Good Offensive rebounding = bad transition defense

[Joe Berry]

I am still asking myself why this team is so terrible defensively. Offensive rebounding seems to be a big part of the problem. The Pistons are first in offensive rebound rate and first in offensive rebounds per game.
http://espn.go.com/nba/hollinger/teamst ... eboundRate
http://espn.go.com/nba/statistics/team/ ... veRebounds

The revelation, of course, has happened on the other end, where Steve Clifford, the team’s first-year head coach, has helped turn the Bobcats into a top-10 defense. They’ve been in that stratosphere since the first week of the season, and I predicted during that first month they would fall off at least a bit. I’m going to end up wrong.

As detailed here, Clifford has installed a basic system designed to minimize Jefferson’s limitations and provide clear roles for everyone. The results have been stunning. Charlotte has been the league’s stingiest transition defense by almost any measure, following Clifford’s demands to get back on defense immediately upon the release of a shot instead of crashing the boards. “Year in and year out,” Clifford says, “offensive rebounding is not a big factor in which teams win big.”3 That goes for McRoberts if he happens to be on the outside, and for every perimeter player save the bouncy Michael Kidd-Gilchrist — though Henderson admits to breaking the rule now and then. “I hope nobody gets jealous,” Kidd-Gilchrist says, laughing. “I’m just trying to help us win.”

Jefferson hangs back in the paint on pick-and-rolls, an easier system that addresses his lack of foot speed. “The scheme works more to my advantage,” he says. “And the biggest reason is really that Coach just demands it more out of me.”

The Bobcats rarely foul, and they all crash the defensive glass. Charlotte tops the league in defensive rebounding rate after finishing 29th last season and 25th the year before, per NBA.com. Clifford has put off the fancier stuff to spend Year 1 on the basics. Turns out, the basics alone are pretty powerful. The Bobcats have constructed a very good defense with so-so talent, a liability at center, and almost zero rim protection.

http://grantland.com/features/the-charl ... lding-nba/

Amazing what Clifford has done with a lousy defensive team like Charlotte. I hope the next Pistons head coach will do the same here, except for Drummond no one should be allowed to go after the off. rebound. (and maybe Monroe for very few occasions.) A good transition defense is more important to establish a good defensive team.

[ImHeisenberg]

Why are you asking yourself why the team is bad defensively? Just watch any number of defensive sets where they pull out the red carpet for a cutter to catch the ball and get an uncontested dunk.

The offensive rebounding is one aspect, sure. But, that's hardly the main reason.

[Joe Berry]

Yes i know this team is fundamentaly flawed on the defensive end, just reading Lowes article i was surprised how Charlottes decision to focus on transition defense instead of off-rebounding seems to be a big part of their turnaround from being one of the worst defensive teams to one of the best.
I am just wondering if this simple coaching tactic would help the Pistons in the same way. ( Not saying that is solves all the problems the Pistons have on defense)

[Clarity]

The defensive issues are easy to pin point, The wing trio of Jennings/Singler & Smith are useless. Not one of them can even spell defense, maybe the worst wing trio I have ever seen.

Teams penetrate at will against us which causes the bigs to overplay which usually results in a wide open jumper or an easy layup because said bigs are way out of position..

I would hate being a big on this team on defense.

[Joe Berry]

Yeah i know all that too. Has someone stats for transition defense? With the 3 bigs the Pistons really seem to focus off-rebounding this season (because thats one of their strengths) but i want to know how much impact it has on an already bad defense.

[ComboGuardCity]

Memphis and Chicago round out the top 5 so you can obviously be a good Oreb team while being good defensively. The problem is josh smith playing Free Safety and Jennings directing the opposition like a traffic conductor.

[Clarity]

Memphis and Chicago round out the top 5 so you can obviously be a good Oreb team while being good defensively. The problem is josh smith playing Free Safety and Jennings directing the opposition like a traffic conductor.

amen

[ImHeisenberg]

Memphis and Chicago round out the top 5 so you can obviously be a good Oreb team while being good defensively. The problem is josh smith playing Free Safety and Jennings directing the opposition like a traffic conductor.

