Ten games left

Post #1 » by **jbk1234** » Wed Mar 26, 2014 4:18 pm

Cavs' win total is?

I say 35.

CLEbland · Post #2 » by **CLEbland** » Wed Mar 26, 2014 5:08 pm

33.

Posted this in the Dion thread on GB but did you guys realize Dion has a higher FG% than Kyrie this season? And 3pt % is nearly identical.... crazy.

Post #3 » by **TheOUTLAW** » Wed Mar 26, 2014 5:19 pm

just imagine how good Dion would be if he got foul calls

SmoothKobra · Post #4 » by **SmoothKobra** » Wed Mar 26, 2014 6:25 pm

I hope Dion starts and has a breakout year next season. If we play uptempo, this could be a super fun team. The Bynum experiment did us in this year, but I'd love to see Waiters and Kyrie P&R teams to death next season, and get out on the break.

Okada · Post #5 » by **Okada** » Wed Mar 26, 2014 8:48 pm

CLEbland wrote:33.

Posted this in the Dion thread on GB but did you guys realize Dion has a higher FG% than Kyrie this season? And 3pt % is nearly identical.... crazy.

If you remove the first 20 games of the season, Kyrie's been shooting 45/40/91. All 3 percentages significantly higher than Dion. That 45/40/91 is a lot more in line with what we'd expect from Kyrie, who is a lot better than Dion whether you admit it or not.

SmoothKobra · Post #6 » by **SmoothKobra** » Wed Mar 26, 2014 9:18 pm

Okada wrote:
CLEbland wrote:33.

Posted this in the Dion thread on GB but did you guys realize Dion has a higher FG% than Kyrie this season? And 3pt % is nearly identical.... crazy.

If you remove the first 20 games of the season, Kyrie's been shooting 45/40/91. All 3 percentages significantly higher than Dion. That 45/40/91 is a lot more in line with what we'd expect from Kyrie, who is a lot better than Dion whether you admit it or not.

Kyrie is better than Dion...but I don't know if the gap is THAT large to be honest. Kyrie has gotten every chance to succeed since he's been here. Dion, rightly or wrongly, has been on a much shorter leash. Kyrie wasn't getting benched at the beginning of the year for not playing defense. Dion was.

Post #7 » by **jbk1234** » Wed Mar 26, 2014 9:45 pm

Okada wrote:
CLEbland wrote:33.

Posted this in the Dion thread on GB but did you guys realize Dion has a higher FG% than Kyrie this season? And 3pt % is nearly identical.... crazy.

If you remove the first 20 games of the season, Kyrie's been shooting 45/40/91. All 3 percentages significantly higher than Dion. That 45/40/91 is a lot more in line with what we'd expect from Kyrie, who is a lot better than Dion whether you admit it or not.

Wait so we are removing bad games from Kyrie's numbers but not Dion's? Look at Dion's split since the all star break. I'm all for keeping both of them and having them figure it out, but it's not just Kyrie's shooting that has been a problem this year. His defense, his tendency to go one on three, his ball movement, and his attitude were all a problem. That seemed to change after Grant got fired but lets not pretend Kyrie just shot the ball poorly at the beginning of the season and that was the problem.

Dupp · Post #8 » by **Dupp** » Wed Mar 26, 2014 10:24 pm

TheOUTLAW wrote:just imagine how good Dion would be if he got foul calls

And he could shoot free throws.... He gets less respect from the refs than anyone but his foul shooting is pathetic. He better work on it in the off season.

Okada · Post #9 » by **Okada** » Thu Mar 27, 2014 12:18 am

jbk1234 wrote:
Okada wrote:
CLEbland wrote:33.

Posted this in the Dion thread on GB but did you guys realize Dion has a higher FG% than Kyrie this season? And 3pt % is nearly identical.... crazy.

If you remove the first 20 games of the season, Kyrie's been shooting 45/40/91. All 3 percentages significantly higher than Dion. That 45/40/91 is a lot more in line with what we'd expect from Kyrie, who is a lot better than Dion whether you admit it or not.

Wait so we are removing bad games from Kyrie's numbers but not Dion's? Look at Dion's split since the all star break. I'm all for keeping both of them and having them figure it out, but it's not just Kyrie's shooting that has been a problem this year. His defense, his tendency to go one on three, his ball movement, and his attitude were all a problem. That seemed to change after Grant got fired but lets not pretend Kyrie just shot the ball poorly at the beginning of the season and that was the problem.

