Doug McDermott

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Re: Doug McDermott 

Post#261 » by ManualRam » Mon Mar 24, 2014 6:13 pm

42uptop wrote:
ManualRam wrote:
LloydFree wrote:Oh. So he will be a spot up shooter, who can't create his own shot? Seems like that type player should be available when the Bulls pick.

no. he'll be a spot up shooter who can also be used in flex action, PnR, PnP, floppy sets with some mid post game if he goes to the right team that recognizes how he can be used.


Sounds like a 2nd round pick

no it doesn't. you can only hope that 2nd rounders eventually find an offensive role on a team. doug has an nba ready skill set.
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Re: Doug McDermott 

Post#262 » by ManualRam » Mon Mar 24, 2014 6:23 pm

LloydFree wrote:
42uptop wrote:
ManualRam wrote:no. he'll be a spot up shooter who can also be used in flex action, PnR, PnP, floppy sets with some mid post game if he goes to the right team that recognizes how he can be used.


Sounds like a 2nd round pick


That's closer to where he should be drafted, but some fool will take him in the lottery to sell tickets for half a season.

Such excitement to draft a player that you will have to surround with BETTER players to make him the least bit effective. At the same time, the coach will have to be an offensive mastermind to get him open enough to get shots off.


seems like you dont have a concept of building a team and have an inflated view of the capabilities of draftees. the overwhelming majority of players are role players. sounds like a concept you dont seem to understand. not EVERYONE can play on the ball and be the 1st or 2nd option. just look at this years projected class and see how many 1st or 2nd options (on good teams) you can find. there aren't many at all.
and no, an offensive mastermind isn't needed to get doug open. he knows how to get himself open. just something that's not as generic as something team like the 6ers run. with the way he shoots from all over the floor, combined with his quick release, he cannot be helped off of. so he'd able to function and be effective in a generic system too. it'd just be a waste to use him as simply a pressure release drive and kick outlet.
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Re: Doug McDermott 

Post#263 » by 42uptop » Mon Mar 24, 2014 7:14 pm

ManualRam wrote:
42uptop wrote:
ManualRam wrote:no. he'll be a spot up shooter who can also be used in flex action, PnR, PnP, floppy sets with some mid post game if he goes to the right team that recognizes how he can be used.


Sounds like a 2nd round pick

no it doesn't. you can only hope that 2nd rounders eventually find an offensive role on a team. doug has an nba ready skill set.

:lol:
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Re: Doug McDermott 

Post#264 » by ManualRam » Mon Mar 24, 2014 7:37 pm

42uptop wrote:
ManualRam wrote:
42uptop wrote:
Sounds like a 2nd round pick

no it doesn't. you can only hope that 2nd rounders eventually find an offensive role on a team. doug has an nba ready skill set.

:lol:

great reply. something i'd expect after seeing some of your other posts.
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Re: Doug McDermott 

Post#265 » by 42uptop » Mon Mar 24, 2014 7:46 pm

ManualRam wrote:
42uptop wrote:
ManualRam wrote:no it doesn't. you can only hope that 2nd rounders eventually find an offensive role on a team. doug has an nba ready skill set.

:lol:

great reply. something i'd expect after seeing some of your other posts.


There's no point in debating with someone as ridiculously obstinate as yourself
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Re: Doug McDermott 

Post#266 » by ManualRam » Mon Mar 24, 2014 7:50 pm

42uptop wrote:
ManualRam wrote:
42uptop wrote: :lol:

great reply. something i'd expect after seeing some of your other posts.


There's no point in debating with someone as ridiculously obstinate as yourself

good word for someone with your posts. surprising.
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Re: Doug McDermott 

Post#267 » by 42uptop » Mon Mar 24, 2014 8:09 pm

^ your stupidity does not warrant any more responses

McDermott is going to be overdrafted by a bad talent evaluator and I am hoping he does not work in Philadelphia
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Re: Doug McDermott 

Post#268 » by JrueHK » Mon Mar 24, 2014 8:35 pm

Are you serious?