Chicago also highlight the value of team chemistry, and players personality and ability to commit to a system. I mean, Thibs can make Mike Dunleavy and DJ Augustin look like passable defenders.

I mean, they're tied for 3rd in the east with their best player averaging around 10 PPG.

[jakebernat]

our main problems on defense are as follows:
-our horribly slow rotations which stem from smith's inability to defend wings off the ball and monroe's overall ineffectiveness defending away from the basket
-our reluctance to play disciplined team defense coupled with our willingness to gamble far too often. how many times has smennings tried to intercept a pass on the wing only to leave the other 4 pistons at a disadvantage? what about when drummond tries to reach for a steal on a guard instead of playing him in straight up coming off a P&R? this next one infuriates me the most: jennings and bynum have this HORRIBLE habit of double teaming the post for literally no reason at all, leaving their man wide open for a kick-out. this happens constantly.
-lastly, we just allow far too much dribble penetration. you can't expect to have a passable defense when guards are literally doing whatever they want out there.

[jakebernat]

also, our transition defense isn't helped at all when smith and jennings launch long jumper after long jumper (bad shots spark transition opportunities for the other team).

[vic]

Jake bernat

Has it all right those are the primary problems to address before we eliminate a strength.

[jakebernat]

i'm honestly shocked we haven't implemented some kind of a zone defense to mask some of these weaknesses. in a perfect world, next season we will have replaced smith with a true 2-way 3, and we will hide monroe on defense with a kind of hybrid man-zone defensive system that you see all the elite defensive teams run.

[paQo the BAWSER]

i'm honestly shocked we haven't implemented some kind of a zone defense to mask some of these weaknesses. in a perfect world, next season we will have replaced smith with a true 2-way 3, and we will hide monroe on defense with a kind of hybrid man-zone defensive system that you see all the elite defensive teams run.

If we trade Smith to sign Monroe as PF, this team is definitely condemned to the misery. While Smith was playing as SF, his value is zero and we can't get a s**t for him, but with Monroe we could trick some team which believe he could be a potential all star. If he plays as C and next to a defensive rim protector PF, I think he could be a nice player. But not here, with Drummond.

[jakebernat]

If we trade Smith to sign Monroe as PF, this team is definitely condemned to the misery

that sentence alone is just plain overdramatic. maybe monroe isn't the answer at PF next to drummond, but we never really gave him a legitimate chance to prove (or disprove) that. at absolute worst, we would be able to move a reasonably contracted monroe for more complimentary pieces to dre. either way, any "misery" this team deals with involves smith, jennings, dumars, or our draft pick. monroe is far from the problem.

[Q00]

If we trade Smith to sign Monroe as PF, this team is definitely condemned to the misery

that sentence alone is just plain overdramatic. maybe monroe isn't the answer at PF next to drummond, but we never really gave him a legitimate chance to prove (or disprove) that. at absolute worst, we would be able to move a reasonably contracted monroe for more complimentary pieces to dre. either way, any "misery" this team deals with involves smith, jennings, dumars, or our draft pick. monroe is far from the problem.

Monroe has been just as much of a problem this year as anyone. How can you say that after watching this season and how many times his horrendous defense have cost them?

This team's problems are on defense more than anything and he's one of the biggest reasons.

If they signed him to a reasonable contract that could be traded later that's one thing, but he's most likely going to get a 15 mil/yr deal which will not be easily tradeable later. And if you have to think about how to trade him before even signing him, that's probably a hint not to sign him in the first place. You don't want to end up with an Eric Gordon situation, where you max out a player you don't want just to keep him as an asset, and then find out later that his contract is untradeable.

Monroe isn't a bad player overall, but I refuse to believe that of all the PFs in the league and upcoming draft, that he is the best compliment we can get next to Drummond. So for that reason, we shouldn't be so eager to commit to him because there are better options available to spend that money on. And if there aren't, then you just sign someone cheap for the time being and be patient until you can get that perfect fit PF.