Literally nothing you said here makes sense as a response to exactly what I said. The comment I responded to was only about how their shooting percentages were about the same. I pointed out that since his shooting slump, Kyrie has been significantly better and more in line with what he was the last two years.

kiwibrindle · Post #10 » by **kiwibrindle** » Thu Mar 27, 2014 12:55 pm

I'm okay with this discussion about Dion and Kyrie. Kyrie is clearly better. I hope Dion and TT are offered up in a big deal in the offseason for a top pick or for a leader with a few years on their contract that's not too old. I hope Dion goes off on this push to the playoffs so his value sky's. I think drafting him on a team with Kyrie was a Grant mistake but he's an asset that should be used in the offseason for sure. If he plays great he's worth more. Who know's what you could get for him.

Post #11 » by **jbk1234** » Thu Mar 27, 2014 5:09 pm

kiwibrindle wrote:I'm okay with this discussion about Dion and Kyrie. Kyrie is clearly better. I hope Dion and TT are offered up in a big deal in the offseason for a top pick or for a leader with a few years on their contract that's not too old. I hope Dion goes off on this push to the playoffs so his value sky's. I think drafting him on a team with Kyrie was a Grant mistake but he's an asset that should be used in the offseason for sure. If he plays great he's worth more. Who know's what you could get for him.

SMH. We don't even know if Kyrie wants to stay or has his head right yet and you are going to trade Dion? This would a typical Cleveland move. We get a rental for the best shooting guard the team has had since Austin Carr all because he doesn't fit with Dion in theory (although its not really clear to me what type of 2 guard fits with Kyrie or if Kyrie fits next to a 2 guard at all). Then we hope Kyrie is happy and willing to stay in Cleveland after that. We also hope he turns out to be worth the max-extension with the Rose bonus that will ham string the organization. And if that turns out not be the case and the Cavs end up trading him because he wants out or decides to mope for another season, we are starting at ground zero again and hoping to draft someone who turns out to be as good as Dion.

Okada · Post #12 » by **Okada** » Thu Mar 27, 2014 6:47 pm

jbk1234 wrote:SMH. We don't even know if Kyrie wants to stay or has his head right yet and you are going to trade Dion? This would a typical Cleveland move. We get a rental for the best shooting guard the team has had since Austin Carr all because he doesn't fit with Dion in theory (although its not really clear to me what type of 2 guard fits with Kyrie or if Kyrie fits next to a 2 guard at all). Then we hope Kyrie is happy and willing to stay in Cleveland after that. We also hope he turns out to be worth the max-extension with the Rose bonus that will ham string the organization. And if that turns out not be the case and the Cavs end up trading him because he wants out or decides to mope for another season, we are starting at ground zero again and hoping to draft someone who turns out to be as good as Dion.

The ignorance is crippling...

1. If Kyrie has his head right? We have just as much, if not more basis, to say the same of Dion, albeit for different reasons.

2. A typical Cleveland move would be trading the 22 year old 2 time All Star and keeping Dion. You're just writing Bill Simmons' jokes for him at this point.

3. Him being the best shooting guard since Austin Carr is an irrelevant piece of trivia that has no place in this discussion.

4. The topic of Kyrie staying has been covered a thousand times already. You obviously have no idea of how these things work. Kyrie almost has to stay by the contract/monetary circumstances and it would take absolute, unbearable, unprecedented mayhem for him to not sign an extension under the current rules. This idea was dispelled a long time ago.

5. Ok, so you're signing a 2 time All Star who just turned 22 years old to a big extension. Yeah, he had a down year. Get over it. He's still an extremely valuable commodity that any team would give up that money for. It's just a fact.

6. Him wanting out or moping again, has no logical place in the issue. There have been a few weak indications of him wanting out at best, and the process of him getting out loses him a ton of money. Do you understand how these contracts work? And wow, whining about him "moping," really? Because Dion is the beacon of light when it comes to our flawed interpretations of body language.

7. The last part of your post literally made me laugh out loud and doesn't merit any sort of response. Oh my, I haven't seen many fans on RealGM that are so terribly ridiculous.