Doug already has a better offensive game than a lot of players in the NBA. It's just his size and lack of elite athleticism that seem to hurt him. He has a great ball IQ offensively and doesn't seem that bad defensively either.

Like MR said, he can score from almost anywhere and knows how to get open. He will be a fine player in the NBA.
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Re: Doug McDermott 

Post#269 » by ManualRam » Mon Mar 24, 2014 8:53 pm

42uptop wrote:^ your stupidity does not warrant any more responses

McDermott is going to be overdrafted by a bad talent evaluator and I am hoping he does not work in Philadelphia

yet you still decided to respond anyway. oh the irony of you using the word "obstinate."

given the type of players that the new PHI FO has drafted and traded for, he doesn't fit the mold. he's actually intelligent and knows how to play. he wouldn't be a good fit with a bunch of young, dumb players in a generic offensive system. i wouldn't be worried about them taking him.
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Re: Doug McDermott 

Post#270 » by LloydFree » Mon Mar 24, 2014 9:01 pm

18 pages of wasted breath on a guy that is a future role player at best. McDermott needs to hope he gets drafted by a loaded team, that will sit him at the 3 point line like the 30 year old Mike Miller, so he can stay in the league long enough to get a pension.
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Re: Doug McDermott 

Post#271 » by CBB_Fan » Mon Mar 24, 2014 10:51 pm

LloydFree wrote:18 pages of wasted breath on a guy that is a future role player at best. McDermott needs to hope he gets drafted by a loaded team, that will sit him at the 3 point line like the 30 year old Mike Miller, so he can stay in the league long enough to get a pension.


Good roleplayers are the difference between top teams in the league and the middling teams that occasionally have stars but never win it all. There is no shame to being a roleplayer. An elite roleplayer is one of the more valuable players in the NBA, behind max deal superstars and good players still on their rookie contracts.

3rd, 4th, and 5th option players may not be glamorous, but everyone needs players that can make the most of limited possessions. There are three ways of doing so. One is scoring at a very high efficiency and small volume (catch and shoot players), aka the Korver way. The second is rebounding the ball and creating extra offensive possessions, a la Rodman. Finally, defensive stoppers have a place on every team.

The best teams in the league have always been the ones that found good role players to complement their stars, like the '96 Bulls did with the GOAT roleplayer in Rodman, and sharpshooters like Kerr. If McDermott's future is to be a 3PT specialist on a team like the Heat, he'll be more successful than the vast majority of NBA players.
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Re: Doug McDermott 

Post#272 » by LloydFree » Mon Mar 24, 2014 11:18 pm

CBB_Fan wrote:
LloydFree wrote:18 pages of wasted breath on a guy that is a future role player at best. McDermott needs to hope he gets drafted by a loaded team, that will sit him at the 3 point line like the 30 year old Mike Miller, so he can stay in the league long enough to get a pension.


Good roleplayers are the difference between top teams in the league and the middling teams that occasionally have stars but never win it all. There is no shame to being a roleplayer. An elite roleplayer is one of the more valuable players in the NBA, behind max deal superstars and good players still on their rookie contracts.

3rd, 4th, and 5th option players may not be glamorous, but everyone needs players that can make the most of limited possessions. There are three ways of doing so. One is scoring at a very high efficiency and small volume (catch and shoot players), aka the Korver way. The second is rebounding the ball and creating extra offensive possessions, a la Rodman. Finally, defensive stoppers have a place on every team.

The best teams in the league have always been the ones that found good role players to complement their stars, like the '96 Bulls did with the GOAT roleplayer in Rodman, and sharpshooters like Kerr. If McDermott's future is to be a 3PT specialist on a team like the Heat, he'll be more successful than the vast majority of NBA players.


