom was pissed that he was still playing hard for a rebound off a free-throw a couple of years ago. He's very hard to outmuscle. He's strong, quick, nimble and there's the vertical aspect as well. When it's all said and done, he may posterize you and then everybody's talking about how you died from some dunk or you name becomes a verb.

With him not really boasting/bragging, it's like he's not acknowledging you. He may have made you look silly, but he's not even paying you much mind like it was no accomplishment at all. Maybe that makes them feel like he's disrespecting them. One thing he has done is laugh off some of the comments that some opposing players make rather than play the game of going back and forth. It's happened with Randolph and more recently with O'neal. Nobody wants to be brushed off.

Is Blake a cheap/dirty player? He used to sell a lot of contact after not getting calls that he deserved. I believe that he's cut back on that over the last 2 seasons, but that reputation is hard to shake. Every player believes that he's never committed a foul. When it's against a player like Blake (who you are already probably playing harder than you would someone less physical), it must be his fault that you're sitting on the bench in foul trouble and not because you actually committed the foul.

If you read some of the comments posted from fans across the NBA world that point the finger solely at Blake, then I say that he needs to be actually given some credit if it's all his fault. If he's the sole reason for the skirmishes and the hostility, then he's underrated as hell in playing mind games with opposing players.

At the end of the day, I think there's a reason players' perception of him change once they become a teammate of his. It's not just hype or being a media darling, but the guy puts in work. From an outside perspective, you don't see the work until you see the result. For me as a fan, one of the biggest surprises was a few comments made by Randolph. If you watch them play, you would think that he absolutely doesn't respect Blake and has a serious axe to grind, but his comments spoke pretty highly of his adversary.

[Quake Griffin]

When he was in college, I used to wonder if he was cocky/arrogant or a huge trash talker due to some of the cheap shots that he received.

Having watched him over the last 5 years or so, I know that's not the case. You don't see him doing a bunch of showboating or a whole lot of jawing back and forth with other players. There are stars/superstars in the league that do showboat, talk trash, pump their chests, talk slick in the media, etc. They don't get the same cheap shots that Blake gets.

The word on him was that if you challenge him early that he would back down or that it would curtail his aggressiveness. He hasn't really retaliated back in an aggressive manner yet. However, he's beginning to attack on the court.

I think some of it is jealousy. Crab bucket mentality. Players have egos (some larger than others). It could be hard when there's a player that you feel that you are equal to or better than, but he's getting all the accolades and fame. You don't hear Blake boast on himself. He says he wants to be great and all, but he doesn't go out of his way to give himself a ton of praise. You don't hear him going around saying that he's the best at his position or that he's better than anyone. He just goes to work. Some other players talk themselves up quite a bit.

Some of it is frustration. Danny Granger recently stated that players get mad when they have to guard Blake and aren't able to do much to stop him. You're likely not going to outhusle or outplay him athletically. Odom was pissed that he was still playing hard for a rebound off a free-throw a couple of years ago. He's very hard to outmuscle. He's strong, quick, nimble and there's the vertical aspect as well. When it's all said and done, he may posterize you and then everybody's talking about how you died from some dunk or you name becomes a verb.

With him not really boasting/bragging, it's like he's not acknowledging you. He may have made you look silly, but he's not even paying you much mind like it was no accomplishment at all. Maybe that makes them feel like he's disrespecting them. One thing he has done is laugh off some of the comments that some opposing players make rather than play the game of going back and forth. It's happened with Randolph and more recently with O'neal. Nobody wants to be brushed off.

Is Blake a cheap/dirty player? He used to sell a lot of contact after not getting calls that he deserved. I believe that he's cut back on that over the last 2 seasons, but that reputation is hard to shake. Every player believes that he's never committed a foul. When it's against a player like Blake (who you are already probably playing harder than you would someone less physical), it must be his fault that you're sitting on the bench in foul trouble and not because you actually committed the foul.

If you read some of the comments posted from fans across the NBA world that point the finger solely at Blake, then I say that he needs to be actually given some credit if it's all his fault. If he's the sole reason for the skirmishes and the hostility, then he's underrated as hell in playing mind games with opposing players.

At the end of the day, I think there's a reason players' perception of him change once they become a teammate of his. It's not just hype or being a media darling, but the guy puts in work. From an outside perspective, you don't see the work until you see the result. For me as a fan, one of the biggest surprises was a few comments made by Randolph. If you watch them play, you would think that he absolutely doesn't respect Blake and has a serious axe to grind, but his comments spoke pretty highly of his adversary.

i think about Mozgov, Kendrick, Pau x2 and Humphries.