Post #13 » by **jbk1234** » Thu Mar 27, 2014 7:21 pm

Okada wrote:
jbk1234 wrote:SMH. We don't even know if Kyrie wants to stay or has his head right yet and you are going to trade Dion? This would a typical Cleveland move. We get a rental for the best shooting guard the team has had since Austin Carr all because he doesn't fit with Dion in theory (although its not really clear to me what type of 2 guard fits with Kyrie or if Kyrie fits next to a 2 guard at all). Then we hope Kyrie is happy and willing to stay in Cleveland after that. We also hope he turns out to be worth the max-extension with the Rose bonus that will ham string the organization. And if that turns out not be the case and the Cavs end up trading him because he wants out or decides to mope for another season, we are starting at ground zero again and hoping to draft someone who turns out to be as good as Dion.

The ignorance is crippling...

1. If Kyrie has his head right? We have just as much, if not more basis, to say the same of Dion, albeit for different reasons.

2. A typical Cleveland move would be trading the 22 year old 2 time All Star and keeping Dion. You're just writing Bill Simmons' jokes for him at this point.

3. Him being the best shooting guard since Austin Carr is an irrelevant piece of trivia that has no place in this discussion.

4. The topic of Kyrie staying has been covered a thousand times already. You obviously have no idea of how these things work. Kyrie almost has to stay by the contract/monetary circumstances and it would take absolute, unbearable, unprecedented mayhem for him to not sign an extension under the current rules. This idea was dispelled a long time ago.

5. Ok, so you're signing a 2 time All Star who just turned 22 years old to a big extension. Yeah, he had a down year. Get over it. He's still an extremely valuable commodity that any team would give up that money for. It's just a fact.

6. Him wanting out or moping again, has no logical place in the issue. There have been a few weak indications of him wanting out at best, and the process of him getting out loses him a ton of money. Do you understand how these contracts work? And wow, whining about him "moping," really? Because Dion is the beacon of light when it comes to our flawed interpretations of body language.

7. The last part of your post literally made me laugh out loud and doesn't merit any sort of response. Oh my, I haven't seen many fans on RealGM that are so terribly ridiculous.

As I've said repeatedly, I don't want to trade either of them. But I am strongly against trading Dion because of my completely justified concerns about Kyrie.

First off, spare me the sanctimony about the all star appearances. He plays in the East and had the good fortune of making the team when Rose and/or Rondo were hurt. Given his performance for the first half of this season, he was also fortunate that fans vote because any critical analysis would have had him behind Lowry. There was a 20-30 game stretch where every opposing PG played above their season average against Kyrie. It didn't end there either. With Kyrie leading the way, this team's starters quit on their coach against NY and LAL in the second half of the season. It was so blatant that the GM got fired in mid-season. If that doesn't concern you, I would suggest that you guilty of blind loyalty.

Could the Cavs essentially force Kyrie's hand and require him to sign a max length extension? Yes they probably could. Does that make it a good idea if the doesn't want to be here? No. Neither of us knows what his thoughts are and we won't know until they sit down and negotiate an extension. I'd rather have Waiters on the team when that discussion takes place than find out the hard way that we bet on the wrong horse.

Dupp · Post #14 » by **Dupp** » Thu Mar 27, 2014 8:31 pm

So jarred jack has actually been ok since Kyrie has been out. But 3 combo guards is at least one to many. He's got to go in order to develop Kyrie and dion together

Okada · Post #15 » by **Okada** » Thu Mar 27, 2014 10:44 pm

jbk1234 wrote:
Okada wrote:
jbk1234 wrote:SMH. We don't even know if Kyrie wants to stay or has his head right yet and you are going to trade Dion? This would a typical Cleveland move. We get a rental for the best shooting guard the team has had since Austin Carr all because he doesn't fit with Dion in theory (although its not really clear to me what type of 2 guard fits with Kyrie or if Kyrie fits next to a 2 guard at all). Then we hope Kyrie is happy and willing to stay in Cleveland after that. We also hope he turns out to be worth the max-extension with the Rose bonus that will ham string the organization. And if that turns out not be the case and the Cavs end up trading him because he wants out or decides to mope for another season, we are starting at ground zero again and hoping to draft someone who turns out to be as good as Dion.

The ignorance is crippling...

1. If Kyrie has his head right? We have just as much, if not more basis, to say the same of Dion, albeit for different reasons.

2. A typical Cleveland move would be trading the 22 year old 2 time All Star and keeping Dion. You're just writing Bill Simmons' jokes for him at this point.

3. Him being the best shooting guard since Austin Carr is an irrelevant piece of trivia that has no place in this discussion.

