ATFL FINALS - Bruh Man vs. ThunderDan9

[MisterHibachi]

This is the thread for the Final matchup of the All-Time Fantasy League.

General Discussion in this thread: viewtopic.php?f=64&t=1293300
Draft was in this thread: viewtopic.php?f=64&t=1294562
Playoff results in this thread: viewtopic.php?f=64&t=1299878

Eastern Conference Champion: (8) Bruh Man
1. Kevin Garnett (03-05)
2. Scottie Pippen (94-96)
3. Reggie Miller (93-95)
4. Jason Kidd (01-03)
5. Mitch Richmond (95-97)
6. Roy Hibbert (12-14)
7. Blake Griffin (12-14)
8. Tim Hardaway (91-93)
9. Nene Hilario (09-11)
10. Tayshaun Prince (07-09)

Western Conference Champion: (5) ThunderDan9
1. Larry Bird (84-86)
2. Dwight Howard (09-11)
3. Manu Ginobili (05-07)
4. Mark Price (92-94)
5. Horace Grant (93-95)
6. Bernard King (82-84)
7. Vlade Divac (95-97)
8. Derek Harper (88-90)
9. Dan Majerle (91-93)
10. Josh Smith (10-12)

Judges
bastillon
TMACFORMVP
penbeast0
ronnymac2: ThunderDan9
Doctor MJ
SideshowBob
Texas Chuck
therealbig3
whitehops
Quotatious: ThunderDan9
john248
MisterHibachi: ThunderDan9

In each match up, GMs will offer their preliminary strategy for beating the other team and reasons for why their team is stronger. GMs will also have the opportunity to respond to the opponent's strategy. Judges will offer any comments and questions they have of the GMs and finally will cast their vote for whichever team they think is stronger simply by saying 'Team A wins this matchup' or 'Team B wins this matchup'. Whoever gets more votes moves on.

Good luck!

[ThunderDan9]

So, the Finals.
My version of Larry has been there 4 times. Grant 4 times, Manu 3 times, Howard 1 time. In fact, the only member of my starting 5 without Finals experience is Price. That's an edge over Scottie Pippen and Jason Kidd.

This should be a great Finals, i like the fact that both teams are stacked with SMART and competitive basketball PLAYERS. I try to visualize the game... there should be plenty of swagger, trash talk, and just all-around amazing basketball.

Of course, the identity of my team (and BruhMan's team) is kind of given... discussed in details in the previous rounds. The Finals is not the place and time to invent brand new schemes and tactics, so I would just like to refer to the previous write-ups:

http://forums.realgm.com/boards/viewtopic.php?f=64&t=1300053
http://forums.realgm.com/boards/viewtopic.php?f=64&t=1304318
http://forums.realgm.com/boards/viewtopic.php?f=64&t=1306996

Especially the first one, because there are most of the general ideas to be found.

Onto the specifics.

BruhMan's team is a unique and special team of course. Arguably (some would say: definitely ) the best defensive team of the tournament with the tandem of Garnett/Pippen... Hibbert in the middle, Kidd at the point. I like this idea... the talent pool that we drafted from was unusally deep in terms os scoring talents, so BruhMan's strategy to pick the Garnett/Pippen core and then adding even more great defenders certainly makes sense. But. There is always a down-side. This teams lacks a dominant offensive stud. Of course, it's not like Garnett, Pippen, Kidd would be bad offensive players at all, and the bench provides some scoring (Richmond, Hardaway, Griffin) but still, in the course of a tense playoff series, against teams of this high caliber... there will be times when BruhMan's half court offense just won't work. The best offensive option here is Reggie, there is no denying it that he is a terrific player. But apart from him noone really strikes fear into my heart. The ball movement should be pretty much solid, but I can't see this offense CREATING opportunities in the scale Larry&co can.