I've never....EVER seen this dude show them up on a dunk....I've never even seen him do the DJ and scream on the player when he completely embarrasses them.

What really bothers me and scares me is I believe Blake is going to have to do what Barkley says...and one day just haul off and clock a dude before people stop trying him.
to that end, I wish this came in the season and his suspension and fine has already happened. I am absolutely terrified that some team is going to come at him during the postseason in a way where he wont be able to back down or acquiesce....that it's going to be suspensions, fines etc. etc.

^^^
oddly enough, i don't think that team will be the Grizzlies.

[Darius]

It would be very blind/naive to believe Griffin gets in these scuffles because "he is just so good players are mad at him".

He clearly has something about him that causes players to react with physical frustration.

It is likely he is just very physical and always leaning/bumping/tangling with guys. Kind of like why people hate Tyler Hansborough.

As for Blake not showboating? Or course he showboats. He just does it in a different way through staredowns etc.

[KyletheDingbat]

I agree with the consensus opinions here, but I have noticed that he does a lot of little things to tick guys off. He's also a little reckless and throws his body into guys in ways other players don't. He's just that guy that gets under everyone's skin.

[QRich3]

It would be very blind/naive to believe Griffin gets in these scuffles because "he is just so good players are mad at him".

He clearly has something about him that causes players to react with physical frustration.

It is likely he is just very physical and always leaning/bumping/tangling with guys. Kind of like why people hate Tyler Hansborough.

As for Blake not showboating? Or course he showboats. He just does it in a different way through staredowns etc.

Jalen Rose explains it very well on his latest podcast where he talks about the Jermain O'Neal incident. Blake gets all this hate because he plays hard and will make you look bad if you're not ready for him. NBA players have a big ego and don't like looking bad, so they're threatened by him.

Because he's a young nice guy and he doesn't really have a threatening personality, some players take it as like he can't back all the aggressiveness of his game. Like he is really hard at playing the game, but he is soft mentally. That's blatantly not true, being nice and being soft are different things, but beacuse of that, morons around the league still think they can take him out of his game if they're rough with him. They used to say the same about Pau Gasol, and what they did is pave Gasol's way to a couple of championships with all this "rough play".

And I find it really funny that people looking for reasons to hate take his "blank stares" (sic) as taunts. Like how more neutral can I get than a blank stare after I dunked on you. It's the dunk that hurts, not the freaking stare, stop being insecure.

[Wammy Giveaway]

QRich, can you give me the link to the podcast where Jalen Rose talks about the Griffin-O'Neal incident?

Here's my two cents on this:

Opponents are trying to get Blake Griffin punished. They feel like he purposely plans these scuffles by drawing technical fouls and ejections on some players to make the game easier for him and his team. To the minds of opposing players, Griffin rigs games in order to steal wins, and he gets away with them. Their plan is to rough Griffin up to the point where he snaps and does something so horrendous, it brings back memories of the Malice At The Palace. This tweet below proves how much a Griffin ejection means to these haters:

[tweet]http://twitter.com/anguslivingston/status/416082361978073088[/tweet]

The Griffin ejection was also the reason why the Melo trade rumors began. On the night of the ejection, the Clippers front office felt ashamed, embarrassed and humiliated that the Warriors themselves fixed the game to steal a win themselves. One front office member said he wanted revenge against the Dubs, and if it meant trading Griffin for Melo to exact that revenge, so be it. Both the Clippers and Knicks talked about this internally and kept it a secret (until Chris Broussard turned it into something that should have never happened). Griffin heard the talks and vowed he would never get involved in those traps ever again, starting by improving his game. You see it in the multiple 30+ point games, his improved passing, and his desire to become more LeBron James like. The internal improvements of Blake Griffin forced both teams to call off the trade.

I posed this question to Andrew Han about teams having a hidden agenda into inflicting malicious intent on Blake Griffin, not only to destroy his nice guy reputation, but to force the Clippers into giving up on him early and doing a panic trade for Carmelo Anthony, who is a friend of Chris Paul. The answer comes at the 21:54 mark, but I'll post a portion of his response below the video:

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y1Azi3eLUjk[/youtube]

"In terms of trying to damage Griffin's reputation, I don't think players think that far ahead. The game happens in split second time. If you're thinking that a lot of these players are getting into these situations with the intent of (ruining Griffin's reputation) or causing bodily harm, that's inferring much too much into the incident."

I don't necessarily agree with Han here. You don't see other players doing such nasty things to Kobe Bryant, Tim Duncan, or Kevin Garnett for example. They're all tough, and they don't fight; they take over. Even LeBron has an edge, having gained it after conquering the demon named the Boston Celtics. Opponents still have this mindset of the Clippers being losers whose only good in life is to help the Lakers, and they come with this mindset thinking they could easily be taken advantage of. Not with Doc Rivers on the helm.