I agree role players are important, but teams in the lottery aren't at the stage of completing their teams with role players. They need good starters. Most important, is that role players need to play on teams with good starters so they can be effective, because they can't be effective on their own. You don't waste your lottery picks on guys you project as non-starters or 3 pt specialists. You can get a role player to give you what McDermott is going to give you, every year for a portion of your MLE. I see guys here panting with excitement, hoping their team throws away their lottery pick on a player they can pick up every year for almost nothing.

McDermott doesn't even have a position in the NBA. Its shocking that so many don't see that.
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Re: Doug McDermott 

Post#273 » by CBB_Fan » Tue Mar 25, 2014 12:08 am

LloydFree wrote:I agree role players are important, but teams in the lottery aren't at the stage of completing their teams with role players. They need good starters. Most important, is that role players need to play on teams with good starters so they can be effective, because they can't be effective on their own. You don't waste your lottery picks on guys you project as non-starters or 3 pt specialists. You can get a role player to give you what McDermott is going to give you, every year for a portion of your MLE. I see guys here panting with excitement, hoping their team throws away their lottery pick on a player they can pick up every year for almost nothing.

McDermott doesn't even have a position in the NBA. Its shocking that so many don't see that.


I agree that for most lottery teams it is better to role the dice on a potential starter (meaning, a top 3 offensive option in this case, since many roleplayers start) than pick McDermott at this time. My point was more that a McDermott's floor is a contributing, effective player with a definite place on a good team than to say that is his only possible future.

I also disagree that it is easy to get a quality roleplayer; there aren't a ton of them and most of them are already clustered on the good teams. They may have a relatively small impact on a team's cap space, but that doesn't mean they are freely available for any team to take. There are plenty of low quality roleplayers in the league, just like there are plenty of chuckers, but the great ones are rare and usually don't go to teams that are contenders.

And of course, I think there is a chance McDermott can be a 1st or 2nd option scorer instead of a just being a shooter. His off-ball scoring is exceptional at this point, but he does have a decent post game and can use a variety of moves to create space on the perimeter. Position doesn't matter too much on offense, but on defense it would probably come down to whether or the team's SF or PF is less of an offensive threat.
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Re: Doug McDermott 

Post#274 » by ComboGuardCity » Tue Mar 25, 2014 12:52 am

Why is Doug Mcdermott suddenly a surefire role player at the very least? He's not. He cannot create his own shot. He's got the footspeed of a below average PF. When was the last time you saw team running curls for a big on the perimeter? Its beyond stupid.
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Re: Doug McDermott 

Post#275 » by Leslie Forman » Tue Mar 25, 2014 12:57 am

The entirety of
CBB_Fan wrote:And of course, I think there is a chance McDermott can be a 1st or 2nd option scorer instead of a just being a shooter.

One should never say never, but the likelihood of McDermott being a decent 2nd option in the NBA is somewhere between never and so close to never that it practically is never.

In order to be that level of a scorer, you need to be able to create space for yourself on a regular basis against NBA defenses. He is simply not going to be able to do that. Adam Morrison couldn't even do it, how a guy who is less athletic and a worse ballhandler will do it completely eludes my imagination.

I can't wait to now hear the reasoning for how McDermott is somehow a better prospect than a guy who was picked third.
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Re: Doug McDermott 

Post#276 » by CBB_Fan » Tue Mar 25, 2014 1:11 am

ComboGuardCity wrote:Why is Doug Mcdermott suddenly a surefire role player at the very least? He's not. He cannot create his own shot. He's got the footspeed of a below average PF. When was the last time you saw team running curls for a big on the perimeter? Its beyond stupid.


Not being able to create a shot is why many players ARE roleplayers instead of stars. If players could shoot 45% from 3 without any team help, they'd be elite 1st option players, but instead they are low volume players that rely on teammates getting them the ball.