I would rather sign a cheap utility 4 for a few years who can just play tough defense and make an open jumpshot. Who might not produce as much as Monroe individually, but could make the team as a whole better because he fits better with Drummond on offense and allows us to be a better defensive team. Then have the rest of that money to spend on other needs, as well as have Monroe to use as a trade chip. I just think we have too many other needs to be re-investing big money into a frontcourt pairing that isn't even a great fit. If they were the second coming of Wallace x2 from a chemistry/fit standpoint, I'd absolutely be all for it, but that's just not the case. They are an average fit at best and that's just not good enough to justify that type of investmen,t with so many other needs that we should be spending that money on instead.

[ComboGuardCity]

If we trade Smith to sign Monroe as PF, this team is definitely condemned to the misery

that sentence alone is just plain overdramatic. maybe monroe isn't the answer at PF next to drummond, but we never really gave him a legitimate chance to prove (or disprove) that. at absolute worst, we would be able to move a reasonably contracted monroe for more complimentary pieces to dre. either way, any "misery" this team deals with involves smith, jennings, dumars, or our draft pick. monroe is far from the problem.

Monroe has been just as much of a problem this year as anyone. How can you say that after watching this season and how many times his horrendous defense have cost them?

This team's problems are on defense more than anything and he's one of the biggest reasons.

Actually no. Monroe has been forced to guard to team's best post player night in and night out as we wait for Drummond to contain himself from fouling out. Monroe will be just fine once we get a real defensive scheme and Drummond grows into the player we need him to be.

[Q00]

that sentence alone is just plain overdramatic. maybe monroe isn't the answer at PF next to drummond, but we never really gave him a legitimate chance to prove (or disprove) that. at absolute worst, we would be able to move a reasonably contracted monroe for more complimentary pieces to dre. either way, any "misery" this team deals with involves smith, jennings, dumars, or our draft pick. monroe is far from the problem.

Monroe has been just as much of a problem this year as anyone. How can you say that after watching this season and how many times his horrendous defense have cost them?

This team's problems are on defense more than anything and he's one of the biggest reasons.

Actually no. Monroe has been forced to guard to team's best post player night in and night out as we wait for Drummond to contain himself from fouling out. Monroe will be just fine once we get a real defensive scheme and Drummond grows into the player we need him to be.

I think you have that mixed up. There's a reason Drummond is always the one in foul trouble while Monroe stays clean as a whistle and its not because he's a better defender. Its because Drummond actually makes an effort to protect our paint and goes for blocks, while Monroe just rolls out the red carpet and gets out of the way. Its Drummond that is the one always left to clean up Monroe and Jennings mistakes, putting him in bad spots defensively to get in foul trouble.

Also, that's not true that Monroe has been guarding the other teams best post player every night. For one the Pistons haven't crossmatched much defensively up front all year. So the other teams best post player changes night to night, in terms of position, and Drummond guards the 5's and Monroe guards the 4's. So its probably been even at best, as far as how many times either has had to guard an elite post player. I know it was Drummond as the primary defender on Howard, Jefferson, and Cousins in all of their matchups, not Monroe.

Make no mistake, Monroe is the one holding Drummond back from reaching his potential on defense, not the other way around. Big Ben would never have been what he was if he had a PF like Monroe next to him on defense to always have to cover, and Drummond will never reach his max potential on defense with Monroe next to him either.

[ComboGuardCity]

I think you have that mixed up. There's a reason Drummond is always the one in foul trouble while Monroe stays clean as a whistle and its not because he's a better defender. Its because Drummond actually makes an effort to protect our paint and goes for blocks, while Monroe just rolls out the red carpet and gets out of the way. Its Drummond that is the one always left to clean up Monroe and Jennings mistakes, putting him in bad spots defensively to get in foul trouble.

Also, that's not true that Monroe has been guarding the other teams best post player every night. For one the Pistons haven't crossmatched much defensively up front all year. So the other teams best post player changes night to night, in terms of position, and Drummond guards the 5's and Monroe guards the 4's. So its probably been even at best, as far as how many times either has had to guard an elite post player. I know it was Drummond as the primary defender on Howard, Jefferson, and Cousins in all of their matchups, not Monroe.

Make no mistake, Monroe is the one holding Drummond back from reaching his potential on defense, not the other way around. Big Ben would never have been what he was if he had a PF like Monroe next to him on defense to always have to cover, and Drummond will never reach his max potential on defense with Monroe next to him either.