As for Griffin's ability to restrain himself, this stems from multiple family incidents with his brother Taylor. Through time, he learned from his father how to channel that inner turmoil and frustration into productivity. Have a read, c/o Dan Woike: http://www.ocregister.com/articles/blak ... chris.html

Another, from NewsOK: http://newsok.com/clippers-blake-griffi ... le/3936438

In short, Griffin is doing the right thing by playing the Martin Luther King role, the Gandhi role. He should be commended for that, but other NBA players call it a cop out, and want him to become a true man by throwing a punch. When he refused to do so, opponents resorted to rigging games in an attempt to frame him for something he didn't do. You saw that in the Christmas game, the Warriors plotting Griffin's ejection. But the ejection turned out to be the greatest thing in the world. Justified or not, Griffin now understands that players will do everything in their power to destroy his image - not his basketball skills - and only by continuously winning until they win the NBA championship can he and his Clippers be vindicated of all their wrongs, Donald Sterling's wrongs included.

[QRich3]

QRich, can you give me the link to the podcast where Jalen Rose talks about the Griffin-O'Neal incident?

There ya go

[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iNZIebQ_3kY[/youtube]

I think he starts talking about it around 20-25 minutes in.

[Quake Griffin]

I want to say it's Griff being physical. I want to say it's because he does cheap little things.

But someone is going to have to explain David West's problem in that gif.
And while they're at it...explain:

Matt Barnes's body check if him in the 2011 preseason.

That cat from New Orleans body check on him.

Greg Oden's hard foul.

If ur not getting it. These 4 situations weren't borne out of Griffin cheapness/physicality.
People around the league like and want to take runs at Griff.

[mkwest]

Blake Griffin endures hack attack

A man too selfless and indispensable to his team to haul off and make someone spit out his teeth just to enjoy some frontier justice.

It's not often an offensive player is reputed to be the most loathed man in the league among his peers. Yet Griffin gets treated like that a lot.

And yet, while Oklahoma City's Kevin Durant seems universally admired and Golden State sharpshooter Stephen Curry is seen as a canny, saucer-eyed assassin, cute as some plush toy you win at a carnival, Griffin has had run-ins or takedowns this season alone with Oklahoma City's Serge Ibaka, Phoenix's P.J. Tucker, Miami's Greg Oden, Denver's Kenneth Faried and numerous Warriors.

And his treatment has not been seen as the usual stuff that happens in the flow of the game.

Griffin has heard that his peers think he preens and showboats too much. Or that they try to bait him into trouble because it's nigh impossible to stop him otherwise.

Rivers has said the league and its officials too often look the other way when Griffin is mugged.

But here's the thing: "It's true," Indiana head coach Frank Vogel said with a laugh Wednesday. "We all know Blake gets more hard fouls than anybody in the league. But there's a reason for that. The guys that are guarding him don't want to get dunked on and end up on SportsCenter."

Griffin has drawn a league-high 516 fouls, 67 more than Houston's Dwight Howard, who is in second place.

If the Pacers and Clippers play each other in the NBA Finals, Vogel may regret admitting some maulings of Griffin go unpunished.

Johnette Howard, ESPN Los Angeles

[mkwest]

[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g66OVQEHgP0[/youtube]
[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yovspHVLHUs[/youtube]
[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N6YeYyX6AFU[/youtube]

Miller questions suspension that ended his ironman streak (12/8/10)

His reaction to the suspension: “I was surprised. I actually wasn’t even notified. I found out toward the evening when I was sleeping that there would be a suspension. It just shows you how soft the league has gotten, protecting young players. It’s not like it was when I came (into) this league.”

On if he thinks the collision will trigger referees to watch Blake Griffin more closely: “No, not really, because he’s going to get away with it. I don’t have nothing against him being an aggressive big man. I don’t think I would have been suspended if there was a flagrant foul called on the court. (Blazers center Marcus) Camby whacked someone in the face and he didn’t get suspended. The rules don’t apply to everyone.”

On whether he would have done it again knowing it would warrant suspension: “I took two shots. The referees didn’t call it on that end. I took two shots, then I gave a shot. I told the ref, ‘We can call that even now.’ He didn’t make the call, and he was looking right at it.”

On whether the suspension was justified: “It wasn’t justified at all. If I was a dirty player that was looking to go out and hurt someone then I can understand, ‘OK, this guy has a reputation.’ Back in the day, like John Stockton, tough-minded player, some people thought he was dirty. He never got suspended for anything. The league has changed, they favor the young guys now, and that’s just how it is.”