But the key is that McDermott is very good at moving off the ball to get open. See this short bit on his draftexpress profile (goes to about 4:52):

[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2mpuXZq-hQo#t=223[/youtube]

He's capable of getting open without the ball in his hands, and always dangerous in pick-n-pop plays or in simple catch-and-shoot scenario.
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Re: Doug McDermott 

Post#277 » by CBB_Fan » Tue Mar 25, 2014 1:11 am

ComboGuardCity wrote:Why is Doug Mcdermott suddenly a surefire role player at the very least? He's not. He cannot create his own shot. He's got the footspeed of a below average PF. When was the last time you saw team running curls for a big on the perimeter? Its beyond stupid.


Not being able to create a shot is why many players ARE roleplayers instead of stars. If players could shoot 45% from 3 without any team help, they'd be elite 1st option players, but instead they are low volume players that rely on teammates getting them the ball.

But the key is that McDermott is very good at moving off the ball to get open. See this short bit on his draftexpress profile (goes to about 4:52):

[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2mpuXZq-hQo#t=223[/youtube]

He's capable of getting open without the ball in his hands, and always dangerous in pick-n-pop plays or in simple catch-and-shoot scenario.
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Re: Doug McDermott 

Post#278 » by DaddyCool19 » Tue Mar 25, 2014 1:12 am

1st or 2nd option isn't really possible. I think the best thing for him would be landing on a defensive oriented team who could need a scorer from the bench who could space the floor. I can see Doug turning in to a 25MPG bench scorer while giving his team 10-12 PPG and 4-5 RPG.
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Re: Doug McDermott 

Post#279 » by ComboGuardCity » Tue Mar 25, 2014 1:16 am

CBB_Fan wrote:
ComboGuardCity wrote:Why is Doug Mcdermott suddenly a surefire role player at the very least? He's not. He cannot create his own shot. He's got the footspeed of a below average PF. When was the last time you saw team running curls for a big on the perimeter? Its beyond stupid.


Not being able to create a shot is why many players ARE roleplayers instead of stars. If players could shoot 45% from 3 without any team help, they'd be elite 1st option players, but instead they are low volume players that rely on teammates getting them the ball.

But the key is that McDermott is very good at moving off the ball to get open. See this short bit on his draftexpress profile (goes to about 4:52):

[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2mpuXZq-hQo#t=223[/youtube]

He's capable of getting open without the ball in his hands, and always dangerous in pick-n-pop plays or in simple catch-and-shoot scenario.

The problem is, those role players can play defense. Doug cannot play defense at the next level. He's going to make Charlie V look like Bill Russell. Name a decent pick and pop role player who doesn't play a lick of D.
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Re: Doug McDermott 

Post#280 » by ManualRam » Tue Mar 25, 2014 1:35 am

ComboGuardCity wrote:Why is Doug Mcdermott suddenly a surefire role player at the very least? He's not. He cannot create his own shot. He's got the footspeed of a below average PF. When was the last time you saw team running curls for a big on the perimeter? Its beyond stupid.

at his baseline he's an exceptional shooter, who can catch and make shots from every level of the floor with a quick release. that aspect alone makes him a valuable role player. surefire? rarely are players surefire anything, but the likelihood of doug being an exceptional shooter is high.

role players aren't expected to create their own shots.

the t'wolves run curls for k-love. there's one. the pel's and magic ran short curl plays for ryan anderson. there's 2. mavs have short curl plays for dirk. there's 3. running those type of plays isn't about foot speed anyways. it's about timing, execution, the curler being able to read defenses on the fly, knowing the counters and being able to quick release with accuracy on the move. like if the defender goes over the top- corner fade. defender is locking and trailing too tight- stop and go. locking and trailing too loose - tight curl off the screener's hip. how was peja's foot speed? chis mullin? dale ellis? dennis scott? dell curry? how is mike dunleavy's footspeed currently? mike miller, dan majerle, wally szczerbiak, jeff hornacek, chuck person, tracy murray? heck how is steph curry's foot speed compared to his defenders'? he's not exactly losing defenders off of curls because of his straight speed and quickness.
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