The thing is, my defense is kind of underrated and still very good. And it fits pretty good against BruhMan's somewhat limited offense compared to the previous rounds... There is no McGrady, no Erving, no Durant to guard here! A true relieve! Pippen shouldn't be underestimated though, but on the whole, Bird/Grant should be an excellent forward unit defensively... Both are able to check both Pippen and Garnett, they are smart and crafty, could be pretty effective in defending the pick-and-roll... and there is 3*DPOY Dwight Howard lurking in the middle. Ginobili is a tenacious and smart defender on the perimeter (of course, chasing Reggie is not an easy job to do). Price gives up some inches and pounds in size of course, but that shouldn't be a major factor, it's nearly not like Penny vs. Price was. I have Derek Harper, Dan Majerle and Josh Smith from the bench to provide additional defensive spark. With "only" Hibbert and Nene as opposing centers, Howard could be even more valuable here than usual... anchoring a great interior defense.

An all-time great defense (BruhMan) is a good thing.... an all-time great offense is even better. OK, I'm biased.
But all of my perimeter players handle the ball well, pass amazingly, and SHOOT. That's a scary combination even against BruhMan's fantastic defense. Howard in the middle exploiting defensive glitches for easy buckets. (And my backup C - Divac - is once again a favorable matchup against Nene.) Grant hitting midrange jumpers, doing all the little things, setting screens, rebounding. And I have a joker player from the bench in Bernard King if the offensive production needs to be turned up another gear (King/Bird), or maintain the offensive pressure while Bird is resting (King/Grant). Garnett and Pippen will try their best to guard Bird... still won't work.

In the end, I see more trouble for BruhMan in stopping my offense than for me stopping his.
And if it's close, he "only" has Reggie. I have Larry. Manu. And then some. That's and edge in the final minutes of this tournament.

[Texas Chuck]

Congrats to both guys.

Bruh Man was one of my 2 favorite teams as the draft was occuring and ThunderDan has maybe been my favorite team since reading all the contestant's strategies. Haven't looked into this specific matchup yet and won't until more is posted, but I disagree with everyone saying a previous series should be the finals. This is a great finals matchup and I absolutely think both guys deserve to be here.

[MisterHibachi]

Are we gonna get anything from Bruh Man?

[Quotatious]

Are we gonna get anything from Bruh Man?

Someone should probably PM him, to make sure he's still keeping in touch with this project.

[MisterHibachi]

Are we gonna get anything from Bruh Man?

Someone should probably PM him, to make sure he's still keeping in touch with this project.

Done.

[Texas Chuck]

Im ready to congratulate ThunderDan on his win. Bruh Man built a great team, but you gotta show up to the gym to win.

[MisterHibachi]

Disappointing end to the playoffs. Draft was fun, but playoffs were disappointing imo. We started the playoffs on Jan 25 lmao.

If we ever do this again, we should try and enforce a time limit on both the GMs and the judges. I don't know how to enforce it tho.

For the formality:

Vote: ThunderDan9

[ronnymac2]

Vote: ThunderDan9

[Quotatious]

Vote: ThunderDan9


I'm obviously also REALLY disappointed that Bruh Man didn't show up - especially given that it were the finals...Weird to see that he didn't want to take advantage of his chance to win it all...He last visited the forums yesterday at 8.17 PM, so it seems like him not showing up to finish this thing was deliberate, not a result of a lack of free time.

Anyway, I might organize this again, if there were 16 guys who were really willing to take care of it, in the offseason, when everyone will get bored without the NBA basketball, and maybe after we'll finish the top 100 list, which I believe Doctor MJ plans on doing again. I think we'll make the pool of available players a lot bigger, and include the 60s greats as well, going with the 1954-55 season - the introduction of the shot clock, as a starting point. Personally, I greatly enjoyed participating in this project.
What do you think guys?

[MisterHibachi]

Vote: ThunderDan9


I'm obviously also REALLY disappointed that Bruh Man didn't show up - especially given that it were the finals...Weird to see that he didn't want to take advantage of his chance to win it all...He last visited the forums yesterday at 8.17 PM, so it seems like him not showing up to finish this thing was deliberate, not a result of a lack of free time.