Matt Calkins, The Columbian

Monty Williams apologizes for foul (3/27/12)

"He's no fool -- he knows he's making people look crazy and guys don't like that," Williams said of Griffin. "He's gotta expect some of that. It's just gonna happen. If you jump 5 feet over somebody and dunk it and you got people coming up to you and hugging you after you do it, the opponent's not gonna say, 'Oh, man, can you do that again?'

"He's a phenomenon, and a lot of guys don't like that."

Williams added that Griffin was "really cool" about the situation in exchanging texts with him Friday.

Pedro Moura, ESPN Los Angeles

Cousins: Griffin 'babied' by league (4/6/12)

"He's babied," Cousins told SI.com after the Kings fell to the Clippers 93-85. "He's the poster child of the league. He sells tickets, but he's babied. Bottom line."

Babied by whom, Cousins was asked.

"The refs, the league -- period," he continued. "He gets away with [everything]. He taunts players. Nothing is done. He's babied."

Sam Amick, Sports Illustrated

Serge Ibaka hits Blake Griffin below waist, not ejected (3/13/13)

"I didn't see it to where it was like that flagrant. (Griffin) took (Ibaka's) arm and knocked him down. The dude (is) known for flopping anyway, so that's what it is," Thunder's Kendrick Perkins told USA TODAY Sports' Sam Amick after the game. "I was (angry). The (Clippers') reaction after that was kind of like Serge Ibaka against Blake Griffin.

"He ain't going to get the benefit of (the doubt) or what's really happening down there. You ain't seeing all the stuff that other people are doing. Serge ends up getting the bad end of the stick. I didn't like the whole thing — period. I thought it should've been a double foul."

"I just tried to play hard. I really don't care if someone is dirty or not, that's not my problem," Ibaka said. "His game was intense, we all were complaining to the referees (about) some dirty stuff. It's basketball. We just played.

"If you can see the replay, you can see he grabbed my jersey first so I wanted to try to defend myself. (But) not to hurt him."

Adi Joseph, USA Today

Blake Griffin ejection deemed wrong (12/27/13)

Bogut defended his actions a day later.

"We're just trying to win the game," Bogut said Thursday, according to the Bay Area News Group. "We did whatever it took to win the game. We made the big plays toward the end. Everyone's entitled to their opinions and comments, and we're not really affected by that. We'd rather be called cowards and come out with the win."

Green declined to elaborate on what may have led to his elbow to Griffin.

"It was a tough division game," Green said, according to the Bay Area News Group. "That's one of the big things that happens in a tough division game when you've got two good teams playing against each other. We were able to come out with the win. We did the necessary things, made the necessary plays we needed to make to come out with the win."

ESPN Los Angeles

Clippers' Blake Griffin shows restraint on the court (2/22/14)

Griffin explains that the restraint he shows stems from an early lesson his father, Tommy Griffin, taught him.

“I've experienced things like that almost since high school,” Griffin said. “As a bigger guy, you kind of get fouled a lot, fouled harder. It's something my dad always taught me and told me. Just to respond with how you play because you don't want to put your team in a bad situation by getting kicked out of a game or anything like that.”

That's what Griffin remembers thinking way back in the first round of the 2009 NCAA Tournament, when a player from Morgan State flipped him over his back and sent Griffin crashing hard to the court.

Once again, Griffin got up and walked away.

“That was a situation where I really didn't want to do anything because obviously the tournament means everything,” Griffin said. “So nothing anybody could have done at that point (was going to matter). I was not going to put myself or my team in that situation.”

Darnell Mayberry, The Oklahoman

If you don't read, here are some of the players/coaches reasoning for the "foul" treatment....

Andre Miller: His shove was payback for shoves by Griffin and he felt Griffin is protected by league
Monty Williams (Jason Smith): Players don't want to be embarrassed
DeMarcous Cousins: Griffin gets away with everything. He's an actor from Hollywood.
Kendrick Perkins: He's dirty and a known flopper that gets away with stuff. Should have been a double foul.
Serge Ibaka: His game is intense and dirty (even though I'm the one that hit him in the nuts).
David Lee: Stop Flopping Blake.
Andrew Bogut & Draymond Green: Call us cowards, but we'll do "whatever it takes" to win.

[mttwlsn16]

Andre Millers wasnt a shove, he.got a running head start and turned himself into a human torpedo

[Darius]

If Blake is taunting it's very subtle.

The only obvious taunting he does is staredowns after dunks but that's not that often.