No, you have it mixed up. Monroe has been guarding Aldridge, Cousins, Big Al, Duncan. The only time Drummond gets matched up with the better post player is when the opponent's 4 is a stretch guy,

And for the love of god, stop making excuses for Drummond. Howard anchored a top defensive team with Hedo/Rashard at the 4, two of the worst 4 defenders in the league. If Drummond is going to be great, he will be great, regardless of who he's playing next to. Some of you have such a weird concept how getting better works.

[jakebernat]

Monroe has been just as much of a problem this year as anyone. How can you say that after watching this season and how many times his horrendous defense have cost them?

This team's problems are on defense more than anything and he's one of the biggest reasons.

If they signed him to a reasonable contract that could be traded later that's one thing, but he's most likely going to get a 15 mil/yr deal which will not be easily tradeable later. And if you have to think about how to trade him before even signing him, that's probably a hint not to sign him in the first place. You don't want to end up with an Eric Gordon situation, where you max out a player you don't want just to keep him as an asset, and then find out later that his contract is untradeable.

Monroe isn't a bad player overall, but I refuse to believe that of all the PFs in the league and upcoming draft, that he is the best compliment we can get next to Drummond. So for that reason, we shouldn't be so eager to commit to him because there are better options available to spend that money on. And if there aren't, then you just sign someone cheap for the time being and be patient until you can get that perfect fit PF.

I would rather sign a cheap utility 4 for a few years who can just play tough defense and make an open jumpshot. Who might not produce as much as Monroe individually, but could make the team as a whole better because he fits better with Drummond on offense and allows us to be a better defensive team. Then have the rest of that money to spend on other needs, as well as have Monroe to use as a trade chip. I just think we have too many other needs to be re-investing big money into a frontcourt pairing that isn't even a great fit. If they were the second coming of Wallace x2 from a chemistry/fit standpoint, I'd absolutely be all for it, but that's just not the case. They are an average fit at best and that's just not good enough to justify that type of investmen,t with so many other needs that we should be spending that money on instead.

i understand that, and i'm with you for the most part. we definitely have many other needs, and eventually spending half of cap space on our starting 4 & 5 might not be the wisest of decisions, but we simply have to retain monroe. there is no way we can allow him to walk for nothing. since smith does not fit any future or present plans, the drumroe frontcourt has to be in full effect. we can still fill other needs while we have major contributors on rookie contracts. besides, monroe would be much easier to move than an injury-riddled undersized scoring guard like eric gordon.

[DBC10]

It's laughable to say that Monroe is somehow stunting Dre's growth when he's the only one that actually looks for him when the double comes since giving it to Smith or Jennings will result in a chuck. Smith has been worse for Dre in every single facet since he will chuck or completely snooze on defense on his man. Monroe feeds Dre fine and on the defensive end, and everyone has been bad as well. Monroe isn't the biggest reason why our defense is poor either, it's been Jennings, Singler, and Smith being sieves on the perimeter. We all know who Jennings is so no need to beat the horse to death. Singler can't guard 2s at all and has been indirectly contributing to the tank ever since KCP was off the starting lineup. When his shots are falling, that's good for spacing, but defense, he picks up fouls at an alarming rate because he gets blown by most of the time by smaller 2s.

Smith gets leveled off picks consistently and can't guard smart/quick 3s at all which means more guards and 3s penetrating from the weak side which causes it to fall on either Dre or Monroe. The thing is, Monroe is guarding 4s which means a lot of times, he's floating away from the paint anyways. It's really up to Dre to anchor it despite our failings on defense.

That's literally how the season has been going. And yes Monroe has been bad not being able to guard the PnR man that's rolling and containing the guard penetrations. Dre has been inconsistent at defending too when the roll man is rolling but he ends up gambling a lot so I'm thinking it's the defensive scheme (leftover from Cheeks) that's affecting his defense MORE than what Monroe is being claimed to be.

The potential for Dre to be a great defender is there, as the physical tools is in place. It really is upon him to make that next step and be a smarter defender along with a coach that can come in and instill discipline on that side to play consistent and heavy defense. It's not any one player's fault if Dre doesn't reach his defensive potential. If Noah with Boozer can do it, I can see Dre working with Monroe too.