Anyway, I might organize this again, if there were 16 guys who were really willing to take care of it, in the offseason, when every will get bored without the NBA basketball, and maybe after we'll finish the top 100 list, which I believe Doctor MJ plans on doing again. I think we'll make the pool of available players a lot bigger, and include the 60s greats as well, going with the 1954-55 season - the introduction of the shot clock, as a starting point. Personally, I greatly enjoyed participating in this project.
What do you think guys?

I'm obviously interested if you do organize it again. Losing in the first round left a bad taste in my mouth.

And it was a lot of fun. Draft was fun. Early rounds of the playoffs and the write ups were all very exciting. There are obviously improvements to be made. ElGee (I think it was him) raised a point early in the playoffs that it was tough to evaluate a player over a 3 year period for a single playoff series. So next time maybe we keep it to one year peaks. It'll change the draft a lot and increase the talent pool. Overall, I'll give this project a 7.5/10 for excitement. Would be higher if the playoffs were better.

[ThunderDan9]

I think the 1st round of the playoffs was excellent though. (Almost) everybody was active and motivated, and I particularly enjoyed the quality posts of the judges, those were occasionally absolutely amazing.

These projects are prone to this disease... motivation fades. Look at even the great "Top100" project...
Theoretically, this playoff format should have been of course a cure for this disease, and still this phenomenon showed up. I checked out some earlier similar projects, and it was more or less the same pattern in those earlier all-time drafts as well...

As for the Finals, I didn't realize until the Finals pairing, what a great TEAM BruhMan assembled. For me, he went somewhat under the radar. It looks like a great, great Finals on paper.

All in all, it was an exciting project, thanks for all the organizers, participants and judges.

[ThaRegul8r]

These have tended to fizzle out on the Trades and Transactions Games subforum due to lack of participation by the participants or the voters. The last Golden Era Draft suffered from a lack of voters and the last All Time League playoffs just never finished.

Unfortunately this particular game never finished and I dunno if we have the community in these parts to get such a game going. Lot of people who played those games have either lost interest or left the board entirely.

There's more interest in contemporary players than in using past players, using the activity over there as a guide.

[Texas Chuck]

Anyway, I might organize this again, if there were 16 guys who were really willing to take care of it,
What do you think guys?

I'd be interested in participating if you ran this again. I followed it closely the whole way and thought it a really cool project.

[Quotatious]

I'd be interested in participating if you ran this again. I followed it closely the whole way and thought it a really cool project.

You're most welcome, I think we'll need more posters like you if we want this thing to go smoothly. I'm totally confident that you would take care of it, if you decide to participate. IIRC, you were usually one of (if not THE) first judges who offered their insight in any particular matchups, as soon as the participants posted their gameplans.

[Timmaytime]

I would be interested as well, my basketball knowledge isn't quite at the level of you guys but you can ask TC, I've been very active in the TnT games and would definitely stay around for this one

[john248]

Easy for anyone to say they're interested. People are more interested in the draft. Of all the teams, only a few of them had nice write ups even in the 1st round.

Sent from my Galaxy Note 3

[JohnStockton]

As for the Finals, I didn't realize until the Finals pairing, what a great TEAM BruhMan assembled. For me, he went somewhat under the radar. It looks like a great, great Finals on paper.

All in all, it was an exciting project, thanks for all the organizers, participants and judges.

Well, ThunderDan9, I guess that makes you the winner by default.

[Laimbeer]

Wow, so this is how the ATFL ended. Sorry to see it fizzle out like this.

Pace is everything - a couple of suggestions. First, have the coaches make one generic write up for their team. Strengths, weaknesses, strategies, minutes, etc. Paste those as the kickoff to all of their match ups. Coaches wouldn't post anything else in threads involving their team. No formal list of judges. Just open it up for discussion and voting - maybe 48 or 72 hours - amongst the entire PC forum. Let the entire PC forum vote via poll.

I've also kicked around the idea of a FFL - Franchise Fantasy League. There wouldn't be a player draft. Coaches would choose an actual NBA franchise...Lakers, Celtics, Sixers, etc. They would choose their roster from those franchise histories, under similar guidleines as the ATFL - three consecutive seasons of 62 games or more, with that franchise. You get the player as they were during that time period with the franchise. Probably a post-playoff, summertime exercise.