Markieff Morris

[LukasBMW]

JD,

Please know that this is not personal in any way. I just think Kieff has a limited ceiling. I'll bet reputation points that he never makes an all star team.

If you can trade him (+ a few others) for any of the top 10 guys in PER below, you do it. These guys below are all perennial all star players.

1. Kevin Durant -30.45
2. LeBron James - 29.17
3. Kevin Love - 27.90
4. Anthony Davis - 27.22
5. Chris Paul - 26.13
6. DeMarcus Cousins - 25.87
7. Brook Lopez - 25.61
8. Carmelo Anthony - 25.04
9. Blake Griffin - 24.01
10. Russell Westbrook - 23.84

Of the post players, Love is the most likely to be moved.

[MrMiyagi]

Do I like Kevin Love? Yes.
Would I trade Kieff for Kevin Love? Yes, depending on the deal.
Should we be looking to trade Kieff? No. He's been consistently improving and he's cheap for another year.

Plus you've got to consider we have 3 draft picks. I'm sure there are going to be some desperate teams come draft night. Our phones will be ringing a lot. We have a good GM who has made 2 good picks and 3 great trades (it is three right? Scola to Indy, Gortat to Wash, Duds to Clippers) so whatever we decide to do with those picks seems like a good option. I say hold on to the guys we got and see what those picks turn into.

[JDLAW]

1.
Ok, since you focused on one and the only logically sturdy statement in my post i am only going to defend that.

It really boils down to me giving great value to Kirilenko while you view him as an average player.

Healthy Kirilenko in 2013 was a star player to me . Corey Brewer to me is a bench SF.

Without looking into other issues: Last year Love did not play but 18 games and the T-Wolves won 31 games. This year Love is healthy and while downgrading their roster, they are still on pace to win 40 games.

2.
2010 and 2011 Timberwolves had atrocious records because their rosters were atrocious.
http://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/MIN/2011.html
http://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/MIN/2012.html

3.Love is poor defender. I have grown cold on him also. I agree completely with you there.

You know, we agree on #3 - I am a bit cold on him right now. I'll respectfully disagree on 1. You like Kirilinko, but in my opinion, he has never been an NBA star player and was not a difference maker on that team. He is probably a little better than Brewer even though stats are similar.

I'll split the difference on the rosters with you. The 10-11 roster was poor. but the 11-12 was not poor. This year they have upgraded their shooting guard position, but they remain a losing team. There is something missing here regardless of who the small forward is or who some of the other players are. They have gone through a ton of them and nothing changes.

I'll give you my theory of why this is, and mind you it is only a theory. Love is in a position head and shoulders above the all the players on the T-Wolves. He absolutely dominates his team, but his game has enough flaws that he cannot always dominate opponents. His teammates are deferential and the front office, in obtaining players is deferential, "How does he fit with Love." Love has not pressure to change his game or work to fill in the holes in it.

I saw similar results for the early 80s (pre-Olajuwan) Rockets. Moses Malone and company. It had a couple of good NBA players (Reid and Murphy) and some journeymen (Dunleavy, etc) , but they were about a 500 team. In the 80-81 season they made it to the finals with an 40-42 regular season record. Moses was the absolute star, putting up numbers that were better than anything Love ever put up. The next year, regular season record slightly better, Moses put up even better numbers (31, 15), but they lost in the first round. He dominated his team but he could not always dominate the opponent and his teammates deferred to him too much.

The point is these players are often difficult to build around because teammates often become deferential when they should not be and the front office builds around one player instead of a core of players. When Moses left for the 76ers in '82, the Sixers had a excellent team in place and Moses topped it off for a championship. No one on the Sixers, especially Dr. J, Toney or Cheeks was deferential to Moses.

[JDLAW]

JD,

Please know that this is not personal in any way. I just think Kieff has a limited ceiling. I'll bet reputation points that he never makes an all star team.

If you can trade him (+ a few others) for any of the top 10 guys in PER below, you do it. These guys below are all perennial all star players.

1. Kevin Durant -30.45
2. LeBron James - 29.17
3. Kevin Love - 27.90
4. Anthony Davis - 27.22
5. Chris Paul - 26.13
6. DeMarcus Cousins - 25.87
7. Brook Lopez - 25.61
8. Carmelo Anthony - 25.04
9. Blake Griffin - 24.01
10. Russell Westbrook - 23.84

Of the post players, Love is the most likely to be moved.

No need to bet your reputation points - I have plenty of my own. I do not know what his ceiling is, but it is has proven considerably higher than many have postulated here in the past. He is young enough that I can safely say there is still more to go. Whether he makes an all-star team or not is irrelevant. Dragic did not make the all star team and no one can reasonably argue that he did not deserve it.

The argument that you'd trade him for any on this list is pointless. Of course, I'd trade him for LeBron James or Durant, but that transaction is not available and likely never will be. There is enough additional value for any of these players (assuming they are signed for more than a year) that you'd trade Morris straight up for them. To actually pull off a trade the Suns would have to put up more and maybe a lot more in some cases. My point is these players are not available straight up for Morris are and likely never will be. The question is what do you have to give up in addition? Morris has reached a status where he will be of interest to other teams and you do not trade him for mediocre draft choices or "nice" players or include him as filler or "sell high on him."

As for Love, I have said all I want to about him. Would i trade Morris straight up for him? Probably. Would I throw in a lot more than Markeiff - not likely and I do not trade Morris for him straight up unless there are a few more years on Love's contract.