4. The topic of Kyrie staying has been covered a thousand times already. You obviously have no idea of how these things work. Kyrie almost has to stay by the contract/monetary circumstances and it would take absolute, unbearable, unprecedented mayhem for him to not sign an extension under the current rules. This idea was dispelled a long time ago.

5. Ok, so you're signing a 2 time All Star who just turned 22 years old to a big extension. Yeah, he had a down year. Get over it. He's still an extremely valuable commodity that any team would give up that money for. It's just a fact.

6. Him wanting out or moping again, has no logical place in the issue. There have been a few weak indications of him wanting out at best, and the process of him getting out loses him a ton of money. Do you understand how these contracts work? And wow, whining about him "moping," really? Because Dion is the beacon of light when it comes to our flawed interpretations of body language.

7. The last part of your post literally made me laugh out loud and doesn't merit any sort of response. Oh my, I haven't seen many fans on RealGM that are so terribly ridiculous.

As I've said repeatedly, I don't want to trade either of them. But I am strongly against trading Dion because of my completely justified concerns about Kyrie.

First off, spare me the sanctimony about the all star appearances. He plays in the East and had the good fortune of making the team when Rose and/or Rondo were hurt. Given his performance for the first half of this season, he was also fortunate that fans vote because any critical analysis would have had him behind Lowry. There was a 20-30 game stretch where every opposing PG played above their season average against Kyrie. It didn't end there either. With Kyrie leading the way, this team's starters quit on their coach against NY and LAL in the second half of the season. It was so blatant that the GM got fired in mid-season. If that doesn't concern you, I would suggest that you guilty of blind loyalty.

Could the Cavs essentially force Kyrie's hand and require him to sign a max length extension? Yes they probably could. Does that make it a good idea if the doesn't want to be here? No. Neither of us knows what his thoughts are and we won't know until they sit down and negotiate an extension. I'd rather have Waiters on the team when that discussion takes place than find out the hard way that we bet on the wrong horse.

There is no sensible response to your thoughts besides laughter. Congratulations on joining that 'delusional, uninformed Cavs fan' group that I'm sure you repeatedly accost.

Dupp · Post #16 » by **Dupp** » Thu Mar 27, 2014 11:32 pm

There is no sensible response because you can't come up with one.

It's funny you keep calling other poster ignorant and delusional and uninformed and names like this. Maybe at some point when people continue to constantly disagree with you you might realize its not them its me.

Okada · Post #17 » by **Okada** » Fri Mar 28, 2014 2:04 am

Dupp wrote:There is no sensible response because you can't come up with one.

It's funny you keep calling other poster ignorant and delusional and uninformed and names like this. Maybe at some point when people continue to constantly disagree with you you might realize its not them its me.

So because I think another opinion is laughable, that means I'm automatically wrong? Thanks for the pseudo-wisdom.

Post #18 » by **jbk1234** » Fri Mar 28, 2014 2:18 am

Okada wrote:
Dupp wrote:There is no sensible response because you can't come up with one.

It's funny you keep calling other poster ignorant and delusional and uninformed and names like this. Maybe at some point when people continue to constantly disagree with you you might realize its not them its me.

So because I think another opinion is laughable, that means I'm automatically wrong? Thanks for the pseudo-wisdom.

You aren't automatically wrong. You can be insulting and off putting and still be correct. But in this case, you happen to be wrong as well.

kiwibrindle · Post #19 » by **kiwibrindle** » Fri Mar 28, 2014 2:20 am

I did not say trade Dion for zero. I said get better and use your assets. If trading Dion got you more value at a position your weak at, its a move in the right direction. We have to get better. If that means trading from strength, so be it as long as the final product is better the current. You can't win with just combo guards and weak power forwards

Post #20 » by **jbk1234** » Fri Mar 28, 2014 2:48 am

kiwibrindle wrote:I did not say trade Dion for zero. I said get better and use your assets. If trading Dion got you more value at a position your weak at, its a move in the right direction. We have to get better. If that means trading from strength, so be it as long as the final product is better the current. You can't win with just combo guards and weak power forwards

That would have to be one heck of a big man to justify the trade. Like Kevin Love having signed an extension. Then you still have the issue of is everything a okay with Kyrie after you make the trade. I guess I remain completely unconvinced that trading Dion guarantees a happy ending with Irving. I'm also completely unconvinced that trading Dion will in any way make this team better.